Teens arrested for smashing 'decadent' SUVs

[rodbarnett]

By MIKE GLENN
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

A former Cy-Fair High School student serving five years' probation for felony arson in a flag-burning case headed a group of self-described environmental guerrillas who vandalized almost 50 sport utility vehicles, officials said Tuesday.

Precinct 4 deputy constables said the group, led by Randall W. Heinrichs, 18, smashed windows and slashed tires on SUVs in north Harris County from October through December.

<snip>

Heinrichs, placed on deferred adjudication last year after pleading guilty in the arson case, has a "personal hatred" for SUVs, said Precinct 4 Capt. Rick Brass. "He talks about how they are environmentally unfriendly (and) decadent," he said.

<snip>

Lindsey Garofano, 18, of Houston and Jarett Barger, 19, of Cypress were arrested Tuesday. Their bail was set at $5,000 each.

<snip>

Garofano told deputies she particularly resented "arrogant ladies" who drive expensive SUVs instead of buying more economical cars and donating the surplus money to charity.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2374241

[Wonco_the_Sane]

1. Kids say the darnedest things

Hope they get a good Lawyer.

The flag burning charge sounds like a bunch a crap, though more details are warranted.

As for the vandalism, they should get some jail time. That's just wrong.

[Muddleoftheroad]

3. Lawyers

Yes, I hope they get a good lawyer. If guilty, I hope they get a good amount of jail time too.

[drewb]

82. Quote- "If guilty, I hope they get a good amount of jail time too."

:thumbsup:

Preach on brother man!

:loveya:

[northernsoul]

99. remember, we've only heard the cops' side so far

I would agree that these kids might stand for a bit of "attitude adjustment" if they're truly guilty (I think lots and lots of community service and a hefty fine might adjust said attitudes better than being locked up with a bunch of murderers, rapists, and junkies) - but remember we're only hearing the government's side of the story. The state needs to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that these kids actually did the deed. Hating SUVs is not against the law, wrecking them is.

[Fovea]

9. Like Dubya's Blow habit...

I consider it a youthful indiscretion.

[demdave]

2. Sound like the level of intelligence and maturity of your average ELF

I especially like their "arrogance" at believing they should dictate how and where other's money should be spent. Only people who have never had to work for a living and pay taxes and bills would ever use a term like "surplus money". I have been working since I was 12 and have never had "surplus money".

[Clovis Sangrail]

17. Know a lot of ELFers?

I've never met one, so I have no way to judge the intelligence and maturity of even one ELFer.... much less be able to come up a reasonable stab at an 'average'.

I'm not condoning what the ELF has done, or what these kids have done.

I'm just pointing out that you're painting with an awfully wide brush.

[Loonman]

24. Trust fund kiddies

Only trust fund slackers can afford to think like that.

[Djinn]

62. don't agree with the actions

after all they couldn't know if the vehicles were used for more reasonable purposes than ferrying kids from rich wasp-y suburbs to posh private schools (that's pretty much what they're used for here) BUT clearly buying an SUV is much more expensive than buying a car or mini van that will carry you and your goods/kids just as well - therefore it is surplus money

[bleedingheart]

4. There are a lot more positive things these two could have been

doing to improve the world..

[pfitz59]

5. Hayduke lives!

:evilgrin:

[ellie]

8. hee hee!

[mbperrin]

116. Hi Hayduke!

How did I miss ya yesterday? Say hi to the masked man!

[pfitz59]

118. Took a six beer drive today!

Giving bauxite back to the earth!

[Rowdyboy]

6. Here's a link to the flag burning incidents

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/42103_local_flagburnings.html

Evidently he and a friend vandalized a middle-school and a private business, could have been sentenced to 20 years, and got off with 5 years probation.

Hope smashing those SUV's made him feel good.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. This doesn't help our cause.

They'd do better to pressure this administration to enforce better gas mileage for SUVs than to turn off people who may have a valid reason for needing an SUV.

[Terwilliger]

11. few have valid reasons for owning an SUV

SUV's are basically luxury vehicles

Grizzly Adams would have loved an SUV. Fran Smith ferrying her brood over the rough terrain of Main St. doesn't need an SUV.

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. Cars in general

Are luxury items. If you live in an urban area, you don't need them.

I can't stand SUCs, but I can't stand environmental terrorists even more.

[Robb]

14. Excellent point. nt

[Terwilliger]

23. wellllllll.....I don't see anybody trying to eliminate cars, either

Democrats like the gas-guzzling luxury vehicles like everybody else, and won't do everything they can to promote mass transit.

Maybe they could do something besides line their own pockets for a change.

[kodi]

13. sez who, you? so you're the one who sits in judgement of others?

so many of us have been looking for god and god shows up right here on du.

so tell me god, who judges you?

[Terwilliger]

22. same to ya

why do you have the Garcia avatar, anyway?

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. I drive an SUV and it's not a luxury item.

For one thing, there is truth about feeling secure driving in one which has helped greatly in the long distance driving requirements which my family faces these days. It's the perfect choice for lugging around large groups of people in all kinds of terrain.

