Exiling the Happy Meal

[WriteDown]

Source: WSJ

Despite its health-crazy reputation, parts of Los Angeles are plagued by obesity rates that rival any city in America. Now, the city may join a growing roster of local governments aiming to put their residents on diets by cracking down on the fast-food industry.


In an effort to fight obesity, Los Angeles is proposing to ban fast food restaurants in one neighborhood, tapping into a tougher attitude toward fast food.
Jan Perry, a Los Angeles city-council member, is spearheading legislation that would ban new fast-food restaurants like McDonald's and KFC from opening in a 32-square-mile chunk of the city, including her district. The targeted area is already home to some 400 fast-food restaurants, she says, possibly contributing to high obesity rates there -- 30% of adults, compared with about 21% in the rest of the city. Nationally, 25.6% of adults are obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

While some cities have bans on new fast-food establishments, they typically are for aesthetic reasons or to protect local businesses. Ms. Perry's initiative seems to be a rare instance in which a major city brings health issues into restaurant zoning. The fast-food ban would last a year, although Ms. Perry hopes to make it permanent. On Tuesday, a committee will make a recommendation on the measure before sending it on to the full city council for a vote....



Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121668254978871827.html?mod=yhoofront

---

This was easy to predict.

[meegbear]

1. I thought everybody was beautiful, healthy and tan in LA?

That's how you can tell the residents - the fat ones are the out-of-towners.

[Juneboarder]

7. Let's not be stereotypical now...

Obesity, at times, can be a difficult issue to control and to say that the "fat ones are the out-of-towners" is just wrong and insensitive and unfair to those that DO live in California. We accept all here in our lovely state :)

[meegbear]

9. As someone who grew up obese, I know ....

I've been to LA, I was in the audience for The Price Is Right last March, and I think I was the fattest guy in town.

[NashVegas]

48. "Nobody Walks In LA"

[enid602]

51. walkable?

Unless you happen to live in ELA, West Hollywood, Hollywood, Echo Park, Silver Lake, Westwood, Brentwood, Venice, Los Feliz, Sta Monica, Manhattan Beach, Belmont Shore, Downtown Long Beach, Studio City, Boyle Heights, Sunset Strip, Miracle Mile or other walkable areas. LA also has 700 miles of subway, elevetaed, light rail and commuter trains.

[meegbear]

53. Walking in LA-AHH!

Nobody Walks in LA.

[Cronus Protagonist]

62. I walk to the gym every morning

And I walk to the cafe, to the bar, to the restaurants. I also walk to the park, to SavOn pharmacy and the bank. I walk to my Yoga classes, and I cycle at night all over the city when the traffic has lessened.

Some people walk in Los Angeles. In fact, quite a lot of us do.

[heliarc]

138. And that's exactly what white LA locals

think of the Latino communities who continue to walk and ride buses in Los Angeles despite the institutional campaign against them... White LA locals generally call them "nobodies." I hear that kind of "joke" at work at least once a week. That's the way its been at least.

[Spouting Horn]

152. What do the Latinos in LA

think of the whites there?

[gateley]

2. "They" wouldn't care about the level of obesity in Americans

if it didn't affect the insurance industry negatively.

That being said, something about banning food businesses - even crappy food businesses -- disturbs me.

[WriteDown]

3. You could be right....

I have to wonder if it is really worse to eat a big mac than go to some French restaurants and eat a very creamy, rich dish. I do not eat fast food often, but sometimes I just need a burger.

[gateley]

5. And sometimes I need some really greasy fries to go with that burger! :-) nt

[heliarc]

11. balderdash

The amount of preservatives alone is a reason to choose the creamy dish over the big mac...

French cuisine is very often rich and features oils and fats, but more often than not, the oils aren't homogenized and therefore can be broken down by the body much more easily and in many cases help with cholesterol.

French food isn't all pomme frites. And portions are what it's really about... You rarely accompany your creamy Gratin with a mountain of oil drenched fries and a 32oz coca-cola. You would drink a glass of wine or have a side of cooked vegetables.

Sometimes I need a burger too, but I'll buy mine at In n' out before I go to McDonald's. I know the potatoes are fresh cut, and the ingredients are fresh.

[WriteDown]

23. Transfats have been around since...

the early 1900's. A common date in the 50's was a burger and fries and a malted. The difference was that the burger and fry portions were smaller. Note that the adult meal at McDonald's was equal to today's Happy Meal. I love fries cooked in shortening and love coolwhip as well. I just don't eat it often. If I had my choice though, I would get my fries fried in beef tallow.

A lot of the reason that Europeans have stayed extremely thin is the level of smoking. Seems like every time I am in France, people are literally eating at the same time as smoking a cigarette.

[aspergris]

27. I know a few bodybuilders

who use nicotine patches (all the benefits of nicotine without the smoke ) :) to help them during diet phases.

I prefer Ephedrine/Caffeine stack myself.

But again - my choice.

In bulking phases, I sometimes eat upwards of 5k calories per day.


B0000000ya! Double quarter lb'er with cheese

[ryanmuegge]

75. Damn. What about the bun?

I mean, do you stick primarily with a high-protein diet?

[aspergris]

88. When I am in bulking phases

At times, I will eat a LOT of carbs as well.

Remember, no hormone is more anabolic than insulin.

Seriously. Many bodybuilders also use insulin to help shuttle nutrients post workout. Dangerous if they don't know what they are doing.

I , regarldess of diet phase, try to get at least 150 gms of protein - iow, 600 kcals of protein.

If I am dieting to make weight, I might be only eating 2k calories, so protein will be about 1/3 to 1/2 of my total calories.

Otoh, if I am eating 5k+ I might eat only 1/3 in protein, but that works out to be about 400 gms of protein.

Generally speaking (emphasis on generally), I eat simple carbs (think quick gastric emptying) immediately during and post workout. Complex carbs at other times.

But I have, on occasion, eaten the Double Qtr Lb'er with cheese, two apple pies, large fries, and diet coke meal.

:)

[aspergris]

25. exactly

you exercise free choice.

that's the point. govt. has no authority to protect people from their own bad decisions, especially when it's clear that people CAN choose to do without McD's every day.

choice. it's what's for dinner

[heliarc]

104. I don't have more choices.

if every corner is occupied by some horrible franchise, but I definitely agree with your point. Governance has no authority to protect us from ourselves, but we have entrusted out representatives to protect us from many other unhealthy possibilities. I'm sure there were people who liked those Potato chips with olestra in them... that doesn't mean companies should be allowed to keep producing it.

[ryanmuegge]

77. I hadn't considered that aspect.

I'm astounded that people will drink all of that high fructose corn syrup (42 grams every 8 ounces in Coke). I can't believe that people don't realize what they're doing to their bodies.

[knixphan]

150. agreed -

We need to get back to a label-reading mentality...

[Bake]

121. Unless, of course, you can't AFFORD the fancy French restaurant in LA

Bake

[heliarc]

124. I'll be the first to ask for affordable french cuisine...

but the frank truth, is that there are just as many affordable options in quality food that offer healthy options. It may be that the biggest problem is our reliance on brand recognition... and absurd FDA regulations that have outlawed any number of wonderful foreign food production practices that involve cheesemaking, and meat curing... making imported substitutes VERY expensive.

I know a great relatively cheap french place Downtown in the Garment District... Angelique Cafe You should try it.

