Edwards: Dean, Kerry Will Drag in South

[rodbarnett]

Wednesday, January 21, 2004

NASHUA, N.H. — John Edwards (search) suggested Wednesday that presidential rivals Howard Dean and John Kerry would be a drag at the top of the Democratic ticket in key Southern congressional races, and said he could help "everywhere in the country."

"I know I can strengthen our position because I've won in a tough place, a really tough place," said Edwards, who won his North Carolina Senate seat in 1998 by defeating a Republican incumbent.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EDWARDS?SITE=FLROC&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[BayCityProgressive]

1. I don't really buy this whole arguement

that it takes a southerner to win the south or a northerner to win the north. I think some states are trending Dem and some Rep and they are going to vote that way regardless. I think the media just pushes this idea because the more reactionary Dems are in the South.

[mitchtv]

2. let me get this straight

if I don't want Edwards, I should vote for him anyway,' cause a bunch of people in the south might like him?He's alright, I suppose ,and I will vote for him if nominated,but he's a little conservative for me.Too bad people from that end of the country need a homeboy. A MA boy will suit me.

[surfermaw]

15. Days when one thought there would never be a another southern president

I am in my seventies, and remember the day of high school in the south , thinking there would never be another southern president...Well the time has come when we have had several southern or of the west as democrat candidates and president...So don't come down on us southerners so hard.... Most likely it will be either Edwards or Kerry..just hang in there they are Americans you know..Any one of the democrats, is better than having Bush. Time about is fair play.

[GinaMaria]

26. The correct word is democratic

Democratic candidates and president. Democrat is a noun and does not modify another noun (candidates). Democratic is an adjective and does modify the noun candidate.

This is a simple language trick the pukes have been trying for a while. Please, don't fall into it or promote it as correct usage of the word.

[October]

63. And I voted for a good many of them!!

I like Edwards this time around, but I will vote for whomever gets the nominations from the Democratic party no matter the region from which he hails!

Northerners take a bit of a lickin' around here at DU, and sometimes we feel the need to defend our heritage/region too. But we tend to vote regardless of North/South heritage!

Fair play indeed.

[Born Free]

31. "let me get this straight"

" I don't want Edwards, I should vote for him anyway,' cause a bunch of people in the south might like him?"

Furthermore, the media will tell you which candidate you should pick and when you should pick that candidate, and you better not disappoint them or else there will be an onslaught of negative attack reports against your candidate. Much like 2000, the media is taking it's cue from the press releases by the RNC and all the news is regurgitating the RNC lines over and over again. Ironically, many posts I see on DU seem more like mimicking what the media wants democrats to think as opposed to thinking as individuals. To hell with the RNC corporate controlled media, let democrats decide who they think is best for America and let democrats support that candidate come November. It's not for democrats to follow the lead of the RNC but to take that lead and lead America back on track.

[onehandle]

3. He's somewhat right...

...imo, as I type this in the heart of the South.

Clark, however, won't.

[cprise]

4. Didn't take him long to play THAT card

Give us a little more of that veiled bigotry, please.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

46. But Yankee Bigotry is A-OK...

A Northerner will vote for anyone, but we have to present a Southern candidate to appeal to the Southern vote because they won't vote for Yankees?

[EXE619K]

5. Sorry pal....

I'm from the north.

I feel that my "northern heritage" has been seriously ignored at the White House.

[Stuckinthebush]

6. Take it from this Southerner...

Edwards can't win in the South.

The Dems can't win in the South. It has been devoured by the Christian Right and the NRA. Edwards won't carry NC even.

Look at what happened to Gore. The TN voters were proud to reject Gore because he was a liberal! They loved it when Bush won Tennessee. We need to forget the South. We still need to campaign hard down here if nothing else than to make the GOP spend money in the South, but we won't win.

We need to focus on a strategy that does not involve the South.

[dolstein]

12. "Look what happened to Gore" -- OK, let's look

Gore came within a few hundred votes of winning Florida. If it hadn't been for some questionable decisions by local election officials, Gore would likely have won.

Gore lost Missouri, Tennessee and Arkansas by a narrow margin, and had a fairly strong showing in Virginia. If Nader hadn't forced Gore to campaign extensively in states like Oregon, Minnesota and Wisconsin, he might have carried a few of these states.

