BREAKING: IRAQI TV claims shoe-throwing reporter being tortured at US-run prison.

[The Sushi Bandit]

Source: Current TV

<snip> The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

Read more: http://current.com/items/89625564/breaking_iraqi_tv_claims_shoe_throwing_reporter_being_tortured_at_us_run_prison.htm

[SammyWinstonJack]

1. So much for "spreading Democracy"! Heckuvajob george!

x(

[blueclown]

2. I'm hesitant to take this source at face value.

But if this is true, this is a bombshell. And it will have dire effects on the situation in Iraq.

[The Sushi Bandit]

10. What source are you hesitant about??

Current TV, Roads to Iraq, or Sushi Bandit?

[blueclown]

12. al-Sharqiya

I'd like to see this confirmed.

[bitchkitty]

102. Why are you skeptical about al-Sharqiya?

Because they are an Iraqi station?

[PatrynXX]

11. Basically gives our enemies more ammo.

If that had happened in the USA usually we don't torture reporters. (Twin Cities is the exception. there during the RNC convention we do. )

[iconicgnom]

162. It isn't what US citizens have in the US, it's what the US inflicts on the rest of the world.

Gitmo isn't in the US for a reason.
It's an old idea that US-backed groups can kidnap and "render" (disappear) non-US citizens with impunity, so long as they don't do this to US citizens, esp. on US soil (well, so long as you aren't some foreign sounding/looking dude like Jose Padilla). That kind of thing kinda puts a crimp in the notion of "freedom", but what the hey, people have "free speech" to "protest about it" in the US, so all is OK.

Oh, and bombing f&*k out of foreign cities - why, watching it on FOX and MSNBC is more exciting than fireworks on the 4th of July! It's even more fun when the people in those cities didn't even know that they were "enemies of the US", that they "threatened the US", until the demonization began a few months before the saturation bombing. They just thought they had, like, e.g. oil, and self-determination. Silly them.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. This is why I didn't think the incident was funny at all.

I KNEW this would happen and I KNEW that all the focus from the MSM and all the joking about it would make this poor man's fate worse. :(

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. What can we do to make sure they don't kill him?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Shit, I don't know. Maybe Obama could make a statement?

He could say that while he doesn't condone al-Zeidi's actions, that lenience would be in order, considering the justifiable anger of many Iraqis. I just really, really hope that his plight stays in the fickle media's sights, so that he isn't "disappeared". :scared:

[robinlynne]

154. yep.

[w4rma]

170. On the contrary. The attention has probably kept him alive. (nt)

[Junkdrawer]

4. This will not end well....n/t

[rcsl1998]

5. THE WORLD IS WATCHING... nt

[Amerigo Vespucci]

6. I'll bet that Bush STILL...

...watches cartoons and masturbates while playing with Saddam's pistol.

The story is spreading like wildfire and it has not yet been certified as correct. It might be as accurate as the race of giant alligators living in the sewers of New York.

One thing's for sure, though...if this guy was hauled off and beaten, Bush is probably going to replicate his best Karla Faye Tucker "PLEASE DON'T KILL ME" cackle.

Soulless motherf**ker.

[1776Forever]

17. Thanks to you Amerigo - You said exactly what is in my heart! Please don't let this be so.

It is more then awful. It is inhumane. There is no need to torture this man. Hasn't he been tortured enough? Haven't all the Iraqi's been tortured enough?

This is not in my name - I denounce this torture as I know you do also.

:cry:

[Divine Discontent]

79. just had to watch B*sh's reaction to the question about the shoe thrower minutes afterward

and his anger filled reaction to know that this probably is true and he's being tortured.

These designs on dozens of different shirts, button, stickers, mugs & more! http://www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable/1434671

[truth2power]

40. Yes, Amerigo. I do firmly believe that GWB is a psychopath...

If this report is true, I am not surprised. Bush would have made sure that this journalist would suffer for his act.

The added benefit for Bush is that he enjoys inflicting pain. He is a bad seed. Someday, if there is any justice in the world, the truth will come out.

[liam_laddie]

94. If there is any justice...

Bush will be tortured somewhere, sometime, someplace, not of his choosing, maybe in another reality.
And Bernie Madoff will be in the next cell. And Cheney. And Rummy. And ad infinitum. Deliver us from these terminal asswipes!

[bdamomma]

144. yes he does like to inflict pain on people

and I wouldn't doubt that he talked to Maliki about this and had this reporter arrested. This sneazy and insane man bush is a snake, someday he will get his just dues.

[mod mom]

132. Soulless motherf**ker-exactly!

[uppityperson]

7. fuck. k&r It wasn't enough that "unknowns" kidnapped/beat him before.

NOT IN MY NAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[BrklynLiberal]

8. I hope that world-wide public opinion will save this man.

US intervention would certainly help.

[Window]

114. I truly hope so, too. This is disgusting beyond words.

[wandathewitch]

122. I agree with the world watch

Let the world order bring about justice.

[uppityperson]

9. Camp Cropper prison, this article says.

http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2008/12/16/urgent-just-reported-al-zaidi-in-us-run-camp-cropper-prison/

Urgent, just reported: Al-Zaidi in U.S. run Camp Cropper prison

Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison .

The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

P.S.

I am just telling you what I heard on TV.

--------------------
Edited to add wiki link on Camp Cropper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Cropper

[liberal N proud]

14. Why am I not surprised?

[Clovis Sangrail]

15. and people expected.... what? /nt

[yardwork]

55. We torture people. It's what we do.

[hatrack]

62. No, no - we don't torture. We outsource it.

Y'know - the Holy Global Economy and all that . . .

[Fedja]

106. Wouldn't be any better

...only it's not true. The US does torture. Period.

[Clovis Sangrail]

68. it is what we do

and not just abroad

Constitutionally I've got the right to walk up to a cop and tell him I think he's a filthy fuckin' swine.
In the real world I can't do that without expecting to become the target of physical violence.

Assaulting the president??

no matter how much I admire what the guy did it's ludicrous to think they aren't going to make him pay for it in blood.

[liberalmuse]

16. I'm sure Bush directly ordered it.

I've said as much earlier, but was being facetious. Dear god, they better not be torturing him. If they are, then mark my words, Bush ordered it. May Bush experience every bit of pain he ever caused. May his entire administration be dragged to hell. Fuck him, his accomplices and all the dumber than shit minions in this country who voted for him. I have only the uttermost contemptuous thoughts for this scum. I've seen a lot of people who voted for Bush twice suffer. I used to feel bad, but now I don't. They all have innocent blood on their hands. I only feel sorry for the innocents they hurt with their dark philosophy. All of them deserve the worst this universe has to offer for putting this evil subhuman in office.

