AP News Alert - Major union withdraws support from Howard Dean

[blazinjason]

AP News Alert

The Associated Press
Saturday, February 7, 2004; 6:00 PM

WASHINGTON - Major union withdraws support from Howard Dean, official says.

[jenk]

1. ouch

even though I'm not a Dean supporter, I don't agree with this. You have to stick with who you endorsed through thick and thin! What happens if dean makes a miraculous comeback or at least becomes competitive? Do they re-endorse him? would he accept?

[loudnclear]

58. This is sad, sad, sad. They are allowing the media to control them

I sure hope Dean does not quit the race now. They all -- Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton, Clark, Edwards---should stay in until the bitter end. If Kerry is the only one speaking...we will have no one speaking to all of our issues.

[Jack_Dawson]

2. AFSCME is weak

[Darth_Kitten]

3. Seems like it....

:eyes:

[eaprez]

4. If you mean

weak as in "lame" for taking back their endorsement -- that's one thing - but if you mean weak as in their endorsement means nothing because they're a weak union, well that's just wrong.

[Jack_Dawson]

39. I mean weak as in taking back their endorsement.

Shows lack of character and integrity.

[annxburns]

5. This blows ...

.. and is really unfair. It is not Dean's fault the media crucified him. Lost a ton of respect for the head of this union.

[saoirse]

56. Very disappointed in my union right now

First, I was really disappointed when they gave Dean their endorsement - it was premature, I thought, and the rationale for it was not at all well articulated. And now to compound matters they back off with their candidate still in the race? That's just flat out wrong.

AFSCME is a good union, but whoever's in charge of endorsements really f'd up.

[MaineDem]

6. Not good

I don't care who the candidate is it looks bad for the union to withdraw support. Makes the union look very weak.

[LiberalFighter]

25. It undermines the union and...

possibly disillusion their members further.

[robcon]

48. More importantly, it makes Dean look weaker than he was.

n/t

[stickdog]

7. What kind of an alert is that? What official said that?

What purpose does filing a story like that serve?

Did Dean just win Washington or something?

[Just Me]

8. My thoughts, exactly,...what state did he take *LOL*,...

,...good Gawd have I become the obsessed skeptic :D

[Ernesto]

12. Agreed..... LBN?????

[LostInTheMaise]

9. What a crock against Dean

If I were Howard I would reel in my supporters and go third party. Enough of this DNC controlled nonsense. I will pledge 1500 to Dean if he fights against this criminal act.

[Calico4000]

32. Wow

Great plan. So would you also send a congratulations on winning in 2004 letter to Bush at the same time?

[revcarol]

10. The union members were promised a vote on whom they would endorse.

The "board," McEntee decided they would endorse Dean.

Union members furious.

Now McEntee wants Kerry. STILL no vote by the members. Boy, they aren't going to take this lightly!!

[LostInTheMaise]

11. This calls for a Dean third party

These union bosses need to be shown that honest is critical. Every election cycle honest candidates get hosed and we MUST stop rewarding them with our pious votes.

Dean third party all the way!!!

[aquart]

13. Amazing. Trying to make Dean into Nader.

Why, something like this could destroy any chance of his picking up Democratic delegates in any state, now wouldn't it?

So why would you want to do that to him, I wonder?

Because I'm pretty sure it's nothing Dean wants or ever even hinted.

So again, why are you trying to imply that he would do something that throws the election to Bush?

Please tell me, I really want to know.

[LostInTheMaise]

14. Because Dean is getting hosed by the DNC

To keep empowering the DNC by letting them do this to good and honest candidates only lets them keep doing it. Understand? It's time for a progressive Waterloo.

[donco6]

15. And Bush for four more years

Yippee!

:(

[LostInTheMaise]

16. It may end the rabid DNC control of real Liberals

I can deal with the defeat of the DNC if it allows true Liberals to get in the race.

[donco6]

22. I can't . . .

. . . deal with four more years of fascism. And I have to wonder about anyone who can.

[Oreegone]

17. Get Real

Whoever wins the nomination better be backed by us all.....we swim together or drown together....get a grip.