Sorry, but the Democrats CAN win in the South. They won't sweep it, but than can pick up a state or two -- and that's all we need. And frankly, the Democrast have had an easier time winning in the South than they have in states like Arizona and Colorado.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. Gore lost his own state, dolstein

That is unheard of in politics. It didn't have anything to do with Gore, either - it had to do with the GOPs total domination of the South via its churches.

By the way, when Southerners think of the South, we don't include Florida. I'll give you Florida. I think that the Dem can pull it out given no ballot monkey business.

But, there were narrow margins in Arkansas. Missouri is not considered the South either. Edwards will have a hard time taking his state, but even if he gets NC, he will not get LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, TN, KY, or AK. This group of states is the Southern bloc I am referring to.

[dolstein]

21. Sorry, but I just have to chuckle

The fact is that Al Gore ran stronger in the South than any northern candidate the Democratic Party could have come up with in 2000. Gore's narrow loss in Tennessee and in a few other Southern states is a testament to Gore's weakness as a candidate and Nader's abilty to force Gore to divert time and resources to states outside the South that could otherwise be taken for granted. It's hardly a rationale -- as you seem to imply -- for abandoning the South entirely.

The fact is that if the Democrats want to win in 2004, they have to be able to cut into the red state base of George Bush. And an appealing Southern candidate can do that. Just as imporant -- and this is something the anti-Southern strategy brigade around here ingores -- a Southern candidate can compete just as effectively outside the South as a northern candidate. There are no trade-offs. Bill Clinton not only did well in the South, but he did well in the Northeast, the Midwest, and the West. So will Edwards -- or Clark, for that matter. But Dean and Kerry will lose in the South, and lose badly, and neither shows any real potential for winning the red states outside the South.

[Stuckinthebush]

23. I agree with some of this and disagree with some of this

I agree that Dean and Kerry will lose badly in the South. But, dolstein, Edwards will lose the South as well. Perhaps not as badly, but he will lose nonetheless. A strategy that does not rely on the South is necessary for the Dems. If we get one Southern state, great! It is highly unlikely that any Dem will win any Southern state (I'm not including FL).

[dolstein]

24. I disagree

I think Edwards or Clark could win a few states in the South. The won't sweep the region, but then they don't need to. And frankly, I have more comfidence in Edwards' and Clarks' abilities to win a handful of Southern states (and that includes Florida, which neither Dean nor Kerry could carry by the way) than I have in Dean or Kerry carrying states like Arizona and Ohio.

[0rganism]

41. I'm curious -- why are you writing off Louisiana so soon?

Louisianans just elected a female Democratic senator and (against all my expectations) a female Democratic governor. What would disqualify a Democrat, even one like Edwards, from taking Louisiana?

Right now, I see LA as being in play, advantage bush of course, but not a lost cause by any means.

[surfermaw]

52. Gore won the election & I think Florida would be considered a S.State

Yes he won and had the election taken from him, and for all of you who don't remember, the ticket has always had to be balanced, and how many years did the south accept a Yankee for the democratic candidate for president gladly...the republicans set the south in play with things like abortion, gun control , religion...to get their votes...work to inform and correct the problem....The best I remember the last democrat from the south did a great job, so why are you crying now..keep it up and you will see Bush back in the White House for 4 more years

[truthisfreedom]

7. drudge is suggesting he's getting some dirt on Edwards in coming days

from his site:

RESULTS OF A DRUDGE REPORT INVESTIGATION INTO THE MAN OF MYSTERY, DEM HOPEFUL JOHN EDWARDS, WILL BE APPEARING IN THE COMING DAYS IN THIS SPACE... DEVELOPING..

slime, slime, slime.

[Toot]

8. I'm so tired of the message that we have to cater to a certain region of

the country, and I live in the south. I live in Ga and don't see Edwards winning this state or any Dem for that matter. I feel it's the same for quite a few other states too. So, my point is that we should nominate whomever we agree with most, not where they come from, and let the chips fall where they may.

[jburton]

9. Should Bush* be concerned about winning the North?

n/t

[Johnyawl]

10. He's dreaming

He won't even carry North Carolina, if he's the nominee. I think that both Bob Graham and Wes Clark as VP will do us more good in the south than Edwards would at the top of the ticket.

[dolstein]

13. I know who's dreaming, and it's not Edwards

Sorry, but adding Bob Graham or Wes Clark as VP on a ticket that's headed by a Northernor won't help us one damn bit.

[surfermaw]

17. Read your history book

we southerners in the past have almost worshiped some yankees Presidents, such as Roosevelt , Kennedy and there are more ,this old mind cant bring them up at this minute, I was born in the early thirties and remember the great depression and then the great man Roosevelt.. Young people read the Harding,Coolidge and Hoover years, we are in the same situation,with Bush using Harding & Coolidge policies especially tax policies...just think we may be running JFK &JRE agains George Hover Bush..so be thankful you have a man who can handle enough southern states to win and election. Edwards won his Senate Seat in and almost impossible state of North Carolina...Jesse Helms country.

[Ernesto]

20. Right on surfermaw

Good to get an experienced view of national politics....... It ain't over till it's over.. In November!

[dolstein]

25. I've read my history -- you might want to brush up on 1964

That was the year the civil rights act was passed. Since then, no Democratic presidential candidate from outside the South has won a majority of the popular vote in ANY Southern state. Not Humphrey. Not McGovern. Not Mondale. Not Dukakis. Indeed, only once in the past forty years has a Democratic presidential candidate from outside the South carried a Southern state -- that was in 1968, when Humphrey received a plurality of the vote in Texas.

FDR won in the South because back then the South was dominated by Dixiecrats who hated Republicans even more than they hated Northern Democrats. And FDR never rocked the boat on civil rights. JFK was the last Democrat to benefit from the Dixiecrat political machine. 1964 changed all that.

Sorry, but history is on my side, not yours.

[pluche39]

11. Remember Edwards bashing Dean

in the debate about the confederate flag guys in pick-up trucks--saying "he (Edwards) didn't like it when people like Dean tell us southerners about race? " I'm not sure about the quote but its close enough? My point is how come its ok for northerners to vote for a southerner, but it dosen't work the other way around?
Maybe its time for progressives and moderates in the south to come to the aid of their country, and vote for a yankee. Or is this too much to ask .

[GringoTex]

16. The quote's not close enough

Edwards didn't like Dean's ignorant, simple-minded use of the Confederate flag as a branding iron.

[Oreegone]

22. Sorry I have to reply to that BS

Since you obviously didn't read the quote, instead read the commentators verbage here it is.

I intend to talk about race during this election in the South. The Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us, and I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2090775/

And I suggest that you read the article.

[GringoTex]

28. Dean knew he was wrong

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," Dean said Friday in a telephone interview from New Hampshire. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."

There aren't many guys in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flags in the back. That's a simple fact. And the few who are sure as hell aren't voting Democratic. So the fact that Dean feels like he has to recruit them to appeal to a "broad cross section of Democrats" is just stupid.

Of course, Dean isn't stupid and really doesn't feel that way. Who he really wants to appeal to are lower class/rural whites in the South. Which is fine. Except he branded them with the Confederate Flag.

[MisterC2003]

32. Dems can win in the South -- if they focus on the economy

As a Georgia native, I say, don't worry about getting a candidate from this or that state or region. Focus on the message, and make that message the economy. For the last year or so it has been so bad down here economically that the bad news is cutting through the warm fog of beer, pot and stupidity that generally characterizes "thought" among too many Southerners.

"Least we had two nickels to rub together when that bastard Clinton wuz President," they'll say. "I'm tarred of livin in this car, let's get somebody in what knows how to get the dollars rollin' in for folks who ain't rich."

[mitchtv]

27. yes , I'm afraid it is too much to ask.

it took the USSC to step in on their horrific sex laws only last year. There are not enough progressives to shake a stick at. We would do better to concentrate on AZ, NV and NM. Maybe I should refuse to vote unless Boxer, or Feinstein is VP nominee.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi pluche39!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[NashVegas]

18. Edwards Is Marking His Territory Like a Dog

No big deal, we've got to expect it.

[JaneQPublic]

19. Edwards went negative on his rivals? So much for being Mr. Positive (nt)

[bspence]

29. It pisses me off...

...that people in the south feel that if things don't go their way, then they'll bring the government to its knees. Other parts of the country are pretty large, too.