Franky, if you want to alienate me, g'head, at your own risk. That's the part of the bleeding heart syndrome that alienated me twenty years ago. Don't know why it would be different today. I'd rather see you fight battles you can win.

[Dover]

38. My sister has one too and feels safe driving around the girl scout

troop and all their kids and dogs. But she said she will get rid of it this year or next when a hybrid alternative comes on the market (the Toyota Highlander). It will be MUCH better all the way around.

[Dover]

39. It's those Hummers that really set me off. They are completely

unnecessary and make me think of urban warfare. They are like the gated communities.....wealthy people wearing their armor, protecting themselves and their wealth from all those "have nots".

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. Yup, I'll give mine up in a heartbeat the minute a more economical one

comes around. My husband is thinking this is a 7 year car, I told him not to count on it being around more than 3.

[BigDaddyLove]

95. I think there is a hybrid made by Ford.......

the Ford Escape is offered in both traditional and hybrid forms now; my wife and I are thinking of packing in our Blazer for this new model.

[Terwilliger]

69. she "feels" safe...so that's measurable?

I say if you "feel" safe in an SUV, you have to pay for the "feeling"

[The Backlash Cometh]

85. So what value do you put on your child's life Terwilliger? Or your

neighbor's child? I don't like the options, but if SUV's reduce the risks and lower my stress level as I carpool kids to and from their lessons, it's worth putting up with people like you. Well-intentioned, but not understanding the real problem.

BTW, some SUVS have very good ratings when it comes to roll-over tests. I agree with you that it's silly to buy one that has a poor rating.

[Terwilliger]

89. I'm sorry, but those are the Puke talking points

OH NO! I"M DRIVING AROUND IN A TIN CAN!!

That's bullshit...your family was safe in the sedans of the 80's and 90's....why do you need a truck now?

You don't.

[iverglas]

91. and don't forget ...

"Me! me! me!" Isn't that the biggest Republican talking point?

.

[The Backlash Cometh]

103. So now you're campaigning for Republicans, are you?

If you're claiming that Republicans understand the stresses that the average American family must endure better than Democrats do...

[iverglas]

104. if that was directed at me

Well, I don't have a clue what you're on about.

I regard the general masses of SUV owners whom I see (I live in a medium-to-large-sized city, not in the US) as hogs driving hogs. I mean, I really don't imagine that anyone so unnecessarily wasting resources is the most conscientious recycler on the block, for instance. None of us is pure; there are many ways in which all of us place our own interests above everybody else's -- but anyone who does it so conspicuously and excessively and intensively as to drive an SUV really isn't likely faithful in the small things either, I'd guess.

So if I regard their various lame excusess for their anti-social behaviour as being easily reduced to a chant of "me! me! me!" and say that this is a "Republican talking point", then I'm campaigning for Republicans by claiming that Republicans understand the stresses that the average American family must endure better than Democrats do?

Huh. I was pretty sure that I was saying that Republicans tend to attract votes by appealing to people who place their own interests above anyone else's, and that placing one's own interests above everybody else's is all that the lame excuses for driving SUVs amount to.

If you want to tell me what you were saying, feel free. Feel even freer to explain how and/or why you would choose to portray what I said as whatever it is you're portraying it as.

.

[The Backlash Cometh]

106. I repeat, "So now you're campaigning for Republicans, are you?"

Let me cut it down to size: there are fundamental concerns that you fail to address. Security and children are not negotiable items to the American housewife. If you want to alienate this voting sector by calling them hogs, do so at your own risk.

[iverglas]

115. pay attention, now

I made it as clear as I could.

I'm a Canadian. I live in Canada. I believe it would be improper, if not illegal, for me to "campaign for the Republicans", or for anyone else.


Security and children are not negotiable items to the American housewife. If you want to alienate this voting sector by calling them hogs, do so at your own risk.

Well, you apparently have no qualms about alienating that voting sector, or any other, by calling it "housewives", so to each his/her own, I suppose, eh?

I can think of lots o' things that "are not negotiable items" to various "voting sectors". I'm damned if I can figure out why their items should matter more to me than my own, which of course happen to include "security and children" and also happen to be more effective ways of addressing those items than driving around in monster vehicles anyhow.

(Funny thing how many fewer Canadian, or European, "housewives" seem to find those things essential for "security and children". Guess they're just irresponsible airheads up here, and don't know or care how to look after their kids better. ... Or they're not quite as brainwashed and/or self-centred as their southern counterparts.)

If I thought it wise to go after votes by pandering to people's stupidity and selfishness, why then I'd be a demagogue too. And if I did it by promising an SUV in the garage of everyone who could pay the sticker price (without a thought to the real costs, or any payment toward them), I obviously wouldn't really care about anybody's "security and children" at all. I guess then you might suspect me of campaigning for Republicans, because that sounds pretty much like what I'd be doing. Of course, it's perfectly clear to me that Democrats do it too. Which is one reason I'm glad I live where I live, and can campaign for a party that doesn't.

.

