GM Lordstown's new compact called Cruze

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The new compact car to be built at General Motors' Lordstown plant in northeast Ohio is called the Cruze.

The Cruze will be shown for the first time in October at the Paris Auto Show. It's set for production in the summer of 2010.

Jim Graham, president of United Auto Workers Local 1112, says workers at the plant are excited. The car will replace the Chevrolet Cobalt.

The vehicle will be about 15 feet long, almost the same as the Cobalt, but GM says the Cruze will make better use of interior space.

-----

GM Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner has said it could get up to 45 miles per gallon.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08191/895804-100.stm

---

Thought this was an interesting letter in yesterday's Post-Gazette. I remember renting a Metro in Syracuse, NY and how I was amazed after driving it around a lot how fuel-efficient it was. Anyone remember the Metro. I was thinking about the hoopla over the Smart Car now. If the car companies want they could get fuel-efficient vehicles out there.

METRO MATTERED
From 1989 to 1994 Geo made a car called the Metro. This car got 51 mpg highway/43 city (more than any vehicle made today, 19 years later). It was not a hybrid. It was not a "smart car." There was no cutting-edge technology.

The retail price for this car was around $7,000 to $10,000. Now, unless there is a conspiracy on the part of automakers, I cannot fathom why automakers can't/won't revive a similar car.

Geo Metros are nearly 20 years old, and they get better gas mileage than today's Toyota Prius? What is going on here? The people who can't afford expensive hybrids would like to know.

JAKE KOEPPEN,
Chester, W.Va

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08190/895382-28.stm

[JeanGrey]

1. Only one problem - the Metros were hunks of junk.

[LeftyMom]

3. My Dad called them "disposable cars"

those and the really shitty things Hyundai sold back then. They were cheap, but not worth the trouble of keeping on the road long term.

[JeanGrey]

7. I remember hubby saying they were good for about 30K

miles and that was it!

[RamboLiberal]

4. I kinda figured they were

but it did prove GM could build an economical car in mpg. Dust off the plans, update the engineering, put quality in and style and you might have a winner. We're all now looking for economy!

[JeanGrey]

8. Let us not forget "affordable".

The average American cannot afford to pay 40 thousand for a car!! There is a great opportunity out there right now, the person that comes up with a alternative car, that is affordable and has quality will make a fortune.

I just don't understand this shit. We put a man on the Moon for God's sake in ten years!! Why is this so hard?

[RamboLiberal]

12. Look how this country geared up during WWII

We didn't have computers back then, nor robots, yet we managed to turn auto builders into jeep, tank, trucks, planes, etc. Built new plants. Turned out ships, planes, vehicles, bombs, shells, bullets, guns, etc., in incredible numbers in the space of a year at most two. Our involvement in that war was under 4 years!

And as you say we went from putting our first man in space to putting 2 men on the moon in less than 7 years.

How shortsighted many in this country have become.

[Javaman]

126. You are also aware that we didn't import any oil then, right?

and the price of raw materials weren't through the roof and that the owners of the plants producing those same munitions cut a major deal with the U.S. Government for after war profits. did you also know that most of the owners of those same plants didn't get a salary during the war?

Are you also aware that once congress declares war, all sorts of laws go into effect to turn the entire economy into a war economy?

Yes, we had manufacturing might and a "can do" attitude, but it isn't inspired by good will and a gung ho attitude.

You might also want to check into the post WWII strikes by the steel and coal unions. And massive walkouts by the longshoreman's union. All as a result of those same owners who were so "patriotic" during the war wanted to continue with the crappy wages yet pay themselves huge amounts of money to make up for the lost time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_economy

[RamboLiberal]

173. Yes I'm aware of all that

Workers also starting getting benefits in lieu of wages during the war. And even if the industrialists did try to reap profits afterwar and suppress wages, executive and CEO pay was not in the outrageous stratosphere it is today in $$$$ and percentage of average worker's pay. We also had strong unions that were able to strike and get better wages and benefits for their union members which also would filter down to some extent to non-union workers.

My point is that we and now the Japanese still have auto plants here, not to mention Canada and Mexico. They should still have the ability especially now that we have CAD/CAM and computerized manufacturing and robotics to pivot their design and production lines to build the fuel-efficient vehicles that are needed and discontinue the dinosaurs in their lines.

[Lifetimedem]

162. That was when we had an industrial base.

There is not enough steel production or skilled/semi skilled workers and operable plants to do that again.

If we were blockaded or attacked today we'd be screwed.

The Republican gift that just keeps giving....outsourcing

[RamboLiberal]

174. Amazing how much of our defense industry we've

outsourced as well. How could we defeat China when we depend on electronics to for our weapons systems from China?

[RamboLiberal]

6. Gas prices drive Geos from clunkers to chic

It's a 12-year-old oft-mocked clunker of an automobile.

But Marci Solomon is hoping she'll be the one laughing -- all the way to the bank -- when her Geo Metro saves her from skyrocketing gas prices.

Solomon, like many others, was taking a huge hit when it came to gas prices. With her 100-mile commute to and from work each day, she saw no end in sight. Then she rediscovered the Geo Metro.

"I used to be a car snob, and I used to be too vain to drive anything that doesn't shine," said Solomon, an electrician. "But now it's about, do I want to eat, or do I want to make it to work? I want to do both."

The Metro has been making a huge comeback, especially on eBay, where Solomon bought the car, because of its extremely high gas mileage.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/05/20/geo.metro/index.html


Brenton Netz has made a side business out of fixing up Geo Metros and selling them locally and on eBay.

Now there's an American entrepeneur.

[JeanGrey]

9. They won't last long.

[RamboLiberal]

10. Heck it's 2008 - they managed to last this long

So maybe if well kept they will continue to last. These owners are probably treating them well.

[Divine Discontent]

137. exactly!

I think there are plenty of car snobs out there. I see them, and Grey said they never see them. I had mine and it was over 10 years old, and see what I did with mine in post 135! It was a great minimalist frugal car.

[ForrestGump]

147. For some reason, a couple of days ago I found myself wondering what happened to Geo Metros

I think it was because I was talking to someone about the search for a size-appropriate car when I got my first Camry. I realized that I hadn't seen any in ages and wondered how durable they'd proven. Now, though, having been informed by this thread that the Suzuki Swift (a car I had when I lived on a dysfunctional island for the first part of this decade...as with Corollas and Sentras, they must have made them bigger inside since 1989 'cos I did fit the Swift pretty well, and it was pretty easy on the extremely expensive gas sold on the island) was essentially the same car, I can say that I've seen a few still out on the roads here. The Swift's not necessarily a car I'd leap at for driving around here, in the vastness of the American West where distances and speeds tend to both be great, but it'd still be a handy little car for knocking about town in.

[Mark E. Smith]

11. Bullshit

They were manufactured by Suzuki, and then packaged for Geo.

It was the first car I bought when I moved to LA. I put 120,000 miles
on it. For what it was it was great.

You can still see a lot of them on the road here.

[RamboLiberal]

13. Interesting

The Suzuki Cultus is a supermini introduced in 1983 and marketed worldwide under more than a dozen nameplates — prominently as the Geo Metro and Suzuki Swift.

Carrying the internal designation SA-310 at its Japanese introduction in 1983, the Cultus has since been manufactured in seven countries across three generations — with four body styles and engines from the Suzuki G engine family. The Cultus remains in production today both in China and Pakistan.

The name Cultus derives from the Latin cultus, meaning "care" or "adoration."