[LostInTheMaise]

20. I am not a member of those that try to destroy Dean

And I will not give those that lie about Dean my vote.

Honesty is still a value I respect. The DNC has lost mine.

[JoFerret]

19. Get real

defeating Bush is the main idea here. Howard Dean has said so himself. thank you Dr Dean for knowing what is at stake. And thank you for all that you have done and will continue to do as a man of core values that matter.

[pacifictiger]

27. throwing the baby out with the bathwater does not make sense

To change anything is to first realize that the insiders from either party have had a stranglehold on this country for way too long. Better to first try to change things from within. Success of real change at this stage of the game is much more likely from within than from without.

[NNN0LHI]

34. Bush and his minions agree with you n/t

[Unforgiven]

33. Yes, You are Right

as an acting AFSCME Local President, I can tell you that the actions coming out of the International Headquarters are not at all well received. As was posted previously International 'jumped the gun' and endorsed dean, somewhat pre-maturely in my opinion.

Now pulling the rug out from under Dean looks well.......suspect or at the very least unprofessional. I would have thought they could have waited a bit longer on this decision.

Myself, I have supported Dean from the beginning because he was pro-Union. That was an important factor along with the fact that many of our members preferred him as well.

If Dean goes down, my next personal choice at this point would be Kucinich, but I think we all know where that is headed. If Dean recoups I don't have to say how silly we look. But here again, just maybe, McEntee has insider information that we are not privy to.

Willing to entertain any other conspiracy theories or comments.

[NashVegas]

51. Looks Like McEntee Screwed up BIG Time

First, when he made the call to back Dean w/out listening to the rank & file. Then when they pulled out midstream.

It makes them look like dishonorable, political expedients.

[JoFerret]

18. It's vital for all working people that Bush is defeated

you do what you have to do.

[LostInTheMaise]

21. Not if it means supporting dishonest people

Liars and cheats will not get my vote.

[donco6]

23. So I take it you won't be voting for anyone?

[shanti]

44. *cough*

ahem :eyes:

[JoFerret]

26. Politics is a rough contact sport

Dr. Dean has been a great candidate. Still is. But - defeating Bush is HIS and MY main goal.

[LiberalFighter]

24. I have no respect for Gerald McEntee

He should had waited until Dean had dropped out before endorsing another candidate. He should know the saying "Don't change horses in the middle of the stream." Doing otherwise in this case does not encourage respect of his judgement from his own members.

It shows that McEntee is not astute in the ways of politics as well as not being an honorable man. Personally, I think that all of labor should had refrained from officially endorsing any candidate until after the primaries. The best choice would had been to encourage his members to go out and support their choices.

One fact that they fail to understand is by waiting until the primaries or until a clear choice has been determined is that the campaign contributions for both the primary and general election cycle would go to the winner. McEntee's way results in contributions being made to Dean in the primary cycle but not to the eventual winner if it is not Dean. That means the eventual winner receives only half of the possible contribution allowable under law.

[pacifictiger]

29. I think the corruptness of a lot of union leaders

in the past have given the democratic party a bad name with many who are now republicans. They have used workers for their own power tactics much as the republicans are now using well meaning church goers for their own dirty deeds.

[dansolo]

31. I find the timing especially suspicious

It is strange that they would withdraw their support on the day where Dean is making his strongest showing. I suspect some sort of backroom deals going on. I don't believe that early primary endorsements should be withdrawn, otherwise they become highly suspect, especially when each move was made towards the current frontrunner.

[revcarol]

40. McEntee made the board support Dean

after the union members were promised that they could vote as individuals for the candidate the union would support!! The members I am in touch with all around the country were FURIOUS.

Now he wants to make the union go with KERRY!! And he will further infuriate the members because they won't get the PROMISED VOTE. A good many wanted to endorse Kucinich, the ideal labor candidate.

But we'll never know, will we, while he plays dictator.

[LiberalFighter]

53. When is he up for election?

Will there be another candidate to run against McEntee?

What is the structure setup for political policy making regarding endorsements?

