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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 08:30 PM
Original message
Uruguay left picks ex-guerrilla to run for president
Source: Reuters

MONTEVIDEO, Dec 14 (Reuters) - Uruguay's ruling left-wing coalition on Sunday chose a former guerrilla leader as its official candidate for next year's presidential election, but also decided he will face a primary.

Jose Mujica, 74, who led the Tupamaros National Liberation Movement behind bombings and kidnappings in the late 1960s and early 1970s and was jailed during Uruguay's 1973-1985 military dictatorship, has softened his image in recent years and is now a senator.

His candidacy was backed by over 70 percent of around 2,400 delegates of the ruling Frente Amplio (Broad Front) coalition at a meeting on Sunday.

Center-left President Tabare Vazquez, who became Uruguay's first socialist leader in 2005 in another shift to the left in Latin American politics, cannot run for a consecutive term.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14462516.htm
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good grief! He was a Tupamaro. The U.S. had a man there TORTURING Tupamaros.
Edited on Sun Dec-14-08 08:52 PM by Judi Lynn
Just wade into your internetS and start a search to find more on this cretin. He was formerly a police chief in Indiana, joined the State Department under Eisenhower, and when he was killed, Richard Nixon gave him a hero's funeral, sending his press secretary, and his son-in-law, David Eisenhower, and others to attend.

Frank Sinatra and Jerry Lewis threw a benefit for the widow and the scuzball's NINE children.

Here's just one article:
Uruguay 1964-1970
Torture - as American as apple pie
excerpted from the book
Killing Hope
by William Blum

"The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect.''

The words of an instructor in the art of torture. The words of Dan Mitrione, the head of the Office of Public Safety (OPS) mission in Montevideo.
Officially, OPS was a division of the Agency for International Development, but the director of OPS in Washington, Byron Engle, was an old CIA hand. His organization maintained a close working relationship with the CIA, and Agency officers often operated abroad under OPS cover, although Mitrione was not one of them.
OPS had been operating formally in Uruguay since 1965, supplying the police with the equipment, the arms, and the training it was created to do. Four years later, when Mitrione arrived, the Uruguayans had a special need for OPS services. The country was in the midst of a long-running economic decline, its once-heralded prosperity and democracy sinking fast toward the level of its South American neighbors. Labor strikes, student demonstrations, and militant street violence had become normal events during the past year, and, most worrisome to the Uruguayan authorities, there were the revolutionaries who called themselves Tupamaros. Perhaps the cleverest, most resourceful and most sophisticated urban guerrillas the world has ever seen, the Tupamaros had a deft touch for capturing the public's imagination with outrageous actions, and winning sympathizers with their Robin Hood philosophy. Their members and secret partisans held key positions in the government, banks, universities, and the professions, as well as in the military and police.
"Unlike other Latin-American guerrilla groups," the New York Times stated in 1970 "the Tupamaros normally avoid bloodshed when possible. They try instead to create embarrassment for the Government and general disorder." A favorite tactic was to raid the files of a private corporation to expose corruption and deceit in high places, or kidnap a prominent figure and try him before a "People's Court". It was heady stuff to choose a public villain whose acts went uncensored by the legislature, the courts and the press, subject him to an informed and uncompromising interrogation, and then publicize the results of the intriguing dialogue. Once they ransacked an exclusive high-class nightclub and scrawled the walls perhaps their most memorable slogan: "O Bailan Todos O No Baila Nadie -- Either everyone dances or no one dances."
Dan Mitrione did not introduce the practice of torturing political prisoners to Uruguay It had been perpetrated by the police at times from at least the early 1960s. However, in surprising interview given to a leading Brazilian newspaper in 1970, the former Uruguayan Chief of Police Intelligence, Alejandro Otero, declared that US advisers, and in particular Mitrione, had instituted torture as a more routine measure; to the means of inflicting pain they had added scientific refinement; and to that a psychology to create despair, such as playing a tape in the next room of women and children screaming and telling the prisoners that it was his family being tortured.
"The violent methods which were beginning to be employed," said Otero, "caused an escalation in Tupamaro activity. Before then their attitude showed that they would use violence only as a last resort."
More:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Uruguay_KH.html

?svr=www

Click to see Dan Mitrione's photo.


