Cubans Sail to Florida in 1959 Buick

[windansea]

A floating vintage car was spotted last night chugging toward the Florida Keys from Cuba piloted by the two men who tried to sail a converted truck to the US last year.

Marciel Basanta Lopez and Luis Gras Rodriguez, who were taken back to Cuba after they failed to reach Florida in a converted a 1951 Chevrolet pick-up in July, were at the helm of the newest vehicle-boat conversion.

The US Coastguard would not confirm the status of the tailfinned 1959 Buick car or where it was

Relatives said they knew the men had been planning a second escape attempt.
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2490157

[seasat]

1. I think they should let them in.

Anyone that creative would do well in a free market society. Maybe they ought to amend the rule to only allow Cubans who come up with original boats to get into the US. B-) I can see it now, a jet ski made up of a toilet powered by a weed whacker.

[denverbill]

2. Yes, let's let any Mexican in who comes by boat too!

How about any Chinese person who crams into a cargo container? That's pretty original too.

[Osolomia]

3. They should apply for immigration just like everyone else in the world

is legally required to do. There's no rational justification whatsoever for the preferential treatment that the USA's accords the Cuban "exiles". The continued complicity of the Dems in this scam has been labelled a national disgrace for several years now but if DUers are any indication "progressive Democrats" prefer to cling to their fox news mentality no questions asked to this day.

[Snow]

7. There's no rational justification whatsoever for a lot of the things

the INS or whatever they're called now do in the way of preferential treatment of immigrants. If you're 'escaping an evil (communist) regime', you're in. If you're escaping an evil (military fascist supported by the US) regime, you're not in. If you have skills and European ancestry, you're in. If you have skills and brown skin, you're not in. If you're willing to be paid very little for hard labor, we won't offically let you in but we won't work real hard to catch you once you're in and we especially won't do anything to keep companies that use you from doing business as usual.

[Osolomia]

8. The Cuban Adjustment Act is US government policy

that should have been repealed years ago along with the embargo. The INS has been saying for years now that the Cubans tell them they're leaving for economic reasons, not the political "escaping an evil communist regime" propaganda that so many ignorant "progressive Democrats" prefer to cling to to this day to justify their hypocrisy.

There is one 2004 Democratic presidential contender calling for the repeal of this Act but evidently few DUers care to even listen.

[Osolomia]

9. Even 25.5% of "exiles" polled say economics primary reason for leaving

And apparently an awful lot of Miami's Local Non-Cubans are NOT buying the US government's propaganda about "lack of freedom" being the primary reason for the kind of stunt being idolized on this thread and presented as evidence of "escaping an evil (communist) regime", no questions asked.

snip/...

If you have to choose only one reason, do you think the primary reason people want to come from Cuba to the U.S. is for economic reasons or is due to lack of freedom in Cuba?

Economic Reasons
Local Cuban 25.5%
Local Non-Cuban 41.6%
National 33.2%

Lack of Freedom
Local Cuban 53.9%
Local Non-Cuban 39.0%
National 45.0%


Insist on Both Being Equally Important
Local Cuban 20.5%
Local Non-Cuban 19.4%
National 21.9%

2000 FIU/Cuba Poll
http://www.fiu.edu/orgs/ipor/cuba2000/3samples.htm

Americans' attempts to try to economically cripple Cuba with a trade embargo and travel ban for 40 years couldn't have anything to do with the economic reasons Cubans want to go to the USA for eh?

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. Economic Freedom

It was a driving force to bring many to these shores in the past. So?

[Mika]

32. Economic freedom does not pass the immigration test

The Cubans "official" claim is for political asylum, because economic asylum claims are not recognizied by the US.


These Buik rafters have been denied a legal immigration visa aplication after their first attempt in the Chevy truck because they admitted that they were leaving Cuba for economic reasons.

Cubans sure truck-boat was odd enough for entry
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/6379470.htm

''They told us we would not be able to go to the United States because it was illegal,'' added Eduardo Pérez Gras, who is unemployed, as are most of the rest of the people on the bright green truck-boat. ``We just wanted to be economically free, without problems.''

Its interesting that the US economic embargo (the trade and travel sanctions) on Cuba creates the poverty that these people are claiming to escape. If they tell the truth then they are denied a legal immigration visa (as were this last group).


The US offers 20,000 legal immigration visas per year to Cubans. The US does the background search.

BUT, Cubans who make it here both legally and illegally are offered immigration perks like no other nationality by the US Cuban Adjustment Act and the supplementary "wet foot/ dry foot" policy.

IF Cubans make it to the US, NO MATTER HOW, they get to stay and enjoy all of the benefits of the Cuban Adjustment Act. For Cubans exclusively, it offers instant work visa, instant qualification for a green card, instant sec 8 housing with an upper income exemption, instant social security, instant welfare (with some additional perks just for ex-Cubans).

PLUS, they don't have to qualify for a legal visa background search for criminal records or mental illness diagnosis (required of everyone else who wants a US immigration visa).

There is nothing else that compares to this in US immigration policy.

People flock to the US from all over the Caribbean and Latin Americas -democracies-, risking their lives, and quite a few die attempting, NONE are offered what Cuban immigrants are offered.

Cuban immigrants are the only type of Americans, hyphenated Americans, or resident aliens allowed by the US gov to visit Cuba. They are a special class of "super" citizen in the US that have immigration perks, tax & income exemptions, and (unlike the rest of us in the USA) they have their FULL travel rights.

Why would 100,000 Cubans every year want to return to the evil island of the evil Dr Castro that they "escaped" from? I'll tell you why.. they are not "escaping" Cuba. They are coming to America for the same reason that almost all immigrants have come here - (perceived) opportunity - except that Cubans are offered a little lot more opportunity.

[Muddleoftheroad]

33. Escaping Cuba

Passes any and every test for me.

As for the embargo, the U.S. has no obligation to trade with a nation. In fact, embargoes are tried and true ways for nations to express dissatisfaction with the actions of other nations.

Cuba is a dictatorship. As long as it remains so, the embargo should also remain. In fact, the U.S. should expand this practice to include other similar nations. Mugabe next?

[Osolomia]

38. Evidently you refuse to listen to a word hundreds of thousands of Cubans

who freely travel back and forth across the Florida Straits have been saying for years now.

As for the embargo, evidently you refuse to listen to a word that the bipartisan majority of Americans have been saying for several years now.

Evidently using food and medicine as weapons is considered immoral and unethical by the Rest of the World as the UN's unanimous condemnation of the USA's embargo for over 12 years now goes to show.

Evidently such hypocritical pro-embargo "democratic" standards leave a great deal to be desired and reek of ignorant bigotry to the core imho.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[Muddleoftheroad]

52. Lots of answers, lots of links, lots of dictators

I don't like dictators, here or elsewhere. That's what that cigar chomping SOB is. It's disturbing that you won't accept it.

[Jon Thompson]

96. I agree.

It seems like many people on this site want to apologize for Castro because he's a communist. Well, I'm not buying it. Sorry. A dictator who imprisons his own people for protesting, legally, against the government, and kills people who are caught trying to escape, is not my idea of a good leader. If he were being backed by the US military, you'd hate him, but because he isn't, you love him? Strange.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Judi Lynn]

98. Maybe you could post a few links bearing out your charges

that people, like the people in this article who are making their second well publicized trip, are killed trying to escape.

Maybe that would be of value to the many Cuban "exiles" who come and go to and from Cuba annually.

We could also use a link to information about the people who protest legally against the government. That, also would be interesting to those of us who have been reading about famous Cuban dissindents like Oswaldo Payá and Elizardo Sanchez.

Here's a link in which it's mentioned that they believe the U.S. should lift the embargo on Cuba:

(snip) The dissidents, who spoke to Ryan at the U.S. Interests Section in Havana, included leading moderate opposition figures like Elizardo Sanchez and Oswaldo Paya. The dissidents, in an unusual move, also were present at the state restaurant where Ryan met reporters.

Ryan said he heard Castro regularly used U.S. economic sanctions as a reason for Cuba's problems. If it were lifted, he said, "he'll have to find another excuse."

Asked if his blunt comments might affect his chances of meeting Castro during his trip, Ryan said, "I have no idea."

Ryan said before meeting the opposition figures he met foreign ambassadors from Costa Rica, Switzerland, Canada and Germany. The dissidents and ambassadors all spoke in favor of lifting Washington's economic embargo. (snip/...)

http://64.21.33.164/CNews/y99/oct99/26e4.htm

The source for this link, by the way is maintained with funds friom the U.S. government, which means taxpayers, and it's located in South Florida, and controlled by Cuban "exiles."

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Osolomia]

56. Flashback

“What sort of punishments does your friend Castro have planned for people who dare to leave his paradise?” – Muddleoftheroad Fri Jul-25-03 09:12 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=31230&mesg_id=31230&page=#33777

Evidently as today’s Buickmobile “defectors” in their second attempt 6 months later go to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt: NONE!

[Muddleoftheroad]

64. Highly publicized

Their defection was highly publicized. I never said Castro was stupid. He may well have chosen to let them off for PR purposes.

[Osolomia]

74. Evidently you are in a state of denial

about the hundreds of thousands of Cuban "exiles" and "defectors" and "refugees" who supposedly fled for their lives but freely return to Cuba each year without any problems.

Here's a recent well known example for anyone paying attention:

Returning Exile Asks to Stay in Cuba
February 2, 2004
By ANDREA RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer

HAVANA, 30 - A Cuban dissident who recently returned to the communist island after years in exile asked immigration authorities on Friday to grant him permission to stay.

Eloy Gutierrez-Menoyo fought alongside Fidel Castro in the revolution. He later broke with the regime and served 22 years in prison. Since the 1980s, he has lived in exile, most recently in Miami.

Now 68 and nearly blind, Gutierrez-Menoyo returned to Cuba in August for a family vacation with his wife and three school-age sons. They returned to Miami, but he decided to stay, saying he wanted to open an office for his opposition group, Cambio Cubano.

Six months later though, he still hasn't received permission to live in Cuba permanently, although he says he has met several times with foreign ministry officials.

... The government, which has not commented on his return, had no immediate response. However, Gutierrez-Menoyo said a lieutenant colonel visited him late Thursday and asked him to be patient.

The Castro government in recent years has had a respectful, but cautious relationship with Gutierrez-Menoyo, who has traveled here occasionally to visit family. He met with Castro himself in 1995.

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y04/feb04/02e4.htm

If you have any evidence to the contrary then why don't you post a link to back up your claims?

[Mika]

65. No misrepresentation

No misrepresentation on my part. Just using your own words, Muddle.

My post to you--> "Letting criminals enter the US is OK with you?

Convicted rapists, child molesters, violent criminals, thieves and such (who have served jail time) DO NOT QUALIFY FOR LEGAL US IMMIGRATION. Its the law.

Cubans rafters (or smuggled in on go-fast boats) who have failed a US BACKGROUND SEARCH, done by the US interest section in Cuba, can enter into the US population under the US "wet foot/ dry foot" policy designed for Cubans only.

So, you think that allowing these criminal elements into the US under this policy is a good thing?"



To which muddle responds--> "Yes

I don't trust the criminal convictions in a nation like Cuba that is entirely a criminal enterprise."



So, Muddle takes the position that the INS/Coast Guard should allow any and all immigrants into the USA that come from a country that "is entirely a criminal enterprise".

How nice.

[Muddleoftheroad]

72. Still misrepresenting

At least I notice a trend.

It is a common way to dispose of one's enemies in a dictatorship -- like the old Soviet Union or the current Cuban regime -- to charge them with OTHER crimes. That way they are totally discredited.

Do I trust Castro or the Cuban courts? Never.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Excellent post, Mika

I can't imagine a person could read that, ponder it a moment, then want to start finding out more about it.

The Cuban Adjustment Act is a real piece of work which has lured so many people to make the effort to get here one way or another, with some tragedies, for sure! All preventable.

Anyone curious about it can surely start checking around like the rest of us, and learn something in the process.

[Osolomia]

41. US charges the Cubans $100 just for a visitors visa!

If Cuba did this hypocritical Americans would be screaming "human rights abuse" "tighten the embargo":

Subject: NUEVO SISTEMA DE CITAS PARA LOS ASPIRANTES A VISAS
DE NO-INMIGRANTES DE LOS EE.

New Appointment System for Nonimmigrant Visas

Beginning February 2, 2004, the U.S. Interests Section will
implement a telephone appointment system for nonimmigrant
visas. Cuban applicants who are interested in traveling to
the United States for a temporary visit should call the
Interests Section at 833-1196 or 833-1198, Monday-Friday,
from 8:30 a.m. until 5:00 p.m., to schedule an appointment
for an interview (no appointment is necessary for non-Cuban
applicants). Appointments granted through this system will
be the only appointments honored after Monday, February 9,
2004.

On the business day before the scheduled interview, Cuban
applicants should come to the Interests Section to drop off
their passports and pick up a visa application from the
drop box located on Calzada at L Street.

On the day of the scheduled interview, applicants should
arrive at the Interests Section at 7:30 a.m. with a
completed application, a 50 mm x 50 mm photograph (black
and white or color), and $100 in U.S. currency for the
non-refundable fee.

Cuban applicants who are approved for a nonimmigrant visa
should be prepared to wait a minimum of a few months after
the initial interview for the visa to be issued.
Consequently, applicants are advised to schedule interview
appointments well in advance of anticipated travel since
the Interests Section is unable to expedite any visa
requests.

For additional information on nonimmigrant visas please
call 833-1196 or 833-1198 or visit our web site at

http://usembassy.state.gov/havana/

[Judi Lynn]

43. Hypocritical as hell. Unbelievable.

On edit:

You'd expect, when reading material like this, a few slow learners would start wondering where they should file this information bit, as it simply doesn't fit into the propaganda our State Department has been cranking out, nor does it fit the loud, windy yammering from the Miami mafia.

Who ARE these mysterious Cuban "visitors," when our Jesse Helms apologists tell us they are never allowed to leave their island?

(Jesse Helms being the mentor of the current head of Latin American affairs at the State Department, Roger Noriega, of course.)

[chromotone]

5. I drive an '82 Buick...

They can use it as an anchor.

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. Amen

Anybody who goes to those lengths to get out of Castro's clutches deserves a chance.

[Judi Lynn]

30. Some of the "exiles" end up going right back to "Castro's clutches"

From a post I added to another thread:

In the book written about Cuba by the New York Times reporter, Ann Louise Bardach, Cuba Confidential, on page 18 of the preface, she describes two groups of Cubans who are never particularly known of by Americans outside South Florida:

(snip) Anomalies such as the phenomenon of reverse balseros, Cubans who, unable to adapt to the pressures and bustle of entrepreneurial Miami, return to the island, or gusañeros, expatriates who send a portion of their earnings home in exchange for unfettered travel back and forth to Cuba (the term is a curious Cuban hybrid of gusano and compañero, or comrade), are unacknowledged by both sides, as are those who live in semi-exilio, returning home to Cuba for long holidays. (snip)

Anyone who knows they come and go always has to wonder what the motivation is when people insist otherwise.

Maybe it flows from confusion, or a certain charming naivete, or something else.

[Muddleoftheroad]

34. Some people will always get homesick

And when the nation they left is only 90 miles away, it's sort of inevitable that some will return.

[Judi Lynn]

37. Well, an alert person would have to wonder why the Cuban government

doesn't pounce on 'em the moment the drag their behinds off the plane, loaded down with presents for their loved ones, and haul them off to the local constabulary for a few torture treatments.

Maybe some sources have been trying to mislead ALL the American people, ALL the time on Cuba, which actually can't be done, as you can see with the pResident's dilemna.

Too many people know the truth.

[Mika]

42. An alert person would also ask, whay can't Americans go to Cuba too?

Cuban exiles who "escape" Cuba and live in the USA can go to Cuba while native born Americans have their travel rights abrogated like second class citizens/residents and cannot go to Cuba.

It flies in the face of equal protection under the law, our constitutional right.

Why do we have to have our rights violated in order to supposedly help Cubans (in Cuba) gain more rights?


Black is white.

[Judi Lynn]

44. Anyway they can explain it so the slowest among us will absorb it

without question is what they're going to peddle. They count on our staying apathetic, disinterested, uncurious, like the pResident.

[Muddleoftheroad]

53. It is not violating rights

Our government made a decision to NOT have dealings with another nation. If you don't like it, lobby Congress.

[Osolomia]

57. A bipartisan MAJORITY in Congress want the embargo lifted now

as do most State legislatures, it is Bush and all the leading 2004 presidential contenders who are pandering to Miami's Cuban-American mafia in refusing to do so.

Congressional leadership strips Cuba travel amendments against the will of Congress
http://www.lawg.org/countries/Cuba/conference-comm.htm

As the saying goes, what planet are you living on?

[Muddleoftheroad]

73. That's not how our nation works

They can be all the majority they want, but they need to be able to overturn a veto. They can't.

And if they don't like what the leaders are doing, they can elect new ones, which they are NOT doing.

[Osolomia]

78. Nonsense. Bush is defying the will of Congress, veto proof or not

And if you took your blinders off for a second you just might notice from all the threads on DU that the people of the USA are engaged in an election campaign to elect new leaders!

[Judi Lynn]

94. They actually elected Al Gore

_{George Bush} is a hideous EXCEPTION to our way of electing Presidents.

He is completely connected to the Cuban Miami Mafia, as is his brother, _Jeb, as was _{his father} in the Bay of Pigs spectacle.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

48. Really?

They get homesick for this hellhole of a criminal organization run by a mad man? Doesn't this sort of make your previous arguments kind of oh I don't know...shit? Just wondering. I don't remember any homesick defectors being able to go back to the Soviet Union, do you? How about homesick refugees going back to any of the fascist governments the good ol' USA has financed in Latin America. I haven't been to Cuba yet but I have learned a lot from people who post here ,that have been there. Maybe you can too.

[Osolomia]

49. Nice! Washington's reason for the travel ban is ...shit

About 150,000 "exiles" freely traveled back and forth across the Florida Straits last year and have been Cuba's largest single source of revenue for several years now, more than tourism makes. Bush just loosened restrictions on the "exiles" while tightening them on American Americans who would be "trading with the enemy" if they spend a nickle there so Bush has tasked Homeland Security with enforcing this law.

Friday, January 30, 2004

For some Americans it's harder, for some it's easier to visit Cuba
By Madeleine Marr
Knight Ridder Newspapers

Until this year, U.S. citizens could arrange legal travel to Cuba with relative ease. Those days are gone.

The "people-to-people" provision that allowed Americans to visit Cuba as part of an organized tour for educational, humanitarian or religious reasons has been tightened by the U.S. government as of Jan. 1. The result: Many tours once available to Americans are offered no longer.

... As of Jan. 1, many U.S. tour operators can no longer legally run trips to Cuba.

... Said Tom Popper, director of Insight Cuba, a nonprofit cross-cultural tour operator in New Rochelle, N.Y.: "The number of U.S. travelers that will legally travel to Cuba in 2004 will decrease drastically, almost to a trickle." Insight Cuba's license to offer such tours was not renewed for this year by the U.S. government.

... But not everyone's frothing over the new rules. For Americans born in Cuba or those who have a relative there, life's a little easier. Though they still are allowed visits only once per year, the circle of qualifying family members has been widened.

For example, a mother's cousin is now deemed "a close relative."

The administration also scrapped the requirement for a family authorized to visit "in circumstances that demonstrate humanitarian need." Now, family members can visit for any reason.

Also, the amount of cash a Cuban-American visitor may bring to the island rose from $300 to $3,000. The amount one is allowed to spend while there has been lifted entirely.

More...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2001846547_cubarules01.ht...

[Muddleoftheroad]

54. Family, friends, home

Gee, I guess none of THOSE concepts has any meaning?

I've known Cuban exiles as well. Of course, not all of them have LIVING relatives to go home to. Thanks entirely to Fidel.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

55. So that's not the point.

If the Cuban government were the monster that you or others portray these people could not go back. Wouldn't they be tortured for having defected or whatever the term du jour is. I went to school with a lot of these exiles as well. Trust me if these people were in charge today they would make many of our modern day dictators look like pikers. If I were you I'd be paying more attention to the Bush Crime Family than to whatever disinformation we get about Cuba and Cubans. If the government is so terrible, they had a revolution once and they'll have one again if they deem it necessary.

[Sagan]

4. Let 'em in!

These guys would make first-rate mechanics!

[Flightful]

6. I see a Junkyard Wars victory in their future

[BiggJawn]

15. That's a Buick?

Where are the "Strato-Cruise Porta-vents"? on the front fenders?
The colour's right, just like dad's.....

[yellowcanine]

17. That's not your father's Buick!

Sorry, couldn't resist.
To answer your question, I think by 59 Buick had lost those portholes on most models - or at least reduced them to vestiges that may not have survived the Cuban trade embargo. They probably fell off and the holes were filled in and painted over.

[Cooley Hurd]

29. Maybe the '59 didn't have them?

1959 Buick Electra 225 Riviera Sedan

[Lizz612]

18. I hope they don't sink this one too!

They sank the truck that tried awhile ago. Its too bad, its a pretty bit of engineering! And they even painted the nose to match the car!

[Robb]

19. It's that kind of attention to detail

that is so inspiring. They didn't need to paint the bow to match. :thumbsup:

[Vogon_Glory]

20. Portent of a Future Sporting Event?

I wonder if we're seeing what may someday become a sporting event when relations between the US and Cuba are far more cordial than they are now and both Cubans and US citizens are able to freely travel between their countries.

Can you imagine a road race across from the Caribbean side of Cuba to a point on the northern coast of the island where teams frantically strip off the tires, disconnect the drive axles, attach the propellers and pontoons, then start the race across the Florida Straights to Key West or someplace in southern Dade County? I can.

[Lizz612]

21. I can too!

That would be a great thing to watch! Especially if you were required to use period cars, those things maybe land yachts, but they weigh a lot, thats a real challenge.

[windansea]

26. thanks for posting the pic!!

very creative land yacht conversion

[ElsewheresDaughter]

95. that wasn't the real pic...the real pic is a 59 buick poick up truck

[Osolomia]

10. How many deaths are attributed to the USA's Cuban Adjustment Act

and the stunts like this one on the Florida Straits that US policy is deliberatley designed to provoke?

Count Elian Gonzalez's mother for one.

SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

[robcon]

68. That's some real ass-backwards reasoning, Osolomia

Blaming the U.S. for being so attractive to Cubans that they risk life and limb to come here is nuts. Using the word "provoke" is a phony term for an understandable desire to escape Cuba. Your post is, as usual, a pathetic apologia for Castro's fascism.

I suggest you "blame" the U.S. for being so attractive that my great-grandfather was attracted to here in the 19th century, and several people died on the ship.

Maybe some objective analysis of conditions on Cuba might help you, but "objective analysis" and your 'cut-and-pastes' from the Cuban government propaganda don't mix. You swallow that propaganda whole.

[Osolomia]

69. Nonsense. You are misinterpreting everything being said

The Cuban Adjustment Act is deliberately designed to provoke and promote the Cubans to leave Cuba on home made rafts rather than apply for immigration or a visitors visa and safely fly over.

Evidently you insist on keeping your blinders firmly glued to your face and ignore the mountain of evidence at your fingertips from all kinds of sources all over the planet.

There's a word for such behavior but DU's admittedly biased admin forbids calling a spade a spade on Cuba threads.

[yellowcanine]

11. I love these guys

Anybody with that much ingenuity would be an asset to our country. At the very least they could have their own TV show.

[Osolomia]

12. Everyone in Cuba has such ingenuity and resourcefullness

Pity the US government does not allow you the freedom to travel there and see for yourself.

[Osolomia]

13. If a travel banned American tried to get to Cuba that way

surely they'd be arrested by Homeland Security and sent to Gitmo!

[EV1Ltimm]

14. that thing was a boat to begin with.

damn the cubans for blurring the lines between figurative and literal.

[yellowcanine]

16. heh-brings new meaning to the term "land yacht"

Eighties term for big ass cars.

[waterman]

23. great post, EV! Very freakin funny!

[Scurrilous]

22. Coast Guard intercepts Cubans on vintage car in sea off Marathon

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-ccarboat04feb04,0,6304448.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

<snip>

"Two Cubans failed in their second attempt to sail to Florida using a floating car or truck as the U.S. Coast Guard was returning them and their passengers to the communist island Wednesday, exile activists said.

Marciel Basanta Lopez and Luis Grass Rodriguez tried to pilot a seagoing 1950s-era Buick with nine other people, including five children, to the Florida Keys, but the car was stopped by the Coast Guard about 10 miles off Marathon late Tuesday, activist Arturo Cobo said.


The 11 people were being returned to Cuba, said Cobo and Joe Garcia, executive director of the Cuban American National Foundation. Cobo said the Buick was sunk."

[Lizz612]

36. THEY SUNK IT!!!

:cry:

[Osolomia]

58. THERE WERE 5 CHILDREN ON THAT BUICK!!!!!

would you rather they drown instead of the boat thanks to Democratic Party suported US policy?

[yellowcanine]

70. Could have saved both the children AND the car.

The two are not mutually exclusive. If the thing was sea worthy they could have towed it in. Maybe they decided it wasn't sea worthy. I guess I can defer to the Coast Guard's judgement on that. Still, it is a shame. That thing should be in a museum.

[Osolomia]

71. If travel banned Americans go ga ga over this ’59 Buickmobile photo,

And evidently few travel banned DUers seem to grasp that such ingenuity and resourcefulness are a way of life all over Cuba, imagine what’ll happen if and when y’all get to see with your own eyes the Forbidden Land that you’ve been trying to economically cripple with an embargo for over 40 years now and still counting!

If anyone had died in this incident it would be US policy to blame, not Cuba’s. Democrats idolizing an act that needlessly endangers the lives of children while ignoring the context is a disgrace imho.

[yellowcanine]

75. "Democrats idolizing an act" ?

No one is idolizing anything. We admire the ingenuity of the Cuban emigres, and in particular this guy who has now done this twice - converted a vehicle into a boat. And neither of his boats sank - the Coast Guard sank them. So I guess he did a pretty good job in keeping those kids safe.

[Osolomia]

76. Would you put your child on that boat instead of taking the safe route?

Hmmm?

[yellowcanine]

79. Nonsequitur-you infer there was a safer route.

How do you know that to be true? So you know what opportunities were open to these people?

As for me - If I were trapped in Cuba and had no other way to get out, I think I might load my family into a sea worthy Buick and make a run for it. It is hard to say, though, not being there and knowing all of the circumstances. Then again, neither do you.

[Osolomia]

82. For crying out loud, get it through your heads

The people of Cuba are perfectly free to apply for immigration to the USA or any country like everyone else in the world. They do NOT have to resort to crossing the Florida Straits on a home made boat.

The USA accepts 20,000 such applicants a year as a simple Google search of the mountain of evidence straight from the US government shows. The links have been posted on DU many a time.

Without the preferential treatment that the USA's Cuban Adjustment Act provides to those who skirt the legal and safe immigration route the rafters would not exist.

[Lizz612]

77. Of course not!

I would never let anyone die just to save a boat! And I would rather have the Cubans stay here if they really want to leave Cuba so badly.
I was just sorry that a piece of ingenuity like that was lost. It could be a representative piece of Cuban-American relations in a museum in the future. I don't think I need to explain exactly why, you are all smart people.
I posted earlier that I hoped they didn't sink it for exactly the reasons above, I'm sorry if you didn't understand my post.

[Osolomia]

80. They could have applied for immigration and travelled safely

but chose not to. They needlessly endangered the lives of their children instead and that's what this boat you want to put in a museum represents in Cuban-American relations: reckless stupidity provoked by a Democratic Party supported US policy that should have been repealed years ago.

[yellowcanine]

81. You keep repeating this - but that is not the reality.

If it were so easy, don't you suppose we wouldn't have Cubans showing up off Florida in makeshift boats? What makes you think you know more than they do about their situation?

[Osolomia]

83. The facts are readily available for anyone who bothers to look

The people on the Buick are perfectly free to go to the US embassy in Cuba and apply for immigration to the USA. If the USA accepts them then they can get on the plane and travel safely. There is no need whatsoever to endanger the lives of children.

Presumably the people on the Buick and other such rafters do not meet the USA's criteria for legal immigration so they resort to sneeking in by raft under the preferential treatment they get under the Cuban Adjustment Act that no other nationality is entitled to.

[Muddleoftheroad]

84. If, if, if

Clearly, they desire to be free more than just, "if."

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

85. I think you're confusing money with freedom.

All those Dominicans that show up in our shores in Puerto Rico risk their lives just the same. I think no one here would argue that the Dominican republic is some kind of tyrannical dictatorship. A lot of them end up capsizing and eaten by sharks. Trust me so called freedom has nothing to do with it. It's plain and simply money. If anyone wants to risk their lives to come to The States or wherever I'm not going to shit on them for it ultimately it's their business and I'm sure they all feel they have their reasons. But just the same there are a lot of risks for them and theirs. Let's not confuse capitalism and economic improvement with freedom. They are different things and have different meanings for a lot of people. All those freedom loving cliches sound too much like *'s. Let's face it if WE wouldn't impose that bullshit embargo you would not see tons of people trying to sneak in here. A lot of them would be perfectly happy at home if they could have more of a say so in their economic future.

[Judi Lynn]

87. Here's a quick snipe from google which portrays poor Domincans' plight

which I actually don't even think made the news shows, as I've never heard of it, don't remember seeing in print, even, just like the HUNDREDS of Mexican migrants trying to cross the border between California and Texas every year who perish, either by drowning, or in the desert, or, occassionally shot by Americans stalking them at the border:

(snip) Crews search for survivors after boat carrying
Dominican Republic migrants capsizes
MIAMI (CNN) -- Rescue crews on Tuesday were combing the waters in
an area between Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic for possible
survivors after a sailboat carrying dozens of Dominican migrants capsized.

Several people were reported to have drowned, according to the U.S. Coast
Guard and Dominican Republic Navy, which conducted the search in the
Mona Passage, a strait between Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic
connecting the Atlantic Ocean with the Caribbean Sea.

Details of how the boat capsized were not immediately clear, but the Coast
Guard said as many as 70 migrants may have been on the small boat. (snip)

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~delacova/dominican/boat.htm

Also, it's a good time to mention again that there is a small community of Haitians who have immigrated to Cuba, like their island's most famous singer, Martha Jean-Claude. A study of that ethnic group in Cuba has been undertaken by a professor at one of the Florida universities. They fled TO Cuba, obviously.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

90. This happens a lot.

Before I moved to the US I would watch it all the time on the news. It never gets mentioned in our wonderful informative networks, even though we're part of the US.