[The Backlash Cometh]

102. I disagree with you. And what's more important...

...you're not the boss of me. :P

[Djinn]

63. unfortunately everyone else

who drives a plain old sedan is less secure on the roads because an accident with an SUV is far more likely to kill you than another car.

it's the driving equivalent of I'm alright Jack

[The Backlash Cometh]

86. Valid comments.

When I drove a small compact car, it took three near collisions from SUV like vehicles that convinced me it was time to upgrade. I had children in the compact car and I was driving in my own lane and they just plain didn't see me. I frankly don't see how they could have missed me. The SUV I drive today has great side mirrors. Better than on any compact car I ever drove.

[Terwilliger]

68. Terrain?

And how often do you drive off of paved roads? And I don't mean between the road and the carport.

[piece sine]

97. poor Fran Smith

JUDGED and CONVICTED entirely on the basis of what kind of vehicle she drives. Summary judgements like this are moe appropriate for Freepers and their ilk. We who love freedom respect economic diversity and the manifestations of it, such as what a person wears, eats or drives. None of these are a basis for prejustice.

[Fovea]

25. Most SUV's

actually suck as an ATV. They are dangerous on and off the road.
They are a hazard for other road users as well, as they reduce visibility at intersections.

90+ percent of SUV's do nothing that a minivan would not do better for the intended use of the buyer, and with better rollover characteristics and far better gas mileage.

But the cost of gasoline will end the rule of the roadosaurus this very year.

[Terwilliger]

26. oooo...that's a great prospect

but, usually, tyhe people who own the pricey SUV's are the ones who can afford a $60 tank of gas

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. Gasoline is not that much different between some vans and SUVs.

I was surprised to discover this when I was shopping around.

[Djinn]

64. but you're less likely

to die, crushed in a rollover in a van - it amazes me that the manufacturers of these things can push safety as one of their pluses

[Sterling]

51. That will work not.

The law is now useless. Im sure that much will become obvious to all in the near future.

[Robb]

10. "smashed windows and slashed tires"

...thank goodness the production of replacement auto glass and tire rubber has no associated environmental costs. :eyes:

[Rowdyboy]

15. Gotcha!

Good work Robb!

[pintobean]

18. lol

Excellent point. I am yet to roll on the floor, but that had me leaning in my chair.

[Laughing Mirror]

16. why is the word decadent in quotes in the headline?

[undergroundpanther]

19. SUV

What gets me is when I see one person driving like an idiot in a huge cavernous SUV all alone.They ain't hauling anything but their own ass in that thing.The other thing that gets me is why is public transportation busses etc. so pathetically funded outside of the cities(public transport is pathetic in the cities too,and they service rich neighborhoods more efficiently than the poor ones that need it more)? Is this lack of community run transport because suburbanites have been conditioned equate public busses with an appearance of poverty? Since suburbanites like to pretend poverty isn't part of their neighborhood they don't fund stuff like homeless shelters, do they expect the cities to absorb them? This kind of NIMBY mind game has it's costs.Many of them are unseen by the selfish ones who think they are'above' needing it.

Until people pull their heads outta their asses and realize each of us are personally responsible..collectively for world's problems by the individual choices we have made as individuals.Our choices they add up collectively and morph by numbers of people making the same bad selfish or short sighted choices into global warming and Geo political chaos over oil and a billion other huge problems we think we aren't responsible for and tell ourselves there is nothing we can do to help.How convenient you can lie to yourself..

You might sit here and wail to everyone like a baby that you have the right to choose an SUV,and technically you do,for now..and you also have the right to be held RESPONSIBLE for your decadent choices and face the music and judgments of others who see your choice as harmful to their well being and the results of your choices heaped upon your head when the Earth suffers and people rebel from being oppressed and abused because their land's got oil..SUV ARE harmful to my well being.I hate them.I would never own a piece of shit like an SUV.
I don't wish to harm my world,my culture and my fellow citizens for the choice to drive around in a luxury monster truck.The luxury of an SUV isn't worth the damages it causes to me and my world.

It's because of alot of selfish,oblivious,decadent people and their want of luxury SUV's we as a race of people SUV owners and non-SUV owners alike have more problems with the environment now. Someday when all these bad selfish choices reach critical mass and the Earth says enuff,we will look around and point fingers,at each other.. rather than make another choice, a self limiting choice, to be responsible for healing the culture you participate in,it's already happening.
As for kids busting glass and tires,it's wrong,to bust stuff.But I see where they are coming from. Many times I have wanted to bust some assholes SUV up for arrogantly taking up 3 parking spots or almost running me over. People who buy SUV's get an illusion of power in an SUV and because they buy these trucks for psychological reasons rather than practical needs (like having 10 kids or running an adult daycare) So they are conveniently unaware consciously and culturally excused .They can avoid seeing how rude and imposing such a huge vehicle is to people who don't share their insecurities. Unconsciously SUV owners know exactly why they bought the SUV and it is just another ugly symptom of this sick society and diseased way of life we have here in America

[Toby109]

20. Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[Zhade]

34. Once again, you say what should be said.

NT!

[llmart]

42. To undergroundpanther....

Amen!

