WP: Kay: 'We Were Almost All Wrong' (WMD in Iraq)

[diamond14]

(moderators.....please keep this story, and remove my previous one which has less detail...)


Kay: 'We Were Almost All Wrong'
Former Weapons Inspector Says Search in Iraq Exposes Gaps in U.S. Intelligence

By Katherine Pfleger
The Associated Press
Wednesday, January 28, 2004; 12:50 PM


Former top U.S. weapons inspector David Kay told members of the Senate Wednesday that the failure to turn up weapons of mass destruction in Iraq exposed weaknesses in America's intelligence-gathering apparatus.

Later, he told the Senate Armed Services Committee that "we were almost all wrong -- and I certainly include myself here," in believing that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

The committee's top Democrat, Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, pointed to repeated statements by top administration officials flatly stating that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. He pressed Kay to acknowledge that there is no evidence Iraq even had small stockpiles as of 2002. Kay also said that vans the administration claimed were used for biological weapons were likely not intended for such a program.



"I think the world is far safer with the disappearance and the removal of Saddam Hussein," he said under questioning from Chairman John Warner, R-Va.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56311-2004Jan28.html?nav=hptop_tb

[htuttle]

1. Sure, almost all of 'us' were wrong...

...except for the TEN MILLION PEOPLE involved in what bush called 'focus groups' before the war.

:mad:

Why do we pay those idiots ANYTHING?

[Barrett808]

2. But some of us were right

Funny that he doesn't mention Scott Ritter, who has been shown, conclusively, to be correct.

[truthspeaker]

33. and Hans Blix

According to the Bush gang, Hans Blix couldn't be trusted. Now it turns out Blix was right.

We were right, they were wrong. It's as simple as that.

[indie_voter]

3. Unbelievable

I also don't understand how the world is safer with the removal of Saddam Hussein.

Many of these same people used to tell us "we are not the world's policeman" Now it seems as if we are.

Susan Collins' comments at the hearing today were laughable. A global intelligence failure?! Not quite pumpkin. The majority of the world didn't buy what we were selling. Possibly because their own intelligence didn't bear out what the Bushies were saying?!

The CIA was extremely maligned today at the hearing. Are they going to fight back?

[Thor_MN]

31. There was an intelligence failure of global proportions..

but it was that of the idiot called *.

He is a man of faith. Problem is, his faith is of the type of holding preconceived beliefs despite all evidence to the contrary. The man has no critical thinking skills - he does not question anything. You could say that he is now having a crisis of faith - he beleived in something that had dire consequences in being wrong - and now it's going to bite him in the patoot. He has been spared having to deal with his f-ups in the past because daddy and his friends have bailed him out. I think he has outspent their wallets, but I'd like to to get what we can out of them.

I think a interesting debate question would be "Will you pardon * (and Co.) before he (they) go to trial?"

[markses]

4. Cold Comfort

On the basis of the information that I had seen since 1997, together with an understanding of the political and economic forces involved in the dispute, I concluded in 1998 that the whole Iraq WMD myth was just that: a myth to promote American dominance over the region, through the weak agency of the UN. No subsequent information changed that conclusion for me. We were correct in our assessment, and not only the assessment that Saddam neither possessed WMD any longer, nor constituted a significant threat to either us or his "neighborhood," as the despicable sociopaths phrase their shoddy euphemism. The continued sanctions were wrong. The war was wrong.

Little more than power play packaged as morality for the obstinately immoral.

We were indeed correct. Cold comfort, though, as the body count rises and rises. The filth of the world is in charge of the world. But we hope.

[BigBigBear]

5. No, we were right

We said Saddam wasn't a threat, that there was no evidence he possessed WMD, that there WAS evidence that he had disarmed in the 90's, that his son-in-law TOLD the administration this, that sanctions and the UN inspectors had effctively disarmed and neutralized Saddam, that an attack on the nation would be costly and not welcomed by the Iraqis, that it would draw forces and resources and dollars away from the war against Bin Laden, that it would cost us 100's of billions of dollars, that we would be regarded as imperialist pariahs throughout the world, that we would be unable to successfully negotiate the demands and aspirations of the Kurds/Shi'a/Sunnis, that we'd install a puppet council with zero legitimacy, that our sons and daughters would be targets in a country that Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz insisted would be throwing flowers at us.....

No, actually WE were right. THEY were wrong.

[pinto]

6. kick

[bread_and_roses]

7. GREAT summary!

I think you covered most of the basis...I'll just add the cost in Iraqi lives and the hatred and resentment that would generate.

[dennis4868]

8. Not everyone was wrong....

DIA WARNINGS IGNORED: In September, 2002, the Defense Intelligence Agency (http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Pentagon/us-dod-iraqchemreport-060703.htm) told the White House that there is " no reliable information (http://www.ceip.org/files/nonprolif/templates/article.asp?NewsID=4928) on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons." The report also said, "A substantial amount of Iraq's chemical warfare agents, precursors, munitions, and production equipment were destroyed between 1991 and 1998 as a result of Operation Desert Storm and UN actions."

