Jurors find no discrimination in flight attendant's rhyme use

[Shrek]

Excerpt from USA Today article:

KANSAS CITY, Kan. (AP) — A Southwest Airline flight attendant's variation on a rhyme with a racist history did not discriminate against two black passengers, a federal jury decided.

The U.S. District Court jury of seven white men and one white woman deliberated less than an hour Wednesday before reaching its verdict.

Grace Fuller, 49, and her sister Louise Sawyer, 46, both of suburban Kansas City, filed the suit over comments flight attendant Jennifer Cundiff made after they boarded a Southwest flight to return from a Las Vegas vacation three years ago next month.

As the two were trying to find seats on the crowded plane, Cundiff said over the intercom, "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; pick a seat, we gotta go."

Sawyer and Fuller said the rhyme immediately struck them as a reference to an older, racist version in which the first line is followed by the words "catch a n——r by the toe." They testified at the two-day trial that they were embarrassed, humiliated and frustrated. Fuller said she suffered a small seizure on the flight home, which said was triggered by the remark. Later at home, she said she had a grand mal seizure and was bedridden for three days.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. whatever

thats how i feel about it

[demon67]

2. No idea

Eenie-meenie-meine-mo is rasict? In my life, I have never heard the racist version of that song referenced in the article. Have I been living in a bubble?

[Maeve]

4. You grew up hearing "tiger", right?

So did I--our folks would have killed us if we'd used the "n" version, but it was around.
A seizure caused by a reference that was mostly in the mind of the hearer? Sorry. Sounds more like a need for therapy.

[slackmaster]

12. I never heard the "N" version until this story first came out

No, I did not fall off a turnip truck. I grew up in Southern California.

[shanti]

17. yep

boomer here...i remember riding in the family car with the 'rents and my sibs when i was about 6, and singing this little ditty THE WRONG WAY. dad screeched on the brakes, snatched me up, and told me if i EVER said that again, i wouldn't be sitting for a week.

i never said it again.

[soleft]

7. Sadly it's true, as I recently discovered

For whatever reason, I was doing the version I'd heard all my life, catch a tiger by the toe - in front of my aunt who was raised in the south, and now lives in Texas, and she giggled and said, you know, when we were kids we used to say - and started to say the rascist version and my mother cut her off, so apparently it was something that was said.

[FredScuttle]

9. Referenced in Pulp Fiction

The scene in the basement where Zed is choosing between Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames.

[Hoosier Democrat]

3. What a load of crap!!!

The fact that the jury even was out for more than a nano-second is the surprising part.

"Your honor, we find the defendants innocent and find the plaintiffs to be a couple of losers!"

[republicansareevil]

5. the racist version is the original version

You have to be of a certain age to know that, but for people of that age, it's not at all obscure.

[Nashyra]

8. As a flight attendant with another airline

that is part of what we call unproffessional. The sisters were wrong but in my opinion Southwest goes to far with the wise cracks, in an emergency I want someone who I can trust. Take it for what it is worth. I know alot of airline personal that will not put their children or advise their friends not to let minors fly alone with SWA. I'm old enough to remember the "N" version of the jingle and can see where it would be offensive but definetly not lawsuit material. They should have written a letter and complained to higher ups.

[slackmaster]

14. I've always liked SouthWest's sense of humor

Like the flight attendant who said "Anyone caught tampering with a lavatory smoke detector will be asked to de-plane immediately", or the pilot who woke up a planeload of sleeping passengers on a redeye flight by loudly announcing "Welcome to Honolulu!" as we were landing in San Jose.

[republicansareevil]

21. They DID write a letter.

They didn't sue until later when they felt their concerns were being brushed off.

[boredofeducation]

23. So you can't trust this lady cause she has a little humor?

So you want this lady to be fired cause she is a little creative? Iam sure if their was a serious emergency she would follow procedure as anyone else would do, but this was not an emergency, she could have just said, "Sit down now". But that probably would have offended these two passengers some how. What she said was not offensive to anyone or anything. Besides, you don't have the right to not be offended, if we were so worreid about offending anyone we would be either an colony with England or speaking French, because we seriously offened them when this country was first created....