[mike1963]

43. Most excellent rant, sir.

:D

[libview]

87. "sick society and diseased way of life we have here in America"

why do you live in such a place you hate so much? Why do so many want to immagrate to this horrible country?
Why are you so angry and unhappy with your life?

[0007]

88. Beautiful, fucking beautiful!

My feelings exactly.

[piece sine]

98. poorly argued...

too much venom...couldn't disagree more.

[Cuban Peril]

108. I feel as though

my I.Q. dropped 20 points reading that garbage. You scream at conservatives to "stay out of your bedroom" and yet you want to plant yourself in everyone's driveway? Who are you to comment on what people do with their hard-earned money? If you can't afford an SUV or the $50 tank of gas, blame yourself.

[yellowcanine]

21. Also possible these kids are just punks using the environment issue

to rationalize their lawlessness.

Even giving them the benefit of the doubt, it is always easier to point to someone else instead of thinking what could I do to become part of the solution? Also, it is always dangerous to judge the motivations of how others by appearances. Some people have a legitimate need for a large vehicle. (No, I don't have an SUV nor do I ever anticipate having one).
You certainly can't tell by seeing a parked SUV whether the owner has a legitimate need for it or not.

[DrWeird]

27. Good for them.

It's good to see some kids these days still understand the meaning of civil disobedience.

If these kids get jail time for vandalizing SUVs, then SUV drivers ought to get jail time for vandalizing my planet.

[Blitz]

29. Will you be volunteering to pay their fines

and post their bail?

No?

And in what world does vandalism and destruction of private property = civil disobedience?

[DrWeird]

30. Mmmhmm. And are you willing to recoup the East India Company...

For their loss in valuable tea revenue?

[Blitz]

35. When did I ever support any action

against the East India Company as you are supporting the crimes committed in this instance?

[DrWeird]

56. You are a proud, patriotic american, are you not?

Just imagine how much all that tea was worth after interest and inflation.

[Blitz]

57. Like I said

I never supported that bit of economic vandalism either. In fact, I am of the opinion that the British may well have had the stronger legal and ethical position during the Revolutionary War. Water under the bridge, now. Not to mention the fact that I am very much against reparations for crimes committed centuries ago by and to people completely unrelated by blood or nationality to my ancestors of those days.

[sandboxface]

32. It's either or for me...

SUVs are a wasting fad for some and a necessity for others. My father drives a huge truck for work and, like yesterday, puts on a plow to move the snow at his business. If you could single out the morons from the people who actually use them, more power to ya.

I also think the fault also lies with the car companies for not making engines more fuel efficent.

[LostInTheMaise]

40. You can't be serious

Please list all harmful products that you use daily...all building materials used in your home, all food you eat and medicine you use.

Then let me know which ones I can come over and torch because they harm the environment. Then we'll share a jail cell and discuss what was wrong with saying "good for them".

[The_Casual_Observer]

28. As somebody once said on this board

SUVs have one good purpose, they eliminate the need for people to wear a sign around their necks that read "I am stupid asshole".

[Sterling]

52. That is true

It is silly that some morons actually take pride in their folly.

[lumpy]

33. The road to anarchy

More to come

[Dover]

36. Is this near Houston? Oooooooo...the belly of the neocon beast

Slaying dragons one SUV at a time......

[tom_paine]

37. One assumes their sentence will be just a bit harsher than Murderin' Ferd

Janklow.

Of course, as an Imperial Stooge, it is quite surprising that Ferdie even got 100 days for running that Filthy Little Nobody over and killing him.

[Blitz]

46. Way to go

completely off-topic.

[tom_paine]

90. You'd think the Class Double-Standard as well as the Imperial

Double-Standard for meteing out what passes for "justice" in Imperial Amerika would be at least tangentially on-topic.

Particularly considering that said double-standards are not just getting worse, but RAPIDLY getting worse and more shamelssly parcticed in the open.

My bad.

[sendero]

41. Vandalism...

... of this sort is unjustifiable. It is similar to when PETA turns some animals loose. It is the temper tantrum of a child.

While everyone here seems convinced that nobody needs a SUV, I'd have to say to you "get a life". Get 3 kids. Get a place in the country. Get a clue. Not everyone who buys an SUV drives them like a sherman tank and guess what! You might not have all 3 kids with you at all times, they might be at school!

Yes, when it comes to something like a Hummer, I have a hard time understanding why anyone would need one. I think most of the guys who buy them are on some soldier fantasy kick. Stupid, yes - worthy of vandalism, well no.

[llmart]

44. As an aside....

Did you know that Ahhnold gets his hummers free from Detroit? Also, that most hummers are leased and not bought? The people who drive them can't really afford to buy them, but they want everyone to think they are really, really macho men when they are usually insecure in their masculinity.

I live in the motor city - these tidbits get around quickly here.

Most of the people here who drive SUV's rationalize why they need them. It's amazing what they come up with. Funny, there were seven children in my family and we managed to get around without an SUV. How did we do it? Such hardship we endured! (sarcasm intended here) Also, I grew up in the snow belt, so don't give me the old line "but we need it for the bad weather".

[Dover]

80. Well back in my childhood days the Rambler station wagon WAS

the equivalent of a gas-guzzling SUV....and was probably bigger!

