Gore makes major challenge: Electricity produced through Earth-friendly sources within 10 years

[DeepModem Mom]

Source: CNN/AP

WASHINGTON (AP) – Just as John F. Kennedy set his sights on the moon, Al Gore is challenging the nation to produce every kilowatt of electricity through wind, sun and other Earth-friendly energy sources within 10 years, an audacious goal he hopes the next president will embrace.

The Nobel Prize-winning former vice president said fellow Democrat Barack Obama and Republican rival John McCain are "way ahead" of most politicians in the fight against global climate change.

Rising fuel costs, climate change and the national security threats posed by U.S. dependence on foreign oil are conspiring to create "a new political environment" that Gore said will sustain bold and expensive steps to wean the nation off fossil fuels. "I have never seen an opportunity for the country like the one that's emerging now," Gore told The Associated Press in an interview previewing a speech on global warming he was to deliver Thursday in Washington.

Gore said he fully understands the magnitude of the challenge.

The Alliance for Climate Protection, a bipartisan group that he chairs, estimates the cost of transforming the nation to so-called clean electricity sources at $1.5 trillion to $3 trillion over 30 years in public and private money. But he says it would cost about as much to build ozone-killing coal plants to satisfy current demand. "This is an investment that will pay itself back many times over," Gore said. "It's an expensive investment but not compared to the rising cost of continuing to invest in fossil fuels."...

Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/17/gore-makes-major-challenge/

[fascisthunter]

1. wise and very doable

not only is it doable, safe and efficient, but it will create a whole new job market for our ailing economy.

[predfan]

2. Here's a start.......solar "groves" in America's parking lots.

Creating shade for autos, and electricity.........those installation jobs cannot, by the way, be outsourced.......those "carports" can also be set at optimum angles for sun collection.
just one example of something that doesn't intrude on anything, it just takes start up money that we seem to be able to come up with for Iraq.......

We know how to do this right now, we've just not had any leadership in the White House.

[Indenturedebtor]

4. That's a brilliant idea... did you come up with that? n/t

[predfan]

13. nah, I'm not that smart.......but google up " solar carports" and

you'll see an article about Kyrocera {spelling?} doing just that............

We're about 75 miles from the new VW plant just announced in Chattanooga, and I'm thinking we're about to become the epicenter of "green" America with the building of this plant, and this brand new North American automobile. Imagine, for example, one model was a plug in hybrid, and you could recharge nightly from your carport..........the technology's there now.

[Tesha]

57. Kyocera.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyocera

[knixphan]

33. bingo!!!

[LeftyMom]

61. They have a few at the mall here.

And free charging for electric vehicles.

[lonestarnot]

82. I think the government should sponsor $500 per house solar collection systems.

:P

[The2ndWheel]

3. Extracting and harnessing increasing amounts of energy for the benefit of a single species

Privatizing the profits and socializing the costs. Now we know why corporations do it.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

6. Enjoy your short stay....

I agree with your essential premise, but you seem more set on demeaning Al Gore than addressing the problem.

[Lukethebldr]

7. I'm not demeaning him

but it is true that right wingers often bring up his house and jet travel.

Is Al above reproach?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlGore-08.com]

10. 2006 was two years ago - - this is no longer the case

Please see my earlier post.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raster]

12. This very information made the rounds of the right-wing, hatchet job talk shows...

in fact, I think this is the VERY press release that was featured on everything from Flush Limpballs to Sean Insanity.

But no matter, because as posters below point out, this is no longer the case.

And I'm not trying to be rude or condescending, but five whole posts and you're ragging on Al Gore?

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay. BTW, what's your favorite pizza?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. I'm an astronaut.

Your nonsense goes straight to your credibabilitude.

[AlGore-08.com]

9. Actually, he doesn't travel by private jet and his home was retrofitted so that it's now

The most energy efficient home in the state of Tennessee. It took a long time to retrofit because they had to get a number of local zoning laws changed in order to do a lot of the retrofitting.

He has two major businesses - - a user generated cable company and a venture capital company that only invests in sustainable, green companies - - and a major charity which are all carbon neutral.

When he flies, he flies commercially. The few occasions where he has flown privately since he left office have been when he's hitched a ride with other people who were flying their planes someplace he had to go. His whole family drives hybrids and part of his standard speaking contract is that he has to be picked up from the airport in a hybrid. He travels by train when it's practical.

