WP: Changes in US Iraq Plan Explored

[kskiska]

Deadline Firm; Other Details Are Negotiable

Sunday, January 25, 2004; Page A01

The Bush administration has produced a list of possible changes for Iraq's political transition, with some U.S. and British officials acknowledging for the first time that the original plan could even be scrapped altogether if the United States is to preempt the growing clamor for elections.

In two rounds of talks at the United Nations and Washington last week, the United States told U.N. representatives that everything is on the table except the June 30 deadline for handing over power to a new Iraqi government, U.N. and U.S. officials said.

"The United States told us that as long as the timetable is respected, they are ready to listen to any suggestion," a senior U.N. official said.

The United States is publicly talking tough about clinging to a "refined" variation of the Nov. 15 accord signed with the Iraqi Governing Council that outlines the terms of a hand-over. These changes could include expanding participation in 18 streamlined caucuses to select representatives for a national assembly, which would then pick a cabinet and head of state, U.S. officials say.

But in private conversations with the United Nations and its coalition partners, the administration has begun to discuss the viability of abandoning the complex caucuses outlined in the agreement and even holding partial elections or simply handing over power to an expanded Iraqi Governing Council, an old proposal now back on the table, U.S. and U.N. officials say.

The administration insists there is no sense of panic, despite the mounting opposition to the current U.S. transition plan.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45188-2004Jan24.html?nav=hptop_tb

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. Utter Bullshit

"The United States told us that as long as the timetable is respected, they are ready to listen to any suggestion," a senior U.N. official said.




>>In other words, "As long as Bush's timetable for reelection is respected".....

This is disgusting, illegal, and immoral. And guess which candidates didn't support it.

I'm ABB all the way but Kerry and Edwards can both suck my cock for supporting this bullshit invasion.

[Old and In the Way]

2. The law was immoral to start, why should we expect anything but

a dishonorable exit.

He started this fiasco to help his political/economic agenda and the exit is timed to serve his re-election as well.

I think that'll be impossible though. Can he leave Iraq destabilized and in near-anarchy? It will be a campaign issue if we cut out with the country in shambles...."gittin Saddam" ain't gonna cut it.

[ScrewyRabbit]

3. Read: There ISa sense of panic

"The administration insists there is no sense of panic, despite the mounting opposition to the current U.S. transition plan."

They have no clue how to address the situation.

[Old and In the Way]

4. You'd think, with 3-4 years of planning this invasion, they'd

have spent a couple of hours thinking about what they'd do once they occupied the country.

Cheney, Rumsfield, and Perle all must have thought that Iraq would live happily ever after, in Republican bliss, once we took over the country.

No clue going in, no interest in long term nation building, no care going out.

The scorecard to date-

+ One defanged old tyrant
+ 2 dead tyrant sons
+ No bid contracts for Halliburton (+ for Dick anyway)

- Reason for invasion, WMD, turns out to be a lie made up by this administration..
-approx 10,000 Iraqis dead.
-unknown number of Iraqi injuries.
-500+ American soldiers died
-10,000+ Americans injured.
-$200BB in taxpayer money spent for a war we didn't want or need.
-Iraq's secular moderates undermined, pan-Islamic religious RW government on the way.
-Root source of terror still not addressed.
-US international prestige in the crapper
-price of oil going up, not down.
-weakened US military, manpower crisis underway.
-has made the case of pre-emptive strike for future Presidents much more difficult if not possible.

BUT.......luckily, the unelected pRresident did not have sex! So, there is no obvious grounds for impeachment.

[demgrrrll]

5. I'm with Screwy Rabbit, I bet panic is probably an understatement.

It will be interesting to see how they extricate the United States
from this horrible mistake.

[0007]

8. Does the U.S. plan to hang onto the oil and reconstruction?

[jpak]

19. Good point

People forget that the UN gave the US and the UK control over I-raq's oil revenue.

and Chimpy ain't goin' to let that go...

Furthermore, even after the handover of authority to the puppet government, the US will still have 100,000 troops in I-raq.

and Chimpy is not going to bring them home either.

The puppet government will have no real power to govern I-raq.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. There are some in this misadministration

who did plan for this. They wanted to destabilize the ME and they don't care about W's reelection. They think they've got it fixed that they don't need no more stinking elections to accomplish their goals. As far as they are concerned the situation in Iraq is a huge success. They are sucking dry the US Treasury, brown people are killing themselves left and right, and while no one is looking they are securing all the resources. Rummie, Wolfie and Perle are probably sucking on big fat Cuban cigars, celebrating and staging their next big event, the Invasion of Syria.

[Jazzgirl]

15. You forgot shrub is planning to ask for 40 billion more!

And this year too!

