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Truth Teller Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:16 PM
Original message
Poll: Public opposes aid to carmakers (61% to 36%)
Source: Detroit Free Press

Most Americans oppose using government money to help Detroit’s automakers, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released today.

The poll, conducted Monday and Tuesday, found that 61% oppose federal loan assistance and 36% favor it. “Seven in 10 say that a bailout would be unfair to American taxpayers,” CNN Polling Director Keating Holland said.

...

http://www.freep.com/article/20081203/BUSINESS01/81203112

Read more: http://www.freep.com/article/20081203/BUSINESS01/81203112
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. With proper oversight, it's not only the right thing to do, it'd be good for all of us.
Why on earth we would support bailing out the Wall Street and tax cuts for the rich while we oppose loans to the auto industry, whose failures could cause a real Depression, and universal health care for Main Street is beyond me.

Just think, if the auto industry goes under, so do all its suppliers and retail and service providers who are supported by their employees. Lots and lots of people will be without health care coverage then. Guess we'd all be on Medicaid!

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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. What next, bail out the insurance agencies, why not, we bailed out the credit industry.
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 09:29 PM by superconnected
Color me wayyy opposed.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Can you suggest an alternate plan for the 3 million people who would lose their jobs?
If the Auto companies go under there will be 3 million people filing for unemployment. That would take up a rather large chunk of that money. Then there would be the drain on the health care system when a large percentage of those people need emergency treatments but are not covered under an insurance plan. Hospitals cannot turn away emergency care so that would be a massive hit on them and they would likely be asking for a bailout next. After congress denies it, following your suggestion, hospitals all over the country begin to fold leaving a few hundred thousand more without jobs, or insurance - also, many in need cannot get needed treatments because there are no hospitals in their areas. Then there are more people filing for unemployment costing us more money. The jobs don't return because entire swaths of the country are virtual dustbowls of impoverishment. No work equals no money equals no education equals no investment equals no incoming businesses. People leave states like Michigan in droves and begin to clog up the employment offices and hospitals in other states causing a domino effect. Soon states are refusing to admit incoming residents without proof of employment creating a generational underclass unable to get jobs and therefore access to basic services.

Please tell me how your plan prevents this kind of thing from happening.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yes .. take the $8.8 TRILLION and create GREEN jobs, unions -- ELECTRIC CARS ---
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:16 PM by defendandprotect
Remove age restrictions from Medicare --

We can no longer burn fossil fuels --

Capitalism and capitalists are finished ...
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Whoa...
:crazy:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Too fast for you ... ???????
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 11:20 PM by defendandprotect
We had ELECTRIC CARS and TROLLEYS to begin with ---

The 1960 Democratic Platform which JFK ran on called for

"NATIONALIZING OIL INDUSTRY"--

JFK was ending the oil depletion allowance --

You do know all that -- right???

!!!!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. Actually, it sounds like the rapture ready folks...
Crash EVERYTHING to make way for utopia.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Well, certainly you can "crash" oil companies and corrupt capitalism for me --
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 11:51 PM by defendandprotect
If you want another $8.8 TRILLION ride on the Capitalist Merry-go-Round,

go alone --

We dumped Capitalism for the New Deal which regulated it --

Unregulated Capitalism is merely organized crime --

It's a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill System" intended to move wealth and

resources of a nation from the many to the few -- and it does that quite

efficiently as we are seeing again.

And, speaking of "rapture ready folks"...

Capitalism was invented by Vatican to run their Papal States

when Feudalism was no longer sufficient.

It's only been around a few hundred years. Time to move on --


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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. Proving the point
Some of the goals in your post prior to this are worthy ones to transition into, but one senses that your actual agenda is far broader, and that you're using present circumstances to advance it (just as fundies might use rising discord in the middle east to bolster biblical prophesies about the end times).
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. My "actual agenda" is well stated --
Edited on Thu Dec-04-08 12:50 AM by defendandprotect
Nationalize oil
--Dump Capitalism --

I've been advocating these steps always -- NOT since new crash of capitalism --

Your emphasis on "transition into" suggests a reluctance and fear of change --

I sense you have a limited progressive/liberal agenda--

If you're imagining my agenda, spit it out and get it in the open to be addressed ...