Or in any number of other cuisines... like mexican (go to the central market downtown, or to Chinatown)... Though the unfortunate truth about cheap mexican food here is that it is very unhealthy IMHO.

But you are right... nothing is cheaper than cooking at home (I assume this is what you meant by "Bake"... After working in Spain for 2 months before the Euro was Spain's currency, I had the pleasure of a very strong dollar and an inordinate number of delicious options...

Returning to the states, I HAD to learn how to cook to keep eating that well and still afford it.

[Bake]

127. Bake's what my friends call me; have for years.

It's close to my name; nothing to do with the kitchen (except that I like to EAT!).

Bake

[heliarc]

128. Oh...

Nice to meet you Bake! :)

[Bake]

134. Likewise!

:hi:

Bake

[ryanmuegge]

72. The Big Mac isn't worse than that, I'm sure. In fact, it may even be healthier.

Any time you eat out, it probably isn't going to be healthy (at least where I'm from, the reasoning is: who would pay good money to go out and eat to get something that ISN'T going to be bad for you - i.e. taste good?). I don't see how fast food is worse than most sit-down restaurant food.

It's all personal choice. You can eat healthy at McDonald's: get a grilled chicken with only lettuce and no fries (maybe even sans the bun). You can eat healthy anywhere, but most people choose not to. People pay more money per serving than what they can buy at a grocery store to get food that tastes good, period.

[heliarc]

129. I don't quite know how you can support this.

Of course there are an infinite variety of restaurants, but most don't encourage you to eat an 800 calorie burger with 500 calorie fries, and a 1000 calorie refillable soda...

Its just not the case.

On the other hand, the portions for most sit down chains (which are really no different from traditional fast food... by this I mean Olive Garden, Cracker Barrel, Applebees, Red Robin, Cocos, Denny's and the like) are enormous, and simply shouldn't be considered any better ... you are right.

But when I go out, I'm not looking for unhealthy food. I'm looking for tasty food. Why does tasty food have to be bad for you?

And you can't really eat healthy at McDonald's... the food is full of so many chemicals and preservatives it makes my stomach turn. I ask for a grilled chicken and they will invariable slather 3 tablespoons of mayo on it.

There is a weird assumption in this thread that either French food is all creamy (which it's not) and that somehow good tasting food is bad for you. Just consider the penultimate Pixar film whose namesake Ratatouille is a vegetable stew made from Zuchinni, Tomatoes, onions herbs and eggplant, and often served with rice... Match that with a cheap table wine, and you have french food that is probably more common than any other, and it's healthy.

What I find is that most food in the US (regional or ethnic foods aside) is bland, greasy and served in huge portions. And this is true across the board. People in the US value quantity over quality. This unfortunately has carried over into fruit and vegetable production too. Flavorless beefsteak tomatoes are preferred because they're big, and Cherry tomatoes are less popular because they're more trouble... but they taste better.

I'm much more satisfied cooking at home with more/better herbs and spices and smaller quantities. Or saving my money to eat out and find tasting menus that serve complex and flavorful food in much smaller portions.

Some people might find that elitist or snobby, but I find that I have to find better restaurants, because otherwise what I'm eating at home is better than what I'm getting when we go out.

[JeanGrey]

130. You don't have to have three tablespoons of mayo on ANYTHING.

Just ask for it plain. And you can eat healthy at McD's. They have salad and other possibilities. Not to mention that a lot of people don't drink 1000 calorie soda. Ever hear of diet coke?

[heliarc]

136. Diet coke or nasty lemonade?

You call that an option? Diet coke has caffeine in it too... Your only non caffeinated and non sugared option is the nasty dyed lemonade.

McDonalds claims not to use preservatives in its salads, but Supersize me counters...

http://lo.karloba.at/postcomments-tid-2452.htm

<clip>

"Several salads have either cilantro lime glaze, or orange glaze added. Along with many of McDonald’s sauces, both the cilantro lime glaze and the orange glaze contain propylene glycol alginate. While propylene glycol is considered "GRAS" for human consumption, it is not legal for use in cat food because the safety hasnt been proven yet <10>. Proplene glycol is also used "As the killing and preserving agent in pitfall traps, usually used to capture ground beetles" <10>. <clip>

[JeanGrey]

146. There is nothing wrong with diet coke. It sure beats non diet.

[heliarc]

147. There's caffeine in Diet Coke, and I can't drink caffeine

duh.

[JeanGrey]

148. I meant for most people. Duh.

[booksenkatz]

6. Agreed

Ban HFCS first. It's virtually impossible to buy food products in this country that don't contain that crap.

Not all of us have the time, talent and funds to plant, grow, harvest, and process 100% of our own food from scratch.

[aspergris]

13. nor do you need to

You simply need to take time to read the labels, pay attention to what you buy, and make informed choices.

I am a former personal trainer, and a competitive strength athlete. Friend of mine, and person I train with, just made the olympic team,and she has to be very cognizant of what she eats too. It's called responsibility and discipline.

But it's about CHOICE. Govt,. has no right to paternalistically step in, ban fast food (or whatever) and be our "deciders"

it's authoritarian, nannystate, fascist crap.

Govt. aint my daddy, or my mommy. I make my own frigging choices, and I have lived in the hood before, and I made my own choices then.

[booksenkatz]

41. If only the healthier foods were not so expensive

I'm educating myself, believe me, but it's frustrating to see that the healthiest foods are almost invariably the most expensive. For those of us on a strict budget, that's the hardest aspect to balance. I wish there were a way for the food industry to GIVE those of us with limited funds more choice. When price is the FIRST consideration in food shopping, what should one choose?

In the meantime, I'm learning to grow my own.

[aspergris]

43. I agree

and it sucks. To some extent it's inevitable because healthier foods can't be subjected to cost saving measures like mass refinement, and the addition of preservatives (which makes transport and storage and economy of scale cheap), and fillers (which are cheaper than the good stuff).

I grow a lot of stuff myself. I live in suburbia, but 1/;3 of my backyard is a garden. that helps.

I also ate McD's yesterday! Bacon cheeseburger.

[crimsonblue]

73. on a per serving basis

a bag of potatoes is cheaper than a large fry at mcdonald's. As is making your own burger at home. If you can't afford fresh vegetables, canned veggies, such as green beans and corn, are perfectly healthy and affordable choices. It's a cop out to lament that you can't afford to eat healthy.

[booksenkatz]

92. We *do* eat healthy at our house

but we have to spend hundreds of dollars a week on groceries to achieve that goal. It's frustrating. I buy mostly organic and cage-free/free-range products because I think they taste better, and it's my belief that they are a more responsible choice than non-organic products. But that choosiness dooms us to high grocery bills. With fruits and veggies, we shop the farmer's market as often as we can, to support our local farmers, but it often costs a little more to do that. I enjoy salads, and those don't come in a can. On the whole, it's quite a feat these days to feed a family cheaply in a healthy and environmentally responsible manner, and I applaud those who are able to manage it. My son wants to go vegan -- if I could get my husband to go that route, it would definitely save some money (not to mention the health benefits)!

[JeanGrey]

100. Actually, canned foods are not healthy - they contain a ton

of salt. I have been transplanted and now have cancer and serious edema and my doctors say I should eat NOTHING that comes from a can or package. Even if it's "low sodium" they load it up with potassium.