He's not perfect, but he comes closer to walking the walk than the vast majority of issue advocates.

[greenman3610]

16. remember Al Gore's house is also his business address

He is on the board of at least 2 multibillion corporations,
Google and Apple, also a partner of Kleiner-Perkins venture
capital firm, and has an interest in a TV network, and
his global Climate Project training program. He has a staff of at least a half dozen on site,
as well as Tipper's office, and staff, plus security people.
This is not an ordinary bungalow, nor is it
a vain Mac-Mansion - it is a multimillion dollar
place of business, that employs a number of people, as well
as a residence.
Since he's made all the green updates to the place, he is
now a good example for anyone.
The right wing talking point mentioned above is
pure bs, and the poster knows it.

[Maeve]

18. and here's the Snopes article

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

[WriteDown]

20. Interesting n/t

[Lukethebldr]

22. Snopes

While Al should be applauded for paying extra for "green" energy, his use is still extreme. no matter where his energy comes from, doesn't the utility have to replace the power he uses from a "non green" source.

Seems to me that he should downsize a bit, if only to improve his public image.

[Lorien]

26. His image is just fine. Only the Right Wing nutters are still saying

"Seems to me that he should downsize a bit, if only to improve his public image."

[Raster]

34. Goodbye, farewell, we're bidding you goodbye!

Enjoy the pizza!

[Uncle Joe]

46. Snopes also fails to mention that Al Gore's home was built in 1915, so Al and Tipper

took an energy hog off the market making it much more energy efficient. But they do operate businesses out of there so they would have a higher energy use.

On the other hand Bush's home is more contemporary; it was built in the 80s or 90s and is more energy efficient than Al's, I believe it uses thermal energy and yet Bush believes while energy efficiency is good enough for his personal use, the American People as a whole don't deserve it. By his policies and actions, he would rather keep the rest of nation addicted to oil and carbon based energy just so he and Dick Cheney's cronies can make mega bucks even at the threat of destroying life as we know it, so who's the real hypocrite?

Seems to me we as a nation would be far better off if people could focus on the forest instead of the trees. But some people would rather be caught up in the image and corporate media propaganda as opposed to the substance of his proposed policies and ideas, which would effect hundreds of millions of homes for the better.

[LanternWaste]

90. What's the precise and relevant ratio of wattage per square foot

"...his use is still extreme"

What's the precise and relevant ratio of wattage per square foot of home prior to it becoming extreme? What's the source for that?

(Unless you're simply saying what the talk show hosts told you to say. In which case, don't bother wasting either your time or mine with an answer...)

[blackspade]

28. This info is well out of date.

Also, the notion that he is a global warming alarmist, is laughable and the use of this statement by the "Tennessee Center of Policy Research" makes clear their right wing pro-corporatist anti-conservation agenda.

[Maeve]

30. Agreed, for the most part

I brought in the Snopes article in part to show the TCPR is not "nonpartisan" and not quite the 'fair source' the (former) poster was claiming.

[Lukethebldr]

21. BS?

I don't know that it is BS, I assumed it was true because the house was retro fitted after the original article.

It is a public relations problem for him.

[closeupready]

31. Absolutely. Al Gore is the real deal.

n/t

[WriteDown]

32. I think he has good ideas, but....

He is no Ed Begley Jr. That is the real deal.

[closeupready]

37. Wait - he's an actor, isn't he?

?? I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with his accomplishments. Is he a spokesperson for an environmental organization, or what has he done?

[WriteDown]

38. Yep, check him out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Begley,_Jr.

[closeupready]

39. Whoa, get a load of this:

>>The Begley home is a modest 1,585 square feet in size utilizing solar power and also uses wind power via a PacWind vertical-axis wind turbine; an air conditioning unit cooled by Greenway Design Group, LLC., and he pays around $300 a year in electric bills.<5> Though he is noted for riding bicycles or uses public transportation, he owns a 2002 Toyota RAV4 EV electric powered vehicle.<<

Gotta love that! I pay at least four times that per year in electric bills. :D

[humbled_opinion]

76. ahem...

You left out the part about him being a Multi-Millionaire...

Yes he talks the talk and walks the walk but he can afford too.... Sorry I can't i am an energy Slave...

Al Gore please release me from my shackles...

