Iran initiated 9/11 attacks

[54anickel]

DOH! - N or Q Shrub's illiteracy must be to blame

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=3902

HAMBURG – The Iranian intelligence service was the initiator of the 11 September 2001 suicide-jet attacks on New York and Washington, according to a defector quoted Thursday by German police at the Hamburg terrorist trial.

One Federal Crime Office interrogator said he had taken down a statement in Berlin on Monday from a former Iranian agent who insisted that Iran had employed Saudi radical Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network to carry out the attacks.

The defector could not appear himself in court because he had been promised anonymity, two police officers told the trial of accused plotter Abdel-Ghani Mzoudi, a Moroccan student who lived in Hamburg and was friends with three of the four suicide pilots.

[marie123]

1. well then

we must bomb them right away! Quick let us send our troops over there!
Oh wait we are out of troops, no problem it is getting drafty

yes folks Marie is having a nervous break down

[Longhorn79]

32. If Iran is responsible for 9-11, they deserve to be bombed.

I don't so much believe the article, but anybody who had anything to do with 9-11 should be napalmed. I was in the trade center in '93 the day it was bombed, and it was scary as hell. I urge everybody not to forget the terror caused by those people in the rush to boot Bush.

[DS1]

34. OK, who would you like to bomb?

Cafe? Supermarket? Intelligence HQ? Fuel Depot? How about some sand?

Surely they need more bombing than say, Iraq, but who's going to do the bombing? We're just about all out.

[maggrwaggr]

39. You sound very ready to believe this!

Would you care to elaborate on why?

[Longhorn79]

48. I don't believe it

I'm not ready to believe that "report" at all, I was just speculating. If it became apparent (to everybody, not just the republicans) that Iran including Khomeini and his government were instrumental in 9-11, then they should be removed through whatever means necessary. Of course a surgical strike or commandos a la Hollywood would be optimal, minimizing any innocent casualties, but presidents from both parties have bombed cities for ultimately good causes. (WW2) Let me stress that I have no reason to believe Iran had anything to do with it, and wouldn't support anything like that unless there was ironclad evidence.

I'm new on this forum obviously, and didn't expect the kind of stupidity hurled at me by 'leesa' and others. All I expect from myself is intellectual honesty, but it seems some don't hold themselves to that high standard. I won't respond to anybody who childishly calls me names.

[Occulus]

43. bomb their ass and take their gas, hmmmm?

And where have I head that gem before, I wonder?

Oh, sure, let's bomb an entire country chock full of people who had nothing at all to do with anything here in the US and maybe, hopefully get the very, very few by comparison who really were involved in the process. Get them, that is, unless they flee in the middle of the night and run off somewhere.

They do NOT deserve to be bombed. They deserve arrest and a public trial. They will then likely be hanged, and I'd say they- the people who were involved, and only them, are at fault and deserve punishment- not their acquaintances or neighbors or children.

Let me put it a better way: propose a solution not involving the certain deaths of innocent civilians. For extra credit, do so in a way that will gain, not lose, support for the actions we take.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lostnfound]

35. Welcome to DU! Most of us have our moments.

[bushisanidiot]

2. Whoopsie Daisy!! I guess the wars in Afghanistand and Iraq were mistakes!

so sorry to all the dead thousands. Our bad!

[loudnclear]

29. No, it means we invade Iran next!

Meanwhile Gadaffi is laughing all the way to the bank. Proving once again, once a terrorist NOT always a terrorist. There may be hope for Bush yet.

[Caution]

3. sounds like a total crackpot

with a grudge against the Iranian government to me. I find it very difficult to believe that the Iranians would knowingly attempt something like this, particularly with an independent operator like Bin Laden.

[dawgman]

4. Iran you're the next contestant on the P N A C!!!!!!

The game show about empire building and country destroying. See which company can profit the most in the invasion and subsequent "rebuilding" of Iran and find out who will get the oil!!!!!! Next on America's favorite conspiracy at work.

[lovedems]

6. Yep, this administration won't be happy until all the middle east

and their oil is under their thumb. Wait for more news on Syria, the connection is coming.