[republicansareevil]

24. That's not what Nashyra said at all.

Did you even read the post? Why put words in another poster's mouth?

[boredofeducation]

27. yes, but did you?

"The sisters were wrong but in my opinion Southwest goes to far with the wise cracks, in an emergency I want someone who I can trust. "

Read the last few words slowly and aloud, cause the original poster stated they want someone they can trust. That is what I read.

Writting letters to higher ups only lead to people being fired or disciplined, which in my opinion is unessessary. If you read the original article you would realize what wack-jobs these two people are...

[Stuckinthebush]

45. That's one of the best things about Southwest

They have a sense of humor. I fly them often on business, and have never felt that their levity interfered with their safety duties. I have seen them get stern fast if safety is a problem.

Frankly, the stuffy atmosphere on other airlines turns off many business travelers. At least that is what I hear from my conversations with frequent flyers.

This was an example of overly sensitive people looking for something to get worked up over. The attendant should definitely keep his or her sense of humor. 99.9% of passengers get it.

[saigon68]

58. I remember the N----- Version along with a lot of other slurs

To equate this with the version to Catch A N---er by the toe*** is crazy-- and the jury promptly awarded nothing.

The loser (the 2 Plaintiffs) also get to pay some hefty and I mean hefty court costs.

[ET Awful]

6. Eenie meeni minie moe has caused some miserable times in my life

Not being able to be "it", having to be the first one to jump in and see how deep the water was, etc.

BUT NEVER, NEVER has it been known to cause seizures ;)

[Maine-i-acs]

10. Looking for a payoff from the airline.

I'll wager there was no medical testimony available about her having the seizure, much less about it being related to the 'taunt'.

Sounds like the woman who says she was trampled at Wal-mart's Christmas sale...

I grew up hearing both versions, but never dared say the offensive one aloud.

[webDude]

11. The N-word version was the ONLY one that I heard used until I was in my

late teens. I am 46 years old, grew up in Houston, Texas, and am a whitey. Believe me, if it was me on that plane, I would definitely have been offended, especially if I was black. As soon as I heard the words, "einnie, meenie..." I recalled instantly the N-word used, as would anyone from my group that I grew up with.

You GOT to know the history to understand the situation, as with anything.

[Skittles]

18. I agree

but blaming her siezures on these poorly picked words? Going too far there.

[republicansareevil]

20. I don't know...

Can stress cause seizures in rare cases? What if you have some pre-existing condition? I'm not a doctor, so I don't know, but the article doesn't say whether or not there was any medical testimony about this.

[Johnyawl]

25. I learned the N-word version orginally also...

I'm 53, white and raised in Arizona. So what? By the time I was 11, and going to school with black kids, we'd all switched to the "...tiger by the toe..." version. Even the black kids sang that. Yes, the rhyme has racist beginnings, but to claim now that hearing the rhyme is somehow traumatizing is political correctness run amok.

[Catherine Vincent]

35. I grew up using ",,,monkey by the toe..."

This was also deragatory to blacks but I didn't know it at the time.

[sendero]

53. A legitimate question might be....

... how old was the flight attendant and which version was she familiar with?

In any event, if you have medical problems and take offense at something I say - as far as I'm concerned that is your problem.

Had the flight attendant use racist language, such as the N word itself, then it would be a different story.

And lastly, I wonder what kind of response they expected when they wrote SW? Firing of the flight attendant? If they did, she would have most certainly sued them, and possibly won.

I can't stand racists but I also have a problem with people who cry wolf and in so doing make legitimate claims of racist treatment harder to take seriously.

[boredofeducation]

13. This has to have been the dumbest lawsuit ever!

"Fuller said she suffered a small seizure on the flight home, which said was triggered by the remark. Later at home, she said she had a grand mal seizure and was bedridden for three days. "

I can't believe a lawyer wouldever take this case or believe this story. Whatever happened to "sticks and stones, may break my bones, but words would never hurt me" ? Are people too sensitive these days?

