Auto rescue bill in peril, opposed by GOP senators

[onehandle]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON – Emergency aid for the nation's imperiled auto industry was thrown into jeopardy Wednesday, opposed by Republicans who were revolting against a hard-fought deal between Democrats and the Bush White House to speed $14 billion to ailing carmakers. Democrats detailed the compromise measure and laid the groundwork for quick votes on it, holding out hope the bailout could be enacted by week's end. But a growing number of GOP senators declared they would not go along.

The White House, though not formally endorsing an agreement with congressional Democrats, dispatched administration officials to Capitol Hill to make a case for the rescue package. During a contentious, closed-door luncheon with Senate Republicans, they got an earful of criticism from the rank-and-file, some of whom have already announced plans to block the measure. "They got a good dose," said opponent Tom Coburn, R-Okla., as he emerged from the session.

Even auto state Republicans who have pushed hard for a bailout said the measure needed work. Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., said he wanted to see changes. And Sen. George V. Voinovich, R-Ohio, said the measure didn't have the necessary Republican votes to pass Congress.

The Republicans' revolt came as the House began procedural votes on the package.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos

[LisaM]

1. They want bankruptcy so they can dismantle the UAW

They are just a bunch of self-serving creeps. I am livid. How much money have they funneled to Halliburton and its subsidiaries? How much has the war cost? Why do the bankers get the equivalent of Monopoloy money to spend as they choose?

[CatholicEdHead]

3. And they are reaching out to their base

Now that they are out of power they care about fiscal conservatism (whatever that really is). Expect many to go back and quote Saint Ronnie Reagan when defending this action. The base like it and it breaks the unions, win, win in their eyes.

[cosmicone]

6. Bankruptcy won't dismantle the UAW

It will just make the aspirations of UAW more realistic.

Paying laid-off people 85% of their pay for 4 years for doing nothing? COME ON!!

[Better Believe It]

10. Bankruptcy Will Destroy The UAW: People Won't Buy Cars From Bankrupt Automakers

Case closed.

[cosmicone]

19. Why?

People buy from Chapter 11 retailers, they fly Chapter 11 airlines, why not automakers?

[ohio2007]

28. bc "a voice on the radio" said so

an NPR story last week mentioned that.

[florida08]

30. absolutely right

they've hurt the teamsters by allowing Mexican trucks coming without much oversight directly from Mexico now they're going after the UAW. If they go under the autoworkers will lose all retirement and of course health care. Millions will be out of work but the companies could always reopen with nonunion labor. If they do I hope the whole country will picket them.

[Joe Steel]

13. Why does that bother you?

You should be upset about something important like the lack of health care benefits for American employees of foreign auto manufacturers.

[cosmicone]

18. I have seen UAW people who make $90K a year with benefits

for putting two screws in the assembly line. Most teachers, nurses and other hard working people don't make that.

[olegramps]

21. You are full of it.

Go haunt some GOP hate American Workers Board.

[cosmicone]

25. I don't hate American or any workers.

You tell me why the auto workers are more special than all other workers who don't get such cushy contracts regardless of whether their industry can support them?

I am for parity amongst workers from various industries. Do you think people who assemble and package semiconductors are less valuable than auto workers?

[amandabeech]

46. A word to the semiconductor workers: ORGANIZE.

n/t

[Omaha Steve]

31. NOPE

You are way behind on give backs. At least 3 or 4. You have also been listening to a press that knows that EFCA comes up early next year. A great time to bash unions. Remember CNN fired 110 workers ONLY because they belonged to a union. They were ordered by an administrative law judge to rehire them all with back pay for the full 5 years. CNN will appeal. The workers will still be without a job. See the connection?

Did you not read the DUer's post about the $14.40 he made before he got laid off? No job bank.

[clear eye]

37. Thanks for the straight dope. n/t

[amandabeech]

45. Please back that up.

I don't know anyone who gets that much.

[cliss]

34. I think it was more than that.

I'm fairly certain I've heard 95% of their pay, + plus full medical benefits. Not sure about pension if they got their pensions while unemployed:smoke:

[amandabeech]

44. That won't survive the re-opening of the contract as promised last week.

And the program is being phased out.

Please get up to date on this before posting.

It's fast moving and extremely important to lots and lots of Democratic voters.

Did you know that new hires get $14 and lousy health insurance?

[cosmicone]

51. New hires would get more if the old hires were not hogging n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. the bailout money will be used to finance their bankruptcies

The only reason Detroit has not already used Chapter 11 to discharge the union contracts because they can't afford Chapter 11 without running a serious risk of liquidation as they couldn't obtain debtor in possession financing to continue opperating while under court protection, with the bailout they can afford to spend a couple of very lean years in Chapter 11 without debtor in possession financing.

and to save halo experiment some keystrokes, I am a retard, I am a libertarian, I am a republican, I hate the American worker, I don't belong on democratic underground, and outsourcing superstar alan mulally is the second comming of jesus christ.