The first generation of the Cultus was designed and developed by Suzuki for the JDM and introduced as the 1983 Cultus. After GM and Suzuki formed an alliance in 1981, GM imported the Cultus as a captive import, introducing it to the North American market as the 1985 Chevrolet Sprint.

The second generation, introduced in 1989, had been designed at GM's Technical Center in Warren, Michigan, and was designated the GM M platform. Equipped with engines and drivetrains developed by Suzuki, The second geneartion offered new styling and four wheel independent strut suspension.

The first European Generation II model was a "Suzuki Swift" manufactured in September 1992 in Esztergom, Hungary. Updates in 1996 followed, and model year 2000 modifications included a version fitted with a Suzuki 4 wheel drive system and badged as the Subaru Justy. The last modifications were made on the European Gen II from model year 2002 but only for the Hungarian market. The production of the 3-dr models ended in September 2002. In the same year, in December, the 4dr sedan version was also discontinued. The last variation was a 5dr version in March 2003.

Generation II of the Cultus remains in production today in China and Pakistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Cultus

[ForrestGump]

65. I had a Suzuki Swift when I lived on an island.

Tough little car. The speed limit was 21 mph, so it did the trick, handled well, and never gave any problems. With a 1000cc engine, its powerplant was smaller than what I've got on my Kawasaki motorcycle... :D

[dysfunctional press]

111. i was on the big island of hawaii in 1985, and there were tons of suzukis...

it made me wonder why i had never seen them on the mainland.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. The Cruze and Metro were both made with Suzuki

My old girlfriend had the station wagon and she got 150,000 miles out of it
before she sold it.

[JeanGrey]

116. I hven't seen a Metro on the road in years. And if you got 120,000

congratulations as it is probably the only one.

[Divine Discontent]

136. Again, I disagree.

I see them even still to this day, different drivers in different Metros. I live in a poorer community, so maybe that's the reason you don't see them, as now, they would be very old looking vehicles. The one I sold, the man paid a bit of a premium for because of the gas mileage it got (about 40 mpg).

[Mark E. Smith]

154. Thank You

[RexDart]

171. Location, location, location...

It also depends on where you drive. The central coast of California is easy, weather-wise, on cars, so I see a handful of Metros and even a couple of the Honda 600s. Which make me wish I had kept mine.

[Chovexani]

194. That poster never lets facts get in the way of her foaming at the mouth.

[JeanGrey]

202. In my subdivison the houses are in the 100K to 130K range

so my neighborhood is definitely not ritzy!! And I live near Metro Atlanta and again I haven't seen one in years outside of the junk yard.

[susanna]

196. No, he wasn't the only one.

My sister got 215,000 miles on hers.

[JeanGrey]

203. Wow - I am speechless.

[susanna]

205. Actually, she dubbed it "the car that wouldn't die."

At a certain point, she wanted it to keel over so she could get a new one. Now that she has a newer car, she still waxes nostalgic over that old Metro. She loved that car. No accounting for tastes, I guess. :-)

[JeanGrey]

206. She probably had one car in a million, because overall they

were terrible.

[susanna]

207. Maybe, but that's exactly my point.

You can't paint an entire vehicle make and model with the broad brush you're using.

[ForrestGump]

I wouldn't know...I couldn't fit in one

(when shopping for cars back in 1989...ended up with a Camry that better fit my 6'5"-ness)

But I love this bit from Big Trouble:

"You have a Geo? A Metro? The LDA coupe or the hatchback? My biological father sells them in Tulsa, and if the salesman tried to pitch you on free undercoating it's total bullsh*t...they fall apart before they rust. Sixty percent of the car is made from recycled plastic soda bottles"

[WriteDown]

76. I still....

Wake up in a cold sweat some nights thinking about the metro I owned briefly. Before it left me, it used about as much oil as gas.

[Divine Discontent]

135. I disagree strongly. I owned one.

I had an early 90's Metro. It was extremely durable. Very shocking considering I paid $750 for it in '02. It had 50K miles on it and when I sold it due to size issues for what I needed, it had 100K. I drove it repeatedly on mountain roads, and even when it got hot, it never broke down.

I also drove it 2x without stopping for much, on long trips. 1000 miles one time, and 1500 the second time.

I have had more expensive vehicles that were not as reliable as my old Metro was. The only thing that ever happened to it was that the timing belt went out.

It was not a high quality looking vehicle, but I'd say I MORE than got my money's worth out of it.

[susanna]

195. Are you serious?

My sister had one that ran FOREVER. I think it died a couple of years ago. They were not that bad, in my opinion. But whatever. Ganging up on the domestic three seems to be DU's issue of choice these days.

[Fumesucker]

201. I had a Suzuki Swift a while back..

Basically the same thing as a Metro..

It was actually a great little car.. Had over 200k when I bought it and I drove it for a couple of years with no problems at all.

[pokercat999]

212. They had a 3 cyl 1 liter engine, some motorcycles have

bigger engines. Very cheap to operate. One thing you must keep in mind about cheap versus expensive vehicles. If you are buying the cheapest vehicle made it's probably because you can't afford a bigger (better?) more luxurious vehicle. The poor (relatively) owner of the cheap car probably can't afford the maintenance for the vehicle. The owner of the expensive car can afford and gets the maintenance done.

I noticed this when Mercedes introduced the E190 to the American market. Lots of people bought these cars for the "status" of driving a Mercedes but couldn't afford the upkeep so they became pieces of junk. The upscale Mercedes owner has a wonderful machine that requires lots of high priced maintenance, and gets it, they last for years not because they don't wear out but because the are properly maintained.

[trthnd4jstc]

2. Thoughts of the Future where over-ridden by a desire to break the Back of the Working Middle Class

The Rich of GM, like most of the Rich placed Power, over Profits, and long term business sustainability. The Rich wished to break the Back of the Working Class, hence they outsourced, and down-sized, and lied, and murdered, and lied, and schemed, and now we are in an economic crisis. Thank you, you heartless evil bastards. Wealth which is hoarded, and giving the poor easy credit, will destroy a nation.

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. The Cruze has been around for years glad it will be made here now.

Actually the Cruze is what General Motors calls a compact lifestyle vehicle. Developed with alliance partner Suzuki, the Cruze was built for Japan. where the smaller the cars are, the better. It is also marketed under the Suzuki Arena name.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_10_182/ai_94335249




This one is made in in europe with Fiat/Suzuki but is called the Sedici

[JDPriestly]

15. I like the styling.

It reminds me a little of the old VW bugs, but it is larger. It looks jaunty, kind of invites baby boomers and slightly older to feel young and jaunty -- It has a good-old-days feel for me. Unfortunately, I can't afford a new car and don't expect to be able to afford one when this car comes out. Besides, I like the reliability of my Honda. I'm not sure GM can match Honda's reliability.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. I like the styling too

I hope its a success

[dysfunctional press]

113. it kind of reminds me of the amc pacer...

i LOVED those cars- had 5 of them through the 80's.

[DainBramaged]

121. People still love them

[ContraBass Black]

164. "had 5 of them through the 80's"

Were they so short-lived as that?

[dysfunctional press]

175. on the contrary- i always bought used...fixed them up...and drove them hard.

one of them was bought just for parts. another was one that i bought for an extended stay on the big island in 1985.

they were very solid cars with TONS of space inside, and a dream to work on. i could change the starters without even jacking them up. i changed one of them from a manual transmission to an automatic, and another from an automatic to a manual(just to see if i could. i could. but the clutch pedal was a real bitch.)