It pisses me off even more that Edwards is right. We need a few of those southern states. We didn't win hardly any last time, and I don't want to blow it this time.

I like Edwards, I just don't like this "we need to win the south". I've lived down south, and they're pretty much as backwards as the stereotypes make them out to be. I wish they DID leave the union, that way we'd bury them economically, and they'd be like a new poor country to the south. Look at how great the Republican leadership in Alabama and Mississippi have helped. They're wallowing in poverty.

"Those damn Alabama illegals are taking our jobs!!"

[dad]

33. .

Why even bother posting something as ignorant and hateful as this?

[QC]

35. I was thinking the same thing.

But that kind of crap is posted a lot around here, typically by people who love to preen themselves on how wonderfully liberal they are.

[mumon]

34. So he's basically saying all Southerners are bigots?

And so why should moi have to vote for a Southerner????

I'm really, really sick of this argument- which only exists to shove the nation furhter down the low-wage right-wing road.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

37. It's a pity that your very first post

would be something so stupid and hateful and pointless. (The same can also be said for calling people "tards.")

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

39. First tards, now pansies.

Is there anyone you haven't gotten around to stereotyping and insulting yet? If you keep that up, your stay here will be a very brief one.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[styersc]

45. Things a little bit slow

at Free Republic this morning?

[Guaranteed]

43. I totally agree with you.

I'm sick of these bastards. Can we PLEASE elect a president that isn't from the South? Just once? Thanks.

[GringoTex]

44. Keep 'em Southern

Non-South Presidents:
Nixon
Ford
Reagan
Bush 1
Bush 2

South Presidents:
LBJ
Carter
Clinton

I think we better stick to presidents from the South

[October]

49. Conveniently leaving some out?

FDR and JFK... non-southerners, and most progressive.

GWB is southern. He hates us up here in the NE. Speaks like a Texan and avoids us like the Plague. And you know it.

[QC]

51. Let's see...born in New Haven to a New England old money family.

Educated at Andover, Yale, and Harvard. "Summered" in Maine.

And he doesn't talk like any Texan I've ever known, and I've known quite a few.

While you can justifiably blame Texas for Bush's political career, he's no more a Southerner than Dick Armey or Newt Gingrich.

[October]

59. Don't worry..I'll not blame Texas for his political career

I think it's amusing how no one wants to claim him!

[GringoTex]

54. I was referring to the past 40 years

GWB was born, raised and educated in the Northeast. He doesn't talk like a Texan. We're mystified as to his accent.

The truth remains that all non-Southern Presidents of the past 40 years have been miserable reactionary blowhards. May the South rise again!

[October]

58. Now the 40-year stipulation?

Well gwb sure doesn't speak like a Yank.

Born here, and left asap to be raised in Midland and Houston, Texas. And he's proud of his southern heritage.

He might have gone to school up here in his teens (a lot of 'prominent' families from the South seem to prefer our schools), but he hates us. Obviously a lot of you do.

South shall rise again? To do what, exactly? Look at the southerners who've been running Congress. You can't even vote for anyone from a different geographical area.

Why don't you take all this negative energy you have toward Northerners and use to it try to convince your neighbors how bad Bush* is -- most of them voted for him.

[GringoTex]

60. "but he hates us. Obviously a lot of you do."

Are you people for real?

Hey man, your "I'm a victim" sign is on crooked.

[QC]

61. Speaking of negative energy....

you might consider directing yours elsewhere.

Your enemy is not liberal Southerners who hang out at DU.

Nor is it the 40%+ in even places like Mississippi and South Carolina who vote Democratic.

If you want to do battle with people who think Bush and Delay are the greatest thing since fellatio, this is not the site where you will find them. We all agree that these people are loathsome. That's why those of us who are both Southern and liberal get tired of being tarred with that brush.

As for how Shrub talks, he doesn't sound like any Texan I ever met. Instead, he sounds like a preppy trying to imitate John Wayne. (Who was, incidentally, born Marion Morrison in Iowa.) And Shrub has no more "Southern heritage" than any other carpetbagger.

[October]

62. You could do the same

Read my other posts before you pass judgment.