[Peregrine Took]

63. DId anyone catch the look of complete HATRED that flashed on Bush'es face

right after the first shoe was thrown?

This poor SOB, I'll be praying for him until he is released.

[tnlefty]

84. Are you referencing when his 'coke jaw' was in overdrive?

I noticed that, along with the narrowed eyes and all of the ugly that is Dimson**.

[bdamomma]

145. Bush seeks revenge on people and his response

is SO WHAT?

[uppityperson]

18. Could be result of being beaten right after insult...(no excuse, more links here)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/world/middleeast/16shoe.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&em

Witnesses said that Mr. Zaidi had been severely beaten by security officers on Sunday after being tackled at the press conference and dragged out. One of his brothers, Maythem al-Zaidi, said Monday that the family had not heard from Mr. Zaidi since his arrest, and that a security officer who picked up Mr. Zaidi’s cellphone at midnight on Sunday had threatened the family. (more of course)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7783608.stm

An Iraqi official was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that the journalist was being interrogated to determine whether anybody paid him to throw his shoes at President Bush.

He was also being tested for alcohol and drugs, and his shoes were being held as evidence, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2008/12/14/01003-20081214ARTFIG00183-un-journaliste-irakien-jette-ses-chaussures-sur-bush-.php

Des traces de sang étaient visibles ensuite à l'endroit où l'homme a été emporté par les agents de sécurité. (translated: Traces of blood were visible then at the place where the man was carried by the security agents.)

[The Sushi Bandit]

19. Related Story link...

http://current.com/items/89625128/come_throw_a_shoe_at_bush_this_wednesday.htm

[1776Forever]

20. Link on page goes here - Says his ribs & arm are broken..........

http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2008/12/16/urgent-just-reported-al-zaidi-in-us-run-camp-cropper-prison/

Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison .

The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

P.S.

I am just telling you what I heard on TV.

..............

This is from the link on the main page given in the post.

Terrible!

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. I'm skeptical of any and all news reports these days, but if verified...

I sadly would not be surprised. Sickened, but not surprised given the moral bankruptcy of this administration.

[stillcool]

22. That'll help...

at least he's used to it. There will be more outrage here, at his throwing his shoes, than there will be about his getting tortured at an American prison. Either the first time, or this time.

[shadowknows69]

23. Of course he is

W himself probably went to the room to personally get some shots in once he was tied up. Probably wouldn't be go much differently if it happened here.

[Mnemosyne]

76. That was my first thought also, shadow. After hearing about the "interrogation" room

under the White House a while back, no thing * does could surprise me. Nothing.

Only 36 days, 41 minutes and 3 seconds until January 20, 2009...

[crikkett]

180. tell me about the interrogation room under the white house, please.

where did you learn about it?

[Mnemosyne]

185. I read it here. I believe it was written in Woodward's book. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. What,is Bush working for al Qaeda now?

If this is the case, he's played right into the hands of the fanatics and has endangered every American in the theater.

[LaStrega]

25. "he can not move his right arm"

He could move it just fine when he hurled his loafers at the shrub.

This is so fucked up.

"I don't know what his beef is ..." "He just wanted to be on t.v."

No shrub. He wanted to offend you. But you're so thick nothing offends you.

:banghead:

[Wizard777]

27. Quad Per Sortem, Sternit Fortem, Omnes Mecum Palangite!

O'Fortuna :cry:

[Turbineguy]

28. I'm filing this in

the "they're not that stupid" folder.

But I've been amazingly wrong about such things before.

[The Sushi Bandit]

167. I have an "idiots" part in my blog

they will have that lable today!

[Lost-in-FL]

29. I wouldn't think they would be so stupid to beat this men when everyone is watching

I will take this with a heavy dose of skepticism.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

33. Bush was embarrassed on the world's stage.

Believe it.

[Lost-in-FL]

36. He won't give a shit. nt

[HCE SuiGeneris]

38. BS. The payment for such behavior, demeaning the sociopath-in-chief,

will be high.

[Lost-in-FL]

52. Then he would have...

taken out the reporter who took pictures of him drunk at the olympic games.

He "liberated" his country (sarcasm), he is using his freedom of expression, the one Saddam took away from the "poor bastard". I don't think he would give a shit about some guy throwing a shoe at him. We can all agree to disagree.

[defendandprotect]

101. I agree ... How can we help?

This was quite an event for Americans, as well -- with a lot of approval

which I'm sure added another dimension to the humiliation --

Plus it heartened many Iraqis --

I'd also suggest that the incident obviously made those guarding Bush look bad --

which would trigger concern for their jobs -- so I believe the stories of beatings/

torture.

[bushmeister0]

48. Can you imagine what Putin would have done?

he would have taken out his KGB special issue and shot the guy dead.

[mojowork_n]

65. Wrong, That's what Bush (the cowboy) would do -- in his dreams.

In his dreams, Putin would have charged off the podium and gone jaw to jaw with the reporter, winning a war of words by force of intellect and will.

Bush, on the other hand, completely lacks the moral and intellectural vigor to even have that sort of dream, so the comparison is baseless. (Like comparing apples and Tuesday.)

[bushmeister0]

72. Putin is not an intellectual. He's a bloodthirsty thug. That's where you're wrong.

W. has done a lot of horrific things, said a lot of stupid shit, but he never equated Africans with cannibals or organized his own storm trooper corps like Putin's youthful storm troopers, the Nashis. (Or assassinated an opponent with polonium-210, for that matter.)

Take a gander:

http://www.theotherrussia.org/tag/nashi/

At least, we here have some ability to moderate the excesses of our leaders.

[marasinghe]

202. true, that.

glad to see you guys were able to hold back eisenhower & macarthur from crapping on the koreans; a bunch of southern politicians from jim crow dehumanizings & lynchings; jfk, lbj, nixon & kissinger from incinerating those savage indo-chinese; kissinger, ford & reagan from slaughtering ungrateful south americans; old man bush from irradiating uppity iraqis; your current white house wizards from massacring mesopotamians, or unleashing the blackwater prince's mercenary storm troopers on the innocent civilian population of a country - or even gloating over the executions of death row females. props to your democracy, old chap; things could have been real ugly, if not for all the controls over your government's excesses; what with that 80% poll support for the 2nd war on iraq, and all.