THE NEW YORK TIMES, MONDAY, JUNE 11, 1979 A19

Torture’s Teachers
By A.J. Langguth

LOS ANGELES – A few months ago, I received some clippings of interviews with a former Federal Intelligence agency official. That operative, Jesse Leaf, had been involved with the agency’s activities in Iran, and well into the stories Mr. Leaf made some damning accusations.

He said that the C.I.A. sent an operative to teach interrogation methods to SAVAK, the Shah’s secret police, that the training included instructions in torture, and the techniques were copied from the Nazis.

Reading through the clippings, I could think of several reasons why the accusations had not been featured prominently. Mr. Leaf could not, or did not, supply the name of the instructor, his victims would be hard to locate; and the testimony from opponents of the Shah would be suspect.

But there is still another reason that I take to be the truest one: We – and I mean we as Americans – don’t believe it. We can read the accusations, even examine the evidence and find it irrefutable. But, in our hearts, we cannot believe that Americans have gone abroad to spread the use of torture.

We can believe that public officials with reputations for brilliance can be arrogant, blind or stupid. Anything but evil. And when the cumulative proof becomes overwhelming that our representatives in the C.I.A. or the Agency for International Development police program did in fact teach torture, we excuse ourselves by vilifying the individual men.

This has been on my mind since I returned from Cuba recently. In Havana, I had tried to hunt down a former double agent, a Cuban named Manuel, who was said to have information about United States involvement with torture in Latin America. Manuel had revealed his true sympathies by leaving his job with the C.I.A. in Montevideo and returning to his homeland. But from his editor I learned that Manuel, whose full name turned out to be Manuel Hevia Conculluela, would be out of the country the entire time I was in Cuba. I could, however, get a copy of the book he had published six months earlier, "Pasaporte 11333, Eight Years With the C.I.A."

Mr. Hevia had served the C.I.A. in Uruguay’s police program. In 1970, his duties brought him in contact with Dan Mitrione, the United States policy adviser who was kidnapped by the Tupamaro revolutionaries later that year and shot to death when the Uruguayan Government refused to save him by yielding up politician prisoners.

Mr. Mitrione has become notorious throughout Latin America. But few men ever had the chance to sit with him and discuss his rationale for torture. Mr. Hevia had once.

~snip~
A few months later, Mr. Mitrione paid with his life for those excesses. Five years late, thanks to the effort of such men as former Senator James Abourezk, the police advisory program was finally abolished.

More:
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/langguthleaf.html
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. do you get this outraged at those who did the torturing under Castro?
just curious
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why don't you provide some links to information on that?
You'd be giving everyone who reads your post an education he/she would truly appreciate.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. you're denying that the Castro regime never tortured anyone?
wow-I never knew how much of an apologist you truly were

I bet you're a big fan of Mao and his work during the Cultural Revolution as well


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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Did you live in Uruguay?
If things get too bad here, I'm considering it as my new home.
Never been there, but it sounds nice for retirement.
I'd like to hear pros & cons from someone whose lived there.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. By the way, my parents were expected to pay for Mitrione's torture implements he received from
Edited on Sun Dec-14-08 11:22 PM by Judi Lynn
the U.S. via diplomatic courier, with their own tax dollars. He tortured people in both Brazil, for that fascist government of the day, then in Uruguay. They didn't believe in torture, yet they were required to buy torture tools for Mitrione.

What moves you to feel the impulse to try to weave in the people of Cuba's revolution? How is it connected to U.S. torture of people in other countries?

Torture was a problem to the people of Cuba who rebelled against the monster U.S. puppet, Fulgencio Batista, since he killed their friends, relatives, neighbors, etc.

Why don't you start your own Cuba thread? It would only enhance the discussion.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org.nyud.net:8090/cuban-rebels/protest.gif

This is a march in Santiago de Cuba, by mothers whose sons were tortured,
murdered, some of them found in fields, some hanging in trees. When they
reached the American ambassador who was visiting the town, to beg him to
put in a word with Batista for them, the police turned the fire hoses on them.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Torturing under Castro? You have any evidence?
Not statements that it was done (with the exception of some one who actually had it done to them, and then such storied verified by someone else) but actual statements. I must exclude from that interrogation techniques, such as yelling at prisoners and isolating them. The former is used by the Police in the US, the later by the Military, and has long been viewed as NON-torture by the court system (Through to be effective isolation must be brief, generally less then a day, followed by contact with an interrogator who builds a repour with the person being interrogated do to that first person's need, that we all have, to talk. The Isolation sets the person up to NEED to talk, to anyone about anything, the job of the interrogator is to direct that talk to the subject of interest). Isolation is illegal in the US if excessive and a day is considered excessive, but notice I point out the difference between being yelled out and Isolation. The former is permitted and that is why you have the right to remain silent AND the right to talk to an attorney. Both prevents isolation from being used by the police, but is used by the Military and the CIA to "break" people they are interrogating by first maximizing they need to find someone to talk to, and then directing that need in the direction the interrogated wants it to go.

Now here is one report, where torture is claimed, but it seems to be more inhuman punishment then torture. He said he was beaten, but not how which again impose punishment of the Auburn School of prison (Prisons are to be harsh and the Prisoners treated harshly, a policy the US endures for its won prisoners, but physical punishment, isolation and lack of food are all illegal under US Laws, all three are claimed by this writer as having occurred to him):
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=625

Some more comments about Castro's torture, through it is strange that it connects Castro Execution of "Counter-Revolutionaries" with torture is quoting Castro as saying "annihilates the enemy," which is a weird wording, for it implies the torture as punishment, like the Death Sentence, not to get useful information:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DEEDA153FF93BA35755C0A960948260

Here is Castro denying that he sent anyone to torture anyone overseas (More as a denial to McCain's claim he was tortured by a Cuban while held by the North Vietnamese). Note Castro also denies torture any of the prisoners he took during the Bay of Pigs (Through NOT other prisoners,i.e. domestic political prisoners).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23114586/

Castro has locked people up, and the conditions of his Prisons are NOT up to US Standards, but again neither is the subject we are discussing, which is torture. The number of Political prisoners Cubs presenlty holds is under 300 (Through that was NOT the case in the 1960s when the allege torture took place).

Now we must be careful, torture is more often used as punishment then to get information (In fact torture is only effective in two areas, first to get confessions, the confessions do NOT have to be true, the torture is just to get people to "confess" then the government can use that confession as it sees fit. The second area where torture is considered effective is intimidation, if someone you know is tortured and that is leaked to other people, other people to avoid such treatment tend to make sure they do NOT come close to doing what the person who was tortured did. Notice survivor of the Torture victim is NOT important, but knowledge of the Torture MUST get out to the people to make sure they learn to fear it. Thus most people who torture do so quietly and do NOT officially reveal it is being done, but the victims are left out (or thrown out if died) so people can talk about their treatment. Notice again information is NOT important, the torture is applied for intimidation purposes only.

BBC Claim that Castro holds 600 Political Prisoners (1998 Report)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/49948.stm

1988 piece from the New York Time where Castro said he had 429 political Prisoners, but released all by 42 in 1988:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE6DF1E39F936A35755C0A96E948260

Report that Castro released 19 Political prisoners in 1998:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-64581380.html

Feb 2008 report saying Cuba has reduce SOME political repression, but still had 230 political Prisoners:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS22742.pdf

Thus, while reports of Torture of Prisoner held before the late 1980s seems to have some support, nothing since the fall of the Soviet Union. Castro still holds Political Prisoners, but no evidence of torture since the late 1980s. Thus the issue is torture TODAY, and that is the information I am looking for. I have found NONE, except re-cycled old reports from the pre-1990 period. Castro has had other concerns since the fall of the Soviet Union and torture no longer seems to provide any value today. It is good to record it, but lets be honest, Castro will lose more today if he torture and evidence of that torture came out today, then he would have lost in the 1960s. We are in the post-Cold War age and Castro can NOT afford to torture anybody anymore. Thus international pressure is to great on him to permit it to happen TODAY.

What the writer is concerned about is torture TODAY, and how to bring the people who torture more in line with Castro (and his fear that torture will cause him more harm then good)?
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. the Communist apologists on this board are truly a work of art
amazing

I'm not going to stoop to calling you all what I would really love to call you because this would be pulled but just know how contemptuous you all are

you don't deserve to live in a free society if you're so supportive of totalitarian regimes such as Castro


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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Cuba has an incarceration rate of 297/100,000
While the rate in the USA is 715/100,000, the absolute highest in the world.

In other words, the land of the free has more than twice as big a percentage of its population in prison than does Cuba.

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb//y/world.htm
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Ssshh! We don't want dwickham's head to explode. n/t
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. how many political prisoners does the US have
as opposed to Cuba?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. if your birth country is so great
why are you here?
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Acadia Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I think they are not apologists. ALL TORTURE IS HORRIBLE NO
MATTER WHO DOES IT. I HAVE NEVER KNOWN A LEFTEE WHO SUPPORTED TORTURE, BUT HAVE KNOWN LOTS OF RIGHT WINGERS WHO THINK ITS JUST FINE.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. you need to check your history books
the Chinese, Soviets, Cubans, Poles, Romanians, Hungarians, East Germans, North Korea, Cambodian-ever heard of Pol Pot?-Vietnamese, Laoatian regimes have all tortured and killed their citizens

take a look at what happened in Tibet recently-the COMMUNIST Chinese government killed its own citizens

Tiananmen Square ring a bell?


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. The word you want is "contemptible".
And how retro of you to call us Communist sympathizers.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thanks for the clarification! I couldn't begin to grasp what he was struggling to say.
I do feel very contemptuous toward the U.S. right-wing. The damage it has caused is incalculable, and for what end: their diseased view they actually have the right to try to control people's lives in other countries. Idiots, fools!

They have a life assignment learning to control themselves, and growing up, the way everyone else must.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
anaxarchos Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Wow... that just took me back 40 years.

How does that work for you in the present day, Senator McCarthy?

"Columnists"?

"Why no... I work in Advertising, but I do a bit of writing."

"Communist sympathizers."

That shit don't work without a stinkin' blacklist. Got one?

Are you keepin' a list, Santa?

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Was our government paying the salaries of those who did the torturing under Castro? nt
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Huh?
Do you have the same outrage for the U.S. as you do for Castro?
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Jose Mujica, Ministro de Agricultura, explica su filosofia de la libertad
“Hacer lo que se te canta sin joder a otro”
EL MUNDO
Por M. G.
Desde Montevideo

... –¿Cuál percibe usted que es el reclamo exacto de los uruguayos que los votaron?
–Estar un poco mejor. El 70 por ciento espera cambios, pero no espectaculares ni inmediatos ... Hacemos la reforma porque ya no podemos hacer otra cosa. Pero no lo digo con tristeza. O nos quedamos en 1960 o asumimos el desafío de plantear la historia de otro tiempo. Creíamos que cambiando las relaciones de propiedad cambiaría el mundo. Cambiaron, pero el mundo no cambió. Hablo mucho de esto. Es un problema de civilización ... Hace falta construir sociedades más justas y felices, pero no las vamos a conseguir si no tenemos una relación muy audaz y muy activa con el pasado ... Voy a confesar que me siento más cerca de Marx que de Lenin ... El capitalismo es un sistema cada vez más atroz, pero no tengo respuestas mágicas para su contrario. Cuando uno está en un túnel y no ve la luz, mira para atrás en busca de la luz que conoció ...

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elmundo/4-47967-2005-03-02.html

-What exactly do you think Uruguayans who voted want?
-To be a bit better. Seventy percent hope for change but nothing spectacular or immediate ... We make reforms because we can't do anything else. But I don't say that sadly. Either we were going to stay in 1960 or we were going to assume the challenge of another time. We thought changing property relations would change the world, but the world did not change. I talk about this a lot. It is a civilization problem ... It is necessary to construct happier and more just societies, but we can't obtain them without a bold and active relationship with our past ... I confess that I feel closer to Marx than to Lenin ... Capitalism is an ever more atrocious system but I have no magic responses in opposition. When you're in a tunnel and cannot see any light, you look back towards the light you last saw ...
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. Looking for info. on Uruguay, learned that their own current President is also a former guerilla!
This is really interesting.

I was trying to run down the Latinobarometro report which has shown a couple of different years that Uruguayans are first in South America in supporting, liking their own govrnment, their democracy, over 60%, with Venezuelans second, around 54%, and the rest of South America signifcantly lower.