DOE WARNINGS IGNORED: In September, 2002, the Energy Department's technical experts warned the White House that the aluminum tubes Iraq was seeking --the central basis for the conclusion that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear weapons program -- were ill-suited to build centrifuges for enriching uranium (http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/pdf/Iraq/declassifiedintellreport.pdf) . In fact, Secretary Powell even admitted before the U.N (http://64.4.30.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d0956f80e6ea7a784d97d87731e8d3bd&lat=1075302281&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ecnn%2ecom%2f2003%2fUS%2f02%2f05%2fsprj%2eirq%2epowell%2etranscript%2e07%2f) . that there was controversy over the tubes.

STATE DEPT. INTELLIGENCE WARNINGS IGNORED: In October, 2002, the State Department's Intelligence and Research Department (INR) told the White House that its WMD conclusions were inaccurate (http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/pdf/Iraq/declassifiedintellreport.pdf) . Its report said, "the activities we have detected do not ... add up to a compelling case that Iraq is currently pursuing what INR would consider to be an integrated and comprehensive approach to acquiring nuclear weapons." The Financial Times on 7/30/03 noted that this warning was specifically reiterated to Secretary Powell during the preparations of his U.N. speech, but again was ignored.

[tridim]

9. Why is a weapons inspector offering politically motivated opinions?

"I think the world is far safer with the disappearance and the removal of Saddam Hussein"

His job was to search for WMD, nothing more.

[gauguin57]

10. David Kay on "Nightline" tonight.

Today's "Nightline preview" e-mail

TONIGHT'S FOCUS: He has been at the heart of the search for Iraq's weapons for years. Most recently, he was in charge of the U.S. effort to find those weapons. He has just resigned from that position, and tonight he'll sit down with Ted.

David Kay has been one of the central figures in the Iraq drama for, well, it seems like forever. He was one of the chief inspectors for the U.N. when that body had inspectors in Iraq. He was chosen to head the latest U.S. effort to find those weapons or the weapons programs. And in the last couple of days, since he has quit that position, he has said that he thinks it is unlikely that weapons of mass destruction will ever be found there, and that in fact they may have been destroyed years ago.

Does anyone still care about this issue? The administration has worked to minimize the importance of the WMD controversy, which was once cited as one of the major reasons for going to war. In fact, the President yesterday, when asked about it, pointed to other issues, and talked about the general danger that Saddam presented. There's no question that Saddam was a brutal dictator, and the world is better off without him. But that nagging question persists. How could everyone have been so wrong? Why, if Kay and others are right and the weapons were destroyed, why didn't any of the intelligence agencies pick that up?

This will most likely be a major issue in the coming election. Certainly the Democrats want to make it one, and the administration hopes that it will go away. So Ted will sit down with David Kay tonight, to talk about what he found, and what he didn't find, and what it all means. I hope you'll join us.

Leroy Sievers and the Nightline Staff
ABCNEWS Washington bureau

[diamond14]

12. kay told congress that he was going into hiding, like cheney, right

after the hearings...so what's up with the talking heads crap....

right at the very end of the hearings....Carl Levin (D-Michigan) slammed kay with a series of questions that PROVED kay is a liar, who manipulates the data for political purposes....and that kay lies for bush*....


and this must be taken right to the criminals in the White House...

[LeftHander]

15. Selective use of bad intelligence

That promps up the case for war.

Cheney leaks partial documents that are "working papers", unsubstantiated and unverified intelligence "chatter", to the press. Then points to it later saying that that is some of the best evidence we have. The Pentagon refutes it. Cheney hops down to the Pentagon and searches for more docs.


That is it dumb fuck press!!

[Just Me]

22. 'Cause he's more than an "inspector",...he's a political puppet, too!!!

I thought that was pretty obvious from the get go. If the American public was paying attention, they would find it pretty obvious, too.

[malachi]

11. Intelligence failure, my ass

Please access the web site listed below. It refers to an article in the New Yorker written by Seymour Hersh. The chimp admin refused to listen to the professionals and had made up their minds to invade Iraq with tailored and partial intelligence as a means to their end. May they all spend eternity in a spide hole.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact

[fishnfla]

20. Cheney's stovepipe

The puppetmaster

[peterh]

13. Intelligence failures????

Kay also said U.S. intelligence agencies became so dependent on information
from U.N. inspectors, they didn't develop their own sources. He also said he
would favor an independent investigation into the intelligence failures.



Ooookay…..while the U.N. inspectors were in there, the only real violation they could find was that a missile might have been able to exceed the 90 mile or 90 km limit by say 10 to 20 over…BFD…beyond that, they found nothing….and to date, WE have found nothing.