[mojowork_n]

205. Consider the context...

I'm not saying Putin's the second coming of Vaclav Havel, necessarily, but he is a much better politician. Without trying to diminish his 'thuggishness,' I have to say he's not the same sort of Jeckyll and Hyde flip-a-switch (Now-he's-a-bully/Now-he's-a-meek-coward) sociopath that Dubya is. The post-shoe-throwing interview with Dubya was a completely pathetic exercise in "Yes, Mistress, please give me another" S-M doublespeak. (The other face of the bully who talks about 'preserving freedom' and 'bringing democracy' to people, when his foreign policy belligerence recognizes no limits.)

On the other hand, Putin's a glib talker whose first instinct is to "one-up" opponents -- and not to back away from anything edgy or confrontational.

Back in 2005, that perspicacious observer of the Russian scene, "Gary Brecher," explained Putin's "eating your opponents" comment completely within that context:

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7799&IBLOCK_ID=35

Vladimir Putin has jumped into the middle of the Dark Continent's darkest secrets. It happened at a photo op in Moscow, after Blair and the Russians had hammered out a deal to forgive more African debt.

Putin was probably worn out by Blair's smile. Blair may be a brilliant politician but that grin of his gives me the creeps. Looks too much like the Joker. He's got that fox-snout with a big cartoon grin wider than the face, like he swallowed a coat hanger.

Putin found a way to wipe the grin off Blair's face. He was getting noise about Russia's "human rights record" in the Q&A photo op, and he's not the kind of guy to put up with too much hassle from the press. That's not the kind of thing they teach you in the KGB. He popped up with what the Brits are calling "an astonishing outburst": "We all know that African countries used to have a tradition of eating their own adversaries. We don't have such a tradition or process or culture and I believe the comparison between Africa and Russia is not quite just."

Not to dismiss the jingoism of the Us-First youthful Storm Troopers, or the stifling of opposition in the media (that's worse, to me, than the alleged "poisoning" of Litvinenko -- there are several theories extant about that one), but I'd say -- look at the timeline of recent history, before making a final evaluation of the Bush-Putin ("who's more evil") question.

55 years ago, when the Georgian Dwarf was finally done in by a lethal dose of poison, if you were going to do a side-by-side pie-chart, or bar-graph comparison of "Free World" and "Eastern Bloc" leadership, the bar graph for Moscow would have been close to, or even below, the horizontal axis. With Eisenhauer representing the West, there was some cloudy fuzziness about some of the edge-lines near the bottom of the chart (that whole 'military-industrial' complex thing), but it was no comparison...

Today, Russia's gotten a whole lot better, no matter how you care to measure.

The West? Where do we start?

...The Bail-out Theft (public defrauding) of the Treasury, an institutionalized gang of insiders running foreign policy on behalf of their own core constituency (Halliburton/Blackwater/the Oil Companies), public Media that's been completely eviscerated by corporate consolidation, as it's been overshadowed by the Executive Branch...

If you were to draw a graph, the negative slope of the curve would be way past "falling off a cliff" bad...

At least, that's the context in which I see the comparison.

Plus, I just like saying the word, "Putin." It's common blackfolks-speak for "cuttin' the cheese." Poot'n is what you do when you've eaten too many beans. What a wonderful name, for your Top Glorious Patriotic First Leader of the Masses! (It's like a subliminal check-and-balance -- this is one Leader no one should want to "stand behind," or not too closely, anyway.)

And as far as Bush never having assassinated an opponent, there's the strange and troubling case of Margie S.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margie_Schoedinger

http://www.opednews.com/thoreau1103bush_rape_suicide.htm

[Dangerman]

37. And he DESERVE IT!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

39. He deserves much more.

My point is that the reporter is going to pay a very steep price for his courageous act.

[Dangerman]

210. I'm afriad he did...

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=78617§ionid=351020201

[AtheistCrusader]

82. Oh, I don't doubt he's injured.

The way they dogpiled him to the ground and physically dragged him from the press room, it's pretty much impossible he's in perfect condition.

Not sure I buy torture though. I don't believe Bush is that brazen by a long shot. Not while the whole of international media is focused on this guy. Any possible investigation is going to fall under Obama's watch, so there will be no get out of jail free card.

[TankLV]

91. On the contrary, I have no doubt he's been/being TORTURED...

just look at everything everyone has said in the past that "oh, no, we could NEVER do THAT" bullshit, and our WORST fears have be proved EVERY FUCKING TIME...

That'll teach the NEXT guy, hopefully, to have better aim when they take on the little WAR CRIMINAL!

it was a damn shame...

THAT HE MISSED - TWICE!

[louis-t]

152. One of the men in the room kicked him as he

was being subdued. You can see it on the extended version of the video.

[Shardik]

30. And W tried to pass this off as the new "freedoms" there are in Iraq.

This sickens me.

[uppityperson]

31. Interesting blog on reporting in Iraq. And an article on a 25 yr old detainee dying today @ camp cr

http://middleeastblog.wordpress.com/

Beware, graphic picts in this one.
http://middleeastblog.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/no-photographs-allowed-detaining-those-documenting-the-war/

The U.S army has refused to obey an Iraqi court order to release detained Reuters photographer Ibrahim Jassam Mohammed, insisting that it would hold him until January 2009.

The Iraqi Central Criminal court ruled on November 30 that there was no evidence against Jassam, who also works for other Iraqi media, and ordered his imminent release from Camp Cropper prison near Baghdad airport, where he has been detained since September.

The U.S military has claimed in the past that it has the right to hold detainees even if they have been found innocent by an Iraqi court.

Major Neal Fisher said of the case: “Though we appreciate the decision of the Central Criminal Court of Iraq in the Jassam case, their decision does not negate the intelligence information that currently lists him as a threat to Iraq security and stability,”...(more@link)

I am NOT saying this is Muntazer al-Zaidi, but found it while searching.

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24370&Itemid=21

A 25-year-old male detainee died at Camp Cropper Dec. 14.

The detainee, shortly after complaining of symptoms consistent with cardiac arrest, lost consciousness prior to being transferred to the guard force on duty.

The detainee was immediately transported to the 115th Combat Area Support Hospital for emergency medical treatment. Shortly thereafter, the patient failed to regain consciousness and was pronounced dead by the attending physician approximately one hour later.

An autopsy is being conducted to ascertain cause of death. The name of the deceased is being withheld pending notification of next of kin. Upon conclusion of the autopsy, the remains of the deceased will be transferred to the family in accordance with standard procedure.