I read somewhere that efficiency does not necessarily have to translate into vehicles being small. I guess it just depends of the technology they develop.

[Sterling]

53. wow I wonder what people did before SUV"s

How did we make it all this time? :eyes:

[sendero]

60. We had ...

... station wagons. Any more questions?

[Robb]

83. My SUV is a luxury

...in that regard. Before the Explorer we had a series of trucks that weren't half as good (or frankly as comfortable) in the deep snow. And when I say that, you probably have no idea what I mean by "deep".

I'm tired of defending it to people who've never lived where I live. Not everyone has concrete in their town. The small-mindedness of some supposedly progressive people is truly awesome.

When this one croaks in fifteen years, I'll get another. I'd be thrilled if it was a hybrid, but at least I understand that if I replace the truck I'm driving every couple of years to feel better about using less gas, I'm causing more damage to the environment through the effects of production.

[sleipnir]

58. Protest and Civil Disobedience should be encouraged.

These kids did what was right. SUV's should be burned to the ground and their owners sentenced to jail time. Hard, time in a Fed Pen. would end the whole use of SUV's. It should be a Federal Crime, punishable by up to 5 years in jail. That makes sense, those who own an SUV are murderers and no better than Bush or his ilk.

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

59. The most stupid remark in this entire thread N/T!

[Blitz]

77. It's especially funny

in light of his sig. Liberty, freedom ... riiight.

[Muddleoftheroad]

112. Was this intended as sarcasm?

[Djinn]

65. my folks had four kids

and we almost always had atleast one kid who's own parents were broke, AWOL or just shitheads living with us.

They managed with a station wagon

[deceased]

45. bla bla bla suv

if you are going to claim suv's destroy the enviorment because they have low gas mileage...then you better add sport cars and trucks to that list. most new suv's get better gas mileage than the average sports car and truck, but for some reason i never hear about the ELF vandalizing a ferarri.

i drive a 23 year old suv, the thing is built like a truck, has the frame of a truck, drives like a truck, gets the gas mileage of a truck, the only difference between a truck and my suv is the seat in the back and the extended cab...im still not quite sure how a bucket seat, 3 windows, and some sheet metal can turn a truck into evil incarnate on wheels. i have caught people trying to tear off my windsheild wipers and key my car, but the half-ton truck that normally parks beside me gets left untouched...wheres the logic in that?

of all the things that destroy and pose a threat to our enviorment, suvs are somewhere at the bottom of the list. i agree with passing laws to force automobile makers to increase gas mileage in all their vehicles, force them to use materials that are safe and that can be recycled, and force them to make cars that dont pollute massive amounts of toxins.

but to outlaw suv's because you dont like the way they look or the driving habits of a few suv owners is beyond narrowminded.


i would just like to remind or inform you guys, that computers are far more damaging to our enviorment than suvs. you have to pay someone to recycle your computer, you often have to pay to throw away your computer...why you ask? because computers are made with a massive amount of toxins and hazardous materials...and because seperating the toxic components from the recycleable components is so expensive often, electronics and your computers just get dumped straight into the ground. if you really understood what was in your computer, you wouldnt get near the thing without a hazmat suit.

you ever wonder if you are destroying the enviorment when you upgrade your computer? well now you know the answer is yes and its worse than driving an suv.

[Sterling]

49. Too bad they got caught.

Better luck next time.

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

50. and the silly twit has the nerve to use the word "arrogant"

"Garofano told deputies she particularly resented "arrogant ladies" who drive expensive SUVs instead of buying more economical cars and donating the surplus money to charity"

Guess the freedom of choice ran right by her??

[Sterling]

54. Freedom is not the right to ruin the world with selfish BS.

I know that is a common mistake these days.

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

55. and if someone trashes your hybrid, civic, etc?

Because they are slow, hard to see or some other ludicroius reason?

Put that shoe on, seems a bit tight huh?

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KTM]

66. Another chance for people to defend their SUV habit

Me, I think they suck. I think the tax loopholes for them should be closed immediately. I think the vast majority of SUV drivers choose them for purely idiotic reasons, like "I like to be able to see over the other cars." (great.. and when every moron drives one, what will you do ? Buy a Monster Truck ?)

In some instances they do have a valid justification - in most, a Subaru is more practical.

But, you are correct - you are free to make your choices. You are free to be as selfish as you wish.

As always, I propose one simple thing: Establish a mean fuel efficiency of all cars currently in use. Add a new federal tax on vehicles based on fuel economy, paid annually. If your chosen car is lower than the mean, you pay a little less. If it is significantly lower, you could even get a tax credit. If it is higher, you pay a little more. If it is significantly higher (I'm talkin' 'bout you, Arnold), you pay a whopping tax penalty. Income generated could be used to fund alternative energy research.

You should be free to choose as you wish - but, like all choices, you should have to accept the consequences.

[if it comes from the whitehouse it must be true]

67. Thats fine

"You should be free to choose as you wish - but, like all choices, you should have to accept the consequences"

And simply put.

But what they did gets into "my way or no way" you simply cant do that.