[lithiumbomb]

89. that's not what they will be building

They will be building the followup to the Chevy Cobalt.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/09/chevy-cruze-to-be-built-in-lordstown/

Will be very similar or even identical to the next generation Opel Astra (we get the current gen car as the Saturn Astra).

[ptolle]

152. pacer?

Is it just me or does the thing look like a clone of the old American Motors Pacer?Maybe a little less rounded, but crisp edges is all the styling rage these days.Pretty much everybody's building a version of the hatchbacks, reduced fat station wagons Europe's been driving for years.And I'm glad to see it the Silly Urban Vanity and full sized pickup as three passenger sedan with a large open trunk can go the way of the dinosaur as far as I'm concerned.

[DainBramaged]

90. Not the same car, sorry

way too small. That is more like a 'commuter' car. The new car will be about the same size as the Cobalt.

But thanks for trying.

[Divine Discontent]

138. goodness, why the "but thanks for trying" comment to him/her? there is another Cruze vehicle so

it's not like they were trying to deceive. People are being so snippy on this board for no reason.

[harun]

166. It is mandatory for DainBramaged to come in and be an asshole in every

car thread. Not sure why, but you can set your watch to it.

[pokercat999]

213. Wouldn't

have anything to do with the UAW logo on his posts.....would it?

:sarcasm:

[DainBramaged]

17. Chevrolet's new compact car to be called the Cruze

Source: Automotive News

General Motors is calling its new compact car for Chevrolet the Cruze, the automaker confirmed late today. "The name is a derivative of the word cruise," says Nancy Libby, GM spokeswoman. GM will unveil the production version of the Cruze at the Paris auto show this fall, Libby confirmed. On June 2, Automotive News reported that GM would build a new compact car to replace the Chevrolet Cobalt at its plant in Lordstown, Ohio. The next day, GM CEO Rick Wagoner confirmed that Chevrolet would get a new compact.


The Cruze will be built on GM's Delta compact car architecture. It will use a new 1.4-liter global engine that GM developed and recently announced in Europe. The turbocharged four-cylinder engine will be used in several GM vehicles worldwide. GM says the engine will be capable of developing 120 to 140 hp. Sources say mileage could exceed 40 mpg. Production of the Cruze is slated to start in the middle of 2010 as a 2011 model. Libby sees the Cruze's main competitors as the Honda Civic, Volkswagen Jetta, Mazda3 and Ford Focus. The Cruze will be sold globally and will be similar in size to the Cobalt, Libby said. The five-passenger car will be about 15 feet long.


"We're coming to market as a sedan," Libby said. "There's no news yet on any other variants that could be spun from that vehicle." Libby said the engine will be built in Flint, Mich. GM unveiled the Cobalt in late 2004 as a 2005 model. It's been a top-selling car since its launch, selling more than 200,000 vehicles annually. Through June, amid a spike in gasoline prices, Cobalt sales are up 18.5 percent to 114,250. In June alone, Cobalt sales rose 21.6 percent versus June 2007.

The demand for the Cobalt has prompted GM to add a third shift at its plant in Lordstown starting on Aug. 4.





Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20080709/ANA02/722553657/1190

---

Take that Toyota

[Ian David]

18. Will it jump a couch? n/t

[KittyWampus]

22. it will have the BEST damned cupholders known to man

[gateley]

19. Those GM boyz are just too hip.

[TomInTib]

20. I saw a Cobalt yesterday.... and it was bright yellow.

Shouldn't they all be a dark, vibrant blue?

I don't get it.

[DainBramaged]

21. What's your point?

[KittyWampus]

25. 40 MPG? Cars were getting about that when I graduated highschool in 1980. Big fucking deal.

[DainBramaged]

26. Right, we're done, you just want to argue

Love your Japanese piece of shit.

[TomInTib]

31. I just cannot figure out why GM named a car after a color.

Hell, if I had a Cobalt, it would be deep blue.

But those cars are damned homely.

[DainBramaged]

36. So we get it you don't own one, Jesus

[TomInTib]

42. Hey, man, don't take it so personally.

Hell, if I posted what kind of car I drive, I would probably be TS'ed.

Nothing personal, friend.

I just thought it was really amusing to see a car, named after a colorizing mineral, that would be painted a bright yellow.

I've probably just spent too many years in the Art Biz.

Tom

[Kolesar]

122. By your logic, it should be radioactive, too

Kind of like your posts, now that I think of it--radioactive.

[Divine Discontent]

139. each of your posts here is inflammatory & way too argumentative - learn to not take things so

personally. you're being rather rude to your fellow DUers. Also, your "love your Japanese piece of shit" is rather uncalled for.

[Redstone]

177. Single-issue type of guy, are you? Funny, I figured that if a car is made in America,

that kind of makes it an American car. Now, if it's made in Mexico (or, horrors, in Japan as some of them are) by a company whose headquarters happen to be in Detroit, does that make the cars less mexican or Japanese?

So, let's see: A Honda made in Ohio is not American.

But a Chevy made in Japan (or Korea) is American.

OK, fine. You win. Even if I can't follow your "logic."

Redstone

[Psephos]

114. Cobalt is a metal. Mustard is a condiment. Avocado is a fruit.

None of those things are colors, but neologists like to pretend they are. :)

[sentelle]

120. no, but cobalt is used to make cobalt blue

If you look at paint formulations, often they are made with the materials mentioned.

Titanium white (classicly) had titanium oxide in it. Cobalt blue actually had cobalt in it (the metal, not the car)

[jmowreader]

92. I believe it's a joke...

as in "if you name a car after a shade of blue, shouldn't the car actually BE blue?"

[elocs]

23. Why, oh why do people actually buy banana colored cars?

I recently saw a really hot looking Mustang--other than the fact it was bright, banana yellow.

[DainBramaged]

24. What DU now judges people by the color of their car?

WTF is that about, other than stupid.

[elocs]

32. Why not try and lighten up a little? Are you really this deadly serious?

I am simply saying I hate bright yellow cars, either banana yellow or lemon yellow. What does any of this have to do with judging people? :shrug: :wtf:

[DainBramaged]

35. YOU being judgemental about the color of a persons car

lighten up my ass. You could care less about the significance of this release.

[elocs]

48. You cannot be this stupid or obtuse. Excuse me while I put you on Ignore.

Life is too short.

[DainBramaged]

50. We're even X you too

[Divine Discontent]

140. I'm a Teamster, too, so just letting everyone know we're not all like him...

he's a bit much, isn't he? His "love your Japanese piece of shit", and blasphemy post for no reason to another DUer, and his first post in the thread, made me a bit uneasy, if you know what I mean...

[ForrestGump]

158. No problem. You're a reasonable Teamster, and he's a

demented one. Big difference. :D

[MindPilot]

167. I don't believe for a minute he is actually a teamster.

I think he's a company man paid to tell everyone in every car thread that if you didn't buy GM you're anti-union.

Of course since most DUers strongly support unions, we will all run out and trade our Japanese pieces of shit for a brand new Buick.

Do you think the plan will work?

[alfredo]

93. I envision a day when cars are judged by the content of

their glove compartment, not the color of their upholstery.

[TomInTib]

34. I hope it is the safety factor.

I just cannot imagine walking out to a Canary Yellow car every morning, unless it was a Lamborghini.

They have a killer yellow.

[ForrestGump]

69. Lamborghini?

You really hate America, don't you?

Go buy a tan Ford Prosaic, you foreign-coffee swilling élitist.