[northofdenali]

117. From our favorite Supreme Court Justice...........

and I use that phrase with hard-line :sarcasm:

“Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached”
Antonin Scalia quotes (American Supreme court justice , b.1936)

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/mere_factual_innocence_is_no_reason_not_to_carry/186036.html

And anyone, ANYONE thinks that the asshole occupying the White House for the next 35 days isn't capable of ordering the torture of this Iraqi patriot? WRONG.

The fucking sociopath probably has them taping every second, and is giggling while watching it.

[Wizard777]

32. I guess the Yamashita Standard of the Nuremberg Principle must not exist any longer.

It only goes back to Sun Tzu and his Art of war. Much of which is now illegal under international law. But even Sun Tzu demanded that a commander be responsible for his troops. This is just becoming unbearable.

[Bluebear]

34. Impossible! The US does not torture!

:sarcasm:

[sarcasmo]

35. These Idiots can't leave office soon enough, damn it's taking so long for January 21st.

[lenegal]

41. And Bush wonder why the world hates him?

Don't think the Iraqis will let this go. If this man is tortured further or killed, it will inflame Iraqis further.

[Harry Monroe]

73. I don't think he wonders

I don't even think he knows!! He is a permanent resident of his own little reality bubble; nothing pierces its membrane.

[hollowdweller]

42. Iraq: Meet the new boss same as the old boss

[northofdenali]

118. ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3mi-bKtDGA

Townsend and Daltry live...........

[Wizard777]

43. So what is President Obama's position on this?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

85. PLEASE Obama, make a statement!

He can denounce the man's actions while calling for leniency. The latest news is that he is being tortured in a US led prison.

[Wizard777]

86. The man who killed one of America's most beloved Presidents was not tortured.

Lee Harvey Oswald was murdered. But he was not tortured. So I cannot see any kind of a precedence for this.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

89. But the man who threw shoes at America's LEAST beloved Presidents IS being tortured

There is something wrong with that and I don't give a shit about precedence. He needs to be saved. If Obama can't say anything WE should.

[TankLV]

92. So true, so very horribly true...

[defendandprotect]

96. Being "murdered" isn't being tortured ...?

Ruby had a strong connection to Nixon going back to the Alger Hiss

case... and to Oswald --

Oswald was "employed by the CIA working on high level assignments

and probably also for the FBI" -- according to the Tunnheim Panel/

1992 JFK Classified Records Act.

[soulcore]

183. Murder is the ULTIMATE form of torture. n/t

[HEyHEY]

111. Yeah Obama, make a statement based on a "current TV' report!

[Wizard777]

141. It's made it's way to BBC. AMM shouldn't be too far behind.

They just have to figure out how to report this without mentioning. Al Zaidi is a hero here in America too.

[robinlynne]

155. Especially since he is mainaining Gates as sec of Defense, who is responsible for this.

[RedCloud]

44. The more benefit of the doubt you give to Bush-ism

the more he will con you.

Tell me now oh those he dragged through the mud of hatred, how many towers fell in New York that day 7 years ago?

Two (What Big Brother wants you to believe)

or Four?

[bushmeister0]

45. Questionable source yes, but when Cheney is still saying waterboarding is just A-OK

it's not exactly a stretch, is it? (Unless they're using that "enhanced technique" nowadays, too. Look for really tall Iraqis.)

AFP

"Sheikh Mohammed was subjected to a forced interrogation method that simulates drowning known as waterboarding.

'I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the agency in effect came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do,' Cheney said.

'And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it,' Cheney said.

ABC asked him if in hindsight he thought the tactics went too far. 'I don't,' Cheney said."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081215/pl_afp/usattacksguantanamocheney

See? So even if this report is bogus, after seeing the pics at Abu Ghraib, and the whole "liberation" of Iraq thing and its bloody aftermath, why would anyone question the assertion that our good, democratic friends in the Iraqi security forces are torturing this poor bastard to within an inch of his life as we speak?

Cheney is still free to say that everything they've done, including proudly taking credit for authorizing waterboarding, is perfectly legal, and who is to argue with him? Obama is silent. Pelosi is being all "off the tablelly," Harry Reid is being all "bi-partisanilly" and the world awaits justice.

When the president -- or the vice president -- says it's legal, it is. Until someone says anything different, it is.

[defendandprotect]

98. Cheney has a 9% approval rating ....

and the world stands against wars of aggression and torture.

The torturers are alone.

[The abyss]

46. Could this become the spark…?

The spark that culminates into our “Algerian moment”?

[Karenina]

51. Got your tin foil ready?

Mine was fitted at a specialty shop. :tinfoilhat:

The dogs didn't bark. The journalist was set up.
He gets beaten to death in American custody, the Iraqis freak.
All hell breaks loose there among SO MANY OTHER THINGS before Obama gets the keys.
Gotta LOVE Madoff! :patriot:

[me b zola]

59. That thought has crossed my mind...

...several times. :(

[The abyss]

66. I have no problem with this idea

How many rounds could have gone off, against a target a matter of feet away?

[zonmoy]

105. Sounds about what the caballists planned to happen.

[zonmoy]

104. Algerian moment?

[northofdenali]

120. Sociology and Camus in one fell swoop -

Algeria: the passage to sociology
This Algerian moment will be decisive: it is there, indeed, which its career of sociologist decides. Forsaking philosophy, it, thus, will carry out a whole series of work of ethnology in Algérie, which will lead to the writing of several books. Its first investigations carry out it in the areas of Kabylie and Collo, bastions nationalist where the war makes rage. After a Sociologie of Algeria published in 1958, which is a synthesis of the existing knowledge on the country, it publishes, in 1963, Travail and workers in Algeria , study of discovered paid work and formation of the urban proletariat in Algeria, in collaboration with Alain Darbel, Jean-Paul Rivet and Claude Seibel. 1964 see the publication of the Uprooting. The crisis of traditional agriculture in Algeria , collaboration with Abdelmalek Sayad, on the destruction of agriculture and the traditional company and the policy of regrouping of the populations by the French Army. After its return in France, Bourdieu profits, until 1964, of school vacations to collect new data on urban and rural Algeria of the time.