I have nothing against Southerners. Nothing. I just don't care for the style of some around here who have to put down Northerners just to boost their Southern heritage. It works both ways. Did you respond to the negative posts about Northerners too, or just my post?

There is a ton of prejudice against people from the North at DU. Look around. It's not right either way. What about everyone trying to "tar" the Northerners with Bush -- that's ok?

Lots of name-calling and nasty language directed my way. Interesting and revealing.

[JoFerret]

57. People think?

...you free use of that term in this context makes me think that you may have bought into that idea too. Plus the notion that somehow pansy is bad. More care needed.

[Carolina]

47. I am sooo torn

I spent 40 years in a liberal part of the country and am now in GOP land (political Siberia) through marriage. That said, the south is NOT all bad, it is just full of congenital repugs who have been brainwashed by theology (think Southern Baptists) and vote repug just because "we always have."

I like to challenge them on economics, on the fact that the rise of southern repugs is rooted in racism since the shift from DEM to GOP happened as a result of the 1964 Civil Rights Act (so, no they have NOT always voted repug). I like to point out the inequities in the tax code and the fact that we shouldn't merely cut taxes, we should examine who pays and who doesn't ... The list goes on and sometimes I win some conversions.

Anyway, I have my moments of loathing being here but there are more and more transplants like myself as well as pockets of real progressives, disenchanted military folks and a smattering of anti-Bush repugs. I don't think we can write off the south -- perhaps my state (SC) along with Alabama and Mississippi -- but we should aim for a few and make Bush fight and spend $$$$ in a region he thinks he can take for granted.

So to my fellow libs out there, don't exile all of us. But you're are right on one issue: many of these guys have yet to get over the war of "northern aggression." They said the south will rise again and lo and behold look at the ascendancy of southern repugs at the national level and what it has wrought. We have got to win AGAIN!

[Guaranteed]

42. Is this considered negative campaigning? nt

[worldgonekrazy]

55. No, no, no, of course not! Edwards is "positive", remember?!

;)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. The military is thought of in very good terms in the South...

...so Kerry and/or Clark, if selected, would at least break even. Based on the NeoCon candidate's military "history", and the fact that the media is now beginning to report those stories, the South may be in play much more than some may believe. Add to that the fact that manufacturing jobs are being sent overseas, and the economy in the South is suffering greatly, and the Democratic Party has a real opportunity to not only break even in the South, but actually do quite well.

IMHO, unless Dean chooses a VP candidate that will appeal to Southern voters, he will not do well in the South.

[loudsue]

50. Edwards is my Senator....I worked on his Senate campaign

And I feel the same about him as many of my fellow North Carolinians feel:

Edwards has NOT been responsive as a Senator to either his constituents in general NOR to those who helped him with his Senate campaign. He's an opportunist, plain and simple. Use 'em, schmooze 'em, then lose 'em.

Edwards didn't rally around and throw his organization behind Bowles during the Senate race that repuke Elizabeth Dole won in 2002. Edwards could have helped, but he made VERY little effort on Bowles' behalf. So we ended up with a repuke. To me, that was practically treason. I was really angry at Edwards at the time, as I was working on Bowles campaign. It was as if Edwards had no clue how critical it was to elect Dems to the Senate.

Edwards good showing in the primaries is going to be due to the (republican sponsored) DLC trainers and contributors....he's for sale.

It is simple arrogance that he is running for president as his SECOND campaign ever.

All the Dems I know personally, outside of the mainstream N.C. Dem political party, are NOT supporting Edwards. (You know...the neighbors that are dems.)

Having said that, however....if Edwards DOES win the Dem nomination, I will vote for him...and so will all the other Dems here in N.C. that don't think he's so great.

I think Wes Clark would stand a better chance in this area, and a lot of people are talking up Kerry in a good way. The fact that he's a "yankee" means NOTHING to the people I've talked to. Most people around here (the neighbors) don't care for Dean....at all!

Anyway...that's the word on this southern street.

:kick:

[Upfront]

53. Kerrys Gun View

Will kill him in the south.

[JoFerret]

56. Kerry's doing fine

in the last poll I saw. With Sharpton strong and Edwards with a small lead. And all this before the real debate starts there.