:P

[MichellesBFF]

118. Safety

If you were driving a car that could just about fit under a big rig, (a Lotus Elise), then you'd buy it in Saffron Yellow too. Also, it looks good.

[ForrestGump]

159. And, if I were the dude in your avatar,

it'd match my robes. :-)

[Frisbee]

58. How funny...

I saw one the same color yesterday and had the exact same thought! Seriously, I really did!

Edited to add disclaimer:

Since this thread got so stupid so quick, I drive a Ford, and my thoughts were only becuase of the color/name disconnect. :)

[tabasco]

27. Allright! They're up to where Toyota was twenty years ago!!

Progress!!

[DainBramaged]

28. Another X

[Occulus]

37. Seriously, R&D on this should have been done in Detroit ten years ago

Oh, wait. It was, and the companies killed it.

These are management issues, and the automakers really ought to take a long, hard look at the people at the top, the ones making the decisions on which technologies to develop, which to research, and which to abandon.

Maybe they're finally making strides in the greener direction. I certainly hope so, anyway...

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

43. If this took them two, think of where we'd be after more than a decade

of development.

Who made the decisions to not do the development that needed to be done? Not to be snarky, but really: who killed the electric car?

[DainBramaged]

45. Why are you asking me, or is it you are lonely tonight? Or baiting me?

There is this search engine see it's called Google. EVERYTHING you will ever need to know about everything can be found there.

Let your fingers do the walking.

[Occulus]

54. You're obviously interested in abuse, not discussion.

I just went through your other replies on this thread, and I'm not going to waste time on you ever again.

Edit: alerting. Your treatment of people on this thread is despicable.

[DainBramaged]

55. We're even

[Divine Discontent]

143. wow, you noticed it too, and went and looked at the responses

literally UNSTABLE... I know... so sad. All we can do is alert, but I feel he needs some help. :(

[DainBramaged]

156. I see you just got your Cracker Jack psychology degree

If you disaprove of my style just put me on ignore. it's those of YOU who point the fingers at US because YOU think we aren't as stable as YOU that create the problems.

[ForrestGump]

160. Seriously...I'd suggest you back away from the computer and go play with your balls some more

It seemed to calm Captain Queeg down, a tad.

[Sherman A1]

62. A little tense there?

Seems we are the one baiting, eh?


:shrug:

[sentelle]

103. i probably wont

But that's because my current car has a lot of life in it still, even after 6 years.

2 years... As a project, it sounds like they are fast-tracking it. What with the money woes GM has right now, is that wise? Don't they like, have to get it right, else it puts GM where Crystler was in the early 80's? And for the same reasons?

[Divine Discontent]

142. Chill out Bro! enough with the cursing at everyone and God! You are way too personal...

on ignore.

[TheCowsCameHome]

29. One scrapped Hummer would make six of these.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

33. Lets see blind people, the Peeus gets 45 MPG highway for about $24000

And the Cruize will get about 42 for well under 20K. Gee, Toyota wins again.:eyes:

[asthmaticeog]

38. Gee, daft people, the Prius actually EXISTS.

Gee, duh wins again. :eyes:

[DainBramaged]

40. Sure spend 10K more for 3 MPG, you are very smart

:sarcasm:

[asthmaticeog]

51. I'm just saying that you're comparing a real car to vaporware.

By the time the new Chevy comes out, the Prius could well be way better, or the Chevy could fail to be as advertised. And I'm not buying either car, so I won't be paying 10k more for 3 mpg. I have a bike, I live on a bus route and my house is 2 miles from where I work. I AM very smart. :D

[DainBramaged]

53. And the Volt will be out in Mid 2010 with a REAL production model

on display this Fall.

Vapor? Toyota had a SEVEN YEAR HEAD START AND THE JAPANES GOVERNMENT FINANCED THE PRIUS RESEARCH.

Thanks for supporting the American auto industry and it's workers.

ON edit

If you are so smart, what does ANY information on the auto industry mean to you, you ride a bike, YOU can DIE by being hit by a MOTOR VEHICLE. I PROMISE I will not comment on any of your threads on biking.

[asthmaticeog]

57. Head start? PLEASE!

US auto companies have been making high-mileage vehicles for the European market for YEARS, but haven't been selling them here. When they support America, I'll support them. Japanese auto companies employ plenty of American workers. In fact, some of them manufacture in my state, buy steel from my city and employ my neighbors. So I supported American workers just fine when I bought a mechanically excellent Honda that's almost at 150k miles and still going strong. Certainly better than my neighbor whose Pontiac ate shit after 7 years. I think he supported Mexican workers.

edit: typo

[DainBramaged]

60. Want to talk about bike tires, because I think you are better versed

in those than the American auto.

[snooper2]

127. I'll take you on pendejo

Why don't you list out everything you drive/own..

And I'll tell you what will or has gone wrong with it...

Here, I'll start..

1999 Chevy S-10 ext-cab 4.3L 129,000 miles
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix 3800V6 37,000 miles
2003 Yamaha V-Star 650
1989 Kawasaki 650SX jetski restored ( yes, the stand-up kind, others are for pussies )


And, we can go into yard equipment next if you want

[Psephos]

115. Your neighbor should have bought a Saturn

Mine is nine years old, gets 38 mpg on the highway and 32 around town (with a potent little twin cam motor and auto trans), and has 210,000 miles. Runs and looks essentially new, no major repairs ever. I use synthetic oil and take care of routine maintenance.

And it will never rust like a Japanese car because its body panels are made of fiber composites, not steel.

My interest is in keeping US autoworkers employed. As you pointed out, that can be done by purchasing foreign brands manufactured here. An honorable choice.

For maximum preservation of US jobs, retiree payments, medical coverage for families, tax receipts, and industrial capacity, domestic brands should be considered seriously. Hundreds of thousands of middle-class livelihoods depend on it.

I'm ready to punch the next "progressive" who slanders the products made by UAW labor and further threatens their jobs, dignity, and future.

[LTR]

117. Many of those cars would not be allowed on the road here

There's those microcars. They often fail to meet U.S. crash standards.

Some of them are diesels. They would fail U.S. emissions standards.

It's not all black and white. It's just that some of these cars aren't all that feasible here.

[Heywood J]

188. "There's those microcars. They often fail to meet U.S. crash standards."

Yes. When the only things they crash against are other microcars, they don't need to be built as if they were crashing into Hummers and SUVs. Small cars here have to be built so that SUV drivers don't kill their occupants.

[DainBramaged]

198. Yup, but shhhhhh, the gas mileage proponents don't want to hear that

crash into a semi, never happen, t-boned by a woman sitting on a phone book on her cell phone driving a myriad number of over-sized SUVs, never happen, just give me that high mileage tin can.

[TommyO]

163. To be fair, European car manufacturers send us their low-mileage cars

while keeping the fuel efficient ones for themselves.

[NickB79]

211. And the US government had PNGV: Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles

"The partnership, formed in 1993, involved 8 federal agencies <1>, the national laboratories, universities, and the United States Council for Automotive Research (USCAR), which comprises Daimler Chrysler, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation. On track to achieving its objectives, the program was canceled in 2001 at the request of the automakers, with some of its aspects shifted to the much more distant FreedomCAR program."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNGV

Note that the US automakers were the ones who pulled the plug on that project.

And the results of this US GOVERNMENT SPONSORED project?

"GM, Ford, and Chrysler all created working concept vehicles of 5 passenger family cars that achieved at least 72 mpg <4>. GM created the 80 mpg Precept, Ford created the 72 mpg Prodigy, and Chrysler created the 72 mpg ESX-3."