[crimsonblue]

114. well for normal people

canned food is fine.

[JeanGrey]

116. If you don't mind all that salt. Look at how much sodium is in

soup. It isn't healthy.

[LostinVA]

154. I hate this "nany state" label thrown arround whenever the Gov't does something good

Not everybody is educated on nutrition, and trans fats and HFCS are ONLY conveniences for corporations -- not necessary.

[pop goes the weasel]

160. then regulate those things

They aren't a necessary component of fast food.

And I rather doubt that most of the people who think they are educated on nutrition are as informed as they think they are.

[aspergris]

4. nanny state crap

It's not about mcdonald's, fatty french restaurants, or anything else but people's own PERSONAL choices about how much they eat, and their diets in total.

Perry is a piece of big government, authoritarian garbage.

[depakid]

8. Ever try to "choose: to find healthy food in the inner cities?

No?

Of course not. People who spout libertarian hogwash don't live in the reality based community. They'd rather sit back and take potshots at those who try improve the lots of those who do.

In this case, BY PROVIDING THEM WITH OPPORTUNITIES to make healthier choices.

[aspergris]

10. Yes. Don't assume about me. That's prejudice

I spent a good portion of my life living in the hood.

I have no problem with PROVIDING people with opportunities. That's AFFIRMATIVE action. I have problems with BANNING McD's etc. which is authoritarian, bordering on fascism, garbage. There is a huge difference between increasing choice vs. using the power of the gun (govt) to enforce bans and limit choice

Providing people with choices is fine. Feel free to open up a health food restaurant, for example.

But don't take away FREE CHOICE.

You are totally prejudiced. You assume because I support free choice (to choose McD's or brown rice), that I have never lived in the inner city. I lived in a very poor neighborhood for years, and worked there too.

I can't stand when people make bigoted assumptions.

Anyway... this is authoritarian, nannystate, paternalistic crap. "Oh, the poor people are too stupid and a slave to their desires, so we have to protect them from EVIL MCDONALD's"

What a bunch of crap.

Govt. is always at its most odious when it attempts to protect people from themselves. And people like you facilitate this, by turning free people into little infants who need govt. to protect them from their own choices.

I live in a reality based community. I also fight authoritarianism. You apparently feel fine with govt. control over people's lives and choices as long as it's done to "help them" and done towards all those poor stupid sods in the inner cities who clearly aren't educated and smart like you, so they can't make their own choices.

disgusting

[Runcible Spoon]

15. what you think of as "free choice" is actually government at every level selling out communities

which is why you'll get 5,000 fast food restaurants and pay sky high for fresh produce, if you can even find it.

Obviously, government bans on fast food are NOT the answer. But to fool yourself into thinking that having every chain of fast food is indicative of freedom of choice for impoverished families is naive and dangerous.

[aspergris]

20. We agree

Govt. bans on fast food is NOT the answer.

There is no naivete here. And fwiw, I remember DECADES ago when McD's introduced the McLean (a much lower fat burger). It didn't sell.

McD's makes money because it gives people (including myslef) what they want.

How do I maintain 12% bf, compete as a weightclassed strength athlete, and still eat McD's sometimes? Free choice.

I don't disagree that it can be a struggle to find cheap, healthy food. I am for taking POSITIVE steps to increase the availability of same. I am agaisnt BANNING free choice, and taking McD's etc. out of the equation.

There is a difference between helping private businesses to offer healthful alternatives vs. BANNING McD's and acting like mommy/daddy to all those dumb poor people who don't know any better, so they need govt. fascists to protect them from evil food (sarcasm)

[heliarc]

141. Governance on situation is not the same as a "Ban" on free choice.

It protects freedom of choice and prevents Franchise Fast food restaurants which serve foods high in additives and preservatives from dominating commercial property that might be available to start local restaurants with different and more varied food options...

Nothing is stopping your freedom conscious consumer from driving a little farther to grab a McDonalds burger...

[Seeking Serenity]

18. This part is spot on.

"Govt. is always at its most odious when it attempts to protect people from themselves. And people like you facilitate this, by turning free people into little infants who need govt. to protect them from their own choices."

Amen. See, e.g., the War on Drugs. That's worked out real well, hasn't it?

[aspergris]

21. Bingo

War on Drugs
War on Terror
War on Obesity
heck, even War on Domestic Violence (VAWA) has gotten overly paternalistic in some respects.

Nobody denies that drug abuse, terrorists, obesity, etc. are bad.

And the facilitator will use the "bad" to increase the power of govt. to control our own lives, and make our own choices.

Freedom carries risks and consequences.

I would rather live with risk, and the ability to make choices than live in a totalitarian police state where govt. protects me from my own base desires for my own good.

It amazes me that so many liberals are just as willing to jump on the authoritarian train as long as its a cause they believe in.

It is NO different from when conservatives do it.

Free choice MEANS people will sometimes make bad decisions.

SO... WHAT?

[heliarc]

142. I don't know that Government is protecting us from our own food choices here.

It seems to me that Government is protecting us from having 3 McDonald's in 2 city blocks... and reserving commercial property for non-franchise business opportunities... Franchises suck local money out of the district.

[depakid]

30. Well, then you know that finding say- a normal grocery store

or a healthy food outlet is damn difficult- and/or impossible in many neighborhoods.

Liquor stores? Minimarkets? Crap food? Got 'em on every other corner.

Sorry, but your libertarian bullshit doesn't fly.

What's proposed is basically a zoning law, based on the same thing zoning laws should be based on- the appropriate mix of uses for the health, safety and future of the community.

Believing that any business- no matter how destructive to the health and safety of a community- has an absolute right to proliferate is a fundamental problem in the states- and one that's led to myriad problems far beyond things like obesity.

Woe to anyone who recognizes those problems though- and tries to do something positive to ameliorate the social and budgetary costs associated with them.

They'll run into short sighted "free" market fundamentalism from Republicans and their libertarian allies every time, shouting hackneyed nanny state memes to justify whatever preventable harms (externalities) their "rugged individualism" hoists on individuals and soceity at large.

[aspergris]

33. yes.

"or a healthy food outlet is damn difficult- and/or impossible in many neighborhoods.

Liquor stores? Minimarkets? Crap food? Got 'em on every other corner.

Sorry, but your libertarian bullshit doesn't fly. "

sorry, but your authoritarian, fascist crap doesn't fly either.

McDonald's is not destructive or unhealthy.

People who don't have the discipline to eat McD's in moderation are destructive to themselves. First of all, McD's does have healthy choices on their menu. People even WITHIN McD's have that choice, and they also have the choice NOT to eat there.

And again, you or anybody else is free to open up a healthy alternative restaurant

"They'll run into short sighted "free" market fundamentalism from Republicans and their libertarian allies every time, shouting hackneyed nanny state memes to justify whatever preventable harms (externalities) their "rugged individualism" hoists on individuals and soceity at large."

and I run into authoritarian fascists like you, who are mirror images of right-winged authoritarians, perfectly willing to limit people's choices all in an attempt to protect them from the evils that plague them.

You are JUST as bad as any other type of authoritarian, except you mix your brand of fascism with a healthy dose of superiority, smugness, and paternalism towards all them stupid poor people who just don't know better, so you can step in and prevent them from exercising free will.

Physician- heal thyself

[depakid]

50. "McDonald's is not destructive or unhealthy.???"

You obviously don't know much either about the corporate entity or nutrition.

Quite aside from its other odious business and political practices, they hire highly paid child psychologists to devise marketing strategies intended to addict kids to high fat, empty calorie diets- while making it appear "wholesome." That's the point of the so called "happy meal" and product tie ins.

Also- let me note a little irony:

authoritarian fascists like you, who are mirror images of right-winged authoritarians

From the article:

"It's very much the example of a nanny state," says Alan Hoffenblum, a Republican lobbyist in Los Angeles.

Basically, your rantings (along with being paranoid) dismiss corporate responsibility- and lay all the blame for community and societal problems at the feet of individuals- very much like those (Republicans) who blame homeowners for the mortgage crisis (or any of several dozen similar problems associated with ineffective or non-existent regulations).

It's a bankrupt philosophy -everywhere it's been put in place ends up courting some disaster or causing some set of costs to be shifted away from those who profit from irresponsible business activities on a much larger scope and scale.

More than that- "free" market fundamentalism is childish, and reflects an inherent inability to recognize that limits- rules and regulations to behavior are as necessary to a functional community or economic sector as they are to kids on a playground.

Kids (and lobbyists) don't like hearing that- and so they lash out at "paternalism," whenever responsible adults or government agencies affect what they perceive as their right to behave in whatever way they please- no matter what the consequences may be to others- or the community at large.

[aspergris]

55. correct

No, McDonald's is not unhealthy. Eating too much of (many menu choices) McD's is


"You obviously don't know much either about the corporate entity or nutrition."

Yes, I do. I know far more than you , I suggest.

"Quite aside from its other odious business and political practices, they hire highly paid child psychologists to devise marketing strategies addict kids to high fat, empty calorie diets- while making it appear "wholesome." That's the point of the so called "happy meal" and product tie ins."

Great. And parents have the responsibility to control what their kids eat. It's THEIR responsibility and THEIR choice.

An occasional happy meal is perfectly fine.

"Basically, your rantings (along with being paranoid) dismiss corporate responsibility- and lay all the blame for community and societal problems at the feet of individuals- very much like those (Republicans) who blame homeowners for the mortgage crisis (or any of several dozen similar problems associated with ineffective or non-existent regulations)."

No,. My rantings oppose authoritarian fascist nimrod policies that BLAME McD's for people's bad choices. McD's has been around for decades, and is also immensely popular in many other countries, like france.

I blame people for what they put in their mouth. You are damn right I do.

You are just one more authoritarian fascist, just like those on the right - you just choose different areas to exert power and control over people's lives . There are a few on the right who even agree with you on this stuff though - Huckabee the preacher comes to mind. As a reformed fattie, he has made similar statements about using govt. to CONTROL people's choices.

And yes. When it comes to what I put in my body, I do support the right do as I please. We haven't gotten far in the War against the War against drugs, but I'll be damned if I'll give up MORE liberty to your type of authoritarian who wants to limit choices about what I eat all in the name of saving those dumb poor people who can't survive without your hand slapping over their mouth telling them 'don't eat this'

I'm not a free market fundamentalist. That's your stupid strawman. I support minimum wages, Social Security, anti-monopoly laws, etc. I also support mandatory food labeling, in ALL chain restaurants. that's about knowledge. Choice is empowered when peopel have knowledge.

But I support the right of a restaurant to serve food without govt. saying "this food is too fatty" or "this food has too much salt" and I support the RIGHT of consumer to read the frigging labels and MAKE choices.

I also support the right of alternative restaurants to offer healthy(er) alternatives.

You, otoh, support authoritarian govt. limiting people's choices and being the decider for them.

As anthony bourdain would say, there are few more fundamental and intimate choices we make than what we choose to eat, and who we choose to fuck.

I support freedom on both fronts.

I will maintain my low bodyfat, because I choose to exercise discipline, and I will choose to eat McD's when I damn well please, and fuck who I goddamn please without your authoritarian ilk trying to protect me and all those dumb poor people with your superiority

[depakid]

57. Well, apparently you don't support zoning laws

because basically, that's all this is.

[aspergris]

81. there is a difference

Between supporting zoning laws qua zoning laws, and using zoning laws as an excuse to do all sorts of authoritarian stuff.

For example... Zoning laws can reasonably restrict the appearance of buildings, the lot sizes ,and general purposes

If the zoning laws prohibited restaurants, for example, in a residential area - no problem

This law doesn't do that. It says THIS KIND OF RESTAURANT (specifically, this kind of food) is ok, and this isn't. Could you imagine saying "well, we have enough italian restaurants in this neighborhood, so no more italian restaurants".

If I want to serve french fries- I can't do that. But if I want to call them "pommes frites", and charge twice as much, and make you wait twice as long - well, that's not "fast food", so it's ok.

Again, the ostensible reason (tyrants always have a justification for limiting people's choice, and frequently it's "for their own good") is health, but the REALITY IS it is the totality of the diet (and this also varies to some extent individual to individual) that determines healthiness.

The state is making a determination as to WHICH KINDS OF FOOD are "ok" based on their perception that PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THEMSELVES are not sovereign to make that choice based on who they choose to frequent and who they don't.

We regulate restaurants (rightly so) as to health code restrictions (with an even brush to all restaurants), as to whom they must serve (as public accomodations they cannot discriminate on account of race, etc.) but now we tell them WHAT KIND OF FOOD THEY CAN AND CAN'T SERVE?


If you honestly don't think this gives the state WAY WAY WAY WAY too much power, then we can respectfully disagree.

[heliarc]

137. Wow... Anthony Bourdain.

Excuse me... For a smart guy he sure is a jerk...

I don't know but this sort of libertarian rant about personal freedom ignores the fact that if the media is saturated by ads for things that are bad for you, and the Public Schools are sabotaged by vending machine companies and Franchise restaurants practically on school property, there isn't room for personal choice. Children nowadays are practically force fed frito Lay, McDonalds, and Snickers.

Freedom is all well and good, but ever since Reagan abandoned the school lunch programs with the help of the fast food industry, there hasn't been much "choice" at all, but preservative filled crap...

The salads at McDonalds are FILLED with preservatives and additives. Disgusting. Freedom of choice is no excuse for the march of monopolization of food preparation and distribution.

[Psephos]

159. It's only a "libertarian rant" compared to the authoritarian power grab

Meanwhile, you trot out the same tired myths about the American diet that every self-appointed food guardian uses. You're EXACTLY like Fletcher (the "chew everything 32 times" guy) and Kellogg (of the Battle Creek Sanitorium) a hundred years ago. IOW, dangerous and loony.

There are a lot of us who can spot a choice-usurper from a country mile away, and we aren't going to take your condescension, your piracy of choice, and your bad "science" any longer.

There are two choices in this world. Decide for yourself how to live (that includes your food, your drugs, your lovers, your politics, your art, your career). Or, relinquish the decisions to someone else. Like you. Undoubtedly as you pat yourself on the back for being such a morally good person. (Like Fletcher and Kellogg and....).

Meanwhile, I strongly support getting people the information they need to make good decisions.

BTW, I'm a personal trainer with 7% body fat. Don't even go there.

[ryanmuegge]

79. There's no magic pill to looking good, being in good shape, and feeling good.

As you say, it's about having the discipline not to eat bad shit.