The ethnological ground of Kabylie did not cease, even after it had ceased going there, nourishing the anthropological work of Pierre Bourdieu. Its principal work on the theory of the action Draft of a theory of the practice (1972) and the direction practices (1980) are born thus from an anthropological reflection on the company traditional kabyle. In the same way, its work on the reports/ratios of kind, the male domination (1998), is based, for a share, on an analysis of the mechanisms of reproduction of the male domination in the traditional company kabyle.

http://www.speedylook.com/Pierre_Bourdieu.html

[Mira]

47. Son of a bitch. That makes me so angry. "So what?" if he threw a shoe

[Jackpine Radical]

49. Three thoughts: 1) He is not being tortured. There is no point in torturing him.

2) Nobody in Iraq or anywhere else in the Islamic world will believe he is not being tortured.

3) Bush & Co. are reaping the whirlwind for what they did at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere.

[Fedja]

107. According to experts...

...there is no point in torturing anyone, ever. Yet they do.

[Jackpine Radical]

138. Wrong. That is true only if you assume that the point of torture is to

extract useful information. That is not why torture is done. It is done to intimidate, to sow terror, even to gratify the sadistic impulses of the torturers. It serves all of those purposes. People are less likely to engage in "undesirable" activities if they think they may be tortured for them.

[AntiFascist]

176. I believe this is true...

the whole point of taking pictures at Abu Ghraib was to distribute them to potential troublemakers to let them know how they might also get humiliated if caught. This is why pseudo-intelligence people were involved.

[Fedja]

188. Sadly.

The intent may have been such, but it was counterproductive. I live in the Balkans, where people were shown that they may be killed if they're caught going against the interests of the occupying forces. This resulted in slaughter and carnage that is beyond my ability to describe.

Violence does indeed breed more violence.

[AntiFascist]

189. I totally agree...

whoever was behind the planning for these operations totally underestimated the outcome.

I'm going to use a word that may alienate much of DU but I don't care. The Nazis also felt that brutally oppressive methods would allow them to dominate the world by example.

[slackmaster]

50. Tagged for interest in case this story gets corroborated by a credible source

:hi:

[IndianaGreen]

58. You expect the MSM that lied to us about WMD to tell us anything about this?

They are nothing but corporate whores!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

87. Just because one side of the media has an agenda doesn't mean another doesn't as well

There are no more real sources of information or fact anymore, just propaganda from whoever controls the camera or the pen.

[slackmaster]

148. Corporate whores, or lapdogs of the left-wing liberal elite

Depending on who you are talking to.

[totodeinhere]

53. If this story is accurate, then the torturers and whoever ordered them to do the...

torturing need to be put on trial for war crimes. I hope that Obama will see to it that justice is done in this case.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

54. Is this true or just rumor or what? nt

[jfkraus]

56. Can we arrest that SOB already? Jeez.

[IndianaGreen]

57. This is the America we Leftists have known for a long time

The America that trains torturers and murderers at the infamous SOA in Fort Benning. Maliki is an American whore getting money from the US, while at the same time getting money from Iran. He's our guy in Baghdad!

Iraqis are worse off now than they ever were under Saddam.

[HEyHEY]

112. Oh get over it

Do you have ANY fucking idea what Saddam did to these people? Granted, the war wasn't there. And I'm not defending it, cause it should not have happened, but to somehow say that Iraqi people are treated worse now than they were by saddam is fucking retarded unless you're talking about the actual war. .

[arikara]

151. I usually agree with you

but not this time. Maybe Sadaam was a terrible person but they're being killed, tortured, disappeared and raped now too. Brutal opression has replaced brutal oppression. At least the people had a decent standard of living when Sadaam was in charge, food, jobs, water, electicity, hospitals... women werent forced to hide under burkas, children not born deformed from depleted uranium spread all over their country. So much more. So sad.

PEACE

[emilyg]

60. In the NYT pic he is throwing the shoe

with his RIGHT arm.

[MadMaddie]

61. So * removed Sadam in order to replace him with a hand picked

Maliki government that tortures...irony at it's best!

[ClayZ]

64. He threw shoes for MOST of the world!

He is MY hero!

[quidam56]

67. Mission Accomplished

Fucktard Bush has destroyed the world www.wisecountyissues.com

[Jennicut]

69. Yup, this will further help stabilize Iraq. What a sh*thead.

Shrub was clearly seething through his jokes. That is his personality to a tee, seething dislike and anger towards others who dare judge him or his views and actions. He knew what would happen to this man in Iraq. We allow torture all the time of prisoners there and in other parts of the world. Hell we do it ourselves too. Disgusting. Michael Ware on CNN reported that most Iraqis dislike Bush but were split on the fact that the reporter might have disgraced the country by doing it in front of the Iraqi president. Well, Bush shamed us all a long time ago. Jan 20th cannot come soon enough. Good freaking riddance.

[Maryland Liberal]

70. I'm Outraged !!!

OK - a number of us at DU hate Dubya - and with 4 good reason - but the shoe throwing incident aint a good reason to show it. In this incident - Bush aint a man - hes our country. We should support him - as a symbol of of country - and not the man. PS - it will help Obama too = unified front.

[IndianaGreen]

74. Bush is an enemy of the United States and of the Constitution

He is a bigger traitor than Benedict Arnold. Bush represents no one other than his deranged self.

[Harry Monroe]

75. Bush IS NOT a symbol of this country!!!!

He's a poster boy for psychopaths everywhere. That poor excuse for a human being is NOT representative of what I want this country to be!! He represents the WORST of the country!!! Take your bullshit over to Free Republic.

[TankLV]

93. You are SOOO very WRONG on so many levels...

First of which is - bush is NOT "our country" - he never was, never will be. He was ILLEGALLY installed in the first place, therefore he has NO LEGITIMACY.

But in a way you ARE right - he is a "symbol" of our country - and as such - for what he's done - he's commited WAR CRIMES - and as such, he should be ARRESTED, TRIED and EXECUTED, not running around free and about to have a nice retirement.

The shoe thrower is a HERO - HE'S a symbol of THEIR COUNTRY that bush ILLEGALLY INVADED!

the only thing wrong is that he MISSED!

[HEyHEY]

113. Imagine if you will.....

You live in a country invaded by people from across the sea. Hundreds of thousands, millions even are killed. The soldiers of this army are in your soil everyday. Before they came it was bad, but not this bad. And when they leave, civil war could break out. I'd THROW FUCKING SHOES AT THEM TOO!

And you have the gall to blame this man for throwin a shoe at your country? You threw millions of pounds of explosives at his...

moron.

[irislake]

121. Support him as a symbol of your country????

Surely you are aware that world opinion of your country is in the pits! I cannot believe you wouldn't want to distance yourself from that psychopathic war criminal.
God only knows why you think your pretzeldents deserve such reverance -- or even their office is regarded with sacred awe. Someone threw a pie in the face of our PM and it didn't cause such a fuss. No big deal. But I am not surprised he is being tortured. Not at all.