[Lorien]

25. His home has been remodeled to be eco-friendly

what have YOU done?

[ryanmuegge]

54. And they make a perfectly legitimate, rational case. He IS a hypocrite in this way.

All of those right-wing tabloid personalities are vile human beings, of course. All of the steps he takes to make his footprint smaller are commendable, but that still doesn't change the fact that he uses more carbon-based energy in a week than most people use in a year.


That said, I'm glad he came out with his challenge. Somebody needs to get serious about this right now.

[predfan]

19. I'm not sure what you mean.

Explain

[The2ndWheel]

29. Think of each species as a corporation

Then think of the planet as the government.

Or...

Think of each species as a nation. Then think of the planet as the UN.

When a corporation consolidates more power for itself, we yell about how power is in too few hands, and how CEO's take all the money. Well, as a species, when we take more of the energy from the environment, it's the same idea. Every species has its fair share of energy, that's why there are so many species. The more we take, whether it's dead energy(coal, oil, etc), or live energy(solar, wind, tidal), the larger the impact we have on the rest of life. We can't escape that. We also don't regulate ourselves. To think that we can is as ridiculous as thinking that Exxon can.

So we extract and harness more energy for the benefit of a single species(more power in fewer hands, in relation to the rest of life), and we say that that's a good thing. So does Exxon when it does the same thing. We act the same way a corporation does. We don't like limits. We will do whatever we have to, break down limits, eradicate limits, attempt to write laws impacting all other life to our benefit, in order to continue to grow. We are Exxon. We are Wal-Mart. We are Monsanto.

I'm sure every species would if they could(and when they try, they actually pay the price for it, where we push the problem into the future). Hell, Wal-Mart started out as a small business. I don't even know if we could act differently as a species.

Now, instead of mining under the ground, with coal and oil, we want to mine above the ground, with wind and solar. We want to mine the energy that helps regulate the planet(we don't like regulation). We could possibly screw things up even more doing that. It's not as if we'll stop ourselves from getting more energy. If we can power a global civilization with solar, wind and tidal power, we're not going to not use more and more solar, wind and tidal power. We will increase our use of those forms of energy, further increasing our impact environmentally.

We will privatize the profits, and socialize the costs.

[dysfunctional press]

44. umm...quick question-

"Now, instead of mining under the ground, with coal and oil, we want to mine above the ground, We want to mine the energy that helps regulate the planet(we don't like regulation). We could possibly screw things up even more doing that.

how would "mining the energy that helps regulate the planet" "screw things up even more"...?

it's not like using the wind for power takes the wind away from other things- same way with solar- we're not sucking in all the sun's energy, and leaving none for the rest of the planet...

how would wind, solar, even tidal energy creation screw things up even more...? :shrug:

[The2ndWheel]

52. Because we live in physical reality

Simply existing impacts the environment. The more activity we do, the greater that impact. Hunting with sharp sticks had an impact on the environment.

"how would wind, solar, even tidal energy creation screw things up even more...?"

We don't know how we could possibly screw things up even more since we've never used solar, wind, or tidal energy on a sustaining-global-civilization level before. We're not Jesus walking on water though.

"we're not sucking in all the sun's energy, and leaving none for the rest of the planet"

For now. The more we increase the efficiency of the extraction and harnessing of that energy though, the cheaper we make it. The cheaper we make it, the more we find ways to use it, and the more we need. Isn't the whole point to use as much of the sun's energy as possible? If that wasn't the whole idea, then the efficiency of solar panels wouldn't make a bit of difference.

Not that there is much choice. We won't voluntarily not do it. So we better hope that whatever the consequences of these actions end up being, that they're worth it.

[dysfunctional press]

59. so basically- it seems like you're full of shit-

you admit that you have no idea how it would screw things up, only that it would....

riiiiiight....:eyes:

me: "we're not sucking in all the sun's energy, and leaving none for the rest of the planet"

your reply: "for now..." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: are you for real? are you really afraid that if we use to much solar energy in the u.s. that there won't be enough left for europe and asia...?

btw- the reason that the efficiency of solar panels is important is that it directly affects the initial cost of a system- the ,ore efficient the panels, the fewer you need to do the same job.

[Zhade]

70. Uh, you clearly don't understand basic science.

It is literally impossible to soak up so much energy from the sun that it diminishes the total amount available.