[AZCat]

72. While I agree that direct action...

is illegal and wrong I don't think we all have the freedom to choose as we wish. The consequences, when they affect others, are what determine how far our rights extend.

SUVs and cars and trucking and everything else that uses fossil fuels is dependent on nationally supported networks. Even if I don't own a car, I am affected by your decision to own one- the costs are born by all of us.

My tax dollars support an aggressive foreign policy, and my lungs act as scrubbers for the emissions from vehicles. We don't all exist in separate worlds- they all overlap and we can't forget that.

[Robb]

84. great, tax the poor.

Want to guess what kind of mileage cars and trucks belonging to the working poor get?

[pintobean]

111. Subaru?

Sure. Let's not buy anything built in the USA. That way, we ensure a jobless recovery. U.S. auto makers are laying off left and right.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

70. HAHA

I love to see a story like this. Here's a good nonviolent website dedicated to the hatred of H2's. http://www.fuh2.com

[Djinn]

74. read the mail bag

it's even funnier than the DU Hatemailbag

"This website is stupid and apparently they will let any person do whatever they want on the web now"

wondering who this freeper thinks "they" are, the worldwide internet auditors??

[Zhade]

71. This is all for naught. Peak Oil will destroy SUVs on its own.

And it's coming. Some say it's already here.

We use 4 times the amount of oil we find each year, yet many people refuse to see the reality right in front of their eyes.

In the end, this - and all - vandalism is mostly just a footnote to the earth-shattering history to be written when our petroleum civilization crashes.

[daleo]

73. I am surprise nobody mentioned the Iraq invasion

Which caused a tremendous amount of destruction of life and property, which is vandalism of the highest order. It could be argued that the SUV mentality is what caused the perceived need by the U.S. (and the west in general) to control all that oil. If these kids deserve to pay reparations, and do some jail time, could the same not be said of the U.S./U.K. governments and taxpayers?

I also recall that Bush said in the latest SOTU that any war was justified, if it made the U.S. 'feel safer'. Some posters have said SUVs are morally ok because the make them 'feel safer'.

Now, these analogies may be a bit of a stretch, but I think they are worth thinking about.

[truthisfreedom]

78. for a second i thought that was a new model... the Chevy IROC INVASION!

more horsepower than any consumer vehicle in history... comes with it's own pipeline! national guard extra.

couldn't help it.

[Dover]

81. Good point. The U.S./U.K. have been running a "smash and grab"

operation....with much destruction in our wake. But it really depends on WHO gets to define the law, just like WHO defines "terrorist" as opposed to freedom fighter...or gas hungry country on a power trip?

[gate of the sun]

75. all said and done

we may need young folks like this in the future..someone with some guts to fight for what is right.....I am not saying I totally defend their actions but they are not wrong either....someday we may need some young people like this.

[coda]

76. The kids are pathetic jerks and thugs.

Their actions were, without hedge, negative, stupid, and indefensible.

[Baclava]

92. Pathetic , yes...but

If you go around a high school parking lot these days you can tell a good portion of these kids are spoiled. They all have cars (bought by their mommies and daddies) that are probably newer and more expensive than most people ever realize.

The targets of these occasional outbursts of angst are the mommies and daddies who invest this car culture into their offspring's psyche. Now and then it comes back around to bite them. So be it. Their insurance companies can afford it.

p.s. If you touch my truck, I'll kill you.
That is all.

[Piperay]

79. Nothing but spoiled brat thugs

who are using the 'environmental' tag as an excuse for something (destruction of property) they would most likely be doing anyway. Any REAL environmentalist would know random property damage to individuals is the worst way to get anyone on your side. :mad: Instead of spending their time (destroying) and money (for bats, spray paint etc) why didn't they give their surplus to a worthy charity???? :argh:

[undergroundpanther]

94. Property

Well someday property defense will not be a defense worth much.
If we keep on being selfish,in denial, arrogant and irresponsible concerning the kind of culture we are creating by the choices each of us makes that add up into a society and we refuse to curb our consumerism on our own initiative, and see beyond our own assholes..soon if we do not slow down and find some satisfaction in each other,our lives,and appreciate what we already have, eventually there will be nothing left for anyone to consume.Our current way of life cannot sustain itself on a planet of limited resources.If we don't stop this push for more,and stop this push for growth and stop taking away more than we give back to this planet,to other people,to each other something else will stop us. Like an addict we will hit our bottom.
If it is not a bottom brought home by the angry slaves making our shoes causing havoc or people in other countries sick of being abused by our military so our companies can steal their oil,Or kids shattering the windshields of SUV's it will be the planet itself refusing to function because we have taken away and consumed to 'grow' the economy' and 'better' our civilization, mechanisms we exploited as'resources' selfishly not knowing what purpose they serve to the planet's health, that kept the ecosystem balanced that we in our collective anthropocentric hubris were not humble enough to admit we know nothing about why it is there to begin with.

Our arrogance that this planet is ours to consume has made us act like cancer tweeds our own home.

If cells in our body grow out of control we panic and try everything to stop that growth because it could kill us.We apparently favor production and growth over our own continued existence in our cultures
And we do not see this way of thinking as malignant? To me that sounds like the way a cancer thinks if it thinks at all.

Growth and that includes population,capital,consumer,and all other growth states that we hope go on forever is the same thing that makes cancer dangerous to a human body.Cancer is basically unstoppable growth.Corporations are like cancers on this Earth,they create dead zones around their operations,toxic wastelands,and some make broken communities, some make broken hearts and homes.

Some people that corporations exploit to satisfy consumer(our) demands do not want what we have.They reject our glittery but toxic national mental illness and our depravity that we call "our way of life".
This way of life is sick and the people outside of it can see us from another perspective because they are not participating in our culture. Who do the slaves complain to when no one cares about them? Who listens to expendable people? Who listens to commodities? Unless that commodity stops being profitable to whomever is expending them?

Will we take responsible action against exploitation of life when Americans are made into another 3rd world commodity? We whine about outsourcing now yet we do not hold CEO responsible for their choices to ship out and be cheep or ourselves either.We still buy their shit because like them we rather be cheep, rather than do without!
And we will all work for cheep,especially if slaves undercut us and we refuse to stop depending on corporate masters telling us how to live.
If we choose to buy the appearance of integrity instead of actually living in an ethical way to each other we are slaves in our hearts.
Under the window dressings of image and products of American society I more often than not see sad,depraved,disconnected,desperate people,empty people, people since childhood,subtlety and seductively shafted by the corporate world encouraging material wants that was made into a way of life. I see a sick internecine competition that was internalized inside a grown up kid that has been tricked by sellers of trinkets, promising self esteem and love in a purchase.. growing up..still tricked into selling out time with their own kids for a good job, for an SUV and a big empty house,with separate rooms to isolate in, I see lives not lived, subverted and perverted self definitions wrapped around norms that never existed until we convinced ourselves they mattered,I see stunted ethics,warped integrity and a profound disconnection from others in pursuit of this consuming addiction.And I see denial,cowardice,conformity,insecurity fostered for a chance to look like a million bucks in each other's eyes. I see gilded slavery and decadent suicide amusing itself to death I see cancer eating up its hosts..And it makes me want to cry.

We will look impressive until we find ourselves abandoned by the demands of growth and the will to survive of companies that aren't even alive,run into the ground by CEO who are just as addicted to consuming as the rest of us. We the people have created this culture that says arrogance,exploitation,deception and selfishness is OK with us..And it is OK for us apparently until it invades our backyard and causes us to get hurt.Than we cry as we do nothing to change ourselves and change our way of life.WE go begging for a new law or a war to fix us so we never have to look at the dirt on our own hands!
If you look at the horrific effects of consumer growth driven societies,on the human being you see something different than what the market says. If you look at cost in a framework other than profits and prices.. you will see another side of it all. A side CEO and CNBC will not dare factor into their assessments of 'sucess'and cost.
Companies paint such a rosy picture to sell themselves to us if they told the truth of what they do would we always line up for more?

The cost for this way of life is expensive,as real as asthma in our kids,real as hopeless workers with no life outside the job shooting people he felt betrayed him at work, or our own kids turning to drugs to fill a hole in their hearts where mom and dad should be to listen and care but their at work again.
The cost I am speaking of is the human spirit-cost,the emotional cost, the social cost,the cost to our communities and the cost to future on a limited planet. And we can choose to stop this if we'd just say no to taking/buying more.If we do not start saying no to taking more,and stop growing and consuming voluntarily,I fear we will get some sort of intervention from elsewhere to make us stop it. Intervention can be some sort of a collective unconscious survival mechanism,an answer to our cry for help from our very core truth we have denied is real for so long.The truth that what we choose right down to what car we drive or where we get our Teeshirts to what TV shows we watch does effect others lives around us.So literally we are responsible for each other's well being,personally and collectively as much as our own.This is what we refuse to hear and take seriously.Being responsible means no one is a bystander.
In this case not getting involved is being a bystander to other's suffering.Help means DOING SOMETHING to Help another person like you would want to be help yourself if you were in that situation.Help means involving yourself personally in another person's life even if it does not profit you,even if it means sharing what you have if it can alleviate someones pain or poverty and accepting you may NEVER see a return on the 'investment be thanked for your material favors or ever control the outcome of your efforts. You just have to trust in your own motives and give without want of control or selling something as an "exchange".
This sharing scares the shit out of greedy people who always ask what do I get back when they offer help for a price.That is not help it's a business.
That business mentality is cheap fake caring,A corporate imitation of compassion only looks like compassion because the'giver'never has to touch the human faces on suffering and forget his own greed.It's easy to be greedy and cheap in this consumer culture we made helped create..Sometimes you have to choose to change yourself and change your perspectives to change this culture and sometimes it's scary and it gives you NOTHING back.
Don't you realize this "exchange" game in our culture is deadly?



When people change into another way of life..some speak of feeling like an addict coming off a habit..craving,wanting an escape to the way it was.This is how it feels when changes happen,and realizing society is hitting bottom, accepting the way it was isn't possible anymore this can cause emotional crisis.Especially in people who find comfort in keeping things appearing the same way pretending like changes can't happen to them.