[are_we_united_yet]

13. Indeed

This situation on the ground is bad both miltarily and politically for * (in my opinion).

I think Cheney, Paul D, Perle, Rummy, Condi, Powell and W badly, badly, badly miscalculated by alienating the French,the Germans and the Russians and invading Iraq with a wreckless diplomacy (hard to justify the use of the word diplomacy in this instance) and they are really unsure of how to stabilize Iraq.

In my opinon, they are spending money hand over fist keeping a military presence in Iraq, they are having to manage troop morale and all the "Shock and Awe" they possess in their military arsenal is ill-suited for the civil mess they've created in Iraq. It appears opposing this war from the outset was the correct position to take.

[calimary]

6. "if the United States is to preempt the growing clamor for elections"

What a quote. Un-fucking-believable!!! We, the self-proclaimed definition of democracy trying to "preempt the growing clamor for elections!" Well, I guess bush really wants to remake Iraq in his own image and likeness. That's what he had his people do here in the US back in December, 2000.

Oh, my heavens, that is disgraceful!!! Is this a bad dream or what? When can I wake up from this?

Oh yes, and "The administration insists there is no sense of panic..." Yeah, RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

[teryang]

7. The chimp regime is on the ropes

Saying anything is on the table is a rope a dope strategy while your moving 100,000 troops into the country. It is not only the re-election he is thinking about, he is extremely vulnerable here. He will appear to be pliable until the transition is in place. If it goes well the pretense of seeking a political solution in Iraq will go on until the election. They have no intention of having or leaving a sovereign Iraq.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. So instead of Saddam

W is willing to consider any option? Too bad none of the choices are going to bring stability to Iraq and after the clerics take over, you can forget about democracy.

[priller]

11. Joseph Wilson saw this coming long ago

The chances of establishing a democracy in Iraq, given any timetable, are exceedingly slim. The chances of establishing a democracy in Iraq by June are nil. This is from the first interview Wilson did on NOW with Bill Moyers, several months before the Iraq war, many months before the Niger thing blew:

=====

And I can tell you that doing democracy in the most benign environments is really tough sledding. And the place like Iraq where politics is a blood sport and where you have these clan, tribal, ethnic and confessional cleavages, coming up with a democratic system that is pluralistic, functioning and, as we like to say about democracies, is not inclined to make war on other democracies, is going to be extraordinarily difficult.

And let me just suggest a scenario. Assuming that you get the civic institutions and a thriving political culture in the first few iterations of presidential elections, you're going to have Candidate A who is likely going to be a demagogue. And Candidate B who is likely going to be a populist. That's what emerges from political discourse.

Candidate A, Candidate B, the demagogue and the populist, are going to want to win elections of the presidency. And the way to win election is enflame the passions of your population. The easy way for a demagogue or a populist in the Middle East to enflame the passion of the population is to define himself or herself by their enemies.

And the great enemy in the Middle East is Israel and its supplier, the United States. So it's hard to believe, for me, that a thriving democracy certainly in the immediate and near-term and medium-term future is going to yield a successful presidential candidate who is going to be pro-Israel or pro-America.

[Jazzgirl]

16. But...but...they'll throw flowers at our feet 'cuz we liberated 'em...

The misadminstration needs to go. Never in my life have I ever seen such incompetence. In any organization they'd all be fired. Too bad we have to wait until November!

Jazzgirl :mad:

[Old and In the Way]

12. The price of Democracy in Iraq

The US will have to cede power, oil, and probably the airbases to UN control. Only the UN is in a position to put Iraqi interests above any other countries interest and provide the international support to make a non-secular, Democratic state at all possible.

If Bush wants Democracy in Iraq, that's the price.

What will it be George?

[Jazzgirl]

14. I find this interesting...

"The United States told us that as long as the timetable is respected, they are ready to listen to any suggestion,"

As long as they do it when the US says it better be done, they don't care! These guys need to be hang-tied!


Edit: Sorry KissMyAsscroft...didn't see you eyeballed the same thing. I just hit reply after I read it! I agree with you!

[ithacan]

17. and of course the media won't cover the post-US disaster

though they should focus very much on it.

It's gonna be a typical US "feel good" bullsh** performance, where once the US is gone it falls off the radar screen while the society goes down the tubes because of US policies. You haven't heard much from the media about Afghanistan have you? Iraq will dissapear from the screens in the runup to the election if, as is highly likely, it remains a mess because of how the US f***ed it up.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. So Much For The "Illegitimate" U.N.

It's a good thing the U.N. probably has the Iraqis best interest to consider, because otherwise what would stop them from give a big-old "f--k you" to the U.S.?