French Parliament Divided Over Hijab Ban

[DuctapeFatwa]

Two weeks before the French Parliament officially begins debate on a ban on hijab and other religious apparels in schools, opposition to the move is rising in an unexpected twist in the divided legislature, according press reports Thursday, January 22.

Although some MPs had declared that they could not fathom the logic of banning the religious signs, which the French President believed would strengthen secularism, the opposition is now appearing among Jacques Chirac’s own supporters.

Claude Goasguen, deputy leader for Chirac's UMP party in parliament, said he was considering abstaining from the vote on the ban. ..Christine Boutin which said the move would feed sectarianism. Further to the dismay of Chirac in the anguished debate, the list of opponents from his party is growing, along with members of other parties and ethnic communities originally standing in the NO camp....Socialist parliamentary leader Jean-Marc Ayrault said the government's position “is not clear at all”.

The education Minister said Wednesday said the ban would also include beards and bandannas – worn by Muslims – and allow the turbans of Sikhs...The division in the parliament is expected to continue unabated..prompted Pope John Paul to make a barbed reference last week to "some European countries" that endangered religious freedom, a rare criticism that provoked an equally unusual rebuke from the French official who first proposed the ban....prompted Pope John Paul to make a barbed reference last week to "some European countries" that endangered religious freedom...Villepin told cabinet colleagues Thursday during a government meeting that the law had put Paris in “a very delicate situation on the international scene," ..Villepin’s office later denied his private criticism of the controversial government plan...

http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-01/23/article02.shtml

[Paschall]

1. Just for information - To cast a little more light on this story

Christine Boutin is a fundamentalist Catholic--or as close as you can get to being a fundamentalist Catholic and still be a member of the French Parlement. She's a member of Opus Dei and an official Vatican representative. She's merely mouthing the Church's opposition to this ban.

François Bayrou is simply becoming a more vocal opponent of Chirac on any and all issues. We are in a campaign season here; and with a view to long-term political events, Bayrou is positioning himself to run against Chirac in the next presidential election.

Meanwhile many on the French left, the Socialists in particular, are criticizing the ban because they say it is too ambiguous and that it doesn't go far enough. Many are now saying ALL religious signs need to be banned, including the small crosses, stars of David, and hands of Fatmah, that Chirac plans to allow.

The representative council of French Muslims has officially stated that Muslims should not oppose this law.

[DuctapeFatwa]

2. Including beards in the law will go a long way to answering charges

of sexism. This is good news for those who support the idea!

[Paschall]

3. Speaking of sexism, out of curiosity...

What's your view on civil unions/same sex marriage, DuctapeFatwa?

[PsychoDad]

7. How does that apply ?

To banning beards, head scarves and bandannas?

[Paschall]

9. Are you DuctapeFatwa?

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. It is a legit question

Why do you wish to distract the thread from its purpose?

Personally, I think this is the only thing DTF and I ever agree on and I am willing to celebrate it.

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. I have been posting on this topic for weeks, how did you miss it?

I support separation of religion and state and equal protection under the law.

I also support freedom of religious expression.

For more of my views on this topic, since it is not directly related to the subject of this thread, I will refer you to the below. (there are more but I can't find them)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=118307 (original post)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=170482#170871 (post 5)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1046658#1046730 (post 6)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=650811 (original post)

[Paschall]

13. Thank you

I missed it because I've been occupied elsewhere. Thank you for the links.

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. Lovers of freedom should oppose this

Just because the council of French Muslims doesn't, still does not mean that many Muslims don't think this wildly anti-freedom.

[PsychoDad]

6. It seems to me....

The council opposes it, but is telling French Muslims that if the law is passed, Muslims should abide by it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. No they should not

Nor should they ride in the back of the bus.

They should, they must, walk out en masse. Not just from the schools, but from every public job they have in France. Maybe a walkout by tons of workers will wake them up.

At the same time, they should be joined by any Orthodox Jews or any Christians who dare to wear a cross or any Sikh who wishes to wear a turban.

[PsychoDad]

5. Looks as if there is opposition to it...

From the French Council of the Muslim Faith in France

Scarf Ban Worries French Muslims

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/17/world/main593844.shtml

(AP) French Muslim leaders voiced deep concern Monday about a presidential panel's report urging France to ban Islamic headscarves in public schools.
In a letter to French President Jacques Chirac, a council of Muslim leaders said it feared the tone and suggestions of the wide-ranging report would harm the image of France's 5 million-strong Muslim community -- 8 percent of the population.
(snip)
The letter was drawn up by the French Council of the Muslim Faith, set up this spring to serve as a link between the government and the Muslim community, the largest in Western Europe. It is headed by Dalil Boubakeur, who is also rector of the Mosque of
Paris.
(snip)
"The proposed terms ... seem most discriminatory toward Islam," the council wrote.

French Muslims Affronted By Stasi Report
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2003-12/17/article02.shtml

PARIS, December 17 (IslamOnline.net) – The French Muslim Council lambasted Tuesday, December 16, a government report on secularity and religion, dismissing it as an "affront" to the Muslim community in the western European country.
In an open message to French President Jacques Chirac, a copy of which was obtained by IslamOnline.net, the council said secularism in France took "a step backward" after a government commission had recommended banning ostentatious religious sings in state schools, particularly hijab.
The Muslim council affirmed that secularism in France had taken a "step backward" after the Stasi recommendation.
(snip)
It cited the law of 1905, which separates the state form the church and provides for ensuring the practice of religious rituals.


French Fume Over Proposed Ban on Beards
Some Religious Leaders in France Fume Over Proposal to Ban Beards and Bandanas in Schools
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040121_1444.html

PARIS Jan. 21 — France's fight to keep religion out of schools has entered new and some say absurd territory. Teachers and some religious leaders fumed Wednesday over a government minister's call to ban beards and bandannas from classrooms along with Islamic head scarves, Jewish skullcaps and Christian crosses.
Muslim leaders were divided, with some denouncing a curb on facial hair as "total delirium." Others said street protests against the planned law had rattled the government and provoked a crackdown.
(snip)
"Beards? Bandannas?" asked Daniel Robin, national secretary of France's largest union for high school teachers. "What next?"

"This exercise has become absurd. Totally absurd," he said in a telephone interview.


A very good question indeed...what next?

[PsychoDad]

8. Muslims dance in streets of france in joy of ban...

NOT

Last weekend, up to 10,000 people mostly Muslim women in head scarves marched in Paris to protest the planned law.

The march was organized by the Party of Muslims of France, a small group known for its radical views. The group's president, Mohamed Latreche, called banning of facial hair "total delirium."

"This law has become a farce," he said by telephone. "It's not up to the government to tell us if we can grow beards.

"It proves what we've been saying all along that this law is anti-Muslim," Latreche said.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040121_1444.html

[DuctapeFatwa]

14. There have been some clerics who have told people not to protest

fearing that protesting would just cause further persecution, and others who have said essentially, no, we're French, too and ducking our heads down and meekly and quietly taking our daughters out of public schools is not the way to fight bigotry.

Since the decision to broaden the ban to include beards, there has been some shifting, as one might expect, and some displeasure expressed by some in the "go along to get along faction."

:evilgrin: