Obama embraces charter schools during Dayton campaign stop today

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Associated Press

RIVERSIDE, Ohio (AP) - Barack Obama promised Tuesday to double funding for charter schools, pay teachers based on performance and replace those who aren't up to the job, embracing education proposals normally more popular with Republican candidates.

The Democratic presidential nominee says both parties must work together to improve education in a pitch to independent voters in this presidential election swing state, where the fight over education reform has been the focus of a longtime partisan battle. It was the first of two days that Obama was spending on education policy.

Days after Republican candidate John McCain talked up the idea of school choice at the GOP convention, Obama proposed to give parents more options, too - but not with a federal voucher program to pay for private schools, something McCain has supported. Instead, Obama seeks to create an array of new public schools.

Despite his rhetoric, McCain is not proposing a federal voucher plan. Instead, he is proposing only to expand the voucher program in Washington, D.C.

Read more: http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/09/09/obamadayton.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

[WriteDown]

1. Was my candidate...

replaced by a pod person or something? What the heck is going on?

[Bob Dobbs]

2. Great, continue to destroy public education.

What bullshit.

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. How have these things destroyed public education?

:shrug:

[Bob Dobbs]

57. By sucking off funds and attention REAL schools need.

We need to refund and reprioritize the public school system that made this country great in the first place.

[Freddie Stubbs]

62. Students who attend charter schools don't have real needs?

:shrug:

[Zhade]

71. Keep in mind, the person debating you is a conservative.

NT!

[heliarc]

3. I hate charter schools...

what a crock... they remain solvent by charging parents fees upon fees upon fees, and still seeking subsidies.

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. You would think that would drive away business

Perhaps the parents believe that they are getting their moneys' worth.

[heliarc]

43. Parents want the best for their kids.

and for a few years a Charter school operates well and does good things for kids, but parents are paying out $1200 in California for bussing... Performance fees for student shows... Parents are paying for Student parking and to supplement substandard lunches... the alternative is a failing public school that gets no funding and has no mandate to become a business.. but the model is faulty... because charter schools are expected to become working businesses... how else does a school do that without putting the burden on Parents who are already paying taxes that should support all of our schools... The subsidy dries up and the schools are never solvent. Edison is a failed project. I'm sorry. It is crap. I was a teacher at a charter and they treat us as if we were employees at a Walmart... work extra hours but don't get paid for it... No pay during student passing time... problems paying teachers? Increase the student passing time from 4 to 10 minutes... call it "nutrition" and encourage kids to buy the endorsed junk food at the snack bar...

This system is broken, and it has been sabotaged by big Food, and the voucher system.

[demgurl]

67. Our charter school is celebrating their 10th year anniversary with no fees.

[heliarc]

73. How wonderful for you...

part of the problem is that there is very little consistency to our educational system now. Opening up public education to privatization is a lot like opening up our wars to profiteers like Halliburton and KBR... sooner or later people are throwing around palettes of cash bricks and not building the schools they said they'd build.

[demgurl]

81. I am not sure what state you were in.....

but in our state we have guidelines about what must be taught in public schools. We are a public school and so we must adhere to that 100%. The catch is that we must teach at least what the state says we must but that does not mean this must limit us. We can actually teach much more than the state says we must.

Our regular public schools teach the bare minimum. Our schools teach each grade using state and national level requirements so that if a child is transferred out of state, they will not be behind and have to play catch up.

Not all charter schools are bad. I am not sure about the building of the school but I believe that we built it, ourselves, out of our own money. If the government does provide that then they need oversight to make sure it is built to standard and not abandoned. Do you have any news stories where a charter school was not built and people ran away with the money? I would love to see the links if this has occurred. Did the government go after the people? Did they go to jail? As I said, I would like to read the articles but even if one person has done this, it does not make all charter schools bad.

Our parents love our school. We have people attending from five different counties. At one point, a person drove an hour to get to our school because it is just that good. We know we have the commitment of the parents because we do not have school busses so they must be there to pick up and drop off our students every school day.

[alstephenson]

52. Charter schools are public schools.

They receive per-pupil funding like any other public school in the state. There are many fine charter schools out there with dedicated and committed teachers offering a choice to students and parents. Please don't throw the baby out with the water.

Here's one that was recently featured on PBS:

http://www.hightechhigh.org/dc/index.php

[heliarc]

59. I was a teacher at a charter school...

As a Teacher, I was expected to supervise kids without pay during passing periods, and we were underpaid. With many charters the public funding runs out as the school is forced to become a business. Parents end up paying upwards of 1200 dollars to bus their kids every year... they pay for their student's rights to perform (this was an arts school I worked at)... they work out endorsement deals with fast food companies... There is a lot wrong with charter schools, and it is pure utter sabotage of our public school system.

[alstephenson]

65. That sounds like a really bad charter school.

But that doesn't mean they are all bad. In what way do they sabotage the public school system? They ARE public schools and are accountable to the same standards as any other public school, including the notoriously bad "No Child Left Behind" legislation.

[heliarc]

74. The sabotage of public school was carried out by Edison...

And others followed from there, but in this instance I'm speaking of the way that School lunch standards were lowered by the Reagan administration precisely to worsen the quality of public school lunches and make big fast food chains more appealing to students and administrators alike... Vending machines replaced the cafeteria. That was explicit sabotage of a big part of our public education system.

[hamsterjill]

83. Isn't it correct to say

Charter schools have more control over what students they accept, too, don't they? And they don't want any low performing or problem children admitted.

Public schools must take any and all students, so when the academic success is contrasted, it's not truly a fair assessment.

I'm not a teacher and don't have children in public school any longer, but this is what a friend of mine who IS a public school teacher constantly tells people.

[heliarc]

87. Exactly right.

My charter school had very high performing kids... (most of whom couldn't read aloud... but that's another story)... and never quite was able to match the ethnic makeup of the community it was supposed to serve. That is because a lot of the student body was accepted from neighboring Newport and Laguna Beach where the population is much more affluent.

I'll tell you a few stories about how entitled and rude those students are... Talk about the OC. :eyes:

[demgurl]

66. My kids have gone to charter schools for the last three years....

and I have yet to be charged a single fee. No fee for any of the regular subjects and no fee for the drama club and no fee for band. We do not seek subsidies, we get paid for how many seats we fill. The pay is the same amount all public schools get per pupil.

We, in fact, get screwed over by the government because every time they pass a law for public schools it must say it also applies to charters schools or it won't. When they passed a law saying lottery money would go to public schools, it did not include charter schools. Therefore regular public schools get money that is not funneled toward us in any way.

I tried a public school around the corner from our house and besides the staff being non-responsive to issues I had, I also felt the children's lives were in literal danger - what else can you call it when a boy is told to leave his sneakers tied together and walk that way the entire day, just because he tied them together for a prank. Yes, a five year old was made to do this. The shoe laces were so tight that his Mom had to cut them off. They lost at least five children that year including one parent who gave up custody of her son just so he could go to a better school.

A charter school is just a public school that is run privately. It is still a public school when all is said and done. The difference is that at our particular school the teachers appear to really love the children and work with them. My 3rd grader just tested on a 7th grade reading level! What did the teacher do about this? She made a reading club for the highest scoring kids in the class. They read much more complicated books and must do a book report every week on them.

The school expects no matter where you are, on the grading scale, that you will improve as much as anybody else during the year. You are never left behind, ignored or let slack off no matter how good or bad your grades are. On average our kids test in at learning a year and half of work for every year they do. This is a school that is wonderful. There are so many poor families that attend and get a chance at a better school than they might have otherwise. It is in a very poor part of the city and the fact that there is such a diverse group attending just makes me even more grateful for it.

I do not think our public school is an exception to charters charging fees. We are a system of schools that reach from Michigan down to the Carolinas. All of our schools are tuition and fee free.

[heliarc]

75. You're lucky.

I'm not saying that there aren't good privately run schools... but I am saying that if you want your war not to cost you 5 times as much, than have the military do the work... not Halliburton. if you catch my drift. The privatization of the school system is the same sort of BS that caused the problems at Walter Reed Veteran's Hospital and the problems with the Iraq reconstruction. You're lucky you have responsible businesspeople running your school. That isn't always the case... but its too late because there isn't a common standard now. Plain and outright sabotage.

I was a teacher at a charter school. And you know what? Teachers do love their students, but they ran it so much like a business it felt like I was working at Walmart... Work extra hours for no pay... no pay for passing periods so there was effectively no supervision of students during the break... And since it's run privately, the private company gets to decide what's good business. NOT what's good for the students. ridiculous.

I'm glad you have a great school. Good for you. I hope that it lasts when the subsidies run out.

[demgurl]

80. Yes, I am very lucky.

I am not sure what subsidies your school got, that ran out, but ours only gets certain 'subsidies for having special children at our school. That supposedly always continues as long as we have the special needs kids.

I feel very lucky to be at this school because my youngest has had speech therapy as well as occupational therapy.

Our school costs less than others to run. Being that it is privately run, they have a true eye on the dollar and not on wasteful spending. This does not mean that my children get bare bones educations. This means that we do not have a bunch of extra people running the system taking money from it. We get the exact same amount as every other public school - sans the lottery money which I mentioned before. See, all public schools have a seat count day in which they report to the government how many children are enrolled. This usually happens about a month after school starts. We get x-amount for each child attending our school, same as other public schools. We get no extra subsidies to help us along with a wink and a nod.

Our teachers are wonderful although we do keep an eye on them. They get paid less than regular public schools. The catch is, they get a bonus depending how the students do. This encourages them not to just sit back and do slipshod teaching. Their salary is dependent on them getting through to the children. The bonus sets them ahead of their colleagues in regular public schools but they must teach well to insure they get that bonus.

We give our teachers plenty of help in trying to achieve this goal. The state requires the school to do End of Grade testing on certain grade levels. We felt this does not address how the kids are doing during the year. By the end of grade it is too late to help little Johnny get the grades he needs to do well on his work. With this in mind, we took a look around and found computer tests called N.W.E.A.'s. We administer these three times a year. The first time is about two weeks into the school year. These tests give us real time results about how a child is doing and where he is deficient. It not only says that little Johnny is behind in math but it tells us what area of math must be worked on, ie. fractions.

We have teacher's assistants who help take kids out of class so that they can be worked with one on one. And if this does not work, we also have a couple of assistants who stay the afternoon and work with kids who just are not getting it. Oh! We also have one teacher who takes kids, needing reading help, out of class.

They have done this for ten years with our school and a lot longer in some of their first schools. None of our schools charges fees of any sort.

I wish you had worked at a better charter school. I first worked at ours as an admissions specialist and then went on to work as a substitute teacher. Everything has been wonderful top to bottom. I go in on Saturdays and do copies for teachers so they will have extra time. All of our teachers get one free planning period a day while the children go off to specials. (gym, music, technology, library and art) They are expected to be with the class for lunch and recess.

The part I really like about our school is we are held accountable. We do surveys, with the parents, to make sure all is well. We also have a 1-800 number so that if you have gone through the teacher and the principal, but still are not satisfied, you can call corporate. (they also have 1-800 numbers for our teachers to call and complain) And our parents hold a lot of power because if someone with three kids decides to withdraw, we loose about $20,000 for the school. That is real money power and so we listen to what the parents have to say.

May I ask what subsidies your school was getting that ours is not? Perhaps it is only for your state? I am very curious as to what this subsidy is and how long it was given to your school.

[heliarc]

86. I really am thrilled that you are having a good experience...

But I've described my experience as a teacher at my charter school...

Here's a little more about how some of these schools stay afloat and grow which I think is horrific.

The following is from an article published in 2000... since then OCHSA has been unable to make its school makeup reflect the actual populations ethnic makeup...

And the reason is that they seek private donations and have an arts direction that appeals to the rich students in nearby Newport and Laguna beaches... The result is that county money for the school goes to support students whose parents have more money on average than the students who actually LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD that the school is supposed to serve. As of last year the school has STILL not been able to improve that number of students...

And so it is sucking the money away from schools that actually serve that community... as problematic as those schools may be... and on top of that, the affluent parents flock to the school and support that one the most with more donations.

The effect on poorer impoverished schools is definite and debilitating. I think that your experience is very encouraging, but I would prefer that our tax dollars weren't handed out to affluent neighborhoods instead of being allocated to fix the schools that are already in need of our tax dollars.

HEADLINE: ARTS SCHOOL WINS APPROVAL IN SANTA ANA;
TRUSTEES INSIST THAT NEW CAMPUS RESERVE 25% OF ENROLLMENT FOR THE CITY'S YOUTHS, AIM TO BETTER REFLECT THE COUNTY'S ETHNIC MAKEUP.

BYLINE: LISA RICHARDSON and ANA CHOLO-TIPTON, SPECIAL TO THE TIMES


BODY:
After months of talks, and a spate of last-minute concerns, the Santa Ana school board agreed Friday night to welcome the Orange County High School of the Arts to a new campus downtown.

More than just a new address, the move from Los Alamitos will lead to significant changes in the school's racial and ethnic makeup.

As conditions of its approval, the Santa Ana school board required the school to reserve at least one-fourth of its spaces for local students and work toward making the school's ethnic makeup more reflective of the county's.

Currently, white students make up 66% of the enrollment, while 22% are Asian, 8% are Latino and 4% are black.

The county, said board member Nativo Lopez, is 50% nonwhite, and since the school serves the entire county, it should strive to achieve those numbers too.

Arts school Principal Ralph Opacic agreed.

"Because we're in Los Alamitos, we're serving a distinct demographic, but now that we're in central Orange County it makes sense that we should strive to reflect the demographics of the county at large."

Its new location in Santa Ana will mean greater access for local students, Opacic said.

[LisaM]

4. This better be FUCKING SARCASM

from a proud daughter of a public high school teacher and coach.


Please tell me this is wrong.

[WriteDown]

6. Unfortunately, it is not. n/t

[stillcool]

24. Let's see...what did Obama actually say?

"I know you've had a tough time with for-profit charter schools here in Ohio," Obama said. "That is why I'll work with Gov. Strickland to hold for-profit charter schools accountable."

Obama also said there's a difference between his support for school choice and that of McCain.

"John McCain will say he's arguing for choice by allowing money and students to drain out of the public schools," Obama said. "I believe in the public schools, but I also believe in fostering competition within the public schools."

[jhill3rd]

29. Well...

That seems pretty comprehensive to me. Thanks for posting more.

[stillcool]

36. If you want comprehensive..

maybe you should check out this..
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

..rather than relying on a couple of quotes from an article regarding schools in Ohio?

[alstephenson]

53. Charter schools ARE public schools.

Please do some research.

[heliarc]

60. I know about my charter school.

And it is a raw deal for the parents who pay plenty by way of taxes and the pay out again to ensure their school even functions.

[demgurl]

82. Why did those parents let their children attend the school?

I have my children attend our charter school because there are no fees what-so-ever. I know that my money paid to school taxes is being used at a public school - in this case it woiuld be a charter public school. In our state charters have no borders. You are not forced to attend our school and therefore we have to work harder to assure our parents are happy and we do not loose the per student stipend all public schools get.

To me, paying fees is the same as tuition and that would mean I would look into private schools for my kids.

Are chartered schools districted where you live? Were the kids forced to go to that school? If so, that is an unfair monetary burden for those parents. If not, why did the parents not leave the school? Were they under the mistaken impression that it was a private school?

Just becuase there are a couple of bad charters does not mean we should give people the idea that all are bad. They just aren't.

[Zhade]

72. If it wasn't true, Stubbs wouldn't have posted it.

His modus operandi is posting stuff that upsets liberals... almost as if he enjoys rubbing his conservatism in our faces.

[4lbs]

7. Did reading comprehension suddenly plummet?

I guess you missed this part of the article:


Obama proposed to give parents more options, too - but not with a federal voucher program to pay for private schools, something McCain has supported. Instead, Obama seeks to create an array of new public schools.


So, OBAMA PLANS TO CREATE MORE PUBLIC SCHOOLS INSTEAD OF SCHOOL VOUCHERS FOR PRIVATE ONES.

[angstlessk]

8. eggzactly...Publicly funded charter schools...my nephew went to a California

charter school (a 3-R charter school) and it was a great school! It was NOT a private school it was a state school, they also had one for the performing arts...I say go for it!! We need better state funded education, schools with focused interests to keep kids IN SCHOOL, and however we can achieve that, the person willing to try it, has my vote!!!

[LisaM]

9. In our public high school....

We had a teacher who taught "comic books as literature" who consistently was rated the best teacher. I took AP and got a 5, and got college credit before I entered Michigan. No one from the comic book class did (I was the only 5) and I don't even think any of the people who took it were in AP.


Just because he was popular.......how was he the BEST English teacher?

The problem with merit raises for teachers is that people who taught BS classes like that would get them. My grade had more to do with our stringent reading list in AP.

[One_Life_To_Give]

10. Paying for Performance is not a Popularity Contest

I would expect the teachers performance would be graded by the Principal and other faculty members. One could also argue that giving the students an exam at the begining and end of the year with their review based upon the differential between the two exams also meets the criteria.

[LisaM]

11. Did you read the article?

Students would have input on this merit raise thing.

This is MADDENING. I do not support charter schools. Among their myriad problems, they also don't have teachers' unions. It's part of the systematic dismantling of unions in our society.

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Do schools with teachers' unions have more academic success than those without?

:shrug:

[LisaM]

17. Academic success has more to do with facilities, money, the neighborhood

than anything else. There are many valiant teachers who plug away for years in poor neighborhoods and underfunded schools who wouldn't have the so-called "success" that someone in a plum neighborhood would. People like you and I were lucky to have parents who were a part of our educational process. I didn't have to worry about where my meals were coming from, a dysfuntional family at home, a parent on drugs, etc. However, the teachers that basically do nothing more than keep kids from these homes off the streets wouldn't qualify as a "success" under merit guidelines, which are essentially based on test scores.

And I support unions in every field where they are applicable.

[One_Life_To_Give]

39. Misuse of Merit system

Management may try but one shouldn't be trying to compare teacher performance between College bound suburbanites versus inner city verge of dropping out. Based solely upon exam scores anymore than one should compare the dollar generation of a Diamond Cutter versus a Black Smith.

If the raw material is Iron you rate the person on how well they make Horse Shoes and the like. If the raw material is Inner City/disenfranchised youth then you compare them against a class of similar kids perhaps in the same school.

[snappyturtle]

31. I can only tell you one example. In the early seventies I taught

high school P.E. and health. My third year of teaching I had 103 students in my first hour P.E. class. That class started at 7:00 A.M. There were four of us in the department, however at that hour I was the only teacher scheduled in our department. I belonged to the union: AFL-CIO. We went on strike seven months into that year for, among other issues, class size. That was the year I took out a million dollars of insurance with Lloyd's of London through the union. I was always glad to get through class without injuries. Although P.E. is not an academic class,I was glad in subsequent years after the strike not to ever face again a class of 103 students. We did not go on strike for increased pay if any of you are thinking that. I think unions can do a lot in school systems to keep accreditation, for one thing. That fact alone is of benefit to the students and parents and taxpayers.

edit: I did my best and I think I was as successful as I could be that year, 1972 HOWEVER, I would take great offense to having been judged on performance with that one class skewing up the works. Other classes I had that same year were in the 45-72 class size and one at only 14! The school board left a lot to be desired, to say the least.....but they would judge ME....? Be careful in judging teachers on performance where circumstances are setting them up to do less than their best. I will be fair though and say I have met teachers who really shouldn't be teaching. Haven't we all?

[alstephenson]

56. One of the goals of charter schools is to keep class sizes small.

Usually no more than 20 - 30 students per class.

[snappyturtle]

78. It's been a goal of public education too. Here classes are very small...

I've heard teachers 'complain' when they have eighteen! I am not a fan of charter schools although I will admit I know nothing of state sponsored ones. The ones I am personally knoweable of have questionable guidelines in teacher hiring and curriculum.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

64. According to the test scores published in the Minneapolis paper

not necessarily. Mostly they don't.

[One_Life_To_Give]

32. Not that I could find

I can't find any reference that states students would have input to a teachers merit raise.

And are Public Charter School teachers part of the Union? I thought they were.

[alstephenson]

55. Actually some charter school teachers do belong to unions.

It depends on the location and how strong the local union is.

[mbperrin]

33. Little problem with principals:

the last 3 years, the best teacher award on our campus has gone to the guy who cooks the hamburgers for the last day of school at his own expense.

Wish I was kidding.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. There's nothing "BS" about the comic book as literature

It has been a subject of great interest in university English Departments for several years, and it should be. Comics books actually have a lot to teach us about semiotics, visual rhetoric, narrative theory, reader response, and the historical development and positioning of high and low cultural forms.

Many university composition programs use Scott McLeod's Understanding Comics (which is, for its part, an incredible survey of literary, cultural, and visual theory) in their first-year composition courses. These are extremely positive developments in English and Composition.

[LisaM]

18. I knew someone would leap to the defense of the class!

Take my word for it, it wasn't an academic class. It was where the burnouts hung out. It may have some merit as a subject, but in this application, it didn't.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. I'm not claiming to speak about the application

In fact, I didn't mention the class once.

[LisaM]

28. My point remains the same

Teachers can become popular because they teach easy classes and give easy grades.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. I have no opinion on that at all

[Buenaventura]

12. he's been sayin' this for a while. obama's on his way to becomin' the next lieberman.

[stillcool]

25. What did Obama say...

You know the words he used...

"I know you've had a tough time with for-profit charter schools here in Ohio," Obama said. "That is why I'll work with Gov. Strickland to hold for-profit charter schools accountable."

Obama also said there's a difference between his support for school choice and that of McCain.

"John McCain will say he's arguing for choice by allowing money and students to drain out of the public schools," Obama said. "I believe in the public schools, but I also believe in fostering competition within the public schools."

[4lbs]

16. Obama already pretty much mentioned this in his acceptance speech at the DNC.

Remember how he said hire more good teachers and pay them better? That's what publically-funded charter schools does.

First, creating a lot of new publically-funded charter schools automatically means having to hire many more teachers to teach in them.

Then, you pay the good ones more money as a reward for doing a good job.

In my school-age years (mainly high school and college), I've had quite a few teachers that were obviously just going through the motions. I actually learned more in those situations just ignoring them and reading the textbook on my own, as well as doing my own research. Then I just take the test, get my A or B, and leave, all without listening to the teacher that was just winging it. I've had enough of that. ENOUGH!

So, yes, I do support hiring more ** GOOD ** teachers. If the creation of more publically funded charter schools does this, and allows ANY student to attend, then I'm all for it.

[LisaM]

19. My father was a public school teacher and he had to deal with a bunch of crap

He actually had a student (on a multiple choice test) pick that Woodrow Wilson (Woodrow Wilson!) was ultimately hanged upside down when dead and stoned by an angry mob.

Do you think my father taught that nonsense to the cretin who chose that answer?

No, he did not. But that kid could, under these guidelines, keep my father from getting a merit raise. I've had teachers who were better than others. But ultimately, we are all entitled to the same education and if you get morons who think Woodrow Wilson was stoned in the mix, you, as the teacher, should not be penalized for it.

[4lbs]

20. It does seem to boil down to how to evaluate a teacher's performance

in a proper way to determine merit.

[LisaM]

21. There are so many mitigating factors

This is why teachers obviously need unions.

[WriteDown]

34. To the cries of ,"Normalcy be damned!"

:evilgrin: (vague Woodrow Wilson) reference.

[magellan]

22. Why can't we just fund public schools properly again?

It's the systematic defunding of public schools and the matching paltry salaries paid to teachers that's mostly responsible for the current condition of public education. You get what you pay for.

[MichiganVote]

54. Because that would make too much sense. Taxes FOR US tax payers? Anyone?

[PittPoliSci]

23. stop saying stupid shit!

The reason you won so many early primaries is because you weren't afraid to be a progressive voice. Knock this shit off immediately, or you will lose.

[stillcool]

26. What was 'stupid shit'?

can you tell me what words Obama used that you find to be 'stupid shit'?

"I know you've had a tough time with for-profit charter schools here in Ohio," Obama said. "That is why I'll work with Gov. Strickland to hold for-profit charter schools accountable."

Obama also said there's a difference between his support for school choice and that of McCain.

"John McCain will say he's arguing for choice by allowing money and students to drain out of the public schools," Obama said. "I believe in the public schools, but I also believe in fostering competition within the public schools."

[LisaM]

30. Schools shouldn't be for profit

IMHO, charter schools reek of Reagan and his systematic privatization of everything.