[lostnfound]

36. OMG. LOL, twisted though. n/t

[hang a left]

5. I guess next we will hear that it was actually

Syria and Iran who conspired together. Hello Mr. Sharon, we have a little problem we need your help with.....

[LeftHander]

7. If this is validated

This is the proof that the CIA was informed that an attack was going to occur on Sept. 10 or 11. And that 9/11 was LIHOP operation. Even without going into specifics of what type of attack or target it would have been enough to lead to others in the chain. We need to see that 5 page letter. Read the entire article carefully...

[Oilwellian]

8. And think of it...

Iran is thrilled that we got rid of Saddam. What's with Bush anyway? Pulling out of Saudi was something Osama wanted. Do you get the feeling we're helping our enemies? Where have I heard that one before?

This guy's testimony would be considered heresay in an american court though.

[joeunderdog]

20. What's hard to believe about Shrub helping the Bin Ladens?

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html

[reprobate]

45. Pulling out of Saudi was something Osama wanted.

Would you believe that pulling out of SA was return for Osama performing as instructed re: 9/11 attacks. I'm beyond LIHOP and fast approaching MIHOP.

[htuttle]

9. This story is changing as we speak

There's another spin on it, in this thread in LBN:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=325353

And it sounds a lot more like Iran *knew* about the attacks, not planned them. In addition, this witness (who sounds much less like a crackpot in the other story) states that not only did Iran warn the US about the attacks ahead of time (like 15 or so other countries did as well), but that this agent basically contacted the US himself and personally warned them something was going to happen Sept. 10.

I bet this version of the story is a bit of counterspin -- to make him look either crazy, or to make it seem like Iran was behind it (gives them motive to lie about Bush, doncha know...).

I'll trust that he's not entirely crazy, if German prosecutors are calling him as a witness in a fairly important trial, but I'll do a bit more reading about what he's saying.

Here's an interesting bit from this article:

The defector also declared that immediately after fleeing Iran, he had approached CIA station officers at the U.S. embassy in Azerbaijan, a former Soviet republic adjoining Iran, to warn them attacks were planned.

"He wrote a five-page letter stating that something would happen on 10 or 11 September without precisely delineating what it could be," said the police witness.

The man claimed he had been passing information to the CIA since 1992 and had been promised USD 1.2 million in payment, but had never received the promised money after his defection. He had therefore resolved to sell information to the Germans or French.

[papau]

10. BBC report below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3419457.stm

9/11 suspect 'helped with codes'

A German court has heard evidence that a Moroccan man, Abdelghani Mzoudi, helped the 11 September hijackers by sending coded information to middlemen.

The information comes from someone claiming to be a former Iranian agent, whose identity is being kept secret. <snip>

The new witness claims Mr Mzoudi was responsible for "drawing up and sending information to middlemen, because he was knowledgeable with codes," according to a transcript of his interview given to the court.

He also claims to have tried to warn the United States before September 2001 that "something would happen". <snip>

[54anickel]

11. Thanks htuttle. Such a tangled web. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Does that mean we invaded the wrong country?

Excuse me, but shouldn't someone be impeached over this?

[FredScuttle]

15. But, but, but....

Torture Chambers!
Rape Rooms!
Mass Graves!
Killing Fields!
Gassed His Own People!
A Liberated Iraq Makes The World A Safer Place!
(lather, rinse, repeat)

[paulthompson]

13. contradictions

I posted another story about this case, from the Wall Street Journal. There's a thread on that here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=325353

The Wall Street Journal seems to know more about this than anybody, because they have been given a copy of his 30 pages of testimony:

"Still, the use of his testimony in court indicates that German prosecutors believe they can make Mr. Zakeri a credible witness to the three-judge panel that is trying the case. In addition, his 30 pages of testimony, which were reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, are extensive and in some places detailed."

Nowhere in there does it mention Iranian involvement in 9/11, though it does mention Iranian involvement in other actions with al-Qaeda, especially a bombing in Saudi Arabia in 1996. Here's another snippet from the WSJ:

Mr. Zakeri was being questioned by German police this month on an unrelated case, when he volunteered information about Mr. Mzoudi. German police then questioned him Monday for more than six hours, during which Mr. Zakeri told police he worked for Iranian intelligence from 1984 to 2001.