And this was YEARS before Toyota released the Prius, despite funding from the Japanese government.

Some "head start" that Toyota had there, eh?

[ret5hd]

41. SNAP!

:rofl:

[WriteDown]

78. You may as well save your breath DainBramaged

The Cruze could cost 5K and have an auto-pilot feature and the naysayers would still go on about how Toyota can never be bested.

[deadmessengers]

95. "Will get" - strong words there

When it rolls off the production line, we'll see what it "will get". I see "could get up to" (a double weasel clause there - bonus marketeer points!) but nothing about "will" get. We'll see what it "will" get when the Cruze is in the hands of real drivers in the real world - but I'll bet a dollar to a donut that it won't be anywhere near what GM's marketing materials try and imply that it will.

On the other hand, I got 48mpg, combined city & highway, in a rented Prius back in January. Real car, real driver, real world.

Oh, and speaking of rental cars I've had recently: I'd also point out the rented Chevy HHR with less than 3000 miles on the clock that left me stranded on the side of the freeway back in April.

So, yes, Toyota does win again.

[customerserviceguy]

184. Ha! I rented an HHR last year

while in Florida, my lady and I called it the "PU Cruiser". That thing had problems with the tire indicator going off to show that one of the tires was low, but nothing looked amiss. The guy at Alamo said to just ignore it, they always do that.

Rental fleet cars are almost always newer, the problems aren't supposed to show up until the rental company unloads them on the public as "practically new" because of theoretical top maintenance.

[tabasco]

112. I paid $6000 for an Echo that gets 45 mpg.

Had it for six years now.

Btw- you're an idiot.

[sofa king]

44. Cuz itz fnu to mssiplel.

Bizeotch.

[MJJP21]

46. Wasting time

GM has its work cut out for it if it plans on going toe to toe with the Honda Civic, Jetta , Mazda and Focus. Why not just use Honda engines and be done with it? That is what Saturn puts in their Vue. At least you won't have to wonder about the reliability of a tried and proven engine.Most of the problems for US car makers involve reliability issues and quality not fuel economy.

[DainBramaged]

49. Used is the key word here. But since you aren't a potential customer why care?

I guess you really don't know much about anything except what you want to believe.

[eggplant]

59. Out of curiosity...

When GM makes cars overseas for overseas markets, do you feel that the locals over there should avoid buying them because they are really "American" cars and not local ones?

I would think that you would be in favor of UAW-made cars, regardless of the brand name. The Subaru that my wife drives was built in Indiana with UAW labor. And if I'm not mistaken, GM owns a piece of Subaru, yes? Oh wait, they *used* to, before they sold it off to Toyota. But they owned a piece back when her car was *built*, so that should be ok, right?

And then, what about the GM Prizm / Toyota Corolla joint effort? Were the GM versions ok, but not the Toyota ones?

Can you explain your antagonism towards global companies that got their start in Japan vs global companies that got their start in the US? What's the difference?

[Canuckistanian]

64. My 1995 Honda Civic Si was made by Canadian CAW workers

Too bad it was stolen (:( ).

And with all the cross-border projects (Chrysler/Daimler, Subaru/GM, GM/Toyota, etc., etc,) why the jingoism for "pure" US-made cars?

It's time to face reality. No ONE country can expect to totally dominate the car market any more.

Not in Tokyo. Not in Toronto. Not in Berlin.

And certainly not in Detroit.

[ForrestGump]

71. How unpatriotic

Buy American, dammit, you hoser.












We own Harper, anyway... :P

[Canuckistanian]

109. Up until 30 years ago, American was all I could buy

We still have a inferiority complex about car manufacturing.

As a major builder of cars, we STILL have no car company to call our own.

It's a mystery to me. We have the engineering, manufacturing and marketing skills to do so.

Yet all we've been able to muster is the Bricklin, a disaster of a vehicle.



I remember that it was called the "poor man's DeLorean"

[DainBramaged]

66. My reply got canceled by the combined threads

But I'll simplify it for you. When the JAPANESE allow US the AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY to build cars IN JAPAN, I WILL change my opinion. But the chances of that ever happening are the same as my eyes turning blue.

[ForrestGump]

72. Japan

has issues...xenophobia, racism, misogyny, and everything else. And, as far as I can see, most of what it produces (as with much of its culture) is based more in refinement of ideas and products originated in other countries -- previously China, now the USA and Europe -- and they do it VERY well.

Japan has an awful lot of faults as a nation and culturally, in my opinion, but they sure know how to perfect design and manufacturing of technology-based consumer goods. And I suspect that the reason why US automakers don't set up in Japan might have something to do with outrageous costs (and, sure, I bet the Japanese would engage in measures to guarantee economic protectionism). I am equally sure that, if US automakers ever became a substantial presence in Japan, you'd be complaining bitterly about jobs being taken out of the country, no matter that much of the profit will (ideally) return Stateside.

[DainBramaged]

75. Your assumptions are completely wrong, but that's OK

I can't write poetry, you don't know how to build a car. You assume you know how I think, but that is something you will never learn.

Protectionism is the key word here, not costs, and they have been practicing it since they opened the first transplant assembly plant here decades ago. But what do I know??




:sarcasm:

[WriteDown]

79. If we had the same policies....

there are many here who would complain how our government was keeping these vastly superior cars (:sarcasm:) from being affordable in the U.S.

[DainBramaged]

84. You make perfect sense, but it will be ignored by those who love

their Japanese icons.

[sentelle]

96. but GM wont sell to me

Because GM wants me to get credit. I only pay cash for cars. And didn't you know, GMAC is the most profitable wing of GM.

With people leery of credit, maybe that's why GM is having issues.

Of course, GM is playing against American innovation. The japanese are good at incremental improvement. The americans are good at innovation. GM, however, prefers quarterly profits to innovation. That's why they spent 20 years pitching the same SUV's with mild cosmetic changes. Because R&D cost $$$, and money that goes to R&D, doesn't go to stockholders.

[WriteDown]

124. So if you walk into a dealership with a briefcase....

full of cash, they won't sell to you? What dealership are you going to? You may want to try another.

So you think the Japanese are not concerned with profit? GM has a ton of cars in their fleet, many on par with their Japanese counterparts. You act as if the Japanese have not tried to cash in on the SUV/truck craze. Ever see a 2008 Toyota Tundra. Dwarfs most GM trucks.

[DainBramaged]

134. It's called 'blinders"

ALL they see is the Peeus, they will not accept the fact that one of the largest (and longest made) gas pigs ever, the Land Cruiser, is made by Toyota since I think the 70s. But what do we know.

[ForrestGump]

149. The landcruiser is THE standard for working off-road vehicles around the world

The default vehicle for that used to be the Land Rover, the old and beaten up green or tan kinds you see in Born Free and whatever, but the Landcruiser quickly took over because it was the superior choice. Now Land Rovers are yuppie statusmobiles, and ones that I find very ergonomically unsound and mechanically and in every other way pieces of overpriced crap.

I grew up in the boonies in another country, an environment where 4WD vehicles were de rigeur as working platforms dating back to the earliest availability of land Rovers after WWII. In more recent years I've worked as a scientist in the back of beyond in tropical developing nations and, again, Landcruisers remain indispensable and the standard for work in such places. One field station I was hosted by had a brand new Land Rover that was donated by the European Union (a nice gesture, at least) and it was such a worthless piece of junk that it literally couldn't make it up one of the trails (admittedly very rocky and rutted, and fairly steep) into the rainforest and we had to go back to get a Landcruiser for the job. The pretty and pristine white Land Rover was used from then on only for grocery trips to town.