Now….is it an intelligence failure when the inspections point to zero and one year later, we’re still at zero….or is it an intelligence failure on the part of those with decision power, who choose emotion over fact?

When you’re playing with people’s lives…you should be fucking damn well sure you know whatcha doing….sorry, no buck passing here…this misadministration gets a big “F” for it’s intelligence in managing this countries resources (citizens included) and policies to date…

[diamond14]

14. watch more rats jump off sinking ship soon....this will evolve into

a real circus shortly....

my own fear is that, as war criminal bush* gets more desparate...the shrub might desparately do something really insane and injure us even more....(shrub has already done some HORRENDOUS extreme and damaging actions: like pre-emptively attacked and KILLED thousands of innocents, resulting in hundred of our troops KILLED, and thousands wounded)....

[peterh]

16. Hence…the al Qaeda offensive…

Me thinks there’s a good possibility of a nuclear device or two that will be used in the guise of a bunker busting device…you can bet there won’t be any embedded journalists on this mission…

[diamond14]

18. please tell me more about this...must have missed it....nt

.

[grasswire]

17. Scott Ritter wasn't wrong

I'd like a button that says "I believed Scott Ritter before he was proven right."

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. Saw Ritter at Chapman College on the eve of the invasion

Just about everything he predicted has come to pass. The only thing he predicted that hasn't happened yet is for the US to be driven out of Iraq on a rail, and that's only a matter of time.

[moondust]

19. "Wrong" is the wrong word.

They were stupid, arrogant liars who paid no attention to anybody's intelligence.

One fact that cannot be ignored is that we now know there were no WMDs in Iraq which means that there could not have existed any raw intelligence saying there were WMDs there. You cannot gather intelligence on something that does not exist. The genuine intelligence data were obviously ignored and/or suppressed.

[diamond14]

24. the better word is: War CRIMINAL........Our great country attacked a

third-world country, after embargoing them on a LIE killing millions...and then perpetrating a LIE, the claim that the Iraqis had WMD, and the means to deliver those WMD to the USA in 45 minutes...a mushroom cloud over Washington DC....

our great country then brutally massacred thousands of innocents by dropping BOMBS on them from the air...massive bombs, cluster-bombs flinging molten-hot pieces of metals from hundreds of 'bomblets, propelled into human beings, cutting off arms, legs, and imbedding in their flesh....dropping 'new and improved' napalm, molten melting Aluminum sealing death with hot plastics into children's skin....and bombing the Baghdad water treatment plant, cutting off their power, bombing hospitals...

these war crimes are sickening....all of America is shamed by these crimes...

the criminals that LIED and took us to war must be held accountable...

[Malva Zebrina]

34. vivid

:cry:the imagery brings us back to the fact that there were PEOPLE who lived in Bagdhad when we bombed it all up on the lies of our government who knew they did not have good reason or justification for this atrocity. They are indeed war criminals, I agree.

They were real people,ten thousand estimated, who have/had families and homes and lives--they are not some obscure "casualty" they are human beings who did not a damn thing to this country--and Bush murdered them. Human beings, with names, who went to work, like we do, who went to school, like we do, who enjoyed sports like we do or playing with their kids or cooking dinner. There were more females enroled in Iraq's colleges than there were males.

These are not carboard figures and those who would support this massacre would rather not visualize the victims as human beings. A caller on C-Span the other day, said Bush is doing a wonderful job and she would vote for him--Why, she said, look at all he has done for "those people". The impression I got was that "those people" in her mind were neanderthals--the old western imperialism mind set--the Ugly American.

[9215]

21. Now we go explore this "failure"

and it points to the "miserable failure" as defined by Google.

[Judi Lynn]

26. 9215, have you looked at google, and "miserable failure" recently?

After reading your post, I went to google, entered miserable failure and clicked "I feel lucky" and you will have to see it for yourself.
Hope it's still there by the time you check.

Amazing!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. In case they change it:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html

[vanityfair]

25. I never believed it to start with, and...

don't get me started on who I think is responsible for 9/11!

[leesa]

28. Yes. We knew ALL of this BEFORE the war.

And so did the rest of the world who told us so over and over again. All of the intelligence agencies around the world said it was highly unlikely.

[PaDUer]

29. He's on Nightline

now...

[daleo]

30. Next up, the war on corruption

In the unlikely event that the war on terrorism and the war on drugs are ever completed, the crusaders can segue right into the war on corruption. Of course, as good Christians, they really ought to stop and think about that whole "mote in your eye" thing.

"Under questioning by Sen. John Warner (R-Va.), the acting chairman of the Armed Services Committee, Kay said, "I think the world is far safer with the disappearance and the removal of Saddam Hussein." He ventured that, in a way, Iraq was "even more dangerous than we thought," because the regime became "totally corrupt" after 1998."

[nolabels]

32. "totally corrupt" after 1998."

at least the U.S. waited till the 2000 election cycle before it went with the "totally corrupt" government program.