[olegramps]

22. Go peddle your bull crap somewhere else.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

26. prove that i'm wrong

or ask the moderators to ban me,

[cosmicone]

27. hahahahahahahaha

I get called all that and more for like-minded thinking!

[ohio2007]

29. 2nd paragraph said it all .

[damntexdem]

33. A bankruptcy will destroy the company involved (likely GM first).

If they really cause that to happen, it could lead to the dismantling of the GOP -- but unfortunately, also of much of the American economy.

[cosmicone]

2. Chapter 11 is the best solution

It will force all parties to sacrifice to keep the companies viable and get rid of some dead wood. It will also put court-imposed salary caps on the management's compensation and allow the automakers to emerge lean and mean.

The airlines have done it, the department stores have done it -- why not the automakers?

Why would someone give GM $15 billion in loans when one can buy the whole company today for $2.8 billion?

[DJ13]

4. Ch 11 is NOT the best solution

That will lead to a depression.

Seriously, do some research.

[cosmicone]

5. Another boogey man

besides, we are already in a depression. Printing more money reduces the value of everyone's earnings at the expense of the automobile companies.

[DJ13]

8. besides, we are already in a depression

So whats the loss of another 1 to 3 million jobs, 'eh?

Seriously, not even Shelby's beloved Mercedes plant will escape the damage caused by the auto suppliers going tits up from the bankruptcy of the Big3.

[gizmo1979]

11. How then do you explain that since

the bank bailout the dollar has gained against the euro Mr rocket scientist?

[cosmicone]

16. Simple.

The oil tumbled at the same time and since oil prices are tied to the dollar, as oil tumbles, the dollar strengthens to maintain parity with other currencies. If the oil had not dropped, the dollar would have too.

Think of it this way: Oil has dropped by 75% from the highs in August but the dollar has not gained 75%. It has gained less. That is due to devaluation of the dollar.

[olegramps]

24. It is because of the devaluation of the Euro due to the recession

The fact is they are dependent on our markets and when we hit a recession they are more negatively affected. Got it.

[gizmo1979]

52. No I really don't

If there is more money in circulation the dollar should be worth less.I've never heard the oil theory before,I'll have to look into it.Using that thesis oil is down what 75% so shouldn't the dollar be up 75%?

[gizmo1979]

12. Get ready to sacrifice

because everyone will be affected by a bankrupt big three.
Sacrifice has already been made by the UAW ,if not for banks not lending money the car companies would not need a bailout.
Let's see how welcome you think it is when your job is gone.

[Joe Steel]

14. Nonsense.

Most judges are Republican stooges. They'll put all the burden of the bankruptcy on the workers.

[newscott]

7. This whole thing smacks of a Lose/Lose for the Auto industry

Why do we need a car czar for 25 billion when we are just giving away trillions willy nilly with next to no oversight to NON UNIONIZED industries?

Hmmmmmm........

[jpak]

9. When all those southern boys figger out that they might not get parts for their Fords and Chevys

they'll put an end to that bullshit

[Joe Steel]

15. Judas Iscariot, Benedict Arnold and Richard Shelby.

This bunch knows where their money is coming from.

All these southern Republican Senators are from states with non-union foreign auto plants in them. They're selling-out American workers to their foreign masters.

Traitors.

[clear eye]

38. That's both interesting and depressing.

Welcome to the table.

It does explain why that group that always looks to their own bottom line is taking that position. .

[indypaul]

50. Did anyone ask Shelby what

Regions Financial Corp headquartered in Birmingham, AL
did with the $3.5 billion of TARP money they received?
How is he "protecting" our tax dollars there? And by the
way next door in Georgia SunTrust Banks Inc. received another
$3.5 billion. Why isn't the media asking these questions?

[ohio2007]

32. when will the southern auto manufacturers ask for some pie?

Southern auto workers worry what bailout failure will mean
snip
Executives at Honda Motor Co., Toyota and Nissan have stayed out of the bailout debate.

Merkle said the incentives to land foreign auto plants have "helped to build a competitive base to put our domestic automakers out of business" and the UAW must make concessions.

"Seventy dollars an hour for GM compared to $48 for Toyota, we've got to eliminate it," Merkle said of the automakers' total labor costs, suggesting that the Detroit Three should end health-care benefits for retirees who become eligible to collect pensions after 30 years on the job but are too young to qualify for Medicare.

But Steve Scruggs, a production worker at Hyundai's plant in Montgomery, said he holds no resentment over the extra benefits workers at GM, Ford and Chrysler receive.


snip
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20081209/BUSINESS/812090329/1007/NEWS01

Those guys only make $48 hr ?

[clear eye]

39. That figure includes the value of all benefits, and

is before taxes. They even count the cost of their future pensions to come up w/ that number.

[amandabeech]

47. The average current experienced UAW worker only makes a couple dollars more.

The rest of that halucinatory $70 is money that goes to retirees and their surviving spouses, of which there are many, divided by the number of current workers.

