US denies 'imminent' threat warning.

[punistation]

US denies 'imminent' threat warning

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8515134%255E1702,00.html

THE White House today denied it ever warned that Saddam Hussein posed an "imminent" threat to the United States. It is already smarting from the failure so far to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

"I think some in the media have chosen to use the word 'imminent'. Those were not words we used. We used 'grave and gathering' threat," spokesman Scott McClellan said. But if US President George W. Bush never called Saddam's Iraq an "imminent threat" in so many words, he said it was "urgent".

Vice President Dick Cheney called it "mortal" and it was "immediate" to Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

*snip*


Kisses XXOOXX
Jen

[CO Liberal]

1. "45 Minutes" Isn't "Immediate"?????

IMPEACH THE BASTARDS!!!!!!!

:kick:

(Edited to fix typo.)

[Whoa_Nelly]

40. Bush the Liar! Read this Speech Oct. 7, 2002

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all. Thank you for that very gracious and warm Cincinnati welcome. I'm honored to be here tonight; I appreciate you all coming.

Tonight I want to take a few minutes to discuss a grave threat to peace, and America's determination to lead the world in confronting that threat.

The threat comes from Iraq. It arises directly from the Iraqi regime's own actions -- its history of aggression, and its drive toward an arsenal of terror.

<snip>
It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people.

<snip>
Members of the Congress of both political parties, and members of the United Nations Security Council, agree that Saddam Hussein is a threat to peace and must disarm. We agree that the Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons.

<snip>
Iraq possesses ballistic missiles with a likely range of hundreds of miles -- far enough to strike Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and other nations -- in a region where more than 135,000 American civilians and service members live and work. We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States.

<snip>
Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints.

<snip>
Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

<snip>
Today in Iraq, we see a threat whose outlines are far more clearly defined, and whose consequences could be far more deadly. Saddam Hussein's actions have put us on notice, and there is no refuge from our responsibilities.

...and many more references to the danger, the threat, the sudden demise of the United States. Bush used this speech almost verbatim up until the US invasion of Iraq. He is one lyin' SOB. Americans need to know these words were used, that he created this imaginary threat for purposes that only serve those who wish to destroy our constitutional freedoms...the BFEE and the PNAC.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

[kurtyboy]

52. Here's the meme--and please use it with abandon

Regardless of the words they expressed, the administration used BAD JUDGEMENT--period.
It was

BAD JUDGEMENT

to invade a sovereign nation without impeccable evidence. It was

BAD JUDGEMENT

to go against the will of the Security Council. It was

BAD JUDGEMENT

to ignore professional intelligence analysts. It was

BAD JUDGEMENT

to call 10 million protesters a "focus group". It was

BAD JUDGEMENT

to hem and haw that the weapons would eventually be found. It was

BAD JUDGEMENT

to think that the American polity could ignore lies.

It was, and is,

BAD JUDGEMENT

to allow this adminstration to continue.

[leesa]

48. Don't you listen? "Immediate" is not "imminent" Get it straight!

Depends what is, is, or is not.

[Whoa_Nelly]

50. ROFL

Sounds like RummySpeak..there are known knowns and unknown knowns....

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

55. No, see if they had missles, warheads, and stuff to put in them

THEN it would take 45 minutes or so for these fictious rockets to reach the US.
Assuming, of course the Turks, Russians, Finns, or Canadians did not down them before they got here.

[arcane1]

2. don't flame me for saying this, but....

the excuses coming out of the White House lately, are more "Clintonian" than anything Clinton ever said.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

17. Not quite

In Clinton's famous quote, he at least admitted that he used the word "is".

[Enraged_Ape]

58. Hardly. Lying about a blowjob...

never got anyone killed.

[underpants]

3. 'Murkans just love parsing words

I wouldn't be surprised if they never actually said that (they are quite slimy that way) but everyone knew what they meant.

When you boil things down to black and white it is easier to see if you are wrong.