[Muddleoftheroad]

88. I guess you ain't been poor

Because without money, you have no freedom.

That's why millions came to America to be free -- free to worship, free to work, free to vote, free to live and free to earn.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

91. What kind of half ass argument is that?

First of don't pretend to know anything about my economic situation. When I came to this country I had nothing but the financial aid college gave me. Second that makes no sense. There were people in Chile with a lot of money when our friend Pinochet was in power. Did their money somehow give them freedom? Yeah I didn't think so. People in Nazi Germany also had a lot of money. Where was their freedom? This is the typical imperialist. paternalistic gringo attitude. Get some money it's all that matters f____ everything else. Let's stop abusing these third world nations once and for all. We can rule ourselves given the chance and we sure don't need all this outside interference, backing one tyranny after another and then screwing the countries we don't like. Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy. They are two different concepts. Sure you can have both but let's confuse the terms. If you can't understand that I can't help you then. Our system has worked well for a lot of us but it also creates a lot misery throughout the world. Anyway you did not address any of my points you just gave some flimsy argument to back your statements. Is it OK to trade with the thugs in China while trying to bury the Cubans? Answer me that.

[Osolomia]

86. Nonsense. The USA rejected their application for immigration

because of their criminal records the last time. Why should ignoring the warnings from the US government that what they were doing is illegal and needlessly endangering the lives of children entitle them to enter the USA this time?

[Malva Zebrina]

27. I have always been partial to Buicks

love them

[Gman]

28. That was a good car

the '49 Buick.

[henslee]

31. Monster Garage can't touch these guys!!!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

46. And all this brilliance gets shot to shit by an 19-year old

Gunner's Mate on a Coast Guard Cutter when they shred them with bullets to sink them.

What a waste of time. Cuba and Cubans should be allowed immigration and visitation status just like other countries.

[Osolomia]

47. But Cubans are free to apply for "immigration and visitation status"

just like other countries and many do, the problem here is that the USA denies them entry visas!!!!!!!!!!

This has been a ploy of US policy for decades and frankly I smell a rat in this story.

Way back in 1984 after a big rafter exodus from Cuba the USA agreed to accept 20,000 Cuban immigration applicants a year. But the USA did not live up to the agreement and accepted only about 2,000 applicants per year until another rafter exodus in 1994. Bush has been rejecting Cuban applications even for visitors visas left right and center, the Cuban nominees for Latin Grammy awards being the most reported example. For the past few years there's been a steady stream of US businessmen and Congressmen and State legislators travelling to Havana because Bush wont let the trade minister they need to meet an entry visa into the USA! The list of denied visas is long. Last month Bush cancelled the annual immigration talks with Cuba, the only official contact the 2 governments have had for decades.

The USA's Cuban Adjustment Act is designed to deliberately provoke and promote the Cubans to immigrate illegally and dangerously across the Florida Straits in home made boats instead of applying for a visa like everyone else in the world is required to do and flying over.

Judging from the rhetoric coming out of Washington the past few years, it wouldn't be surprising if US taxpayers financed the conversion of the unemployed Cuban "defector's" Buick courtesy of USAID and its benificiaries.

Btw, also contrary to popular American myth to this day, hundreds of thousands of Cuban-Americans who supposedly fled Cuba for their lives freely travel back and forth, on US airplanes, each year. It's only American-Americans who are not free to do so under US law to this day and many more to come if the leading 2004 Democratic presidential candidates are any indication:

Candidates on the issues: Cuba
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=338191

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

50. You are correct, I mispoke

I meant if we followed the same rules for Cuba. But, of course, Cuba never seems to get the same rules as everyone else.
Thanks for pointing that out.

[windansea]

59. do we (US citizens) get in trouble

if we go to Cuba as tourists? a friend went there but flew in and out fron Cancun...had no problems

[Osolomia]

67. YES! Travelers to Cuba face Homeland Security scrutiny!!!

President Bush Discusses Cuba Policy in Rose Garden Speech
October 10, 2003

snip/...

Clearly, the Castro regime will not change by its own choice. But Cuba must change. So today I'm announcing several new initiatives intended to hasten the arrival of a new, free, democratic Cuba. (Applause.)

First, we are strengthening re-enforcement of those travel restrictions to Cuba that are already in place. (Applause.) U.S. law forbids Americans to travel to Cuba for pleasure. That law is on the books and it must be enforced. We allow travel for limited reasons, including visit to a family, to bring humanitarian aid, or to conduct research. Those exceptions are too often used as cover for illegal business travel and tourism, or to skirt the restrictions on carrying cash into Cuba. We're cracking down on this deception.

I've instructed the Department of Homeland Security to increase inspections of travelers and shipments to and from Cuba. We will enforce the law. (Applause.) We will also target those who travel to Cuba illegally through third countries, and those who sail to Cuba on private vessels in violation of the embargo.

You see, our country must understand the consequences of illegal travel. All Americans need to know that foreign-owned resorts in Cuba must pay wages -- must pay the wages of their Cuban workers to the government. A good soul in America who wants to be a tourist goes to a foreign-owned resort, pays the hotel bill -- that money goes to the government. The government, in turn, pays the workers a pittance in worthless pesos and keeps the hard currency to prop up the dictator and his cronies. Illegal tourism perpetuates the misery of the Cuban people. And that is why I've charged the Department of Homeland Security to stop that kind of illegal trafficking of money. (Applause.)