The US/CIA covertly use "Fundies" for their agenda --

That's why Nixon armed right-wing/religiously fanatical Israel --

AND today US and Israeli weapons production is so intertwined it's almost

impossible to tell them apart.

We are more running that country and it's warmongering than Israelis are.

Our foothold in the Middle East --

We/CIA created the Taliban/Al Qaeda via Pakistan --

WE went into Afghanistan 6 months before the Russians entered in order to

BAIT Russia into Afghanistan ...in hopes of giving them a Vietnam type experience.

The elites have long used "missionaries" to soften heads of natives before they

began takeover of country.

The PNAC pined for a new "Pearl Harbor" -- look what happened--!!

I think you're looking for clues in all the wrong places ...




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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. Are you asleep?
We already bailed out the insurance industry: AIG, largest insurance company in the world to the tune of $150 Billion, no strings attached.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. 'Cause capitalism is great -- especially for those getting pay-off's...
to keep it going --

Like American car makers working for EXXON-MOBIL --

Let them bail them out--!!!
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revolve Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
56. We bailed out AIG
What does that stand for?
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. nothing here move along
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. "The poll...found the greatest opposition...among Republicans, at 70%."
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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. They fail now, or they fail later
Question is, how much of our money will the greedy CEOs (and upper management) be allowed to suck up and park safely offshore before they fail?

As soon as there is an American vehicle that is right for our times, whatever company produces it will not be in any need of any bailout. If that company is GM, Ford, or Chrysler, great. If not, well, then, that's the price of making bad business decisions.
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Truth Teller Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The Big Three make many good cars
Is there a particular model other carmakers produce you feel the Big Three can't match here?
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. The Big 3 have been screwing up for the last 50 years
GM made the electric car then took it out of production
They don't have anything to match the Prius
They don't have anything to match an old Saab.
When I first started buying cars, American cars you thought dead at 100,000 miles
I drove my Volvo 225,000 miles
Re watch the movie Tucker, the big 3 opposed seat belts.
Every good idea to enhance safety and effiecency they have fought tooth and nail.
FORD Found On Road Dead
GM bought Hummer
Chrysler already had 1 bailout
Their idea has been to find good car manufacturers and then screw them up. Chrysler Benz
they even made Mercedes that sucked, and were ugly.
Of all of them Ford is the only one that I have not personally had problems with, except for the Pinto
that my mom had, you remember that car, the one with the exploding gs tank?


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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The govt pushed tax credits for guzzlers
That's the reason they were made.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. Wonder who was behind that crime --?? Elites in government --!!!
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 11:25 PM by defendandprotect
Stop voting to put the rich into Congress --

We need public financing of campaigns with strong citizen controls --

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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. That's true for 2001-2004, then peoplebecame aware of peak oil and rising prices
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. American have to learn to behave more like Europeans in protecting ourselves ...
ourselves, NOT capitalism and corporations --!!!
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm for it.
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lparsons Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Before people rip on American cars...
Read this month's consumer reports, with the data on 2008 model year cars. Look in the mid-size segment, where most brands are most competitive - this includes Toyota Camry (and Prius), Honda Accord, and the likes. Look at the cars that were rated the highest in these results, and then look at the cars from that list that are reasonable for most people to buy (ie, exclude the hybrids).

The top car is the Ford Fusion 4cyl, FWD. It beats the non-hybrid Camry by a significant margin. It beats the Accord by an even larger margin.

There are quality cars coming out of our country. They are coming out at prices that people can afford, and with equal mileage ratings to cars shipped here from overseas.

That said, I agree that there is plenty wrong with the big 3 (executive "compensation" comes to mind immediately). But if people want to see them go under, it should be for a more valid reason than the quality record they had a decade (or more) ago.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. If they're not ELECTRIC doesn't matter -- we can no longer burn oil ....
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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. So, which Japanese, Korean, or German car maker is selling an all electric car?
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:16 PM by TommyO
Which of them doesn't sell an SUV?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. American car maker sold ELECTRIC CARS in CALIF until crushed ...
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:25 PM by defendandprotect
THOUSANDS OF THEM--!!

See movie "Who Killed The Electric Car? -- probably ar your library ...

These were beautiful high performance cars everyone wanted to buy --

they crushed them --

Our auto makers are making cars for Exxon-Mobil, not consumers --

nor for well-being of planet --

Many changes should be made and we could lead the way --

Government can raise a corp to specifically build ELECTRIC CARS --

subsidize both ends of it -- mfg and purchase -- and replace every gas-guzzler --


NATIONALIZE OIL -- SAVE THE PLANET --!!!

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lparsons Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. How do we acheive...
... electric car infrastructure without consuming tremendous amounts of fossil fuel?

I certainly support the development of electric cars, but there are plenty of problems with trying to move all cars to all-electric.

Infrastructure is one huge hurdle - many homes couldn't handle charging a car right now, and of course we would need some way to charge cars away from home or we'd be far more limited in where to go when we want to go away from home.

Another problem is the batteries, in particular their disposal. Where do we put hundreds of pounds of lead when a car's battery is no longer holding charge? This problem would dwarf any problem we've had with car batteries before.

And how will we fund expanding the electrical grid for people charging their new cars? And how will that work be done? It is good work to do, but it won't be done quickly, or for free. If we doubled the amperage of every house in America, that would be a tremendous burden to accommodate.

And where will the electricity come from? Don't forget we have a lot of oil, gas, and coal burning power plants in this country. Fossil fuel power plants are generally the quickest to build, which would be a significant consideration if we need to rapidly increase the power for the nation's grid. But if we burn more fuel in our power plants to avoid burning fuel in our cars, are we really saving that much? It would be great to say that we can generate all this additional power from wind, solar, hydro, and geothermal ... but could we?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. First ...
let me recommend you see the movie --

Second, despite the political nonsense we hear every day, your life is controlled

by capitalism/corporatism. The real world has many more possibilities.


How do we acheive...
... electric car infrastructure without consuming tremendous amounts of fossil fuel?


What do you mean by "tremendous amounts" ..compared with what we are using now?

And in what manner are you imagining this?


You open a plant -- you build ELECTRIC CARS -- build a few windmills next to it --

put an electrical generator in -- put some solar panels on plant ..whatever ..


I certainly support the development of electric cars, but there are plenty of problems with trying to move all cars to all-electric.

It's not "DEVELOPMENT" -- they've long been here -- and improvement will occur in

in compounding leaps and bounds --

There are also "plenty of problems" with Global Warming--!!!



Infrastructure is one huge hurdle - many homes couldn't handle charging a car right now, and of course we would need some way to charge cars away from home or we'd be far more limited in where to go when we want to go away from home.

Where do you get these ideas ...?

The US government subsidized the setting up of gas stations on every corner --

while the oil companies bought and tore up trolley service and tried their best to

destroy rail - subway -- bus services --!!

In California, no problem charging battery in homes ---

Parking lots/streets would have posts to plug into --

Another problem is the batteries, in particular their disposal. Where do we put hundreds of pounds of lead when a car's battery is no longer holding charge? This problem would dwarf any problem we've had with car batteries before.

They're rechargeable -- and plans are to greatly improve them ...

things you aren't hearing about.

PLUS weight of cars can easily be changed. New materials as strong as steel, but lighter.

Materials which have paint color built into them ... no painting--etc etc etc


And how will we fund expanding the electrical grid for people charging their new cars? And how will that work be done? It is good work to do, but it won't be done quickly, or for free. If we doubled the amperage of every house in America, that would be a tremendous burden to accommodate.

Covered above -- and we have electric sources everywhere -- lighter cars, as well.

And where will the electricity come from? Don't forget we have a lot of oil, gas, and coal burning power plants in this country. Fossil fuel power plants are generally the quickest to build, which would be a significant consideration if we need to rapidly increase the power for the nation's grid. But if we burn more fuel in our power plants to avoid burning fuel in our cars, are we really saving that much? It would be great to say that we can generate all this additional power from wind, solar, hydro, and geothermal ... but could we?

Fossil fuels HAVE TO GO if you want a chance at survival.

Windmills go up very quickly -- in CA in only four months during their FAKE ENRON crisis,

they put up windmills for 175,000 homes--!!! FOUR MONTHS-!! Did you hear about that-???