I'm talking about the real Landcruisers, the utilitarian vehicles that you see in abundance in backcountry areas elsewhere in the world (and, at least Down Under and in the Pacific, probably the next most ubiquitous vehicles in such areas would be various Subaru cars and utilities). In the US, these days, the only Landcruisers I see are the luxury kind, much bigger and probably heavier and well appointed with leather seats, CD, etc, etc, etc. They're an entirely different vehicle, and -- as with almost all SUVs in this country -- are undoubtedly serving for the most part in a mismatched role that exemplifies waste, the importance of perceived status, and several other unattractive hallmarks of current culture. They're still better than the similarly misused Land Rovers that tool about the suburbs, and certainly worlds ahead of the irredeemable piece of crap known as the Hummer, but they're not appropriate to the task or environment. The wilder world's fleets of Landcruisers, though, are perfectly adapted to their role and the environments in which they work. There is no better vehicle for that. They work hard for a living.

[Heywood J]

190. Most dealerships won't accept a briefcase full of cash (from experience).

A certified check or bank draft, however, most are happy to take. That's how I paid for mine.

[WriteDown]

80. If we had the same policies....

there are many here who would complain how our government was keeping these vastly superior cars (:sarcasm:) from being affordable in the U.S.

[ForrestGump]

83. So are yours, but I don't mind

a) I could probably build a better car than Detroit did for a long time

b) I don't really want to know how you think -- seeing your posts can be scary enough

[DainBramaged]

87. I think we're done for good

I didn't insult you, but you keep jabbing me becuse you think it's fun. What utter bullshit.


Piss off

[ForrestGump]

101. No, I keep 'jabbing' at you because you're wrong

and blindly lashing out with your own agenda, that's obviously very much contemptuous of Japanese vehicles (arguably most of them of higher design and build quality than major American counterparts).

Ignore me, if you like. I'll probably do it to you, if you don't, 'cos all I see from this is the same tired crap that not only is fairly delusional but so strident that it crosses way over jingoism and heads in to xenophobia. Don't PM me again, either, because you don't even make sense in the backchannels.

[DainBramaged]

105. I said piss off, in my PM too

you really don't know how to take no for an answer.

[ForrestGump]

107. Funny. I didn't know this was your forum.

And, given that you were the one who initiated the unwelcome PM exchange, your posturing here and there makes even less sense. Nothing that PM-ignore can't fix, though.

[sentelle]

100. thats not fair

US workers can build the best, most reliable cars in the world. US workers are motivated, and can work with less than any other car producing nation. Look at what is happening over at Tesla for instance.

The thing that limits the big three is not their workers, but their management. When the passion in the industry is not about driving and the Car, but rather about making enough quarterly profits to justify a bonus, regardless of the future, then the problems are with those who pray to Mammon.

[ForrestGump]

104. Sure

I should have clarified that by 'Detroit' I meant the higher-ups who dictate policy and approve designs and concepts, not the line and other workers. For that matter, US workers are integral to many foreign-brand cars available in the US now just as Mexican workers are to American-origin manufacturers and others.

[eggplant]

77. You're right, it *is* amazing what Google can find...

http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/global_operations/asia_pacific/japa.jsp

It seems that GM Japan is *assembling* the shiny new GM Cruze in their Kosai assembly plant! Who knew?

Does this amazing piece of information in any way change your opinion?

----

On edit: It seems GM has been building shitloads of cars there since 1970. They just hit the 15 MILLION mark in March of this year.

http://www.infibeam.com/blog/news/2008/03/29/suzuki_kosai_plant_achieves_15_million_units_of_automobile_production.html

So what was your point again?

[DainBramaged]

82. We'll wait and see if it comes to pass

I'm sure it will cause you to run right out and buy one (in 2011) for that reason alone.

:sarcasm:

[eggplant]

91. What's with all the attacks, anyway?

You have no idea what the next car I buy will be. I grew up in a strong Union-Yes family. My father was a union plumber for years until he went to law school, and then represented the building trades (while remaining a due-paying member) for decades. My sister represents many northern Ohio unions. Basically, you have no idea who I am or how I choose to spend my money.

You simply assume that because I call out out for your vitriolic bullshit that I somehow don't represent your interests. Well, I've got news for you. You do far more disservice to the industry you claim to defend than I do. All you do with your bile is turn people off. Surely you can't believe that anything you say will convince people who previously bought an import (or even a UAW-built non-Detroit brand) that they should now buy from Detroit.

The problem here is that you have painted yourself such a one-dimensional view of the world, that to admit that maybe, just maybe, you were a little over the top would require you to acknowledge that the world is a bit more complex than US vs Them, and that globalization makes so much of this discussion moot. But ranting at people you have never met, and calling them unAmerican is much, much easier, so why take the time to expand your view of the world?

Here's something to consider. All that hate you have bottled up inside? It's killing you, not us. Is that really what you want?

[DainBramaged]

94. Preach to someone else. You have no idea what I'm about

And you obviously didn't like getting called on buying American. Don't own a Domestic do you?? Talk about ranting.......

[eggplant]

97. Don't forget to ignore the points I made in post 80.

It seems GM *is* building cars in Japan, and has been for a long time. Care to comment on this?

And I consider my UAW-built-in-Indiana Subaru to be a domestic, yes. Why don't you? GM was part owner in the company at the time.

As for ranting, I've done nothing of the sort. I asked a few very specific questions which you really didn't answer. You have done nothing but cast aspersions on people you've never met. You have no interest in a serious discussion here. You are simply bigoted against the Japanese, and by association, anyone who might own a car with a Japanese brand name. You don't even attempt to hide this fact.

So, then, in the interest of having a *productive* conversation...

How do you feel about people who buy Detroit-branded cars built overseas and imported back to the US? Does that somehow bother you less, even though those cars aren't built with American (or even union) labor?

And how do you feel about Japanese brands assembling cars in the US with UAW labor for export back to Japan? Surely *that* is a good thing, right?

Oh, and how do you feel about all of those people driving German imports? Mexican? Canadian? You seem to only hate the people driving Japanese cars.

And finally, a bonus question. What about people who only buy *used* Japanese cars? Those people are exempt, right?

[DainBramaged]

106. I didn't ignore shit

First the UAW doesn't build cars for Subaru;

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/27/business/NA-FEA-FIN-US-Nonunion-By-Choice.php

Japanese U.S. automakers steer clear of unions


Many build factories in areas that already have a low average wage for the labor market, Saltzman said. That means factory pay looks great regardless of whether it approaches union standards.


Downham, who wore a faded green UAW jacket as he left work on a recent weekday afternoon, has worked at the Subaru factory for 13 years. He said he's seen too many changes to things like vacation time and sick pay that benefit the company, not the employees.

"I think, with a union, they'd have to stick to their word," he said.

Second, Since your entire premise is wrong, there is no point continuing this discussion with you.

[ForrestGump]

161. NOBODY owns domestics

since slavery was abolished.

And, besides, what part of "you have no idea who I am or how I choose to spend my money" are you failing to comprehend? Not that the poster's choices are any of your business. And not that you're going to be persuading anyone to see things your way with your delicate approach.

[ForrestGump]

85. Those sneaky japanese

Must read DU. They obviously did that just to annoy this character.

[sentelle]

98. isnt kosai

One of those old Daewoo plants?

I didn't know the UAW did work in a Korean mostly roboticised plant?