[Dukkha]

147. "we should support him"

right out of the freeper playbook

spare us your phony outrage and your forced loyalty to a war criminal. it's obvious which side you're really on.
:eyes:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

177. "We should support him - as a symbol of of country"

Um. No.

Fuck no.

[riverwalker]

71. do something PRODUCTIVE about it!!

[e-mail]
<[e-mail]>

I will try to find whatever email/phone contacts that may help.
PLEASE post others and any PRODUCTIVE ideas to help this guy before he dies.

[politicalfan08]

77. George W. Bush, President Attacked By Shoe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwJHWkLva5k

[agincourt]

78. Way more punishment,

then the incident warranted. I think he got beaten and tortured for the security embarrassment.

[Doremus]

80. Not surprising. His screams could be heard as soon as he hit the floor

with 20 guards on top of him.

I wish we could do something to stop it. :cry:

He showed more integrity in 30 seconds than the whole of the Bush admin in 8 years.

[Phredicles]

83. Not to mention more integrity than the mainstream press or the

Servile "Opposition" (I'm looking at you, Reid and Pelosi...).

[zonmoy]

108. Not to mention every other democrat other than kucinich

or were there other democrats that tried to impeach bush.

[timtom]

129. Actually, Cynthia McKinney

while she was still a Democrat.

[zonmoy]

211. Interesting that the only halfway decent democratic leaders are fleeing the democratic party for the

greens.

[alfredo]

81. Whether true or not, it's what people expect from us, and will believe

that report.


Damn

[NJCher]

88. what would you pay for a defining moment?

...a moment that would go down in history, as it looks like this will.

The man has suffered broken ribs and an undefined arm injury. Maybe a broken arm. He was beaten and terrorized by "security."

Tell you what: I'd take it for the opportunity to humiliate and brand bush like what this courageous reporter did. Yes, you heard me right. I would take some broken ribs (yes, I've had some before and I know how painful it is) and a broken arm for the chance to sum up bush's disgraceful oil grab with a shoe in the face.

The action has been played over and over on the media all day long. It's all anyone talks about. Yes, Al-Zaidi is in pain but if he's lucky, he'll be on the mend in six months or so.

But the sight of a shoe headed for bush's head, and the sight of bush cowering and dodging...this is emblazoned in the minds of millions and millions of people.

No other leader has suffered such a fait accompli at the hands of a mere journalist.

He humiliated the frat boy presidency. Al-Zaidi branded him.

I would hate to be bush's handlers, trying to figure out how to mitigate this.



Cher

[NJCher]

142. NY Times story this a.m.

I wanted to add this to my post but it's over one hour ago.

This a.m., the NY Times has a story which also makes the points I made in my above post. Here's the link and some excerpts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/world/middleeast/16shoe.html?hp

The instantly mythic moment took place Sunday night at a news conference by President Bush and Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki in Baghdad’s Green Zone, a session meant partly to trumpet recent security gains in Iraq.

I like that: instantly mythic.

In Syria, Mr. Zaidi’s picture was shown all day on state television, with Syrians calling in to share their admiration for his gesture and his bravery. In central Damascus, a huge banner hung over a street, reading, “Oh, heroic journalist, thank you so much for what you have done.”



Cher

[IndianaGreen]

90. There is a diary about this on Daily Kos

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/15/212620/44/799/673490

[cstanleytech]

95. Do some of you really believe this?

If so I find that kinda disturbing that you would believe it automatically without question and no thats not meant as a defense of Bush.
It's just that in my opinion when you consider the source of the story and the fact the guy was taken away in front of the international press the likelyhood that our troops would even try to get away with this let alone even do it with the press watching over their shoulder as it were is very low.

[slay]

109. Show me why we should NOT believe this

I'm just sayin.. :shrug:

Also - I don't trust hardly anybody who has power these days, which I think is justified based on the past 8 years.

[cstanleytech]

115. Yeah I know the Bush history in regards to the treatment of being it has

held in its misnamed and misguided "War on terror" and I think its criminal however that does not mean automatically that this particular story has legs.

[timtom]

131. Given the history of secrecy and inhumane policies over the last eight years

that, at the very least, probability determines that it's true.

[cstanleytech]

160. Nope, not at all.

As I said in another post its faulty thinking to automatically think its true because its happened before.

[timtom]

172. Sorry, but I still go with probability.

While it may be otherwise, it is still most likely that...

[iconicgnom]

157. are you joking. Just today your VP told the world he's proud of waterboarding and Gitmo, etc.

And y'know the precedent is now set for the US to do it openly, rather than via proxies.

[cstanleytech]

159. Nope not joking, it just does not make sense for the bush administration to risk

mistreating this guy, you and others are assuming automatically that because such abuses and torture have occured in the past that this story then must be true and thats just faulty thinking.

[iconicgnom]

165. The "story" has yet to be debunked.

And yes, I and others do tend to consider the scenario of greatest probability to be, like, most probable, esp. considering well-known info on how the US and it's proxy gov'ts have been operating for the past several years puts that probability in the stratospheric range.

[cstanleytech]

166. Its true because its not been debunked?

Well I guess aliens did crash at roswell then :crazy:

[iconicgnom]

169. Yes, given past experience, I think it's quite likely true.

It says something about you, that you think it's as unlikely as a "space aliens" story.

[cstanleytech]

181. In this case I'll take that as a compliment even though I know you

didnt intend it to be.

[norepubsin08]

97. How do we get a petition started

to send to the Senate and demand that they intercede in this?

[fbahrami]

99. also a petition to free al-Zaidi

I'd be interested to know how Mundtadhar al-Zaidi is treated, before the shoe-throwing story is forgotten. My bet is that he is being *severely* punished, but I don't know if he'll make it out alive and/or in one piece.

[ananda]

100. Zaidi will be a holy martyr.

nt

[jeff30997]

103. K&R

Truly disgusting.

[HEyHEY]

110. Uh...yeah... I gotta say I'm not so hot on the source here.

A brief synopsis from some internet site quoting Al Sharqiya TV?

[iconicgnom]

158. Al Sharqiya, the guy's brother, etc., sound to Arabic for you?

[HEyHEY]

174. Why don't you do some research into the station

And you'll see the dude who runs it used to be a good buddy of Saddam.... but I guess it's easier to call me a racist.