[LanternWaste]

39. See also Upton Sinclaire's, 'The Jungle'.

"Sorry, but your libertarian bullshit doesn't fly. "

I agree. See also Upton Sinclaire's, 'The Jungle'.

I'm beginning to think that the only definition of Nanny State is "those rules that *I* don't agree with-- all the others are fine...".

Give me practical, well-thought positions over bumper-sticker slogans any day :)

[nam78_two]

89. I agree with you and depakid

I'm beginning to think that the only definition of Nanny State is "those rules that *I* don't agree with-- all the others are fine...".

Yup...libertarians have some strange boogeymen.

[Codeine]

44. I used to work in a grocery store in a bad neighborhood

and the reason these stores are rarer than hen's teeth is not because of some destructive urge to ruin the health of the poor but simply because people in the 'hood make it impossible to run a business that doesn't involve a giant markup. Shoplifting, vandalism, and robbery will drive any grocer away in a hurry. A liquor store with larger markups on high-profit items can absorb these costs, but a competitive grocer cannot -- the margins are just too low.

[WriteDown]

47. Thanks for making my point Codeine...

Not sure what 'hoods some have lived in, but healthy food has been hard to find for me in the past. I've kow small stores that have been burglarized multiple times in 1 week.

[seriousstan]

70. Normal grocery stores aren't there because of theft, robberies and vandalism.

I have worked at 2 groceries in inner cities that have closed. Grocery stores operate on a very slim profit margin.

Why don't we just mandate exercise of those we deem to "need" it. Then we could fine or jail those who resist.

[crimsonblue]

74. I don't know about you

but I have literally 3 groceries stores within 2 miles of my apartment... I can see one when I look out my window, and 2 of the 3 I usually walk to if I need to buy something. It is EASY to buy cheap healthy food. If you can't afford fresh veggies, then canned ones will be perfectly fine. Here, it costs $.89 for a can of green beans or corn. How is that not affordable?

[WriteDown]

99. Out of curiosity....

What city are you located in? In South Dallas, it is not that easy.

[Psephos]

110. Bullseye!

An actual liberal hates authoritarianism, embraces tolerance, and guards personal liberty like life itself.

Who are these faux liberals who've appointed themselves the Great Deciders? Wolves in sheepskins. They want power, and they pretend to care about others as a ruse to get it.

[WriteDown]

12. Ever try to find ANY food in the true inner city?

It is sparse. The businesses there are often robbed multiple times so it doesn't exactly attract any places serving avocado BLT's. The places you'll find are usually small convenience stores with bars on the doors and windows and glass separating the cashier from you. Not sure how you are going to provide opportunities in these areas.

[aspergris]

16. Yes

See post 10.

and again, that's not the point. Do many inner cities have a dearth of healthy choices available? Yes. Some otoh have quite diverse healthy choices- depends on a # of factors. But the point is that it is not govt.'s role/job to protect us from ourselves and our food choices. I want free choice.

Labeling? I'm all for it. That increases the power of the consumer to make informed choices.

Fast food bans? No. That's fascist, authoritarian "we know better than you dumb poor people" crap.

It's paternalistic, demeaning, and against everything I stand for. When I lived in the hood, does that mean I gave up my free choice, my independence, my right to make choices - good or bad? no

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Jamaican beef patties, baby doll

You can't get good ones outside of Bedford-Stuyvesant, period. Maybe East New York. Maybe...

;-)

[Lance_Boyle]

60. "Providing" by deprivation? Sounds bullshittish to me.

You do not provide opportunities by limiting choice. Mandate that a fresh fruit and vegetable stand be located within 100 feet of any fast food establishment and you have mandated "choice." Mandate "no fast food" and you have mandated... unchoice.

[mainegreen]

118. I lived in the slums of Baltimore once. You totally could eat healthy there.

Or you could eat goddamn fried chicken all day.
Both were an option.

[Taverner]

122. Yes its called a supermarket

[Egnever]

132. this legislation doesnt provide choices it takes them away

[Runcible Spoon]

14. google "food deserts" and learn.

here's some links in case you're lazy.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/07/15/food.deserts.ap/index.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-gottlieb5nov05,0,7040113.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

[Terry in Austin]

83. Bad nanny!

Perry is a piece of big government, authoritarian garbage.

"Big government?" LOL! It's a city, fer cryin out loud. So you'd rather make the world safe for mega-corporate factory food, is that it?

Hold on, though -- the US is a big corporatocracy anyway, so that leaves you in kind of an odd position, doesn't it: railing against big government because of its moves against big government. Go figure...

BTW, your right wing is showing: "nanny state," "big government." Wild guess: Libertarian grown weary of Neo-cons? Anyway, plenty of room in the tent!

[Lorien]

107. When the corporations rule instead of the people, it's not a "nanny

state", it's a "predator state". The only people who get protected are the CEOs and the stock holders.

[nam78_two]

111. A-yup

Any kind of regulation or push towards better consumer habits results in a "nanny state" apparently, and yet everyone seems to be on the same page say when a food scare takes place due to poor regulation.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taverner]

123. Yep

It's not like fast food companies are trying to convince us this stuff is healthy - the McDonalds PR guy said it perfectly in SuperSizeMe "This stuff is a treat - not a dietary staple"

[Taverner]

145. Yes indeed, nanny state crap

Now if the city wanted to do something, they would have subsidized fast healthy food places that charge the same or less. Hell, you could use this as an urban stimulus package, giving sweet loans to local businesspeople who want to start said healthy restaurants.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. We haven't eaten fast food (chain fast food, that is) in eight or nine years

We used to worry about what would happen when we had kids, and they were invited to McDonald's birthday parties or something like that. Now that we have a kid we laugh about that. We don't hang out with anybody who would have their kids eat at McDonald's!

I know, I know. I'm a big jerky urban elitist because I don't believe in poisoning my own children. Blah blah blah.

[aspergris]

22. This is clearly impossible

As the others pointed out, people aren't capable of making free (healthy ) choices without govt. stepping in and banning McD's.

Obviously, you are lying, since it's impossible for people to eat healthy w/o govt. banning McD's. (note: sarcasm)

signed: somebody who eats very healthy and for sports performance but eats McD's occasionally, and defends my right to do so.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. You're a superhero!

You're fucking Batman!

:rofl:

[aspergris]

26. I have my McBelt

Chock full of fatty goodness to protect me when I am fighting crime.

ZAP! Pow!

...

...

Big Mac Break...


...

ZAP!

Pow!

Zowie!

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. I'll leave you to your fantasy of defending freedom, justice, and McDonald's apple pie!

And diabetes.

;-)

[aspergris]

35. I'll leave you to your fantasy

of defending authoritarian nannystate fascist govt. in its neverending quest to protect all those dumb misguided poor people who lack your fine education and well developed sense of self-control, and thus must have govt. thugs step in an limit their choices.

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. Me?

I defended the "authoritarian nanny state?"

Where?

Show me, superhero!

[aspergris]

87. well, if not you

Who?

Did I name ya?

:)

[alcibiades_mystery]

94. You said

". I'll leave you to your fantasy...of defending authoritarian nannystate fascist govt."

In a direct response to me. Are you doing super-freedom-defendin' superhero language? I don't know that one, thankfully.

[aspergris]

95. It's an acquired taste...

If I misattributed others' "authoritarian nannystate fascist govt" supporting comments to you, then I humbly apologize.

My scorn is reserved for them. You seem ok. :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

96. Oh, I'm

an anarchist.

I'm just upset that libertarian capitalist tools took over what was perfectly respectable American anarchism and turned it into such a quisling discourse.

[aspergris]

97. well, I am not a libertarian

For example... I believe in minimum wage, the IRS (but I want a national sales tax) , universal health care, etc.

Otoh, I am strongly influenced by libertarianism such that I generally rail against authoritarianism which I see here, and on the left in general, way too frequently.

I am a firm believer in capitalism, though. So , we may disagree there.

[alcibiades_mystery]

103. Do some people NOt "believe" in capitalism

Rather like not believing in the Rocky Mountains, I should think.

The greatest trick that capitalism ever played was convincing people that it is not the most authoritarian social system the planet has ever seen. Convinces people of the opposite, actually. It's a pretty nifty trick.

[aspergris]

105. I hope you are kidding

Capitalism has delivered freedom baybee!

[alcibiades_mystery]

106. Uh huh

Not kidding. I also don't see this conversation as being at all fruitful or interesting, so I'll bid you adieu, Batman.

Cheers.

[aspergris]

108. later robin... n/t

[flygal]

54. I was worried also

but it turns out my kids HATE fast food. Even in a pinch we've thought of eating it and they scream nooooooo. They hate the taste of it. Now, they do love sweets and that's our problem over here in Germany - everywhere you turn people are offering gummie bears.

[Codeine]

28. This is the stupidest fucking shit I have ever heard.

Don't take away choice and freedom, simply expand it by encouraging businesses with healthy food items and wholesome menus to open up in these areas by extending tax breaks and interest-free loans. Don't ban fast food restaurants -- many folks with perfectly healthy diets choose to enjoy a fast food lunch now and then.

[aspergris]

36. exactly

finally a voice of reason vs. the authoritarian fascist crap I have been subjected to.

Kudos!

[ChazII]

125. Thanks for your common sense. n/t

[Patchuli]

139. I agree!

Encouraging healthy eating and educating people as to what is good for them would seem to be a smarter move. Force the fast food industry to provide better food. Mandate the corn syrup and trans fats out of the food. Corn syrup is the number 1 cause of obesity, IMO. Corporations are what got people eating this way and corporations need to take some responsibility. Capitalism doesn't give a crap if it kills its golden geese; the last 8 years of * and his Corporate buddies demonstrates that fairly well.

I won't say I never eat McD's but I have to be pretty hard-up. There are people who can afford to eat a Value Meal more than they can afford a bag of decent healthy groceries. If they have better choices on the Value Meal menus that are inexpensive, they can be educated to choose them. Of course, some people are going to eat badly no matter what and you cannot force them to take care of themselves.

[truthisfreedom]

29. There's a co-op in Minneapolis called the Wedge and with the most delicious burritos: avocado, rice,

black beans, lettuce, tomato, sour cream and cheese. I've always wondered what would happen if someone opened a "fast" restaurant that only served high-quality vegitarian food that tasted like heaven. It seems like it wouldn't have to be that expensive... rice and beans seem like cheaper ingredients than beef. I always run the possibilities through my head when I'm driving somewhere in a hurry and very hungry... and every single fast food stop on my way that I can think of makes me nauseous. Chipotle used to make me happy but I really got sick of their over-the-top flavors in everything. When my brother was in the hospital with heart fribulation I brought him one of those burritos from the Wedge almost every day and he became completely addicted to them, to the point where he asked me where he could buy them once he got out... really good flavor can totally change your attitude about eating something that is very good for you.

We need fast food entrepreneurs who can figure this out!

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. Chipotle is McDonald's

That's why I won't eat there. I will do everything in my power to deny those fuckers dime one.

:-)

[depakid]

38. McDonalds sold their stake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipotle_Mexican_Grill

Even so, I've avoided the place as well- as I do with most large corporate chains.

[aspergris]

46. I like their food

It's not bad. But I prefer the more authentic hole in the wall mexican places. Otoh, the latter tend to use lard (which is hella authentic) and are NOT as nutritious as chipotle's

I also shorted Chipotle's stock a while ago, and made money when they sold off.

So, I did my part :)

Otoh, I own McDonald's stock

[ieoeja]

76. Lard has its uses.

You need something to cook the bacon in!


Actually, I thought I was making a joke the other day when I told someone, "I cook my sausage in bacon fat." Then I got to thinking about it and realized that I *do* cook sausage in bacon fat.

And, yes, I now look it. However, given that I don't seem to have an extra ounce of fat on my body that is not wrapped around my belly I suspect the beer has a lot more to do with that than the food. I look very much like a stick figure with a beer belly.

[aspergris]

86. "fats that heal, fats that kill"

by udo erasmus is a great book on understanding (*good and bad) fats.

With that in mind, fats that are solid at room temperature - bad - generally speaking.

:)

[Maestro]

34. My wife and I choose not to go to these places.

Every so often, we will do something fun and stop by a Sonic or something similar but it is all about choice. However, if you live in poverty or close to it and all that is around the local area are fast food restaurants then the only choice one has is to buy healthy food at the market and prepare it at home. But banning a store based on its menu? This is new.

[aspergris]

37. New as a particular device

But the same old story. Authoritarian fascist crap. Govt. at its worst - protecting people from themselves.

[Seeking Serenity]

40. Prohibition also comes to mind.

Gotta save those people from demon rum, 'cause they can't or won't do it for themselves.

[aspergris]

42. Good analogy I hadn't thought of. n/t

[depakid]

52. It's simply a zoning type regulation

that recognizes that there are already way too many of these type of businesses in the district.

Far from prohibition, it simple says "there are way too many _______(fill in the blank) here, so we're going to limit new ones moving in.

[LanternWaste]

144. So does Sinclair's 'The Jungle"

So does Sinclair's 'The Jungle".

[tismyself]

58. good on you

I enjoyed reading your posts very much while I ate a bowl of Fruit Loops and then smoked a cigarette. And here in a little while, I'll probably stop off at McD's for a snack while I'm out running errands.

If I wanted to be "cared for" in the name of I don't know any better, I'd check into a mental institution.

By the way, if the same scenario in the original post was re-couched in terms of a marriage or relationship, it would be called abusive.

[marshall]

45. Why not add obesity to the list of "sin" taxes?

They already overtax tobacco and booze--why not just add an extra tax on fatty foods, whether it's sold in a fast food restaurant or a grocery store.

[aspergris]

49. fatty foods don't make you fat

TOO many calories make you fat.

I could (if i wanted to) get fat as hell on so called "health foods" and I can also maintain low bf on VERY fatty foods using a ketogenic diet (commonly referred to by laypeople as an atkins diet) or by just eating less calories than i burn

I am a weightclassed athlete (Iow, I have to make weight and compete against others in my weight class), so I get a good working knowledge of this stuff.

I know bodybuilders who have gotten down to contest bf levels (6%) while eating an occasional McD's burger, for instance.

tobacco and booze are also drugs. Food isn't. Although, it does have drug like effects... mmmmmmmmm donuts.

I can eat McD's twice a week, and have a healthy diet (and maintain low bf) or I could eat solely health food and gain 20 lbs of fat if I so chose.

The issue is the diet as a whole, NOT an individual food.