By cracking down on the illegal travel, we will also serve another important goal. A rapidly growing part of Cuba's tourism industry is the illicit sex trade, a modern form of slavery which is encouraged by the Cuban government. This cruel exploitation of innocent women and children must be exposed and must be ended. (Applause.)

Second, we are working to ensure that Cubans fleeing the dictatorship do not risk their lives at sea. My administration is improving the method through which we identify refugees, and redoubling our efforts to process Cubans who seek to leave. We will better inform Cubans of the many routes to safe and legal entry into the United States through a public outreach campaign in southern Florida and inside Cuba itself. We will increase the number of new Cuban immigrants we welcome every year. (Applause.) We are free to do so, and we will, for the good of those who seek freedom. Our goal is to help more Cubans safely complete their journey to a free land.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031010-2.html


DHS Enhancing Enforcement of Travel Restrictions to Cuba

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
October 10, 2003

Effective immediately, the Department of Homeland Security will step up enforcement of travel restrictions to Cuba that are already in place. Enforcement efforts will be enhanced to curtail illegal travel and transport of goods and funds to Cuba. Also, the Department will be involved in the expansion of programs that promote the safe, legal, and orderly migration from Cuba.

Homeland Security officers assigned to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will increase inspection of all persons traveling directly to Cuba and arriving back directly from Cuba. Current U.S. law strictly limits permitted travel to Cuba to journalists, official Congressional visits, persons engaged in educational purposes, and family visits by Cuban-Americans. In all cases, there are specific limits regarding the transport of money and goods, and in certain cases, the frequency of visits. There are also limits on items that may be brought back into the U.S. by people permitted to travel to Cuba. CBP officers will increase their inspection efforts to uncover those persons who violate the restrictions in place.

Homeland Security officers assigned to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), will assist in this effort by ensuring that travelers from the U.S to Cuba, who pass through Canada, Mexico, and other countries en route, are not violating the Cuban embargo. DHS will use intelligence and investigative resources to identify travelers or businesses engaged in activities that circumvent the embargo.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=43&content=1937

Travelers to Cuba face homeland security scrutiny
Monday, January 19, 2004
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2004/01/19/scrutiny.htm

[Buns_of_Fire]

60. All wrong

Everyone knows a '68 Plymouth Fury III is the most appropriate car for overseas travel! (But it's a shame we won't give these guys asylum for ingenuity, if nothing else...)

[AngryAmish]

93. I prefer to use the Fury for tunneling myself.

'77 Catalina would be a fine ocean-going vessel.

[Lostmessage]

61. For Creativity alone they should be allowed in

They must have talent and they should be allowed to stay in the US just on that alone.

[noonwitch]

62. I agree-these guys are amazing and determined.

I think that sooner or later they will figure out how to make a submarine out of an old SUV, and then they will make it to Florida.

[Mika]

63. Are you people kidding? They were recklessly endangering FIVE children

Children being put out to sea in a Buick(!) WITHOUT LIFE VESTS constitutes reckless child endangerment.

Cubans' Buick pulled over at sea
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/7876434.htm

A source familiar with Coast Guard communications said that when the Cubans -- six adults and five children -- realized they had been spotted, they piled into the vehicle and rolled the windows up tight.

Remember Elian? IF those sport fishermen hadn't seen him he would be dead like 13 others who took the same voyage in an overloaded and dangerous boat, including his mother who put the child on an overloaded boat, with a bad outboard motor, without life vests.

This constitutes reckless child endangerment. The people who put children on that "vessel" should be investigated, and their competency to protect, care and look out for their children's safety should be questioned by a family court.


These Cubans could have used legal & safe methodologies to obtain US immigration visas. Three of the Buick rafters had already attemted this crossing in a Chevy truck (endangering children w/no life vests at that time too), and were given US immigration applications which were denied by the USA because of prior criminal records.


This message board has Americans -Democrats- here that want to reward this reckless & dangerous behavior put upon children?

Pathetic :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Buns_of_Fire]

66. Worse still -- they weren't wearing their seat belts!

(I'm sorry. The thought just came to me. I mean no offense, and I know I'm bad. :spank: I'll leave this thread now...)

[Elidor]

89. No, let me tell you what's pathetic

A few humorous responses by people who appreciate the verve of the scene have been ruthlessly demagouged by people who refuse to recognize humor for what it is.

Me, I'd have done it in a '57 Chevy, but I'll still give them points for style. And yes, the matching paint is a nice touch. It's the ultimate reality show and they're trying to vote themselves off the island.

[xxqqqzme]

92. they have converted TWO

vehicles???? - Hell, the need 2 start a business!

[Moderator]

99. Hello Cuba partisans

This is a message from your local moderator.

Is it too much to ask to argue the message instead of the messanger? I only say this because it seems every thread about Cuba eventually gets locked because we get tired of patroling it for personal attacks and rule violations. Please, argue the message. Do not argue the messanger.

This news item is over a day old now. I sincerely hope that's been enough time for everyone to say what they wanted to say about it.