New workers get $14 and a lousy health package.

[clear eye]

41. Not necessarily.

The aftermarket manufacturers will expand. Without competition from the original parts the quality might decline, but it will be too late by the time that's evident.

[w4rma]

17. All the auto-industry has to do is hold out for 41 days longer and the Republicans won't be able to

block anything like this.

[ohio2007]

23. Why don't the banks ( that were bailed out ) pony up the dough?

this isn't rocket surgery folks

[clear eye]

35. Oh, s--t. n/t

[proud progressive]

36. call me crazy, call me wrong, but i agree w/ the gop on this one.

anybody here think the idiots that have run the big 3 into the ground, will NOW somehow do it right? they've had 50 years since that little crapmobile by toyota arrived. now WE make the second-rate cars and toyota is considered the world leader. we should be ashamed of ourselves. we were arrogant and lazy and now we pay the price.
yeah, the dems will probably prevail and give the 15b, but nothing will change. unfortunately, i think it's too late for us - we blew it.

[clear eye]

40. Let's hope you're wrong about the "nothing will change".

They won't be able to afford to revamp their lines right now, but if they're kept alive, maybe in the Obama administration they will receive additional support tied tightly to producing energy-efficient, smaller, quality vehicles. They may comply by forming joint ventures w/ European makers like VW and Fiat, and build cars using the Euro platforms. I can't see how they won't be forced to wake up, if they survive. Even if the UAW collapses, either it, or something like it will rise again once the companies are stable. Especially if health insurance costs are picked up by the government. (An important reason for a single-payer health structure.)

The U.S. is on the verge of re-industrializing using green methods and materials, and producing green products, or it will die trying. An amazing consensus has developed across political lines and economic classes. It is a tidal wave that even the dinosaurs running the big 3 won't be able to resist.

Now if only people would bridge the disconnect and get reacquainted with driving vehicles lower to the ground. I truly believe that is the last line of resistance. As long as SUV's and other tall vehicles sell as cheaply as cars, people seem to gravitate to them irresistibly, despite their lower fuel economy. Folks just love seeing over everyone else--even people who go out of their way to recycle. Punitive taxation and general poverty might finally do what reason hasn't been able to.

[amandabeech]

48. You are grossly underinformed here. And extremely lazy.

Please take a few minutes to read the UAW page and the automaker pages and their submitted plans.

Check out their hybrids. Check out the Volt. Check out their efforts to bring in the small European cars.

Check out the history of Mulally at Ford and Nardelli at Chrysler.

Oh, and Google what Consumer Reports NOW says about American car makers, not what happened 50 years ago.

Uninformed people like you are no better than the low-information voters castigated at DU during the election.

I just give up.

[llmart]

42. I'm going to say something that may not be popular on here.....

but my anecdotal evidence tells me that many, many of those autoworkers voted Republican. My husband worked at Chrysler and the emails I saw from his coworkers were very anti-Democratic in the past 16 years. These guys (and it was mostly the guys) didn't know how good they had it during the Clinton years. I remember saying back then that one day they would look back and see how stupid they were.

[gravity]

43. The Senate Republicans can't do a successful filibuster

The Democrats working with the White House gave every single reasonable concession that someone opposing the bailout would ask for.

The big 3 are getting money, and if they don't restructure to a sustainable business, they return it back to the taxpayers and declare bankruptcy. What else do you want?

These guys are just grandstanding for pure political reasons. If they are successful, they will just piss off the entire country as the economy goes into a deeper recession, screwing themselves in the process.

[Psephos]

55. This is still the old Senate, where a successful filibuster remains quite possible. n/t

[JohnAB]

49. Auto rescue bill

Cerberus is under fire in Congress
Lawmakers: Why doesn't equity firm aid Chrysler?
BY TIM HIGGINS • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • December 10, 2008


Members of Congress are turning up the heat on Chrysler's majority owner, Cerberus Capital Management, asking why the global private equity firm doesn't open its books and provide some support to the automaker itself.

this is like painting your face with war face paint and showing up at a wedding!

your thoughts?

[The Stranger]

53. I think Reid is getting ready to fuck his own again -- he's going to fuck the UAW.

Watch. Here it comes. Good old Democratic leadership.

[Psephos]

54. My how times change. Why, just look at this post from July....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3550655#3550971

and this one, too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3550655#3550979

Apparently Reid isn't the only one who wants to see the UAW fucked over. But at least you can take heart that a lot of other people here on DU have been talking out both sides of their mouths, too.

[The Stranger]

56. Well, before you get too proud of yourself . . .

. . . despite the failed management of the Big Three, the GOP poured $800 billion into the pockets of their supporters on Wall Street, and Reid didn't even flinch. Now, the automakers ask for 2% of that sum, and the GOP refuses simply to try to fuck the UAW and the Democrats. It is political.

So, smug one, a lot has changed since July. Maybe you haven't been paying attention.