Learn how fusion works, then get back to us.

[slackmaster]

17. He's right, of course

It should have been done 30 years ago.

[AlGore-08.com]

23. Gore didn't own the house 30 years ago. He bought it in 2002, I believe

Either that or 2001.

If you're being sarcastic, my apologies.

[slackmaster]

27. I think your reply was misplaced

It makes no sense as a response to what I wrote.

[Overseas]

24. I agree. We'd have a leadership position in the alternative energy market

if we had started 35 years ago when Jimmy Carter was wearing his darned sweaters and using solar panels.
But Jimmy looked silly in those sweaters for his fireside chats. Reagan came in and wanted us to go glam with polyester suits and giant shoulder pads like Dallas. Reagan said we should just play and forget about that uncomfortable conservation stuff. We had lots of oil and that climate change stuff was just stupid doom & gloom we didn't have to worry about.

And now people try to distract us from discussing these critical needs by telling us how wasteful Al Gore might be. Since Gore has a big house or uses a jet we don't have to worry about going green? Hey, he could be driving a Hummer (like Gov. Schwartzenegger was) and he would still be right about the need to develop more sustainable energy sources.

Since Gore wastes some energy too then we should just forget about reducing our dependence on the limited fuel source, petroleum ?

[knixphan]

35. My thoughts exactly!

[glitch]

40. You have just described the limits of a black-white world view perfectly.

"Since Gore wastes some energy too then we should just forget about reducing our dependence on the limited fuel source, petroleum?"

Ain't no green in black and white.

[Hugin]

36. Needless to say.

I agree with Al Gore.

[excess_3]

41. the US is not the whole world

try this in some smaller country

[Eugene]

45. The U.S. is the world's biggest consumer and polluter.

We have a big enough part of the problem to clean up,
and we've run out of time to take baby steps.
Also showing some leadership in making reforms will
take away the other big polluters' excuses not to
clean up their own act.

[fascisthunter]

48. no... we won't try it in some other country

and here's why?:

We live here and global warming is more important than your concerns for $$$$.

[fascisthunter]

49. (nt)

[knixphan]

55. seconded.

[Pavulon]

42. Without nuclear it is a pipe dream.

crack pipe. There is not enough wind, sun (remember it gets dark), or geothermal to run the grid. Duracell does not work on the power grid.

So we are back to nuclear. AP1000 reactors fit the bill.

Shit luck for Nevada, we already nuked them repeatedly, so a waste dump only seems fair.

[DCKit]

51. You're right. We can't replace oil and coal 100% by tomomorrow, so why bother?

Since we can't use (Duracell) batteries to store energy for night-time use, there's no use looking at the other options - molten salt, compressed air, hydraulic storage, compressed biogas or hydrogen. They're just not viable. I heard it on the Internets and the MSM.

Only Nnewcuelur can save us.

[Pavulon]

74. Yippers. Rather than re invent the wheel..

do what france and japan did. Spin up modern reactors.

The navy seems to be able to operate them..

[Tesha]

58. It's often said here at DU (and often, by you) but it's wrong.

Got *ANY* facts to back up your claim?

Tesha

[Pavulon]

75. Please tell me how to create 900MW/hr

to cover demand of smelting metal, industrial power demand (2nd and 3rd shift) when the sun is not out.

You CAN NOT store that kind of power with any technology currently in existence.

What facts would you like?

Fact ONE. US Navy operations of Nuclear Reactors.
Fact TWO. French power grid.

Lets see, I can keep going. Fact my power is generated by a reactor and is much cheaper than any other type of power. Zero carbon output.

[TankLV]

88. FUCK YOU PERSONALLY PAVULON! NO NUKES - EVER!

YOU WANT IT - PUT IT IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD ASSHOLE!!!

[dysfunctional press]

43. it would be best if homes could be made energy self-sufficient.

but that can't be allowed to happen. the exelon stockholders wouldn't like it.

[Uncle Joe]

47. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, DeepModem Mom.

[fascisthunter]

50. GOOD (nt)

[RandomKoolzip]

53. Man, positive threads about Al Gore sure do bring out the trolls, don't they?

[Political Heretic]

56. It would be nice if we were still in the Cold War so we could race the Russians

Everybody was so united about going to the moon so we could beat the godless communists...