Fund public schools properly (and eliminate some of the top heaviness) and everything will be fine.

[Buenaventura]

37. Privatize profit, socialize loss - the standard policy of both parties and their masters

[stillcool]

38. The schools he was referring to..

are already there. I really am failing to understand what the stupid shit is...

"I know you've had a tough time with for-profit charter schools here in Ohio," Obama said. "That is why I'll work with Gov. Strickland to hold for-profit charter schools accountable."

Obama also said there's a difference between his support for school choice and that of McCain.

"John McCain will say he's arguing for choice by allowing money and students to drain out of the public schools," Obama said. "I believe in the public schools, but I also believe in fostering competition within the public schools."

[LisaM]

40. So shut them down.

They aren't performing.

Public schools shouldn't be for profit, and I for one do not want a nickel of my tax money going to charter schools or to vouchers.

[stillcool]

44. Do you live in Ohio?

[LisaM]

46. Certainly not.

I consider education a national issue however, and a lot of school funding (especially universities) comes from federal taxes.

[stillcool]

48. I get so confused..

I'm failing to see how Obama's mentioning the problems with Charter Schools in Ohio, is a reason to say he needs to stop talking shit.

[LisaM]

50. I didn't say that

that was someone else.

I would prefer a candidate who rejected charter schools (and vouchers) altogether.

[stillcool]

51. oh...sorry...

my mistake. Perhaps you could explain to me what he said that has caused such a brouhaha?

[Buenaventura]

42. "competition within the public schools" - let's see, we've got football, no-child-left...

and now an opportunity for publicly funded segregation.

[stillcool]

45. What am I missing that you are reading..

in this article? Can you point me to the words Obama said that you find problematic?

[heliarc]

76. Exactly... Bingo. nt

[alstephenson]

58. MOST charter schools are operated by non-profits.

And they ARE public schools.

[heliarc]

63. They receive a subsidy that often runs out.

putting the pressure on parents to supplement after the school loses more and more money.

[Hannah Bell]

41. The title you posted this under isn't the title in the original article.

Disingenuous post & disingenuous questions you ask...

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. That was the title when I posted it

And if you don't believe me, just ask Google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=E8o&q=%22Obama+embraces+charter+schools+during+Dayton+campaign+stop+today%22&btnG=Search

[elleng]

49. Charter schools ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

[alstephenson]

61. Thank you.

I hate when people get all pissed off about something they obviously know nothing about.

[elleng]

70. Right! And such an

important issue!

PS, if anyone's interested, I live in DC, and charters are among the only 'decent' schools, due to many many years of deficient administration.

[heliarc]

77. Years of deficient pay...

The republicans have been sabotaging pay for the public school teachers and administrators a living wage for years.. the result is what happened to Walter Reed Veteran's hospital... give the administration over to private industry and watch it fall apart as the Subsidy runs out.

[ohio2007]

68. Have officials at the NEA been asked for their opinion on his stand ?

.. pay teachers based on performance and replace those who aren't up to the job, ...

[Zhade]

69. Why the automatic assumption that we independent voters are CONSERVATIVE?

So many of us are independent because the Dem party isn't liberal enough!

[Freddie Stubbs]

84. Why do you assume that charter schools only appeal to conservatives?

:shrug:

[JoFerret]

79. Boo. Hiss

Hiss.Boo.

[Alter Ego]

85. Is he talking about doing this for charter schools or ALL schools?

I was under the impression Obama had made it clear that he knew merit pay, if implemented as is, would be completely broken because there's no metric to base it on.

[MadHound]

88. If it wasn't because Palin was so damn scary, I would be going Green over shit like this

Obama is another goddamn corporate politician who is bent on privatizing everything he can. Sure, he talks a better game than the other side, but the fact remains he is simply another corporately controlled candidate. If it wasn't for the fact that Palin could easily wind up as President, I would be done with Obama and going Green.

Hey, Obama, how about doing something really radical, like repealing NCLB, fully funding our public schools, upping the pay for teachers, and providing them with the resources they need. Oh, that's right, you know you have a captive audience at this point and can do virtually anything you want because people like me are scared shitless over Palin.

Either way, I have a bad feeling it's going to be a long four years again.