If you have a local union newsletter have your members express their views about this situation. What would it take for other AFSCME newsletters to have letters expressing the same view?

I don't recommend having the letters written in the community newspapers.

[LiberalFighter]

52. The one difference from yesteryears..

is that union members are not going to automatically support what their leaders tell them.

Personally, I would encourage every one of my union members to:
1) get involved in the primary campaigns
2) contribute as individuals to the campaign of their choice
3) write letters to the newspapers about why they are supporting a candidate
4) collect signatures for the candidates of their choice so that they are on the ballot in the primary election
5) get them involved on election day
6) make sure they are registered to vote and help register others to vote

AND WHEN THE NOMINEE HAS BEEN DETERMINED

Do everything to get rid of bush

[Unforgiven]

59. Pretty much

what we did in the 2002 elections here. Our Local supported McBride while the Union leaders supported Reno. McBride beat Reno, but not by much and of course you know the rest of the story.

[JailForBush]

28. Washingtonians are Incapable of Making an Intelligent Choice

See my post at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=33639#33641

Washingtonians probably would have chosen Joe Lieberman, if he was still in the race. They never fail to amaze me.

However, in fairness, we should consider the possiblity of election fraud. There's been LOTS of news about that over the last few years, and the media don't come any more corrupt than the Seattle Times, Seattle Post-Intelligencer and Seattle Weekly. Just days ago, I voted NO on a Seattle Schools levy at 6 p.m. I asked about the turnout and was told I was about the 30th to vote! Yet the next day, the media reported the levy passed easily with enough votes to validate the results. It's possible, but I found it awfully suspicious.

Washington's unions suck, too. They're as prone to endorsing bums as the general public. What the unions do for workers is anyone's guess.

What a crock.

[stevedeshazer]

35. Let's see here

Washingtonians would have chosen Joe Lieberman.

Seattle's two daily and main weekly newspapers are corrupt.

The caucus votes may be fraudulent.

The unions suck and endorse bums.

You vote no on a school levy and insist that the results are suspect.

Can you provide anything beyond your opinion that your assertions are true? If so, I'll reciprocate by providing evidence that unions do a great deal for workers. And I won't have to guess about it.

on edit: syntax error

[Unforgiven]

37. Thank You

we were both posting about the same time, had I seen your post beforehand it would not have been necessary for me to respond.





I am Proud of our Local and all the members in it!!!! :)

[stevedeshazer]

38. My family would be screwed

Without the union my wife belongs to. Not to mention the one my late grandfather belonged to.

Perhaps the poster may still respond, but I'm sensing a hit and run here.

[JailForBush]

46. Most Seattle Familes ARE Screwed

If your family is getting special favors, then please tell us more.

[JailForBush]

41. Responses

"Washingtonians would have chosen Joe Lieberman."

Past Picks: Gary Locke, Paul Schell, Greg Nickels, Par Robertson...

Nuff said.

"Seattle's two daily and main weekly newspapers are corrupt."

Obviously.

"The caucus votes may be fraudulent."

You got it.

"The unions suck and endorse bums."

Consider Campaign 2003. Seattle unions were making endorsements before all the candidates had even filed! And, yes, they endorsed some real stinkaroos.

"You vote no on a school levy and insist that the results are suspect."

EVERY ELECTION CAMPAIGN in the Soviet State of Seattle is suspect. Even the corrupt media have been spouting leaks about election fraud.

"Can you provide anything beyond your opinion that your assertions are true? If so, I'll reciprocate by providing evidence that unions do a great deal for workers. And I won't have to guess about it."

Well, my union was the Seattle Education Association, an "autonomous affiliate" of the Washington Education Association - possibly the most maligned teachers union in America. Granted, the National Education Association empire wrote the book on corruption. But more mainstream unions hardly have their act together.

Let's look at it another way. Would you not agree that unions should be speaking out for workers forcefully? Would you agree that they should be educating the public and blowing the whistle on corporate corruption?

With that in mind, kindly post the URL's of some Seattle/Washington union websites that really tell it like it is, educate the public, attack corrupt elements and promote some really classy candidates.