[eggplant]

102. What's your point?

It's a GM owned factory in Japan turning out, among other things, GM Cruze for the asian and european market. This is in direct conflict with DB's contention that "they" won't let "us" build cars over there.

[ForrestGump]

70. Stop it

[Tab]

47. "The name is a derivative of the word cruise,"

No duh.

No wonder they're having problems. They think we're frickin' idiots!

[DainBramaged]

52. Oh OK so you don't like the name, are you going to buy one?

I can guess without effort you aren't. What do you care what the name is. Avalon, Camry, Corolla, what significance do those names have?

God it amazes me how many American industry haters there are on DU, you should all be ashamed of yourselves for supporting imports. Some "progressives" you all are, jesus,.

[Tab]

56. Crawl back under your rock

until you grow a thicker skin.

Sheesh.

If the American car industry didn't build such crap for so many years, people might think differently. It's not necessarily the workers fault, but the industry is making cars either with planned obsolescence, crap design, or ecological indifference (read: SUV). They want to take that route, fine, but in a capitalistic world, the company that is ahead of the curve in discerning long-term user requirements will win, and Detroit whiffed on this one. No, I didn't care about the name, but the need to explain that it was a derivative of "cruise" was stupid and insulting. If they feel the need to explain it to their customers, then that's the customer's they'll get, the "gee, I wonder where that name came from" crowd.

No one said I hated American industry, but I don't care for shoddy American industry if we're going to keep a place in this world.

And what's with the "you all" stuff? Perhaps you'd be happier in another forum, maybe a "rah-rah-God-and-Country" forum that believes in the big Dubya and doesn't want to question anything? You'll never "progress" unless you're willing to question some things.

[DainBramaged]

61. What was the last American car you owned?

And I have a thick skin, and too bad if you don't like my reactions. It's ok for the Japanese import sympathizers to bash the shit out of me and my company and I shouldn't respond.

Right.


DU hates the US auto industry and US auto worker, and threads lie this prove it every day, as does the lack of participation in the labor threads.

[Occulus]

63. NONE of those things are the fault of "the workers"

These decisions aren't made by the line employees. This is the one relevant fact that poster you're replying to simply. does. not. get.

NOBODY on DU hates the workers in the auto industry, the people actually building the cars. But the ones making the decisions on which cars and trucks to build are most definitely at fault in large, if not almost total, measure for the industry's woes in the US.

I'm wondering if that poster is actually an auto industry manager or exec, or one of their hired flunkies. Look upthread- I was explicit in the opinion that it was managers and others at the top to blame, and well... look what that poster fed me in response.

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Sometimes lately, I log in and get the impression that it's opposite day or something....

[DainBramaged]

67. But it's OK for you to bash the industry

We are the industry, and you cannot separate the industry from the worker. Insult GM and you insult me.

[tledford]

192. That is absurdly reductionist. eom

[Tab]

68. I hadn't looked, but goodness

the thread is well commented on by said poster.

[ForrestGump]

73. Just as it's entirely possible to hate US airlines

but not the people who work in the trenches for them and have to deal with fallout from angry passengers over the airlines' increasingly unpopular, greed-driven policies.

[jmowreader]

191. Toyota likes to call its cars Crowns

Camry and Corolla are both variations on the Latin word for "crown." They also made a car called the Corona, and that was another word for crown.

I don't know what an avalon is, except I doubt the car is named for Frankie Avalon.

[ForrestGump]

99. When I get my Cruze, I'm taking it rite to the drive-thru

To be fair, cars from all over seem to be named with increasingly weird names. It's like they ran out of names quite some time back (though there were weird choices in the Good Old Days, even: calling a car 'Gremlin' wasn't too swift a move).

I mean, really: Ford Probe, Daihatsu Charade, Ford Flex, Acura Vigor, Honda Fit, Saturn Vue, Ford Aspire, Toyota Camry (don't get me wrong...had two of them, and love them, but what exactly IS a camry, or a corolla, or a celica?), Mercedes Bra Bus, and so on. The list goes on and on. Though, come to think of it, names like 'Avenger,' 'Fury,' and other earlier testosterone-based car names seem especially inappropriate in this age of road rage. And the Chevy Nova was sure a no-go in Spanish-speaking countries...




Don't get me started on Kia cars. No way would I want a car that has 'Killed In Action' on its tail. And Hummers plain suck.






Toyota Emina

[MindPilot]

132. The Ford Aspire was probably THE dumbest name ever.

The rhymes are so obvious. And the Chevy HHR...what the fuck does that even mean?

[Tab]

133. Except for marketing the Chevy Nova in Mexico

Classic marketing example of failing to do your research.

"Nova" means "won't go" in Spanish.

[TommyO]

165. Actually the two word phrase "no va" means it doesn't go.

"Nova" is a single word and does not convey the same meaning.

[Tab]

189. I know that

Having had enough high school spanish

But regardless, it was spoken as "no va", "va" being the conjugated verb to go, so "no va" means "doesn't go"

At any rate, they couldn't sell the frickin' car because of the name they were marketing it under.

[TommyO]

200. This is an urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp

[Thor_MN]

199. I'm fairly certain that I read that the Nova was never sold or marketed in Mexico

Sort of an urban legend of marketing...

[tledford]

193. I always thought, "Yes, this object ASPIRES to be an automobile." eom

[susanna]

210. LOL!

My husband says something similar: "It aspires to be a car."

You hit my funny button with that one. I'll share it with the dear one; he'll feel vindicated!

[sarcasmo]

74. I had a metro, great car for short drives and around town.

My Dad, a former GM worker talked me into one of those, they should modify those and bring them back, IMHO, although my Aveo is very similar only thirty miles to the gallon instead of close to fifty miles with the Metro.

[Texano78704]

81. A quarter of a century later

We get cars that are promising maybe 10 mpg higher than what "economy" cars were getting way back in the the late 1970's and early 1980's. Woo... hoo...

[lithiumbomb]

86. Metros were great

Yes they were cheap, but were well made and would last quite a while. The reason we don't see cars like this today is they are death traps by modern standards. The Metro weighed about 1600 lbs, the Ford Festiva (which I owned two of) weighed about 1700 lbs. Sure you got 40mpg, seats 4, cheap reliable transport. But they don't come close to meeting modern safety standards. They were low-tech basic transportation of the day.

And they _do_ make cars like this today for the US market. Chevy Aveo, Toyota Yaris, and slightly larger Honda Fit and Suzuki SX4. Mileage isn't as good on these newer cars as they weigh significantly more than subcompact hatchbacks did 20 years ago. They also pollute a fraction of the amount and have a lot more than the ~60hp the Metros and Festivas did back in the day.

[DainBramaged]

88. Yup, but don't let anyone know new cars are safer than the ones

from the 70's and 80's. We'll keep it a secret.

[WriteDown]

110. A lot of people don't realize how much weight....

modern emmissions and safety systems add to a car. Of course there were some models in the early 80's that got good gas mileage, but they didn't come close to meeting our current requirements.

[Kolesar]

123. 1990s Federal side-impact standards made cars heavier

There is a good reason not to buy a car that was made before those standards.

Does anybody car pool?

[LanternWaste]

128. a co-worker and I have been carpooling for about a year now.

I car pool-- but the way this thread is running, I'll most likely get metaphorically pilloried for trying to save money, not buying a car (American or foreign), and wind up on someone's ignore list due to the uncivil mind and presumptive guesses made against me.