[fob]

22. What if the two women were singing "You dropped a bomb on me" by

the Gap Band? How do you think they would be treated? How fast would the plane have detoured to Gitmo? What if the same above scenario were repeated with two white ladies? Same reaction?

I always knew it as 'tiger' too. But it was as recent as 2 years ago that I learned the phrase "gypped" was a slur at gypsies! Who knew? I do think that there is a certain sensitivity to words and phrases that is not appreciated and/or understood by those who are not the targets.

[boredofeducation]

26. ha

First off, it is kinda stupid to say/yell "fire" or "bomb" in an airport or public place. In fact it has been ruled that you can be arrested for it way before 9-11. It's was called disturbing the peace. But anyways, this did not happan, what happened was the Flight attendent created her own jingle and somehow these two morons got affended by it, even though it contains no words that anyone can possibley be offended by. That is the whole point. Why the heck do people have to walk on eggshells, trying to be so P.C. these days is just rediculous. Again words have never killed anyone, don't like it, ignore it! World would be so much easier if people didn't get their collective panties in a bunch over asinine non-issues such as this.

[fob]

37. Your genius is showing.

You "answered" a question that wasn't asked. I didn't ask for you to assume they simply shouted "Bomb!" and fire was no part of it at all. I asked what you think would happen if they were singing a song that had the line You dropped a bomb on me, and whether you feel the attendent would react to that? Would that reaction be justified? It would be just words no one anyone could be offended by, should she react? What if the women were middle eastern and singing that song? If you were on that plane what would your reaction be? Nervous? Calm, cool and collected?

I agree that pc language can be rediculous, my post was an attempt for you to think about how simple words can cause *extreme* reactions, by posing the scenario I did.

BTW, you say "words have never killed anyone", are you sure?

How about;
gwb* - "Bring 'em on"
gwb* - "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa"

Do ANY of those words "offend" you? None of them offend me either, it's the entirety of the message and the intent of the speaker in the context of the situation in which they are presented.


Cheers!

fob

[Buffler]

29. Loser pays

A loser pays system would have either prevented such a friviolus suit or slapped the plantiffs with the justice they deserve for filing such a friviolus suit.

[leftofthedial]

15. Oh please--any lawyers on DU?

I want to sue the two passengers for humiliation and embarassment at being in the same species with two such as they, who are either so grossly oversensitive as to require institutionalization or are so cynical as to require incarceration.

I think I feel a seizure coming on.

Any of you attorneys who want to run with this, I think we could make a bundle.

[bluestateguy]

16. Political correctness gone wild

There is no constitutional right to not be offended (a message that campus conservatives who dislike liberal professors should realize). The jury has spoken and their verdict must be respected. This lady needs to get a life.

[Born_a_Democrat]

19. There is precedent for having episodes of the type the woman spoke of

Example:

I once sat on a bus and willed myself a menstrual cycle
--Dr. Evil

[Buffler]

28. Loser pays

To bad we don't have a loser pays system.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Insurance carriers don't want loser pays. They lose more often than not.

As to the merits of the case. We are being given a tiny frame. While I may or may not be skeptical of the health claims of the plaintiffs, I am glad the case was heard. At the time it was first filed, a number of DU'ers indicated they were brought up hearing the racist version. If SOME consciousness were raised by the matter being litigated then I really feel the trial is worth the costs.

[Enraged_Ape]

30. Oh, for Pete's sake

"Catch a tiger by the toe," is how I always said it. My GRANDMA used to do this rhyme with me.

Is our economy so bad that people will do ANYTHING for a buck?

[Buffler]

34. Economy, no

but the lawsuit lottery is very attractive to many. I firmly believe that these women thought that SW would give them a check to just go away.

I am glad that SW didnt.

[Catherine Vincent]

31. Imo, this was stretching it a bit.

The flight attendant probably didn't even know that the rhyme was associated with old racist version. But even if she did, there was nothing wrong with it. As long as she didn't say the n word, then what was the problem?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

36. And who cares about the lawn jockeys? As long as thet've been repainted...

What about the Confederate flag? After all, it's just a flag now isn't it? Hell, most people probably only know about the flag from it being painted on the top of the car in the Dukes of Hazzard!

Hell, why not erect a few burning crosses? After all, no-one means it the way it USED to be meant now, do they?

People are far to easily offended! PC really has gone wild!

That "nursery rhyme" was an instrument of racism, and was every bit as symbolic as the "Golliwog", "Lawn Jockey", Confederate Flag or burning cross. Just because YOU don't see it the way these women saw it, doesn't make THEM the ones at fault.

[northzax]

43. and don't get me started on Wagner

why, just the other day, I heard a store playing "Ride of the Valkyries" and immediately called the ADL to file a lawsuit.

Should we ban the brothers grimm since their work was used to damn witches?

Can I remember my Kipling, or is that a tool of slavery and oppression as well?

can anyone point me to the entymology of this nursery rhyme? did the offensive version predate the "tiger" one (and should Tiger Woods file complaints about that one?) or was the rascist version a variation on the theme?

Look, the point is that (and I can't believe I'm agreeing with freepers here) we live in a messy, loud, abrasive society. in a melting pot (salad bowl, whatever) most things are going to prove offensive to someone. There needs to be a line somewhere, and, in this case, the jury determined that paraphrasing this particular nursery rhyme was not over the line. that's why we have juries, right?

[Ramsey]

32. Good verdict

That is one of the more frivolous lawsuits I have ever heard of. An upsetting comment cannot possibly have caused a grand mal seizure.

[Fla_Dem]

48. If you want frivolous

Try looking up all the lawsuits DirecTV has filed in the last 2 years.

[Kbick]

38. Was Edwards their lawyer....

This is the type of case that made Edwards a millionaire.

[Syrinx]

44. Got anything to back up your false claim?

[Kbick]

52. Edwards is a Personal Injury Lawyer...

This was a Personal injury lawsuit.

There for: this is the kind of lawsuit that made Edwards a millionaire

[northzax]

56. George Bush fought a war against a dictator

George Washington fought a war against a dictator.

ergo, George Bush = George Washington.

hmm.

[Kbick]

61. President = President

my point exactly.

But that leads to the argument of degrees:

Washington was a better president (>) than Bush

Edwards is a better personal injury lawyer (>) than the lawyer of this case.


I am just busting your balls, but this will be Rove's arguments against Edwards. I live in NC and voted for Edwards. On a weekly basis,I read newspaper editorials smearing Edwards for this very reason.

[Stuckinthebush]

46. I doubt it...but better this than the way W. made his millions

Don't ya think?

[Kbick]

54. until you are in a car wreck

I guess until you are in a car wreck. Then the guys lawyer convinces him to sue you for his Chiropractic bill, pain and suffering, vehicle damage, and loss of income.

Bush inherited his wealth. Edwards leeched his wealth.

[Stuckinthebush]

55. No...Bush inherited his daddy's name

and his daddy's friends who were strong armed into giving W. money for failed venture after failed venture. Just keep that good ol boy network going, you know?

Edwards, on the other hand, worked his ass off to become a damn good lawyer. I'm sure he had some questionable cases, but then again, I'm sure he had some very worthy cases. Either way, he did his job as a lawyer, defended his clients, and won a number of judgments. Yes, he did make a load of money this way. That is the way lawyers can make money. You may not like it - or you may have had a bad experience with lawyers, but they are there for a purpose. I have know people who have had legitimate claims against a business or product that hurt them due to negligence. The lawyers helped them by making the jury and/or judge see the negligence of the business or product in question. Due to this negligence, these people were hurt badly enough to never be able to have the same quality of life as they used to. The settlements/judgments enabled them to have some level of quality of life without worry. Because the lawyers did kick ass jobs, they got to take a percentage of the settlement/judgment based on pre-trial negotiations.

Get off of lawyers. I'm glad we have them. I'll back a lawyer any day over a lazy rich boy.

[Kbick]

57. Give me a break.

Even the lawyer that would take a case like this one...

Give me a break.

[Stuckinthebush]

59. Show me where Edwards took a case like this one

And then show me the many cases that Edwards took that had a great deal of merit.

And then tell me if you'd rather have Bush over Edwards simply because Edwards is a *gasp* lawyer.