[ohio2007]

60. Russia joins "biofuel race" = more food going into the tank

For years, countries dependent on oil have been searching for a viable alternative to petrol. As one of the world's biggest oil producers, Russia has stayed on the sidelines until now, but soaring gasoline prices have prompted companies in Russia to look at biofuel as an option.

Pyotr Svetlichny’s company is about to build two hi-tech biofuel plants - the first of their kind in Russia.

”The first plant will work on corn, and the second on wheat,” says Pyotr Svetlichny, Titan-Kuban director.


http://russiatoday.com/news/news/27723

Gore challenged them and they have jumped on the food for fuel bandwagon

meanwhile, the war on drugs has a positve spin

Food rise has Bolivia's coca farmers planting rice

SINAHOTA, Bolivia - Soaring food prices may achieve what the United States has spent millions of dollars trying to do: persuade Bolivian farmers to sow their fields with less potent crops than cocaine's raw ingredient.


The unlikely advocate for change is Bolivian President Evo Morales, who as leader of a powerful coca growers union fought U.S. crop-substitution programs for two decades.

But rising grain prices and food shortages have made him reconsider. He's now asking coca farmers to supplement their crops with rice and corn as a way of holding down coca production while helping to feed South America's poorest country.

U.S. programs have often banned the planting of coca — a small green leaf sacred to Andean peoples and the base ingredient of cocaine — as a condition for farmers to receive aid to try new crops.

snip



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080720/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/bolivia_coca_to_rice;_ylt=AoZmPKFI7RgJnJ6Y1bp5bWxn.3QA

They drive rice burners down there don't they ?

[YvonneCa]

62. Al Gore was on Meet the Press this morning...

...and did a great job making the case for his plan. My letter to MTP:



Thank you for your interview this morning with former Vice President, Al Gore. It was a good discussion, and an important topic for our country. While I have a lot of respect for both the Vice President and Tom Brokaw (whom I have watched for many years, and who did a good job representing the talking points for the other side on EVERY issue he raised), I completely agree with Al Gore’s position in this morning’s discussion.

I believe Al Gore to be a visionary leader. He looks at problems currently faced by our country and sees long-term, transformative solutions, and he sees the opportunity these problems also present to our nation.

On the issues of high gasoline/oil prices, our faltering economy, and our current shaky level of national security… he is able to see the connection between these events, and the solutions needed to address them simultaneously. He argues for big change…and he is right that now is the time to begin.

Our infrastructure (electricity grid, water systems, rail and freeway systems, many downtown areas, etc.) needs a major overhaul and modernization. We are threatened by the current system of energy in two ways…it may be manipulated or cut off (which affects both our economy and our national security, if we go to war to retain it), AND we are ruining our life sustaining planet. To use Al Gore’s words in “An Inconvenient Truth”… it’s our only home.

If we, as a country commit to the former Vice President’s plan, we will never again have to go to war for oil. Our national security will be enhanced. Our environment will also become more inhabitable for a longer period of time (and this is true, whatever you believe about global warming). Building the new infrastructure…transportation, energy grids, green buildings, new solar/wind industry, etc… will get our economy back on track because of the jobs it will create. It’s the kind of ‘stimulus package’ we really need to do the job.

But more important to our future than all that, I believe, we will once again have the chance to be seen as a leader for something positive in the world… and without that, our future looks pretty dim.

So I agree with everything Al Gore had to say this morning on Meet the Press. And, despite Mr. Brokaw’s best effort to sting him with questions about every right-wing talking point currently out there in the media and cyberspace, the former Vice President only made one mistake. It’s a statement with which I completely disagree. When asked about whether he was interested in a position in an Obama administration, or future position as President himself, Al Gore quipped that he had already been elected… but that he did not serve.

Mr. Vice President… I absolutely agree that you were elected. And what a loss for the country that you were not permitted to be in the White House. But I’ve been watching and listening to your many (mostly uncovered) speeches. You did serve after 2000… and, to this grateful American, you are continuing to serve today.

[YvonneCa]

63. Gore up in...

...an hour and a half on MSNBC.

[Uncle Joe]

64. That's good letter, Yvonne

I believe you nailed it. :thumbsup:

[YvonneCa]

69. Thank you...

...for the kind words. :)

[Tansy_Gold]

65. Make it feasible and affordable for individuals to make a start.

It seems to me there are two phases to a conversion from fossil-fuel to renewable-source electricity generation.