Mr. Zakeri told German police his department worked closely with the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, a partnership that led to the first joint operation between Iran's intelligence service and al Qaeda -- the 1996 bombing of a U.S. military barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.

Mr. Zakeri said that led to a series of meetings and joint operations. According to Mr. Zakeri, al Qaeda was interested in using secret Iranian agents outside of Iran to assist in its operations.

---

That's very, very different from saying Iran was behind 9/11!

These two stories also differ in that in the Wall Street Journal version, this guy goes to the CIA in July 2001 and is rebuffed, after asking for $1.2 million for his info. Whereas this DPA article claims he was working with the CIA since 1992 and that he never got his promised $1.2 million payment.

[bobthedrummer]

40. In any event the hijackers were training at Wally Hilliard's Huffman

Aviation in Florida, where there are stories about FBI intimidation of witnesses like Atta's American girlfriend.
I live in Green Bay, former home of Wally Hilliard, PNACer.
http://www.madcowprod.com/

[jmcgowanjm]

14. This is so BS/I knew this was about German mystery witness

How convenient. Getting ready to throw
out only operative trial/conviction
and ... wait, here it comes. . .
We've got more Stuff!

Meanwhile, Odigo, Vreeland, Elementary Kid
saying those towers won't be there next week,
Silverstein says pull WTC7, well,
forget it.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_smoking_gun.html

[Beam Me Up]

18. speaking of Vreeland...

Whatever happened to the dude who, purportedly, not only predicted in writing that 9/11 was going to happen but was also carrying documentation that came to him while in Russia that showed IRAQ -- yes, IRAQ -- was centrally implicated in 9.11??

[hang a left]

22. Vreeland has been missing for quite some time.

If he actually had info that implicated Iraq, he would have been found. He has probably been offed.

[Minstrel Boy]

38. Update relating to Vreeland in Toronto Star last month, titled

"Post-9/11, this doesn't seem all that weird"

...

The apparent collapse of the Fonseca case also had the effect of destroying any credibility Vreeland may have had with regard to his more intriguing allegations about Sept. 11 and the death of Bastien, the Moscow embassy worker.

Until January, 2002. That's when Quebec coroner Line Duchesne concluded that Bastien, described as an information systems handler, had indeed been poisoned — probably by someone who slipped a concentrated anti-schizophrenic drug into his drink in a Moscow bar.

Vreeland's credibility suddenly shot up.

But eight months later, while out on bail awaiting an extradition hearing, he just disappeared. At the time, Slansky told the court he had gone to Vreeland's apartment to pick him up but found it ransacked, with key evidence related to his client's 9/11 claims missing.

Did Vreeland skip town? Slansky argued no. He said he believed his client had been "killed, kidnapped or harmed" because he had evidence that the U.S. government knew ahead of time about the Sept. 11 attacks.
http://tinyurl.com/zay1

[fob]

27. Elementary kid?

That's a new tidbit, to me at least. Is that at WRH.com too?

[mhr]

16. But What About The Taliban and Afganistan - Why Did We Bomb Them?

eom

[8 ball]

33. 8 ball sez:

REPLY HAZY: ASK AGAIN LATER

[54anickel]

17. Well, I does seem to be getting a lot of press. I posted it because it

floated to the top of the World stories in Google. Now it's being quoted all over the place.

http://news.google.com/news?num=30&hl=en&edition=us&q=cluster:www%2ereuters%2ecom%2fnewsArticle%2ejhtml%3ftype%3dworldNews%26storyID%3d4175372

[jmcgowanjm]

19. you did good, 54anickel, post it, spin it, debase it, trash it

NSA to other Praetorian Guards:
We're getting less and less mileage
out of these stories.

PG: Yes, and we're having to burn our undercover
journalists to do it.

NSA: Oh well, What's for lunch?