Also, fatty foods are more calorically dense, and thus cheaper and can help people on a budget IF they are smart about it.

I'm not talking just simple sugars or saturated fats (god forbid), but stuff like nuts are 'fatty' too

Let's let people amke their choices. Educate, add choices, but don't ban choice

[marshall]

56. Can they just tax obese people?

Of just charge them way more on their health insurance and then put that money into some kind of federal fund to combat obesity.

[aspergris]

82. um... :)

I really don't want to go there, but I do concede that MOST obese people are obese because of personal behavior NOT because of some specific malady. There are rare exceptions, like certain thyroid/metabolic disorders, etc.

I can tell you as a former personal trainer, and as somebody who has seen hundreds of athletes at my gym (both my competitive strength training gym, and my local "chrome and tone") that people who want to lose fat almost always can if they are willing to deal with discomfort and be disciplined.

The CDC says that over 2/3 of chronic disease is directly related to two choices we make : Diet, and smoking, fwiw. I support universal health care, but it disturbs me that so little attention is paid to the fact that most chronic disease is the result of CHOICE, not chance.

I happen to work in a place where my health care is paid by employer, and it costs the same regardless of whether i'm 30% bf and smoke 6 packs a day, or a healthy person with a 12% bf. So, yes - for better or worse - the healthy (by choice) will and do subsidize the unhealthy (many of whom are unhealthy by choice).

I don't want to punish people for their food choices. I think, to some extent, biology does that. But I'm not mean like that. But I DO want to do everything possible to educate -especially parents- because they often set behavioral patterns in their kids that are set for life. I was lucky enough to have parents that were very health conscious and this helped me get good habits from an early age.

I'm about making positive changes - education, incentives, etc. But not negative changes - like banning certain foods or restaurants. Only the latter is, imo, consistent with a free society and free choice.

[Missy Vixen]

91. Sure. Let's do that.

In the meantime, you won't mind if I comb through YOUR medical records, will you?

Do you smoke? Drink excessively? Use recreational drugs? Got a family history of heart disease/diabetes/mental illness? How about your sexual habits? Are you at high risk of contracting and spreading a STD? Let's talk personal habits. Do you use a cell phone when you drive? Do you have an demonstrated anger problem? On and on and on and on.

If you think that the fat in this society don't pay and pay and pay for the fact that our bodies aren't what's deemed acceptable, you need to take another look. I'm also one of the "lucky" ones that has a metabolic issue. There's already a fund to combat obesity. It's called the diet industry, which rakes in $33 billion a year. The fat are so desperate they'll resort to a $16,000 surgery or use a weight-loss drug that causes uncontrollable bowel movements. They'd just like to be treated with some humanity.

Julie

[JeanGrey]

101. You mean like we put all that tobacco settlement money into

lung cancer research?

[depakid]

59. Not sure where you get your nutritional information....

because it surely DOESN'T come from scientific journals....

15-year Study Shows Strong Link Between Fast Food, Obesity And Insulin Resistance

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050111152135.htm

Indeed, your post is so shallow and inaccurate, that one wonders what stake you might have in the junk food business (aside from owning stock).

[WriteDown]

61. Here's another one....

Looks like he was right all along. Now I can eat all the buffalo wings that I want.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/16/health/main4266414.shtml

[depakid]

64. Note:

The research was done in a controlled environment - an isolated nuclear research facility in Israel. The 322 participants got their main meal of the day, lunch, at a central cafeteria.

"The workers can't easily just go out to lunch at a nearby Subway or McDonald's," said Dr. Meir Stampfer, the study's senior author and a professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health.

Also, the Atkins diet has several other associated health risks that are none too pleasant over time:

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/advisory.html

[Scout]

66. you obviously don't know much about the Atkins diet

if you think it says "eat all the buffalo wings you want."

:eyes:

[WriteDown]

69. Ha...

I was exaggerating. Do love the wings though!

[aspergris]

85. I'm friends with

Lyle McDonald, who wrote the Ketogenic DIet LONG before laypeople latched on to the "atkins diet". Atkins didn't write anything new. Bodybuilders used ketogenic diets FIFTY YEARS ago as a diet aid.

But you are correct. Many people use ketogenic diets as an excuse to eat junk.

Just like you can be a vegetarian, or a vegan and still eat complete crap, you can go keto and eat healthy or eat crap. It's up to how you construct the diet.

[aspergris]

84. Apparently, you don't know how to read studies

Of course there is a link

Correlation =/= Causation

I will make this simple for you, as you obviously can't even handle abstracts, let alone scientific studies.

*a* big mac will not make you fat.

TOO MANY CALORIES make you fat.

McD's et al are extremely calorically dense, and have tons of processed simple carbs, and saturated fats (although they have SOME diet items that are very healthy and don't have this at all).

Many people choose to use Big Mac's etc. as a crutch, and as a substitute for healthy food. And they deserve the metabolic consequences. That's THEIR fault, not McD's.

If I ate pate and beurre blanc every day (expensive , slow french food), I would similarly harm my health

So, you CHOOSE to incorporate that as PART of your diet. Moderation, discipline, etc.

If you have a bad DIET, you will get fat.

Diet is the totality of what you eat.

NOBODY DENIES that people who eat like crap (too much saturated fat, simple sugars, not enough fiber, phytonutrients, lack of EFA's) etc.etc. cause their own demise. Diet induced diabetes, insulin resistance, obesity, etc.

But that is not MCDONALD's fault, nor is it fast food's fault. This is as logical as blaming a guy's penis for the fact that he committed rape.

It's HOW YOU USE IT. The choices you make.

McDonald's hamburgers don't magically leap down your throat.

You can eat junk food/fast food (not necessarily the same. there are some junk foods that take long to prepare) and maintain excellent lipid levels, bf levels, etc. or not. Based on how much you eat, and what else you eat.

I eat for health (to some extent) and for performance. I will necessarily make different choices than other people based on my performance needs, my basal metabolism, etc.

Again, it's about choice.

It is up to the individual to make choices, and to live with the consequences of those choices.

I chose yesterday to eat a Bacon Cheeseburger. It's $1. It's tasty. It's quick. And I don't want Govt. telling me I can't, or limiting the right of McD's to open up a restaurant based on their food choices.

Fwiw, here's what I ate yesterday

4 whole eggs, 4 whites, goat cheese, herbs from my garden
2 cups of coffee
about 8 ounces of homemade KimChi (a phenomenally healthy food I might add). 1/2 was napa cabbage kimchi, and 1/2 was bokchoy kimci
About 4 ounces of lowfat cheddar cheese
Monster low-carb (20 kcals) energy drink
About 8 glasses of water
Bacon Cheeseburger (McDonald's)
Diet coke
Pink grapefruit
Subway footlong chicken breast sub, no mayonnaise
protein shake (mostly whey protein - about 60 gms), with nonfat milk, and a banana, taurine, glutamine, creatine
Raw Broccoli (about 4 ounces)
Fish oil tabs
Melatonin (one of my favorite supps)
and some dry popcorn

I construct my diet based on getting enough EFA's, at least 150 gms of protein, enough saturated fat (helps performance and recovery), water, phytonutrients, etc.

I take the benefits and I take the consequences.