1. Build the clean-power plants (solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric) to supply the grid.

2. Encourage individuals to conserve and/or generate their own power.

It takes time to build power plants, and in the time it takes to build them, the rest of us are using up fossil fuels. Individual power conversions can happen almost as quickly as religious conversions, but they take money. Not everyone has it.

I live in Arizona. I have 1.25 acres soaking up sunshine 340+ days a year, and even when it's cloudy, we get some. But I can't afford to install a photovoltaic array on my roof or even a solar water heating apparatus. I wish I could! A friend said the other day (and he is often quite full of shit so take this with a large grain of salt) that it costs about $20k to retrofit the average 2000 sq ft house in Arizona. In the current economy, a lot of people either don't have it or don't dare gamble by going into debt for it.

Someone upthread -- a naysayer -- said there aren't enough batteries to store power during the night. IIRC, there are processes by which excess power generated by individuals can be transferred to the grid (effectively running your meter backward) so that non-generating individuals (including businesses, etc.) can utilize it. This allows the generating plants to cut back during daylight (usually peak hours) and operate more at night, thus evening out (pun intended) generating capacity usage.

Increased individual power production can facilitate conversion by pulling at least some carbon-based plants off line quicker.

Conversion of multi-family complexes ought to be easier and more cost effective, with the right incentives. Again, the more small conversions, the easier it is to effect large-scale switch.

Those of us who are old enough to remember the Carter initiatives of the 1970s know that they worked, and we were in fact making substantial progress toward not only oil independence but also toward green power. That we ended up relying more on nuclear and coal as fuel for power generation is less the fault of Jimmy Carter than it is the failure of the Reagan and Bush administrations to build on Carter's foundation.

We've had the technology for over half a century. And we've known about what's come to be known as "peak oil" for at least that long, too.

A few months ago, in connection with another DU discussion about energy, I went looking for an old friend. With google's help, I found him --
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-297681774672439227

"Our Mr. Sun" is a one-hour television program produced by Bell Telephone to launch their "Bell Science" series in 1956/57. Although some of the cartoons are simple compared to 21st century computer generated animation and the traditional religious underpinning and blatant sexism are dated and almost offensive by today's standards, much of the science remains current and definitely appropriate to today's conditions. Most important, though, is that even in the midst of 1950s post-war prosperity, a major corporation was willing to fund and produce a program designed for the masses that suggested we were on the wrong road. This was the era of the Edsel, of V-8s, of the new Corvette. The interstate highway system was under construction, and suburban sprawl was seen as a good thing. Energy consuming appliances were being invented and marketed aggressively. And even so, the warning was made.

Imagine what would have happened if we'd followed some of the suggestions put forth by the characters portrayed by Frank Baxter and Eddie Albert. Well, we didn't. We lost 50 years that we can never get back. We now have Al Gore bringing us essentially the same message. I'm not sure we can afford to ignore that message a second time. We may not get a third chance.


Tansy Gold

[earth mom]

66. This thread proves that DU is full of a bunch of freeper rethuglicans!

Only 20 recs and a bunch of hate filled disgusting posts that smear Gore!

Before the primaries this thread would have had at least 100 recs and glowing support for Gore.

It's obvious now more than ever that TRUE dems have been driven from this place.

What a sorry sight.

[fascisthunter]

68. I Believe That is Correct

[humbled_opinion]

72. So are you saying....

Lets not have reality play any part in the debate lest just all grab the Al Gore Rose colored glasses....

Its fantasy... Yes we need to do something... but its gonna take a long time and what we need is an answer now...


LOWER THE COST OF GAS....

Unless of course you are so elitist that 4.25 a gal gas doesn't impact your grocery list

[fascisthunter]

73. Don't try to put words in my mouth

nice try... buh bye.

[Uncle Joe]

87. There is no answer "now" and if somebody tells you otherwise,

they're the ones wearing rose colored glasses.

In my opinion Al Gore's plan is the best plan, sometimes there just isn't an easy way out but there is a smart way out and Al Gore has latched on to it.

He takes three dysfunctional dynamics in to account all of which feed off each other and of which have placed us into the perfect storm that we're riding in now.