The "power grid" is BS -- it's monopoly and NOT the way to go.

You want LOCAL generation of electricity.

Why do you keep suggesting running a plant to build gas-guzzlers uses LESS fuel than a

plant to build ELECTRIC CARS--???

SEE THE MOVIE -- SEE THE MOVIE --
***********************************



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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. You're right, the EV1 existed, and was destroyed by GM
and some of the patents sold to Chevron.

You didn't answer my questions though.


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Your questions are made moot by reality ...
However ... why go with what lessers are doing --

NATIONALIZE OIL -- SAVE THE PLANET --!!!

******************************************
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ElectricGrid Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
67. How about letting them go under because they are bad at business...
There has to be winners and losers for free markets to work. Companies that screw up need to pay for it. Sure it will hurt the people who work there, but these things have to happen.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. The auto industry is holding us hostage..
and the media is helping them. If they go bankrupt, who does it hurt? Certainly not them. They write off a bunch of debt, let go of their workers, and re-open shop with a work-force more in keeping with their business model...sans those pesky workers rights. If they get the bail-out, that's very cool too! Funny how this shit is happening now, isn't it?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
57. I think it's more like extortion than hostage taking. "If you don't give us the money,
bad things will happen not just to me but to you, too." ;)
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leftinportland Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thought the Big 3 were asking for a loan...
CNN keeps calling it a bailout - for that matter so does rest of MSM. Loan the $$ and if they default...we'll at least own the manufacturing capacity of a GM or a Ford.
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Everything's a bailout. Doncha know?
Welcome to 2008 and welcome to DU.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is capitalism failing again -- keep on saying it --!!!
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:11 PM by defendandprotect
The auto companies SHOULD go -- and their CEO/boards and Executives with them --

Why in the hell should we REWARD purposeful ignorance in car making in their

alliance with oil companies?

Save the workers and move them to new plants and build ELECTRIC CARS --

NATIONALIZE OIL -- save the planet--!!!
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. War on the middle class and American manufacturing
Apply the same rules to the banks please. Oh yeah, too late, right.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. Looks like the propaganda machine of the Asian carmakers has won.
The hatred shown towards domestic cars is a perfect example of manufactured reality and manufactured opinion.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. When domestic carmakers make cars for Exxon-Mobil not consumers ...
that alliance is criminal --

and furthered pollution and Global Warming --

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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. It's more like once bitten twice shy, and at $20K if they don't work well
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 11:37 PM by digidigido
it's an expensive bite. When I was growing up we had American cars. In the 70's they got
overconfident and made crap. So I bought Japanese, and guess what, they were great.
So they made their own bed. If I can buy a product from a company that has a history of
making it right. and that's treated me right, why would I buy from a company that doesn't?
If they want to nationalize the industry, and put smart people in charge, and get rid of the
corporate mentality that's hurt the industry for a very long time, I'd listen to that.
If Americans were part owners of their own car companies, then we're all in this together.
But any plan to help has to include getting rid of 1/2 the mid level management and
getting rid of the people who made the bad decisions in the first place. Maybe the CEO
of Southwest should run things. That is a CEO worth his salary, anyone who was farsighted
enough to lock in his gas prices at under $40 a barrel when the rest of the industry was
paying $150 a barrel is a visionary
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. I can't believe more people wanted to bailout billionaires
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:30 PM by BreatheOnMe
than wanted to bailout (which is actually just a loan!) companies that employ millions of average of Americans. I understand why Republicans want to see the Big 3 go under but I'm not sure why some many others do. Just politically speaking, if the Democrats are in power while the entire US auto industry goes under, they will lose much of the Midwest electorally for decades. Economically, the US automakers going under would make the national recession far worse.

Any Democrat who opposes the bailout of the US auto industry but supported the bailout of the financial institutions needs to be challenged in the primaries whenever they are up for re-election.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. Bingo!
We have a winner! The republicans want the auto industry to go under so they can blame the democrats, which indeed would ruin the chances of the dems to ever win the midwest again.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
41. No -- we want the CEO's and boards/execs to go --
We'll support workers but switch them to electric cars --

I support NO bailouts except to help homeowners restructure or resettle in new housing --

or for job creation ---
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Fine...require the current CEOs/manages to be fired
Require the companies to focus on electric cars. But doing nothing is not an option.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. ...but only YOU mentioned "doing nothing" ...!!!
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. If you liked the Lehman fallout...
you'll love the Big Three collateral damage.