[LostinVA]

153. Wwll, fat does indeed make you fat

Although some fat is very good for you and fat is a very important part of your diet. If your optimal caloric intake every day is, say, 2500 calories, you will indeed get fat of 2000 of those calories are butter or some other intensely fatty foods.

And, eating two complete meals a week at McDonald's means you do NOT have a healthy diet.

Looks of staples way cheaper and way better for poor people than fatty foods. I've lived that life, and it stretches further and is better for you.

Athlete or not, you better relearn some basic nutrition.

[Scout]

67. don't skinny people ever eat fatty foods? n/t

[Codeine]

78. I'm beanpole thin

and I eat all sorts of fatty (vegan, but fatty) foods. I just make sure not to overeat and to maintain a a healthy rate of physical activity.

[Redstone]

65. Big Brother is alive and living in Los Angeles...

Redstone

[Freddie Stubbs]

68. So, a soul food restaurant would be ok, but Subway would be banned

Brilliant.

[JI7]

113. i'm sure they will make exceptions for places like Subway

but i think there are still a lot more McDonalds and KFC in the poorer areas than Subway.

[crimsonblue]

71. so much for personal responsibility

It must be McDonald's fault that me and my kids are fat... Even though I'm too lazy to go to the grocery store and cook food for my kids and establish good eating habits for them. I hope this bullshit measure gets shot down.

[Terry in Austin]

90. RW code words

"Personal responsibility" - Social Darwinism, aka survival of the richest
"Lazy" - wrong race, ethnic group or socioeconomic status

Upthread:
"nanny state," "big government," yadda yadda...

What, is there a Libertarian convention going on somewhere around here?

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonQ]

140. So you believe McDonals/Burger King/KFC

etc, came to these peoples homes and force fed them fried grease until they were obese? Or is it more likely that they chose to drive to these places, chose to eat food that no one could possibly believe was healthy/low fat, and paid these companies for the privilege of doing so?

I'd say personal responsibility, or lack thereof, is a major factor in obesity. You can blame the companies all you want for selling fatty foods, but if individuals weren't choosing to buy them those companies would quickly go out of business. Last time I checked the fastfood industry was doing alright in this country, what does that tell you?

[LostinVA]

156. Oh GOOOOOOOOD

[LostinVA]

155. I HATE "nany state" for the reasons you just mentioned

It comes up in EVERY thread when the government actually does something to help the health of citizens.

Many people aren't educated in nutrition and correct eating choices, and it makes it worse when English isn't their first language.

[JonQ]

158. I doubt anyone

no matter what language they speak, believes two fried patties of grease, covered with cheese and served with a huge helping of fried potatoes is a healthy choice.

Many people drink, even though it isn't healthy. Clearly the government should ban alcohol. Many smoke, ban cigarettes. Many enjoy activities such as skydiving, rock climbing, mountain biking and other non-essential activities that greatly increase their chances of receiving a debilitating or fatal injury that they never would have risked had they remained at home. Clearly those things should be illegal.

In fact, any activity that can be shown to statistically reduce a citizens lifespan should be banned. Including not being married if (single men live significantly shorter lives than married men) and having sex with more than one person.

I can't wait until we live in such a utopia where we can all enjoy long, boring lives.

[silverojo]

80. How ironic

McDonald's started in California, now they want to ban it.

The reason people are fatter now isn't Mickey D's. It's lack of exercise: Computers, TV, video games, all those things that keep us on our butts instead of moving around.

People are always looking for a scapegoat, aren't they?

[Betsy Ross]

93. Our city put a moratorim on new check cashing stores.

It is a cities perogative to spell out zoning laws, density of housing, desity of businesses, types of businesses. But limiting fast food outlets will not put affordable, quality food within reach of many urban dwellers.

It can be hard to find "good" food even in supermarkets. Fortunately transfats are disappearing but high-fructose corn syrup is everywhere. Even processed foods sold in many "health food" stores contain too much salt. GMOs, too much soy, pesticides. It ain't easy or cheap to avoid taking in a lot of crap along with food.

[Reterr]

98. Good riddance I say.eom

[ravencalling]

102. banning fast food is fine but then..

what are the other choices for people who can barely afford ramen noodles, and have no time in their lives due to working several jobs.

I myself eat as healthy as I can and organic at that. I can afford it. Many times I don't have time in my busy schedule to be as healthy - cook food from scratch, as I would like. And that is me! I am one of the lucky few.

Saw a woman the other day driving fast to somewhere.. work clothes on I presume, and trying to eat a burger while she was driving, and yes she was overweight as well. Did I condemn her? No. I understand why she is eating that fast.. cheap burger probably on her way to work.

All I am saying is.. when your life is compressed down to .. job(s), bills, childcare, and god knows what else - I am talking the high stress of living in today's world where health care is a luxury, are you going to be pouring over how you fix tofu with fresh veggies in a wok daily for your family, and make sure they have healthy lunches? .. oh breakfeast yeah, we will skip that..

No .. fast food is not the answer, but it is the only answer we have given people. What are we going to give them different?

[Irreverend IX]

109. Exiling Hip-Hop

In an effort to fight gang violence, Los Angeles is proposing to ban hip-hop music at nightclubs and bars in one neighborhood, tapping into a tougher attitude toward crime. Jan Perry, a Los Angeles city-council member, is spearheading legislation that would ban businesses from playing songs by a "black list" of 500 well-known artists in a 32-square-mile chunk of the city, including her district. The targeted area is already home to some 40 hip-hop clubs, she says, possibly contributing to high gang membership there -- about 35% of young men aged 17-25, compared with about 15% in the rest of the city.

"There will always be arguments about 'freedom of expression,' but the simple truth is that this music is associated with a class of people who are disproportionately criminal," said Perry. "My first duty is to promote the well-being of my constituents."

So who here would support a policy like this? It's for the common good, right?

[WheelWalker]

112. Tip o' the hat to you.

[WriteDown]

117. That was hillarious

Almost spit out my tea.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[otherlander]

126. Can you say "nanny state"?

Honestly, adults can make their own food choices.
:eyes:

[Terry in Austin]

149. Somebody already beat you to it

The RW code-words are flying thick and fast upthread...

Besides, LA isn't state.

[nam78_two]

151. No kidding.nt

[LostinVA]

157. Tell me about it

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nihil]

133. So are a lot of the people who eat it every day ...

... and, let's face it, these are exactly the ones who *need* "nannying"
as they appear to be incapable of making half-way healthy lifestyle choices.
:shrug:

Still, as so many of you say, the USA is the land of choice and personal
responsibility isn't it? If they persist in choosing badly, let 'em die
as long as they don't inconvenience anyone else.
:patriot:

[RadiationTherapy]

135. I support this out of spite.

So many people are lethargic about the ridiculous War on Drugs; I support this ban because I do not eat fast food and those who do are just losers who poison themselves.

BAN FAST FOOD!

BAN TOBACCO!

BAN ALCOHOL!

[AngryOldDem]

143. Out of spite, I'm gonna go get a super-size Big Mac value meal.

And savor every 1,350-calorie bite of it. I may even ask for extra sauce.

[fjc]

161. HELLO? HELLO? IS ANYBODY IN THERE?

DON'T EAT AT THOSE PLACES! Geez. Can anything be simpler than that? But having said that, there are alot of elderly and others living on fixed incomes that can eat cheap meals at such places. I know a few people like that in my community and you know what? They're not fat. Just poor.