[Lugnut]

4. If memory serves me.....

Correctly, wasn't Bill Clinton accused of parsing words? Oh, silly me! It's okay when Pukes do it. /sarcasm

[kitkatrose]

21. Oh my yes, and the Repubs were so happy

to have "grown ups" in the house, that would take responsibility for their actions and not play word games with the American people. :eyes: Riight, the first thing they do is crow about how they apologized to the Chinese without really apologizing. Christ, I know my attention span isn't that long, but even I can remember the imminent threat bs.

[fairfaxvadem]

5. yeah, just saw the Queen of Da Nile on CNN...

Shrub struggling to defend his position. And it sounds like Kay is trying to appease everyone by saying "no weapons...but invasion still okay".

Again, my question: whether it was "grave and gathering", "imminent", "immediate", "mortal" or "45 minutes away", or whatever it was, then why weren't the Saudis and Kuwaitis flipping out about him and screaming that they guy was ready to blow again? Seems that they have taken all this in stride, knowing damn well Saddam was no where near being a threat except as the local boogey-man.

Don't get me wrong, the man is a pig, but over 500 Americans are dead because of this mess and they didn't have to be.

[arcane1]

11. Bush himself said Saddam threatened the region in which he lives

yet the region wasn't doing a damn thing about it...

[JoFerret]

39. Queen Bush of De Nile

Excellent.

[lovedems]

6. If Saddam wasn't an "imminent" threat...What was the rush?

They can argue semantics all they want but they weren't wasting a minute to engage in "Shock and Awe".

I have had enough of this administration thinking we are all stupid idiots who shouldn't ask questions, shouldn't criticize, shouldn't second guess...

[alittlelark]

35. The RUSH was

oxycontin;)

[Virgil]

7. No imminent threat is what makes it a war crime

International law only allows for pre-emptive war when there is a n imminent threat. Now they are admitting there was no such threat. That is like saying Bush is a war criminal, which he is. Of course, even if they would have said imminent threat, it does not make it so. It just means they are liars.

For Sadam to take his billion dollar military budget and attack the US with pop guns would have been suicidal. He might be a CIA-endorsed dictator, but he was not crazy.

[enough]

12. Yes, this is the point.

The towering immorality (lets just say evil) of killing tens of thousands of civilians in an invasion and occupation of a country that was not a threat to us.

This is a crime, a war crime, a crime against humanity.

They should be tried.

By focusing on the word games -- we said this, we didn't say that -- they narrow down our vision to the question of whether they "lied." As if the answer to that is what matters. And their vast crime goes unpunished.

[Zhade]

36. It also makes them traitors to the Constitution.

Seriously. This is not hyperbole - defying international law to commit a war crime is defying the Constitution, which states all international laws agreed to by the United States (such as the Geneva Convention) are supreme laws of the land.

These men and women are not just liars, not just war criminals. They are also legally-defined traitors.

They must be removed from power.

[alittlelark]

37. To the Hague, to the Hague

I say:evilgrin:

[chelaque liberal]

46. This point has to be emphasized

Bush is a war criminal. Bush is a murderer. Thousands of people are dead because of his lies.

[bif]

8. Yeah, they never actually said "Mission Accomplished" either

God they sure know a million ways to spin a story!

[UpInArms]

9. see this article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A39500-2003Aug9¬Found=true

Depiction of Threat Outgrew Supporting Evidence

By Barton Gellman and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 10, 2003; Page A01

excerpt:

The new information indicates a pattern in which President Bush, Vice President Cheney and their subordinates -- in public and behind the scenes -- made allegations depicting Iraq's nuclear weapons program as more active, more certain and more imminent in its threat than the data they had would support. On occasion administration advocates withheld evidence that did not conform to their views. The White House seldom corrected misstatements or acknowledged loss of confidence in information upon which it had previously relied:

• Bush and others often alleged that President Hussein held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, but did not disclose that the known work of the scientists was largely benign. Iraq's three top gas centrifuge experts, for example, ran a copper factory, an operation to extract graphite from oil and a mechanical engineering design center at Rashidiya.