1. The global warming climate change crisis.

2. The energy crisis.

3. The national security crisis.

The only way out is to break that equation and I'm most confident in Al Gore's leadership ability to do so.

[4dsc]

77. Most Du'er are in denial about there future

Most DU'er are not unlike the majority of American's that believe our little dream world can go on forever with limited resources.. Boy are they in for a little surprise..

[neverforget]

80. Ain't that the truth!

[daleo]

67. A wingnut relative was going on about Gore's electric bill

I guess this is the talking point in rightwing cyberspace/talk radio. Gore must be hitting a nerve.

[humbled_opinion]

71. Exremely visionary however,

Not practical.... I live in a 2k sf home. My avg KW usage is 30KWH per day... it would cost me nearly 40k to have a solar roof installed that would save me 60 percent on my usage. The ROI would take 40 years... I will be dead....

Until we have a Manhatten Project on energy, this problem will not be solved. Everyone will continue to use Oil because Oil is what powers us...period end of story...

there are over 150 million autos on the road in the U.S. 99 percent of them use Oil even if you can convert people over to a reliable, feasible, affordable, alternative which currently doesn't exist at 10 million per year that still takes 15 years to get people off oil...

i.e., people are not going to get a free hybrid car from the govt... I dont know about you but i have to rely on my car to get to work as most of us do... So lets talk conservation but lets also talk reality we need to do everything possible to lower the price of gas and that includes drilling in our own backyard.....

The gas price hits those of us in the Lower income bracket the hardest... I care about the environment but I care about putting food on the table for my kids more...

[Tansy_Gold]

78. Drilling in our own back yard won't bring lower gasoline prices

any sooner than any of the other projects mentioned.

What's needed is a comprehensive plan on the part of each individual as well as the various elements of the economic infrastructure. None of it is going to happen over night, not even if we drilled in ANWR, off the coast of Florida, and in everyone's back yard.

But we accomplish nothing if we don't even start. If we don't even try. If we give up because we can't have everything at once.

If the price of gasoline goes up, and your income doesn't, you either have to drive less or cut the budget somewhere else to pay for the gas. This is basic. It can mean anything from lowering the temperature during heating season, raising it during cooling season, cooking less or more efficiently, changing light bulbs, etc., etc., etc., etc.

The answer is NOT in spending our time, money, energy, and HOPE in finding more and more and more fossil fuel supplies. They aren't there. And even if they are, they're more trouble than they're worth in terms of global warming, health concerns, etc., etc., etc.

People who won't even try to be part of the solution remind me of my son (now almost 31) when he was little. Impatient as hell, if he couldn't master a skill on the first try, he'd throw a fit and give up. He had the distinct disadvantage of being 17 months younger than his sister, and at age three or four, that's a big difference in skill set. He experienced a LOT of frustration, and we experiencd a lot of his fits. But eventually he learned that in order to accomplish something, he had to at least try. Whining wouldn't get it done, sulking in a corner with his lower lip stuck out wouldn't, and neither would having a temper tantrum. We got so used to the lower lip routine that we invented The Lip Bird, who would come and perch on that outthrust lower lip and "poop on your lip if you don't pull it in." The lip got pulled in, he came out of his sulking corner, and addressed the problem. Whether it was riding a bike, playing a video game, or learning how to write his name (not such a small feat for a left-hander), he found out he had to make the effort.

Behaving like a spoiled four-year-old, which is what far too many gas-addicts in this country are doing, is not going to get us off the dependency merry-go-round. We don't need a new and bigger fix of petroleum; we need to get off the sauce altogether. It may take time, but we have to start. It might as well be now.

[humbled_opinion]

79. agree....However,

In the mean time ... why can't congress take control of the Oil and partion it out fairly so that those of us that can't afford it can still get to work....

I call for a national welfare system on Gasoline like food stamps... If my income falls below a threshold say a family of 4 making 40k per year gas stamps should be given so that I can still get to work without having to take milk out of my kids cereal bowls....

What I get tired of is all the rich asses out there who spout about alternatives to oil but could still afford gas if it was $20 a gal....

[Tansy_Gold]

81. The logistics of such a policy would be enormous

A "national welfare system" for gasoline on the order of food stamps would require the construction of a bureaucracy that would treat only the symptom, not the underlying disease.