[iconicgnom]

186. You expect, maybe, an ex good buddy of Bush? You prefer that arabic stations have US MSM biases?

[HEyHEY]

187. You DO realize that it's not one way or the other right?

ANd that it is possible to question any news source? Or, again, forget about just accepting someone is being skeptical of a media outlet and call them a racist friend of big money facists. Learn to think on your own.


But you can also just keep up with your with us or against us attitude and become a mindless tool of a different side of an argument.

[iconicgnom]

190. It's you who's skeptical purely based on "the source". By the way, BBC, The Guardian, etc., are

reporting similar, tho' the international herald tribune reports both confirmations and a denial.

Skepticism purely based on "the source", in this case an association with "Saddam", isn't being open minded.

[HEyHEY]

191. Uh.... you only believed it because you wanted to.

I've never heard of this news agency before and when I look into it I find its got some shady people behind it. But, according to you, I'm supposed to just BELIEVE anything out there at first glance. I can't even begin to explain how thick that is.

Yes, it is being reported by the other NOW... last night it wasn't.

[iconicgnom]

192. You just said it, that you prejudge people as being "shady" based purely on their associations..

In this case, having worked in Iraq during Saddam's time is enough to set your opinion.
Dude, who do you think *sold* Saddam chem weapons?
You don't seem to have a clue the dynamics of those ugly events.

[HEyHEY]

193. Wow, everything is SOOO black and white, isn't it?

He didn't "Work" in Iraq, he and Hussein were friends. And yeah, I find news-reports from a media outlet run by a guy who was buddies with the man who was just defeated BY the the country made to look bad in the report a bit suspect at first glance when I see it... it's called THINKING. Try it sometime.

And what? Just because rumsfeld and his cronies sold Iraq weapons to fight the Iranians and gas Kurds means this news outfit is legit? How old are you? How did you make it this far?

You ARE aware it's people like you that have allowed some of the most horrifying acts in history to take place, right? If something is along your line of thinking or being told to you by someone you believe to be on your side, you just believe it. Then you accuse anyone who doesn't of being a bad person, in this case a racist. It's pretty sad. You're a sheep, a drone. And if you haven't figured out the basics of critical thinking on your own by now, you likely never will. So, you'll spend the rest of your life being victimized by politicians and sleazeballs like the guy from the sham-wow ads. Are you liberal because you actually believe in freedom, knowledge and a better life for all? Or just because it's cool in whatever circle of beatnik bongo playing potheads you hang out with?

Ever done anything productive? And don't count protesting a Ted Nuget concert.

[iconicgnom]

194. "You ARE aware it's people like you that have allowed some of the most horrifying acts in history..

"You ARE aware it's people like you that have allowed some of the most horrifying acts in history to take place, right?"

OK, OK.
calm down.

take your meds.

[HEyHEY]

199. Oh, now you're making prejudiced remarks against people on meds? So on top of it all...

You're a hypocrite. I'm a racist for saying I don't trust a news source I've never heard of and YOU can just go around insulting people who require medication for mental illness.

If I began a blog about what a tit you are I have a feeling people would believe it without question.

[iconicgnom]

200. I agree, I'm a pretty evil puppy, in your opinion.

[HEyHEY]

201. I don't think you're evil... just dimwitted, gullible and prone to hypocrisy

GOOD DAY.

[iconicgnom]

204. and I've "allowed some of the most horrifying acts in history", as well.

You're most voluble in your opinion.

:hi:

[HEyHEY]

207. I SAID, "GOOD DAY!"

[northofdenali]

116. But, but -

weren't the Iraqi's SUPPOSED to throw something? Lessee, I think it was candy and flowers:




I'd think these might hurt more than size 10's.......

If anyone knows of a legal defense fund for al Zaidi, PM me or respond - I can give up my Alaskan Amber for a few days.

[northofdenali]

119. KICK, DAMMIT!! KICK, KICK KICK!!!

Every DU'er needs to see this thread. I've already emailed it to 23 folks and am adding on....

Hey, Sushi - I also have your website under "favorites"... see, I dared :)

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[irislake]

123. It was a major mistake PRwise

that Bush didn't make sure this man got off lightly. Personally I hope this blows up in his f------ face! I hope it focusses the world rage against the f---er!

[unapatriciated]

124. noticed a comment from TrythisOn at link

"I love hearing the ridiculous media going about "what an insult shoe-throwing is in the “Arab Culture.”"

That would be the culture that gave us women wearing burlap sacks, camel buggery and child suicide bombers, but likes to remind us how enlightened they were in 1300.

Here's a thought - maybe Al Gore can sell him some carbon credits.

PS - from a friend - hate us so much? When we go, we wil take back out water treatment plants, the schools we built, and THE INTERNET WE INVENTED that AMERICA LETS THE ARAB "WORLD" USE.

Forget shoes, I have a boot for the ungrateful arabs, and I know just whose rear where to put it"


I'm sure there are many who would not miss these water treatment plants.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/12/military_kbr_lawsuit_121508w/

not to mention all the other things we have given them from the mass killings of our Shock and Awe gift to the one gift that will keep giving for generations to come toxic, radioactive depleted uranium from OUR weapons.

[Nihil]

136. When will scum like that learn?

> When we go, we wil take back out water treatment plants,
> the schools we built, and THE INTERNET WE INVENTED that
> AMERICA LETS THE ARAB "WORLD" USE.
> Forget shoes, I have a boot for the ungrateful arabs,
> and I know just whose rear where to put it"

That illiterate slob is too fucking stupid to understand that
the only reason "we" built those schools (at exhorbitant cost)
and water treatment plants (which don't work) was because the
US & its glorious coalition of the stupid have spent most of
the last eighteen years illegally bombing the shit out of Iraq
and destroying their own schools, waterworks, houses, bridges,
roads, hospitals, men, women, children, ...

:grr:

[yy4me]

125. It took us 8 years to sink from the top to the bottom. We here

show as much disrespect for this evil administration. It is hypocritical to torture this man for doing the same. In their culture, this is no different than an obscene gesture.

I marvel at how low we have fallen.

Obama has quite a job ahead of him. How to you resurrect the standing of a country that has lost its humanity?

[Sex Pistol]

126. If he is being tortured, I'm sure it is at the hands of the Iraqis.

There is no way that the military would be stupid enough to torture this guy.