People have posted this information spanning several years here at D.U., referring to at least a couple of individual polls taken in the region. Didn't find the material yet, as I don't have very long to look tonight, but I did find the info. that Tabare Vasquez was very much the leftist for a long time:
Leftist wins Uruguay election
01/11/2004 10:15 - (SA)

Montevideo - Socialist Tabare Vazquez scored a historic victory late on Sunday in Uruguay's presidential voting as exit polls showed his coalition, which includes former guerrilla fighters, with more than 50 percent of votes cast.

Supporters of Vazquez's leftist coalition, which includes former Tupamaro rebels, were already celebrating in the streets as Vazquez declared victory.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1613755,00.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Leftist leader takes office in Uruguay
Last Updated: Tuesday, March 1, 2005 | 6:59 PM ET
CBC News

Thousands of people took to the streets of Uruguay at midnight, setting off fireworks in an early celebration of Tuesday's inauguration of the country's first ever leftist government.
Tabare Vasquez and his Broad Front coalition, which includes former Communist guerrillas, beat out Uruguay's established, more conservative parties to win the Oct. 31 election.

As one of his first acts in office, the 65-year-old Vasquez restored full diplomatic relations with Cuba's communist government. Ties had been limited since a dispute in 2002.
A cancer specialist, the new president was an urban guerrilla during the time of Uruguay's military dictatorship.

~snip~
With roughly 3.5 million people, Uruguay is the sixth South American country with a government that identifies itself as socialist. Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela and Ecuador have all elected leftist governments within the past few years.

Conservative governments, interrupted by brief periods of military rule, have led Uruguay for the last 170 years.

More:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/03/01/uruguay-vasquez050301.html
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Sometimes violent revolution is honorable, as with our own.
The violent American Revolution was honorable and its fighters stuck to their remarkable new principles of democracy and the rule of law (not men), afterwards.

The violent French Revolution was honorable, at first, but succumbed to violent mob rule.

Russia's violent revolution was honorable, at first--but within a decade descended into new Tsarism with Stalin.

I don't know much about China's (--just that the impoverished peasants had much reason to revolt).

Cuba's violent revolution was honorable, and immediately became a peaceful revolution, despite tremendous on-going threat from the U.S., to this day.

Vietnam's was honorable--a 5,000 year struggle for independence from China, France and finally the U.S. Having pushed the final imperial conquerer out, at tremendous cost, in the 1960s/early 1970s, the revolution became peaceful, but has succumbed to some of the evils of global corporate predation.

Nicaragua's revolution was honorable, and relatively bloodless, until the U.S. got involved, to overturn it; the leader of that revolution has returned to power as the elected president of Nicaragua today.

Many of the armed revolts in Latin America--including Uruguay's and El Salvador's, and others--were honorable efforts to overcome brutal exploitation and heinous repression (often sponsored by the U.S. on behalf of its corporate predators).

Honorable = just cause.

I am a pacifist. I don't believe that any cause justifies killing a human being. But then, I have never experienced my brothers, sisters and friends being 'disappeared,' have never been tortured, have never suffered to the extent that many have suffered, who have chosen violent revolution, and was born at the end of WW II--a beneficiary of those who suffered and died in violent conflict with the Nazis and Japanese imperialists. I understand the nobility of armed conflict in a just cause. I should also say that I am very opposed to the world being an "armed camp," as it is today, with big and small weapons everywhere--so that every conflict (personal, tribal, national) gets militarized--and I hope that we one day see the peaceful world that JFK envisioned in his speech to the UN, in one of his last speeches on earth. My husband, who was a USAF bomber pilot (carrying nukes), pulled off the freeway that day, and broke down in tears, hearing that speech live on the radio. It expressed the deep desire of all just-cause warriors (and others) for a world without war--and a world in which the rightful aspirations of the world's people, to a decent life--food on the table, roof over the head, education, creative work, a bit of pleasure in life, a beautiful and plentiful natural environment, community well-being, a sense of empowerment, and the other things most people want--can be realized through peaceful means.

Until we have such a world, I cannot judge people who violently revolt in a just cause. Many claim a just cause--in fact, virtually all leaders who kill others in great numbers claim to be justified--but I think there is a commonly understood standard, based on facts and reason, by which we can say that Hitler's violence was NOT in a 'just cause'--the one extreme--while that of Fidel Castro or Ho Chi Minh, WAS--the other end (peoples' revolutions, due to brutal oppression).