• The National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) of October 2002 cited new construction at facilities once associated with Iraq's nuclear program, but analysts had no reliable information at the time about what was happening under the roofs. By February, a month before the war, U.S. government specialists on the ground in Iraq had seen for themselves that there were no forbidden activities at the sites.

...lots more...

[displacedtexan]

10. Grave- as in the hole where they bury you?

What's not life threatening about that kind of threat?

[pinto]

13. bait an' switch, red herring...there were no WMD....

whether or not the word "imminent" was used, the context of WMD/Hussein/US was eminently clear.....

[salinen]

15. I'm against capital punishment

except when it comes to waging war through lies for resources.

[Melsky]

33. My feelings exactly

It's a war crime, a crime against humanity.

What a pack of lying scumbags.

[fairfaxvadem]

14. The official "Round Peg/Square Hole" Administration...

Geez. These people and their one-track minds. Can't deviate or rethink anything. So sure they are right that all evidence to the contrary puts them on the plane to the parallel universe where their version of the truth still works.

It's like a really bad sci-fi movie from the '50s playing out right in front of us. Fake scenery and all.

Too bad it will cost us all so dearly.

[punistation]

16. Hindsight.

So, let's review.

The war wasn't about WMD. The Chief Weapons Inspector resigned because the search was futile, and Powell admits there probably weren't any to begin with.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3426703.stm


The war wasn't about Saddam being an immediate threat to America (...and the world, of course!). See above.

The war wasn't about liberating the Iraqi people. America has quietly stripped Iraqi women of their rights and imposed Islamic SHARIA LAW. (How do the Rebublicans justify that? Christian or otherwise?)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21321-2004Jan15.html


So... what was this war about again?

Well, on the plus side, the oil IS flowing.


Kisses XXOOXX
Jen

[librechik]

18. I'm reminded of a Monty Python sketch about a parrot...

looks like they ransacked the thesaurus to find some close synonyms to "imminent." Why? is there something specific in international law that they were counter-spinning against?

Funny that they don't see how ridiculous this debate has gotten. What difference does it make if they said "urgent" or "imminent"? They f+++++g LIED!

[Hobarticus]

19. Look how many amalagrams I can make out of the phrase "immediate threat"!

Bringing integrity back to the White House, indeed...

[pinto]

20. does "weapons of mass destruction related program activities" ring a bell?

ed for yet more Admin spin....(hard to track)

[0007]

22. Listen to George W. Bush - Coling Powell - Donald Rumsfeld and other

in this five minute video.

http://www.kaicurry.com/gwbush/remindus.swf

US denies 'imminent' threat warning, LOL!!

[areschild]

38. What a powerful video.

Has this been sent to anyone in the News (even tho' we think it might be futile)? Has this been seen by anyone but us? The flag segment really brought tears to my eyes.

[Zhade]

51. Damn.

That really moved me.

[R Hickey]

53. That was excellent

That is one powerful message.

[Elidor]

23. Ari Fleischer and Rumsfeld both used the word 'imminent'

But all the 'imminent' foofaraw is a sideshow anyway. The sold Americans on visions of New York city attacked by a Saddam-built nuke. They said he was too dangerous not to attack him. They lied.

[Selwynn]

This is a lie. Cheney used "immanent" Rumsfeld used it, and Mckellen

..speaking for the president said "yes" to the question, does saddam pose an immanent threat?

[mike1963]

25. I think it was Fleischer unless it was recently maybe Scotty did too...

could have missed it..

[Malva Zebrina]

24. and they get away with it

the average person does not have a clue as to the lies this evil administration heaps upon them because they do not have the time to be up on all of it. Too busy working two jobs and all the rest of it.

George Bush, the AWOL usurper, calling himself, laughably, the Commander in Chief, is a liar. Plain and simple. He lies and he blames other people consistently for the lies he tells. He is a coward.