[Kip Humphrey]

127. That's OK because Irag is a democracy... Bush's kind of democracy.

:argh:

[Sex Pistol]

184. No, Saddam's kind of "democracy."

[olegramps]

128. Why would you be surprised if he is beaten?

Americans daily ignore our own police abusing those they arrest. Look at what has happened at our political conventions when our citizens gather peacefully to demonstrate. It is the pigs that over react and create riots. They get their rocks off beating innocent people. The fact of the matter is that the pigs attract a certain personality to join their ranks. People that are natural bullies, power hungry and born with a sadistic streak. If you don't believe that just view the videos of the police beating up the Freedom Riders and the Chicago Democratic National Convention protesters against the Vietnam War for just a couple of examples. The citizens in nearly every major city in the country pay out huge sums to victims of police brutality yearly. So don't be so damn smug in your condemnation of the same type of behavior going on in Iraq. This administration talked about how evil Saddam was and then condoned the very same brutality.

[LeftHander]

130. this is why he threw the shoe.

TO expose that the us is still torturing...

[tom_paine]

133. NO ONE throws ther shoes at Der Fuhrer. That Iraqi should be happy it's THESE Bushies and their

henchmen, and NOT the Bushies from the 1930s (and their henchmen/vassals) doing this to him, otherwise he would have already been "shot while trying to escape".

That's what the 1930s Bushies said about their murder victims.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

This guy the Bushies might actually have to let live, even if they torture the shit out of him.

Progress, right? The 1930s Bushies http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml would have simply tortured and murdered him, then said he was "shot while trying to escape".

Progress.

[George II]

134. How real can this be?

[Freddie Stubbs]

135. Armatures! If Saddam were still in charge, this guy would be dead already

[Nihil]

137. If Saddam were still in charge, this guy wouldn't have needed to throw anything at Bush.

In addition, the country & population would have been a damn sight
healthier, happier and more peaceful.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

140. That's a great standard. "Hey we're not as bad as Hussein. Woooohooo." Armatures????

If this story is accurate of course.

[Boo Boo]

139. This is a horseshit story

BBC reports that he was beaten while in custody of the Iraqi authorities, not the U.S. He'll also be charged and tried under Iraqi law.

This story doesn't even come close to passing the smell test. It's unnerving how many people here happily lap this crap up.

Suckers.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

149. Oh that's totally different then.

I mean, if he was beaten by Iraqi authorities not US. The beating must have felt so much better, in that case. :sarcasm:

[cstanleytech]

164. How, he didn't say that nor imply that he just pointed out some facts

of who did have custody of the guy, its not his fault that it turns out that some people here might have their feelings hurt now by being made fools of because they might have been gullible enough to automatically believe the story.

[Junkdrawer]

150. That's funny...most of us who have been following this administration....

think that anyone who believes the US is not controlling the "Iraqi authorities" are suckers.

[cstanleytech]

163. Well I dont believe they have control over them, support them?

Yes but no, not much if any control currently.

[cstanleytech]

161. Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed as well that

there are people here would automatically buy this story as well, not to say Bush is innocent, in fact I believe he should have been arrested long ago but this story is just not a story that holds water.

[LanternWaste]

171. merely a very probable truth...

I don't see anyone buying this as an Absolute Truth, merely a very probable truth.

And one story that I myself consider a very probable truth insofar as regarding the wholly factual articles which have come out in the past six years indicting both our administration and the Maliki government of abuses for far less reasons and with far fewer justifications.

[cstanleytech]

182. Oh its possible, I never said it wasn't I just dont think the source

of the story is reliable in this instance, get something from the BBC, CNN or something that reports it firsthand and I'll probably believe it more but not this source which I dont consider anymore reliable than I do fox news.

[bdamomma]

143. by throwing his shoes, bush is paying him back for assaulting him

bush is nothing but a mafia king.

[Odin2005]

146. My God, wasn't Condi just saying that the shoe-throwing was evidence that Iraq was "Free"?

Yet then they treat him the same way Saddam would have. :puke:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

153. TORTURED for throwing SHOES??

:mad: :wtf:

[Uncle Joe]

168. No, if he's being tortured it's for popping Bush's propaganda bubble. n/t

[iconicgnom]

196. Some people don't like that he did that, in a quintessentially pacifist way, at that.

I'm sure that few Iraqis failed to note that the shoes did strike the US flag, conveniently placed behind Bush for the photo-op.

[BoneDaddy]

156. George should have had the secret service

hold him and he should have said. "I am sorry for destroying your country, you had every right to throw that shoe at me." And then let him leave.

[Nikki Stone1]

173. What bothers me is that, even if the story's not true, it's believable.

Thanks, Junior.

[iconicgnom]

197. What bothers me is that were some particular story NOT true, some would take it as vindication.

As somehow casting aspersions on all the stories, on all the reality that we've bloody well lived through.

That's where it gets f'en sick.

[AntiFascist]

175. This is amazing if true...

it illustrates the true nature of our sick president.

[AmyCamus]

178. All Iraqi prisons are "US run prisons"

Your tax dollars at work.

[Show Thrower]

179. Global Hero

Muntadar al-Zaidi is not only a hero in Iraq and the Arab world he is a global hero! His courage and sacrifice should be honored by taking off ones shoes and facing the sole toward George Bush every time he is in public. If the world is forced to endure George Bush walking free; then George Bush should travel the earth seeing the soles of shoes. I am not Arab, but I think it is appropriate that all the public ridicule directed at George Bush be in the form of an Arab gesture. After all the majority of his crimes were perpetrated against the people of Iraq and the Arab world.

[tkmorris]

195. Couldn't agree more friend

And welcome to DU.

[iconicgnom]

198. Rather than "courage and sacrifice" I would put "ingenuity".

He certainly has helped set a trend.

[marasinghe]

203. i'm inclined to go with courage, over ingenuity.

from all accounts, his history of 'assisting' the current authorities in iraq, us & local, with their 'inquiries' - would have forewarned him of the likely repercussions. that didn't stop the dude from standing up & making a statement. i'd say this is one hell of a courageous guy; as confirmed by the multiple fractures. he's definitely got more guts than the several a*h*s on this thread (not, in any way, referencing you) who seem to have a problem with his stand for the truth, & for whatever pathetic iota of justice he was able to extract from this situation. to me - the guy's a hero.

[iconicgnom]

209. OK, you're right.

[marshall]

206. Throwing shoes is a form of protest speech!

If we outlaw shoes, only outlaws will have shoes!

[marshall]

208. I wonder who beat him?

Were they trying to question him? Was it an official meeting?
And did they degrade him by putting women's panties on his head?

[RavensChick]

212. I hope it wasn't his throwing arm!

Will this torture nonsense end?