It also has been made very difficult for U.S. citizens to judge some situations, because of the propaganda of our own government and corpo/fascist media. Cuba is an excellent example. The U.S. was sponsoring torture and mass murder throughout Latin America, and viciously suppressed all democratic efforts to achieve social justice, before, during and after the Cuban revolution. The Castro government, in its earliest years, existed within this context--which did not really begin to improve until recently, with the successful election of leftist governments all over South America (and beginning in Central America). The actions of the Castro government, in protecting the Cuban revolution, in my opinion, are remarkably free of bloodshed, torture, repression and violent purges, such as occurred, for instance, in Stalinist Russia. With the exception of Cuba granting permission to Russia (under Krushchev) to place nuclear missiles in Cuba, Cuba has also not been given to provocation. They have followed their own path, which has been entirely peaceful over most of its history, including the last 30 years or so.

The same is not true of the U.S., which is hardly in a position to judge Cuba, after slaughtering a million people in Iraq to steal their oil, and which is STILL trying to violently overthrow democracy in South America, most recently this September in Bolivia.

Those who accuse Cuba of holding political prisoners, or of torture (when? where?), seem blind to what is going on, on the other end of the island of Cuba, at Guantanamo Bay--a U.S.-created medieval torture dungeon!

How can we trust the accusations of people who are blind to that horror, and never mention it? How can we trust anything they say, or our government says, or our media says, about Cuba, while that horror continues to exist?

The violence of the Cuban revolution was for a just cause--overturning the heinous Bautista regime--and Cuba's government soon after abandoned violence and began to develop medical and literacy programs as their chief method of diplomacy. When Barack Obama was elected, many Latin American governments included, in their congratulatory message to Obama, an appeal to end the embargo on Cuba. It's long past time that we did that, as well as ceasing U.S. efforts to inflict a corpo/fascist agenda throughout the region. There are many honorable warriors in Latin America--Tabare Vasquez is one of them--who, to the people of their countries, are like George Washington or Franklin Roosevelt to us. Some took up arms, at one time. Some used other means. Their cause was justice and fairness. And obviously the people of South America consider them heroes. Chavez in Venezuela. Ortega in Nicaragua. Morales in Bolivia. Castro in Cuba. Vasquez in Uruguay. The FMLN in El Salvador (whose presidential candidate is likely to win early next year). Bishop Lugo in Paraguay. Michele Batchelet in Chile (who was tortured by the fascist regime). And many more. It is virtually impossible (except for the young) to be a leftist and a democrat with a small d in Latin America today and NOT to have been involved in the revolutionary struggle in some way. It's time that THIS revolutionary country--our own--return to its democratic roots, and join forces with those others who seek justice and fairness in our own hemisphere.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Insistance our culture has been the only one justified in violence against oppressors, the ONLY
acceptable revolution speaks of an unbelievable myopia to the point of complete blindness!

Among the stories passed down to us from the first are NO stories of numbers of people disappeared, as you have mentioned, no stories of recurrent torture of citizens, sometimes to death, NOTHING whatsoever approaching that unspeakable degree of brutality from the oppressing government.

That flag flying over Guantanamo needs to return to the U.S., permanently, and those prisoners taken should all be returned to their own countries to attempt to live out the rest of their lives. Whatever elements in our own country who have adhered to the principles organized and demonstrated in "Operation Northwoods" should be removed from their jobs, their positions of influence immediately, and we should swear off creating events to use in order to start wars against countries as was intended when the Joint Chiefs signed "Operation Northwoods" in the 1960's. We can see that although John Kennedy denied them the authorization to implement it, that principle has been in force since then, as well as before then, if one still can "remember the Maine!"

For anyone who hasn't heard of it already:
Book: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba
By David Ruppe
N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001

In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

"These were Joint Chiefs of Staff documents. The reason these were held secret for so long is the Joint Chiefs never wanted to give these up because they were so embarrassing," Bamford told ABCNEWS.com.