I understand that you're looking for a solution to your personal dilemma, but the extreme policy shift you propose is only an enabling mechanism that does nothing to reduce your (personal) consumption of oil/gasoline. I also understand your anger toward "the rich" who could afford $20/gallon gasoline. Unfortunately, the creation of an additional layer of enabling bureaucracy won't affect "the rich" nearly as much as it will affect the rest of the middle and working classes.

Besides, from what I can see, Gore's proposal/challenge has very little do with gasoline prices but rather with the much larger picture of the impact fossil fuel consumption for electricity production has on global warming and the global economy. It's not about how much Americans pay for a gallon of gas.

The point is, of course, that we are paying now for the follies of two generations or more past. Many of the European nations where a liter of gas costs almost as much as we pay for a gallon have also developed efficient mass transit systems, have nurtured neighborhoods and urban centers rather than sprawl, and have fostered a sense of community rather than the isolationism/individualism of "one man, one automobile" in the American model. Sadly, some of the architects of today's crisis are no longer with us and we can't haul them into the court of public opinion and say, "ASSHOLE, THIS IS YOUR FAULT! FIX IT!" Ain't gonna happen. We have to deal with reality, like it or not.

So I think it's both unfair and a bit petulantly selfish to demand that self-defeating and counter-productive policies be instituted to benefit, well, to benefit you and keep you from having to make hard choices or changes in your lifestyle. IN THE LONG RUN, policies such as some of those Gore proposes will make life better for ALL of us, and that's what I think we need to focus on.

And if you have children still eating cereal, you have a much longer future ahead of you than I do in which to look at that long-term big picture. For me it's grandchildren, and I'm far more concerned about their prospects in ten, fifteen, thirty years than I am about the price of gas next week.

But then, that's me.


Tansy Gold, who has never made more than $20K a year in her entire life so don't you be callin' her "rich"

[humbled_opinion]

83. Lucky you....

Sorry can't, won't and don't subscribe to your views.... my family comes first .... F the planet...

[Tansy_Gold]

84. Ah yes, a member of the "me, me, ME!" generation

And probably one of the first to blame us boomers for the mess!

"GIMME WHAT I WANT!"

Spoiled fucking brat.

Ya know, our generation at least made an ATTEMPT to do something. And Al Gore, whom you so roundly criticize and snarkily ignore, is a member of that generation. Are we "the greatest"? Probably not. One would have to define the criteria for that label.

And if our parents, the generation that went through the Great Depression (notice how these days we have to qualify it?) to become the "greatest" generation, spoiled us a bit so we didn't have to go through what they did, at least they gave us a sense of proportion.

Some of us, on the other hand, must have failed, because we brought some brats into the world. Oh, I'm not exonerating us, or our parents, but at least they tried to raise us with some sense of community and responsibility, and we tried to implement it.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who says "ME FIRST AND FUCK THE PLANET" doesn't belong on DU.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but I'm sure you won't be.

And you'll be the very first DUer I've ever put on ignore.

[humbled_opinion]

85. LOL ...

and you wonder why some Democrats get labeled as elitist... You obviously don't live in the real world... you and Al probably do share a lot more in common then Al and I do.... i.e, money. If you were a realist you would understand that gas prices and getting people to work is the most important issue... Stop using emotion to guide your thought process use common sense....

I applaud Al Gore for doing everything that is in his power to go green.... What I am talking about it that going green is not realistic for people at my income level... If the price of gasoline is not impacting your grocery bills then you obviously can't "feel my pain" so ignore me all you want but i am the hard cold reality of the situation. Congress must act to lower the price at the pump anything less is hyperbole at best.

[marshall]

86. Will the earth even be around in ten years?

I'm not making any long term plans.

[fed_up_mother]

89. Not doable in ten years

A new "grid" for moving this electricity will have to be put in place. We're talking about solar farms in the southwest, and wind farms on the plains, I think. Unfortunately, that's not where the majority of the population resides.

I heard some "talking heads" on tv discuss this i in the last couple of days. It's an ambitious project, and ten years won't do it.

[Uncle Joe]

91. "Talking heads?"

Which talking heads, do we have any names or are these the same "talking heads" that enabled Bush to power?

If they're the same pundits that exclaimed how important it was to choose a President by your desire of having a beer with him, they would never believe it could be done, they're too drunk with power.

As for the electricity I suspect it could be wired to the cities, that's the plan, the way I understand it.