I'm working on a new website that will touch on some of these issues, so any links you can provide will be very useful. Thanks!

[stevedeshazer]

43. You still haven't provided any information

You include only an anecdote about a past union you assert you belonged to.

You haven't posted any sources for what you assert. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Don't you have any sources for your information?

[JailForBush]

45. Right back at ya...

"You still haven't provided any information."

And you have??? Where are the URL's I asked for? How hard is it to prove that your union cares enough to do something as simple as create a credible website?

"You include only an anecdote about a past union you assert you belonged to."

AN ANECDOTE??? Do you not read the newspapers? For crying out loud, what has the National/Washington/Seattle Education Association ever done for education? Where was the union when some FORTY teachers abandoned Rainier Beach High School? Why didn't the union stand up to the late John Stanford, who was recruited by Big Business? Why do the unions have nothing to say about Bill Gates? Remember that pedophile principal, Al Jones? No union concerns there! It doesn't make sense.

"You haven't posted any sources for what you assert. Zero. Zip. Nada."

Sorry, I don't have time to track down links for information about the pedophile principal Al Jones, sex maniac Clint Webb, corporate whore John Stanford, Bill Gates' bizarre K-12 Leadership Institute and all the other scourges the teachers unions either ignore or support. Nor do I have time to track down links to general union campaign endorsements. You know the truth. Any readers who don't live in Seattle can visit the Seattle Times and Seattle Post-Intelligencer online and search the archives.

Before you search for specific derelicts or criminals, do a general search for "Seattle Education Association." See if you can figure out who the head of the union is. I think you'll be amazed at how invisible that disgusting operation is.

Then see if you can find some articles praising mainstream unions for all they've done to protect workers from Boeing, George W. Bush, etc. Find out why school bus drivers adore unions; oops, they lost their jobs - nevermind!

"Don't you have any sources for your information?"

Don't you have sources for YOUR "information"?

[LiberalFighter]

55. Then why don't you move to a place that is not corrupt?

[Unforgiven]

36. What the Unions do for workers

if you had ever needed one you would know.

[JailForBush]

42. Huh?

I spent sixteen years in public education, and BOY did I need a union.

Punch line: My union stabbed me in the back just as viciously as the administration.

Gee, I'm really jealous of the more mainstream unions that have done so much to protect Boeing employees, school custodians, school bus drivers, etc., etc.

LOL.

[NNN0LHI]

47. That is your side of the story

I would like to hear what the other sides opinion is of you is before I judge what you are saying is accurate or not.

Don

[Unforgiven]

49. Well

I really hadn't had that much in the way of complaints about our Union up to and until the time of the Dean fiasco. AFSCME has done a great job of filing one lawsuit after another and ULP's as well against our governor here in Jebworld at least at the state level.

Some we have actually been able to make some headway on. On others we have lost or held ground.
On the local and the district level the staff and other locals are the greatest people to work with, period!

If your Union didn't work for you that's damn unfortunate, but please don't paint what you don't know with your bitterness about your particular situation. You have no idea what Jeb has been doing to state workers here, AFSCME has been our only saving grace.

[LiberalFighter]

54. Unions are only as good as the active members.

It is the inactive members that create the problems.

A strong union requires the support of every member.

[Unforgiven]

57. Not Only

The inactive members, but the scabs as well. The very people who benefit from Union wins and sit back and enjoy the the fruits of others accomplishments.

These people in general I believe to be self centered and selfish.

You know the old, "Hooray for me, f#&k you!" mentality.

It's all about ME!


Much like * and the current appointistration.

[rincons land]

30. Dean's toast

n/t

[leesa]

50. Makes me furious what the GOP media did to this man.

And of course our GOP controlled DNC/DLC went happily along. Can't have someone in office who would take away the gobs of money they rake in for doing special favors, like starting wars to please the military-industrial complex. KaaaaChing!

[truthisfreedom]

60. umm.. when i visit that link, all that appears is that exact sentence.

major union blah blah blah. where's the article?