But yeah-- a co-worker and I have been carpooling for about a year now. It's actually pretty nice too. He doesn't mind me drinking coffee in his car, and I don't mind him puffing a doober while he's driving. :)

[ContraBass Black]

153. When you ride with a partner, Bin Laden is in the back seat.

:P

[LanternWaste]

187. Heck, Bin Laden probably supplies

Heck, Bin Laden probably supplies the weed for the driver, with Juan Valdez next to him fixing up my coffee jones.

Are/were you a contra bass clarinet player?)

[PM7nj]

108. I hope it is better than the Cobalt.

I wasn't very impressed when I took it for a test drive.

[DainBramaged]

119. My 62 year old sister bought a black SS two years ago

took off the emblems and spoiler, had the pulley, headers, computer, intake and exhaust systems upgraded with the factory hot rod parts, and STILL takes it to Raceway park a couple of times every year.


She loves to spank the Honda's with their buzzy little mufflers when they play 'race me' at stoplights.

I guess you didn't buy a Cobalt then?

:rofl:

[WriteDown]

125. I think some posters should also google....

"the myth of VTEC". May open some eyes.

[MindPilot]

129. So a hopped up Chevy SS can outrun a Honda?!

Well color me purple and shave my nuts!! That must be one mean-assed race car!

How would it stack up against it's real competition like a 5.0 Mustang or a Z350?

[ForrestGump]

151. I know. Amazing, huh?

I have a vehicle with a vastly smaller engine that can leave any SS car looking like it's still parked. It's called a Kawasaki.



This means that I must very obviously have bigger gonads than this nutcase's sister, a comforting thought.

[PM7nj]

130. No I didn't.

I wasn't looking for a car to race. I was looking for a car to get me to work and back every day.

[DainBramaged]

131. Oh well...................

[snooper2]

144. So that's your problem...

You are so fixiated on "U.S." made vehicles you refuse to acknowledge anything different...

I see you didn't respond to my post above.... :rofl:

I guess if you dump enough money into it, the Cavalier, sorry, Cobalt isn't a total POS. Chuck Hemmingson is in 2nd currently with 143 points with a Subaru at 139 points in third.
Of course the Acura driven by Kristian Skavnes is in first with 155 points :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh, I'm reffering to the KONI street tuner challenge I'm sure you know ALL ABOUT :)





GOBAMA!

[DainBramaged]

146. Whatever

The Koni street tuner challenge is as popular as go karts, which means maybe once a year it gets on ESPN for filler. Let's talk about the NOPI series or NDRA.

http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/blog/archive/2007/08/28/one-champion-is-good-two-champions-are-great-b-three-champions-rock/?searchterm=dragster


And since I just noticed your previous post, I don't ride any more, but I only owned Harley's until I had to stop because of my health. Rice was NEVER part of the equation.

And yes I am fixated on UAW made vehicles, got a problem with that?

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ForrestGump]

157. Only 95%?

You're being charitable.

[ForrestGump]

155. Rice?

Oh, the old riceburners didn't do it for you? Jap crap? You Yank Wank.

Harleys have long been substandard motorcycles, and now -- as pretty as some can be with all the chrome and the little leather tassles, and even with improvements made in some lines after the disastrous AMF years -- most of their offerings represent nothing more than a brilliant triumph of style over substance. The recent marketing of Harley as an iconic brand, as Americana (they don't even need to put much thought into the bikes, 'cos people eagerly buy the image independent of the actual machines), was genius and is used as a case study in business schools. To find mechanical genius in motorcycles, though, you need to look elsewhere, primarily to the Land of the Rising Sun.

Rice is good for you.

[susanna]

209. Oh, I just love the SS.

It was my dream car as a teenager. Good on your Sis! Damn fine car.

susanna

[ContraBass Black]

141. When I drove a rented Cobalt sedan, I was disappointed by the headlights.

The lenses appeared to be clean and undamaged, but the luminosity was uncomfortably dull.

I eventually settled on the Mazda 3, but then purchased a Mazda 6 when I found a much better deal on it.

[DainBramaged]

145. Good job..........................

Keep the profits in America by buying a car made by UAW workers.


PS Ford owns a huge stake in Mazda, have for decades so you basically own a Ford!

[ContraBass Black]

150. I buy for quality, value per price, and suitability to my needs.

The Mazda Protege 5, 3, and 6 are the first American cars that I would favor over the Accord, Camry, Civic, and Corolla.

[high density]

170. FYI... The Mazda3 isn't American

It's a great car and an excellent value, but it's built in Hiroshima.

[ForrestGump]

181. Most of them are built in Japan, anyway

I guess it comes down to whether being in business with Ford makes them 'American' or not.

What a bunch of Wankels...

[PM7nj]

168. I got the Mazda 3 too!

I love it so far.

[high density]

169. I hope it looks better than the Cobalt

I can't stand the ass on that thing.

[DainBramaged]

172. So when you are driving you set up mirrors to look at the ass on your car?

Just wondering.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ohio2007]

179. lol, most likely worried about picking up ass when they see him comming nt

[Redstone]

176. Metros were the worst piece-of-shit excuses for cars since the Chevette and the Pinto.

Redstone

[ohio2007]

178. warning: when accelerating into traffic from an onramp, DO NOT push in the cigarette lighter

as a noticeable reduction in hamster power will be felt ;)
dunno if the Lordstown built Cruz will solve that riddle two years down the road from now.

India supposedly has a machine that will cost under $4,000 new. imo, it will never pass US safety inspections.

[Redstone]

180. Ah, the Tata Nano! It's a fascinating design, as long as you value your money over

your life, especially given the way traffic laws are ignored in most developing countries.

I'd spend the extra five grand to buy a Civic with airbags myself.

But I get to have that choice, and many people in India don't.

Redstone

[ohio2007]

182. So you've see that Indian "crustacean" ?

They say "speed kills" but buy the "looks" of those plastic matchbox cars, you can see it's a deathtrap.

I guess it helps the sales pitch if the population believes in reincarnation :wow:



recycled Wal-Mart shopping cart ?

[ContraBass Black]

183. Its still safer than a motorcycle,

Which is the current mainstream personal vehicle.

[Redstone]

185. That is indeed true. If Nano vs scooter was my choice, I'd take the Nano. Especially

when it's raining.

Redstone

[DainBramaged]

186. TATA safety

:rofl:

They bought Land Rover/Jaguar from Ford. I wonder how long before they renege and start building them in India? Or make them huge to carry 15 people? India DOES NOT require crash testing of their motor vehicles, therefore has NO standards.

:rofl:

Tata makes the most unsafe, least expensive cars in the world for the Third World market.

Tin cans with tires.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7423737.stm

[susanna]

197. Everyone does realize that airbags

add serious weight to a vehicle, right? That, in fact, vehicles get heavier and therefore less fuel efficient with all these "standard" safety features we as consumers have demanded over the years? This includes airbags, AWD, stability control, yada, yada, yada. You add these things, your mileage goes down. It's not even questionable.

For those who think there is a magic technological bullet, after 20+ years in the industry, I can tell you those of us who design and build vehicles shake our heads every day at people who like to think the laws of physics are alterable. But yet I listen to you all, and try to find bits of wisdom in a whole lot of opinion.

It isn't easy, and sometimes I have to respond or go nuts. Tonight's one of those times. Sorry. I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers, but that's life.

[JeanGrey]

204. Yup but I'm being told all this board that they are everywhere

and get 220,000 miles on them

[susanna]

208. If several people have told you so,

then your original blanket assumption was incorrect, or so I tend to think.

Just saying.

on edit: spelling