[Fla_Dem]

60. Lawyers may have a purpose

But the amount they charge their clients is an outrage.

[bobbyboucher]

63. Don't forget to include the "In my opinion"

part of your reply. Thanks. I might have to lump you in with that other poster above. Are you sure you know enough about what you are talking to comment intelligently?

[bobbyboucher]

62. I dare say that you might not

know what you are talking about. And not just because you typed "there for" when you meant "therefore".

Would you kindly give an example of a case that Edwards took that resembles this one? Or are you just parroting out the typical "trial lawyer" drivel that the right-wing indoctrinates into the pods? For the record, I am not calling you a pod, just curious about the origin of your point of view.

I do recollect hearing something about a case that Edwards took where a pool pump manufacturer hid documents relating to the fact that their pumps come on too hard and pose a threat to someone that might be near it. This came out during the trial, a case that Edwards took on behalf of a family whose young daughter was underwater in a pool, sitting on the drain, when the pump came on and sucked her insides out and killed her dead.

Now if that happened to your little girl wouldn't you want some recourse? Or is your only example that above one where you referred to the car accident scenario?

Give me something besides the usual, undocumented, hysterical anti-trial lawyer rhetoric.

[republicansareevil]

39. I don't like all the assumptions people are making on this thread.

I think we should all keep a few things in mind. First, we are not privy to all the testimony and evidence that the jury got to hear. We don't know whether there was any medical testimony as to whether the woman had a seizure or whether extreme stress can bring on seizures. We don't know if there was any more to the case. The media is very bad about presenting information relating to legal matters. That is why cases are tried in courtrooms and not in newspapers and the "court of public opinion."

Second, frivolous lawsuits are already prohibited, and we have measures in place to prevent them. A lawyer who brings a frivolous suit can be fined, and many suits are not even heard because the judge dismisses them. The judge did not dismiss this case so (s)he obviously felt it was not frivolous. And the lawyer would not have taken the case if (s)he didn't feel it was at least a worthwhile gamble. The lawyer who doesn't win is out time and labor and costs and gets nothing out of it.

Third, the women DID write to the airline first to complain. They did not sue until AFTER they felt the airline was not taking them seriously.

And finally, simply because many of us never knew about the racist version of the rhyme doesn't mean that version didn't exist. The version did indeed exist and was the original version. It was the version people of a certain age grew up hearing and the one that pops into their heads when they hear "eenie meenie minie moe." I believe the employee who claims she wasn't familiar with the version, but that doesn't mean the plaintiffs were just overly sensitive to be offended.

I won't second-guess the jury's decision on this case. They are the ones who had all the information and based on the *limited* information I have, I think I would probably have gone the same way. But I am sick of cases like these being used to bash lawyers, lawsuits, and the legal system. Just because you read one story in a newspaper doesn't mean you have all the facts of a case.

[Buffler]

40. Ha!

And the lawyer would not have taken the case if (s)he didn't feel it was at least a worthwhile gamble.

Ya, and no lawyer would take a case from a women lying about losing a lottery ticket.

Third, the women DID write to the airline first to complain. They did not sue until AFTER they felt the airline was not taking them seriously.

As I stated above, I strongly believe that the women were hoping that SW would just cut them a check to go away.

[republicansareevil]

42. Read what I wrote.

I never said or implied that lawyers never take frivolous cases. My point was that there are risks and penalties for doing so.

Also, a lawyer cannot knowingly allow a client to commit perjury, but the woman in the lottery case might have been telling the truth for all that lawyer knew.

[Lars39]

41. I just noticed it was an all-white jury.

Were the claims taken seriously?

[Stuckinthebush]

47. I can't imagine any jury taking these claims seriously

n/t

[Lars39]

49. There's epilepsy in my husband's family.

They have been advised not to 'overdo it' and to keep their stress level down. Could be more to this story. :shrug:

[Buffler]

50. I can

the OJ jury!

[truthisfreedom]

51. time for a new sensitivity training manual chapter

rhymes we don't use...

triggered a stroke? hmm... we gotta learn to relax a little here in the good ol' USA. seems we're wound a little tight lately.