In related news..."Rassumssen announced the other day, that 69% of Republican believe Sarah Palin was an asset to the ticket. Also, Republicans' preferences NOW for a presidential candidate in 2012 are: Sarah Palin, 64%; Mike Huckabee 12%; Mitt Romney 11%; others or no preference 13%."

Beware what you wish for.
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. But we don't make the decisons, Nancy Pelosi does.
Nancy Pelosi is running things now and she has said an auto comapany
bankruptcy is out of the question. Just as she said impeachment was
off the table back in 2006.

Nancy Pelosi is setting policy for the Obama administration, clearly.

You thought you voted for Obama, but it is Pelosi's government, obviously.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. And where is our LEVERAGE on Pelosi, Obama. Reid -- or any Dem --???
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 11:34 PM by defendandprotect
It's DLC/GOP government --!!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
26. But of course, the Wall St. bailout was peachy keen
People LOVE giving money away to failed business leaders as long as there are no benefits for themselves.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. Idiots
Why doesn't the poll ask them if they'd enjoy a Bush Depression for the next three years. The American public has to be the dumbest public in western, industrialized nations.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. This is the smartest stuff I've heard them say in a long time---!!!
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
59. or how dothey feel about being robbed of 8 $TRILLION
or how do they feel about the media whores not asking any questions about that theft
and finally how do they feel about being really stupid
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
38. I've got no problem with loans.
Unfortunately, these multinational companies will try to use any loans to strengthen their overseas positions while laying off workers in the U.S. and busting the unions.

Give partial ownership to the workers and to taxpayers as a starting point. Otherwise, tell them to take a hike.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #38
52. They must FIRE the top management before we fork over OUR tax dollars.
:grr:
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #52
60. yea kind of like all the bank ceos will be fired and wont get 100s of billions in compensation
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. At least the government got veto power over executive compensation with the Citi bailout,
as well as control over dividend payments and partial ownership of the company.

While I have some sympathy for the thousands of financial industry workers who have been laid off since these bailout, I do not want to see the same thing happen in the auto industry. Now that we have management "over a barrel" it is time to force them to change the way they do business. Making the industry viable in the long run is the only way to make the auto workers jobs viable in the long run. Supplying management with "free money" will just prolong their mismanagement and do no good for auto workers in the long run.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. And it only cost them $350 billion dollars.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. Yeah, a real "bargain". n/t
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
44. another bullshit cnn poll....and some at du falls for it
oh well some people just do`t get it....
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #44
61. its sickening how stupid people are.How hard is it to connect the dots
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BNMarin Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
49. Give the money to poor people
And the middle class. Problem solved.
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
50. slippery slope stops here

I say take the 3 billion Michael Moore suggests their stock is worth and buy them out.
Then, as stockholders, we file for bankruptcy. The government will have the honor of taking care of this without banks getting their sticky fingers on it and will guarantee vehicles as they are redeveloped for the future needs of America. Perhaps the oil industry will finally be feeling it as their gas guzzler builders will be disassembled for a clean machine fleet builders.

Done. Everyone take a couple months off on unemployment while we reorganize and get back to ya.

Oh, and all you executives? You're fired. Hope you can maintain that luxury residence of yours without a golden parachute, jacked-up income and stock options, which are now moot.

Buy it up or let it go, but stop trying to band-aid an open jugular vein.




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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #50
62. and the trillions to the banks? wtf....too surreal
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #50
64. Your post is completely illogical. We've forwarded another $325 billion to Citi while debating this
with zero Congressional debate.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
51. People don't realize it's a "loan" and not a giveaway like to AIG. n/t
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kelly4hope Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
55. I heard one of the reps. for the auto industry drove to DC to plead their case.
And, if up thread is correct, and it's a loan and not a bailout, it sounds like one of the few smart things to do. What am I missing, when we bailout all of these other guys, while we also need the auto industry so much?
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