This is the worst possible type of a man who has ever occupied the White HOuse. He is the first one to ever occupy it without all of the votes being counted. He is the first to have his big daddy's appointees on the Supreme Court appoint HIM the president, for which he promptly should assume the title of "presidunce" because he is , without a doubt, dumb and ignorant, crass , barbaric and arrogant. Yet, he seems to believe that he was actually "elected". Naturally,he cannot face the fact that he did not win an election in spite of all that bribery , thugery, and arm twisting. Fact is--Bush, you did not win and had to steal the presidency in spite of all that money you raked in. And you have made amess of this country and have killed thousands of people on your ineptitude and your lies. May you never ever have the luxury of a night's sleep again for as long as you live.

Bush, the unelected, AWOL Commander in thief, is a disgrace to this country and he will be remembered as the president with the asterisk==the one who illegally took office. For this he cannot be proud at all and niether can his dumbassed poppy and mommy. He has wrecked us! He is evil and he is punishing his own people (except for the very rich ones) and he needs to be taken down in the next election or else we will surely be in very grave circumstances.

[mike1963]

26. I'm wishing for a SECOND asterisk. First "president" convicted of war

crimes.
:grr:

[missile_bender]

27. I never said it was raining. I said water was falling from the sky

[Redleg]

41. LOL! I will have to remember that one.

I am still laughing- thank you!

[areschild]

56. Luv it!

:D

[Darwin2002]

28. who cares what word they used? it was certainly implied. if not,

then why go to war? why not let inspections work?

[Sparky McGruff]

29. I don't get it...

Why on earth are they so insistent that they didn't use the word IMMINENT?

Is this a legal thing? If the threat wasn't imminent, then there's no justification for a pre-emptive attack. But, they obviously want to distance themselves from this word. I really don't understand their rationale.

But, then again, one shouldn't try to understand the motives of the insane.

[Malva Zebrina]

30. right

damn it. They went there before the UN and jerked them all around for a while, all the while knowing that we would invade Iraq on NO evidence at all, simpley because we COULD.

Now, they are denying that they were anxious at all and denying that they said or gave the impression that Saddam was an imminent threat.

Geez, it is so hard for me to remember and I have tried ot keep up with it all==I can imagine those who do not have the time, or a computer, not being aware of what Bush and Powell and all the rest of them passed off as "justification" for invading another sovereign country , killing thousands of it's civilians, children as well, and plundering it's resources. Then, in a totally stupid blundering, cannot help the Iraqi people to regain their lives because--well because they just did not think further than securing the oil fields and the hell with the people there whose children were killed or maimed and who have no water or electricity in many cases. Their beloved country was invaded--their museum and their cultural heritage was and is being destroyed by a superior military force--just like the native Americans were and like the South Americans were/

We need to evolve, as human beings, beyond the reptillian brain in order to rise above barbarism and religion that sanctifies the murders and killing of the children of the enemy who worships a different god.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

45. reptilian brain- I use that term also

great word Marianne--sure does describe these cavemen.
I believe that reptilians don't see anything wrong with staying the way they are...
in fact they probably think you are the crazy one if you don't understand their ways.
Seems the only way for them to evolve is for us who HAVE evolved (at least to some degree enough to distiguish right and wrong) to not allow them to be destructive(restrain them) and to set good examples for their children (who knows what kind of examples they themselves have set for their kids).

I think this is where Artists/Writers/entertainers - celebrities - musicians -even sports players come in.
They all have the ability to influence and to reach the kids of the cavemen and hopefully they may change the future and help evolve their own families.
Something has to click though-certain centers have to open in the brain--maybe sometimes trauma has to shake the mind open?

This invading countries pre emptive thinking does not reflect the values of the majority of those who live in the U.S.A.

Only a very few are controling a very many-
What can we do?
Let's hope enough of us get fed up and get REALLY Creative!!
Let's see who's more clever and creative- Greedy gatherers or deep thinkers.

[leesa]

49. I think they would be hard-pressed to convince a judge that

'Imminent' and 'immediate' are not synonyms. Although I would say that 'immediate' is more 'imminent'.