As humanity wakes up to what we have done to ourselves as a species we will want to run away from it like usual.During the depression rich men corporate barons jumped from windows and died rather than be poor. Some people's lives are so cheap they will die rather than lose the job,big house and SUV.

Change happens as the impact of our own mortality and our bad choices are closing in on us,than we look at options we wouldn't consider when we were comfortable with ourselves.
We may begin to see all we have lost inside ourselves in pursuit of more of what we never needed.Introspection brings our chosen irresponsibilities back to us every time and someday there will be nowhere to run to avoid it all except a grave or to change ourselves and try different way of life.

Sadly it will not be pretty to watch this awakening,and it will be a huge task to clean up and repair all the destruction that our way of life ,this same addiction we passed on to others for generations hits a wall ...there is no more to consume,all is waste.And all the denied the psychological wounds and dysfunction ,relationship problems and pain will be incredible once the cultural escapes are inaccessible.What happens when mentally ill people who look normal can't escape,work,buy,watch TV,or drive away from their psychic pain.What happens when people have to stop,be quiet,feel and get to know their own internal emotional landscapes,and relate to one another as equals without material trappings covering up who they are with what they bought?

We as a species have been in denial of so much harm our way of life has caused,for so long,we may not be able to make amends to all the things we harmed and give back what we stole on our way down to the reality that everything we do and live with really begins and ends with our choices about how we live our lives and what we value in our actions.Words are indeed cheap when people cheapen themselves.

So when I see some sad scared kids busting up an SUV,I see kids angry that they will inherit the ever worsening mess their parents would not stop creating.It's so easy to scream vandal,and call them Eco-terrorists and scapegoat them rather than look at yourself and your contributions to their despair. Like moral cowards and addicts do blaming the victim when they hurt someone for a fix of'more'...Those kids are a symptom of our sickness saying something about the state of our culture's insanity in a clumsy ineffective way.
They are trying to fight for sanity but they too are sick,struggling to be heard somehow lost in a bigger,deeper far more dangerous social sickness manifested by masses of individuals that have lost the capacity to feel the effects on other's of their own irresponsibility and addictive consumption that the SUV has become a symbol for.

Wake up people, we are consuming ourselves and each other to death.Long ago consumption was a term for a undetermined wasting disease,like cancer.
Nowadays consumption is called a way of life.

[Broken]

105. >>>>>>

I agree. I have no appreciation for respectability. Hatred and revenge for a couple of vandals who destroy some property. But those ruining the earth and killing us all---which is worth more than property---are without 'sin'.

[glitch]

109. Welcome to DU! nt

[iverglas]

93. has anyone remarked?

I haven't read the entire thread, but I haven't seen anyone comment on this bit:

Garofano told deputies she particularly resented "arrogant ladies" who drive expensive SUVs instead of buying more economical cars and donating the surplus money to charity.

Funny how women are so often the targets of self-righteous finger-pointing ... or window-breaking, or paint-tossing -- fur coats also spring to mind.

Methinks that when it comes to arrogance and environmental destruction, and inhumane treatment of animals and maybe a few other dastardly deeds, profiteering men and their corporations, including the ones that make the SUVs and fur coats, might just give their female consumers a run for their money.

How 'bout some of them donate their money to charity?

.

[Freddie Stubbs]

117. Women aren't as likely to break your nose as a man

Althought there are certainly some that could.

[Garbo]

96. So very tired of this crap.......

How people spend their money is their business, and it is not up to anyone else, and certainly not some self-righteuos, know-it-all teenager to tell anyone how they should spend it.

These people aren't buying drugs, or child-porn, or anything else of a horiible nature.

They a buying VEHICLES....many of which are made here in the US buy AMERICAN WORKERS!!!

[sendero]

107. And people here.....

... just don't get it. This is EXACTLY why the left lost favor in the late 70s. You can't have guns, you can't do this, you can't do that. Oftentimes the goals were laudable, but people do not want the effing government telling them how to live.

If you are concerned about the environment, you have every right to convince people to buy smaller vehicles. You do not have the right to force your priorities down my throat.

And lastly, we all know that oil is running out, maybe as soon as a few decades or less. Drive a Honda, you might delay it a couple years. Big whoop.

And really lastly. I wonder how many of the self-righteous SUV patrol here lives in an energy-efficient manner. Cars are only a small piece of the puzzle. Keep your thermostat above 68 in the winter or below 78 in the summer? You suck. But I don't want to pass a law to make you.

[pintobean]

100. They're lucky

"vandals used bats embedded with nails to smash windows and cut tires"
With Texas gun laws, carrying weapons like that, they're lucky to be alive.

[Freddie Stubbs]

101. Lucky they don't live in Singapore

Then they would get what they deserve.

[LostInTheMaise]

110. As long as they work off and pay for the damages

They can vandalize whatever they want. If you break the law you pay. Period.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Freddie Stubbs]

114. I think that they may have to do more than just pay for the damages

These guys could be spending some time in jail if they are guilty.