[MGKrebs]

21. Multiple choice question time!

A. The guy is whacked.
B. He's telling the truth.
C. This is a setup to give us an excuse to attack Iran.

[LeftHander]

23. No! It implicates LIHOP!!

Doesn't anyone see that!!!

The CIA knew. It is likely more than just they knew...

[MGKrebs]

25. That would be "B".

I'm leaning towards "C" at the moment.

[0007]

26. Same here -

It is amazing how fast the SS put together all the 911 persons involved.

And glossed over this piece of information.

[Fovea]

31. Answer

even if it is A or B, it is C.

[Merlin]

24. This is PNAC's device to twist the real news: We Were Warned

The real news coming out of this is that the guy who is the tipster told US intelligence of the plot on 9/10, but his message wasn't translated in time. There's another LBN story on this.

[rman]

28. why would not listen to all the whistleblowers at home,

but do listen to one foreign defector?

[paulthompson]

30. more info - I think this guy is full of it

Doing a bit more Googling, I think this guy is lying his ass off.

In his recent claims, he does not tie Iran directly with 9/11. However he does make this claim, according to the LA Times:

The Iranian witness also said he had seen Ziad Samir Jarrah, the Lebanese hijacker believed to have flown the United Airlines jet that crashed in Pennsylvania, at a Hezbollah training camp near Tehran in 1997, the sources said. Hezbollah and its operational chief, Imad Mughniyah, have long been supported by Iran.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-terror22jan22,1,6714857.story?coll=la-headlines-world

That in and of itself sounds extremely dubious. But this isn't the first time he's come forth with his story. There's an article from June 2003 in the right wing, Moonie owned Washington Times (their magazine, Insight):

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2003/06/24/World/Defector.Alleges.Iranian.Involvement.In.Sept.11.Attacks-438491.shtml

In that, he goes totally overboard in envisioning Iran being behind the attacks:

The talks with al-Zawahiri went so well that bin Laden dispatched his eldest son, Saad bin Laden, on a return trip to Iran exactly four months and seven days before Sept. 11, according to Zakeri. The younger bin Laden was flown from the Tayebat border crossing with Afghanistan to the Damavand air base outside Tehran. "He came with three other people," Zakeri says. "They were not introduced to me and spoke Arabic amongst themselves. But Saad spoke good English." Zakeri says he stayed in Iran for three weeks but held just one official meeting, which took place at 3 a.m. at Khomeini's former meeting house in Jamaran, on the slopes of the Elburz Mountains in Tehran's northern suburbs. Present were all five members of the Leadership Council, Zakeri says: Khameini, former president Hashemi Rafsanjani and ayatollahs Mohammad Yazdi, Mahdavi Kani and Ali Meshkini.

It was at that meeting, on May 4, 2001, that final plans for the attack on the U.S. mainland were made, Zakeri believes. Shortly afterward, he recalls seeing a striking exhibit in the entry hall to the main headquarters of the MOIS in Tehran. "It was a model of the World Trade Center, the White House, the Pentagon and Camp David," he says. "From the ceiling, a missile was suspended, as if to strike the buildings. 'Death to America' was written on its side in Arabic, not Farsi."

---

There's a lot more like that in the Insight story.

The fact that his recent claims apparently completely fail to mention this stuff says to me this guy is a complete BS artist.

The Insight article also says this:

A U.S. intelligence official categorically denied that Zakeri had delivered such a warning. "We have no record that he made such a claim. He is a fabricator of monumental proportion."

---

For once, I actually agree with one of these denials.

[rooboy]

37. Get your exclusive picture of the "defector" here...

[maggrwaggr]

41. Next year's headline - "France Initiated 9/11 Attacks!"

Milk it, baby, milk it!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. No, wait!!...Syria initiated 911!!....

...er...maybe it was Libya!...North Korea?...France?...Germany?...China?...Russia????

[0rganism]

47. No...hold on... sources now say Venezuela initiated 911!!

Quick, Harold, get the bombs!

Wait, no... hold on... Brazil! Brazil is the terrorist state we must invade!

Errm... New intelligence coming in...says... we're goin' to New Zealand, folks!

:scared:

[Redleg]

44. Here we go again....

... next will be Syria, right?