[modrepub]

31. Threat my ass...

Anyone who thinks Saddam was a threat is delusional! Lets take a look at this:

-Saddam Hussein barely controlled a third of his country. The Kurds basically ran northern Iraq since Bush I and the “No Fly Zones” kept southern Iraq nominally under his control.
-Any attempts to shoot American or British airplanes failed miserably so Iraq had absolutely no control of its air space. There is no way in hell an organized army can put up a credible fight without sufficient control of the air.
-The biggest impediment to the US invasion was the weather. When the Iraqi army was asked to fight they died almost immediately or slank away without firing a shot.
-Pulling Saddam from a dirt hole alone tells me he had few friends or staff willing to die to protect him. Fear was the only thing that kept him in power. His surrender tells me he’s a coward, something most people could have told you before the war.
-Most of the weapons programs appear to be made up by scientists eager to cash in on Saddam’s desires. That he couldn’t tell he was getting mislead tells me he was not a very smart man, certainly not capable of any real threat to anyone outside of Iraq.

I think the rest of you could add onto my list. Please don’t let anyone put set this moron up as a great threat, he’s nothing more than a two-bit dictator.


No man shall fear calamities except those which he himself had originated.
Emperor Majorian to the Roman Senate

[R Hickey]

54. Most of the weapons programs....

Although I agree with the rest of your post, I have to say that I believe the "weapons programs" concept is a recent, post-invasion spin.

[dArKeR]

32. Now Dubya not so certain over WMDs - Reuters

Washington - In the wake of a top expert's conclusions that Iraq had no large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, American President George Bush on Tuesday dropped his previous certainty that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, the reason given for the United States-led invasion of the country.

The shift came as Bush met Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski, a close war ally, and as some of his top aides planned to meet a top United Nations envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, about a possible lead role for him in postwar Iraq.

The conclusions from David Kay, who resigned last week as the chief US weapons investigator in Iraq, raised questions about the quality of US intelligence before the war and whether the Bush administration hyped it to justify its case for war against former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. It was likely to resonate on the campaign trail as Democrats seek to replace Bush.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw1075227121462B262&set_id=1

[SmokeyBlues]

34. They are so weak and stupid...

Or at least they think the majority of Americans are.

To me, it really is immaterial whether someone from the cabal actually used the words "imminent threat" to describe the "gathering threat" that Saddam and his phantom weapons of mass destruction posed to the free world. Just the fact that the stupid mofos manipulated the media (which didn't require great effort given that many were already lined up with skirts raised and pants lowered) to the point where everyone knew what WMD stood for, is all I need to know that they lied like dogs then and are lying like even bigger dogs now.

I don’t know about anybody else, but I am sick and tired of constantly having my intelligence fucked with.

[are_we_united_yet]

42. Oh I see..

We were the f cking crazy ones and we just mis-interpreted what you said. After all, 45 minutes is plenty of time to hitch a ride on the space shuttle to mars and chill out there until the bio-hazard and nukes decay off.

Got it.

Our bad.

[are_we_united_yet]

43. Delete

duplicate sorry

[tableturner]

44. Didn't say I ate it....

I said that I put it into my mouth, chewed it, and swallowed it. But I didn't say I ate it.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

47. A quick Thesaurus search found this...

Entry: imminent
Function: adjective
Definition: at hand

Synonyms: approaching, brewing, close, coming, expectant, fast-approaching, following, forthcoming, gathering, immediate, impending, in prospect, in store, in view, ineluctable, inescapable, inevasible, inevitable, likely, looming, menacing, near, nearing, next, nigh, overhanging, possible, probable, threatening, to come, unavoidable, unescapable


hhmmm...I see gathering and immediate listed as synonyms.

How stupid do they think we are?

[arwalden]

57. Okay... If We Agree That They Didn't Use The Actual Word "Imminent"...

can we also agree that it was their intention to convince us that the threat was "imminent" and that every word and phrase that they DID use gave America and the world that the threat was "imminent"?

They lied and now they want to play the semantics game.

-- Allen