"The whole point of a democracy is to have leaders responding to the public will, and here this is the complete reverse, the military trying to trick the American people into a war that they want but that nobody else wants."
More:
http://abcnews.go.com/us/Story?id=92662&page=1

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Yes, I agree--the double-standard is mind-boggling. The U.S. government accuses
Cuba of repression, or accuses Chavez of I don't know what (really, there is NO rational basis for U.S. hostility to Chavez), or accuses whoever has control of a lot of oil in South America (Chavez, Correa in Ecuador, Morales) of being a "dictator" or (when no evidence of that can be cited) a "would-be dictator," or accuses the FARC in Colombia of being "terrorists", when the Colombian military and its rightwing death squads (U.S./Bush allies) are the real terrorists, according to stats like those of Amnesty International: 92% of the murders of union leaders in Colombia are being committed by Colombian security forces and rightwing death squads, and only 2% by the FARC (which the AI report says were likely collaborators with the Colombian military). So, WHO are the "terrorists"? The rulers of Colombia who have retained power by slaughtering union leaders, peasants, human rights workers and political leftists, in the tens of thousands--or the FARC, the armed leftist guerrilla fighting force that opposes them? WHO are the terrorists--Bush & co., who have slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people to get their oil, and have tortured thousands for God only knows what purpose--or Hugo Chavez or Evo Morales, who have killed no one, tortured no one, oppressed no one, and who are the honestly, democratically elected leaders of their countries?

Mind-boggling is the word. "Alice in Wonderland" is another way to describe it: upside down, inside out and backwards.

Posters who defend the Colombian government, and spew hateful nonsense about Chavez, and who are always anti-Castro, don't seem able to see the broad picture--the relative merits of the Castro government vs. the horrors of the Bautista regime, or the current state of Venezuelan democracy (good to excellent, in my estimation) vs. ...what? They never say what. Versus the both brutal and stupid rule of previous rightwing governments? Is that what they want? They focus down on some narrow point--such as Chavez proposing another vote on his term limit--and lose all (or never had any) perspective. And they simply ignore the facts when you state them (how many democratic governments DON'T have term limits; our own Founders' opposition to term limits; our own FDR running for and winning four terms in office, etc.) They do the same with regard to the FARC, Cuba and other topics--they use the fact that the FARC guerrillas have kidnapped people and probably killed some people, in narrowest possible focus, to condemn them, but never respond to the evidence that the Colombian government is far worse than the FARC. Facts just glide off of their minds. That is Bushitism. Facts don't matter. And one service Bush has done to us all is to take this "Alice in Wonderland" attitude of U.S. policy--this upside down, inside out, backwards attitude, so prevalent in U.S./Latin American relations over the decades--to its extreme--its ugly naked extreme--so that more and more people here are beginning to see through it all. Maybe that's why the global corporate predators who rule over us let Obama win (and I'm fairly sure it was a decision of the corporados)-- because the Bushwhacks had gone too far. They were exposing the hidden side of corporate power: its brutality. And its 100%, baldfaced lies and propaganda.

If someone tries to point out the RELATIVITY of a given situation--as I have often done--then I get accused, for instance, of approving of FARC kidnappings or killings. I don't approve of violence of any kind, but 92% vs 2% tells you something about the Colombian security forces and about the FARC. It cannot be ignored in a reasonable discussion. And ignoring it is Bushitism. That's its definition. Facts down matter. Only having the biggest guns and the most money, and all the power to oppress others, matters.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
27. Uruguay ex-guerrilla leader nominated presidential candidate
Monday, December 15, 2008

Uruguay ex-guerrilla leader nominated presidential candidate

Uruguay’s former guerrilla leader and currently Senator Jose Mujica was chosen by an overwhelming majority as the ruling coalition’s presidential candidate for next year’s elections, but he will first have to face another challenge from other hopefuls in June.

Although in the Broad Front coalition congress held over the weekend Mr. Mujica with the support of his group MPPS and Communists allies managed 71% of the congress delegates’ votes, opinion polls suggest that among the file and rank of the coalition his standing is almost equalled by that of Senator Danilo Astori (former Economy minister) in the range of 40%.

The congress delegates have proved to be more radical than the rest of the coalition since the program draft wants an end to the commercial opening of President Tabare Vazquez administration (and ex minister Astori) policies and prefers a closer alignment with the governments of Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Argentina.

The program also advocates a greater role in the economy for the government in detriment of the private sector.

More:
http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=15515&formato=HTML

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