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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:35 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Friday December 19
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Friday December 19, 2008

COUNTING THE DAYS
DAYS REMAINING IN THE * REGIME 32

WHERE'S OSAMA BIN-LADEN? 2606 DAYS
DAYS SINCE ENRON COLLAPSE = 2903
Number of Enron Execs in handcuffs = 19
ENRON EXECS CONVICTED = 10
Enron execs conveniently deceased = 3
Other Arrests of Execs = 54



U.S. FUTURES &
MARKETS INDICATORS>
NASDAQ FUTURES-----------------------------S&P FUTURES





AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.
$1 USD = EUR 1.06678
$1 USD = JPY 116.6200


In recognition of those prescient of the Dow's precipitous return of Bush values (9/29/08): JuneBourder and AnneD

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON December 18, 2008

Dow... 8,604.99 -219.35 (-2.55%)
Nasdaq... 1,552.37 -26.94 (-1.71%)
S&P 500... 885.28 -19.14 (-2.12%)
Gold future... 860.00 -8.50 (-0.99%)
30-Year Bond 2.55% -0.12 (-4.47%)
10-Yr Bond... 2.07% -0.12 (-5.30%)






GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver



PIEHOLE ALERT

Heads Up!
Preliminary info on appearances by Bush & Co. throughout the country. Details & links are added as they become available so check back. And if you know more, are organizing something, or would like to, contact actionpost@legitgov.org

For information on protests and other actions Citizens For Legitimate Government









Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Market WrapUp
Significant Long Term Bond Market Action
The Bubble Will Pop

BY MARTIN GOLDBERG, CMT


Rare is the time that a technician can state an event that is a long term sure thing. In my career as a technician-journalist there has been only one such time so far. On February 15th, 2007 with the S&P 500 volatility index at about 10, it was stated, “spreads must always exist and fear cannot go bankrupt.” Indeed fear did not go bankrupt and the volatility index turned bullish before going into an almost 2 year (so far) bull market.

In today’s markets we are likely at a point where there is another “sure thing” in front of us. The sure thing that I speak of is that of the bond market. The chart below of the 10-year US Treasury interest rate from 1960 to the present shows what is going on clearly, in pure and simple technical terms.

-see chart-

The bond market was in a long term (“secular”) bear market (interest rate trend in a bull market, shown) which peaked in a parabolic manner in the early 1980’s. The bull market in bond prices took hold, and this secular trend has been intact for a generation (~27 years). A trend that is 27 years old is difficult to call over or nearly over; especially when it is going as strong as ever in the short term. Yet the reasons are:

1. Similar to many long term bull markets, the parabolic move that is now taking place in the bond market probably consists of panic buying of bonds. It is unlikely that the buyers of bonds, whoever they may be, are being smart in their buying. Long term bull markets often end in parabolic moves driven by “dumb money.” After all one must ask, what did these buyers miss in the first 27 years of the bull market in bonds? They probably missed the same thing that February of 2000 Nasdaq buyers missed. They probably missed the same thing that late 1989 buyers of Japanese stocks missed. They probably missed the same thing that 1979 buyers of gold missed. They probably missed the same thing that sellers of bonds missed in 1982. They probably missed the same thing that 1637 Holland tulip buyers missed. They missed the profitable part of long term secular bull markets and now they are buying into the tail end of a bubble climax.

2. There is a definite limit to where the bull market can end. It is safe to say that at a 2.19% ten year return, interest rates are near a bottom. They will not go to zero.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. no goobermental reports today n/t
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oil rises slightly after sharp drop overnight
SINGAPORE – Oil prices rose slightly Friday in Asia after a sharp decline overnight as investors mulled how much the global economic slowdown will dampen crude demand.

Light, sweet crude for February delivery was up 78 cents to $42.45 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange by midafternoon in Singapore. The contract overnight fell $2.94 to settle at $41.67.

The January contract, which expires Friday, fell $3.84 overnight to settle at $36.22 after dropping as low as $35.98 a barrel, levels last seen in June 2004.

Investors have been discouraged by a stream of dismal economic news, highlighted by a string of company layoffs. Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., International Paper Co., Bank of America Corp. Western Digital Corp., Aetna Inc., and Newell Rubbermaid Inc., all announced mass job cuts in the past week.

....

In other Nymex trading, gasoline futures rose 1.81 cents to 98 cents a gallon. Heating oil gained 2.81 to $1.40 a gallon while natural gas for January delivery was steady at $5.54 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Texas Braces for an Oil Bust
The oil and gas industry accounts for almost 16% of the Texas gross domestic product, double what it was five years ago, and that means any slowdown in that sector will have a ripple effect on the state's overall economy. "There are signs of a slowdown," says Amarillo energy economist Karr Ingham said. "The jury is still out on whether it become a bust."

Oil prices began to fall in late summer, after gas topped $4 a gallon, and the drumbeat of bad economic news and the global slowdown has sent prices ever lower. "Prices got to an insane level," Texas economist M. Ray Perryman says, "but they are equally insane now." With the price of a barrel of oil hovering in the $45 range and natural gas cut in half from a high of $14 per thousand cubic feet, the domestic energy sector is now at a critical "tipping point," Perryman says. If prices dip lower, the pace of the slowdown will quicken as domestic oil and gas fields that demand expensive high-technology drilling methods will be shut, he adds.

Thanks to those high oil and gas prices earlier this year, the state of Texas raked in $363 million in oil production taxes in just the last quarter of fiscal 2008, 36% more than the same quarter a year ago, and $777 million in gas production taxes, up 55% over the same quarter a year ago. But the numbers are now beginning to tell a different tale. While natural gas production taxes are up 56% for the first quarter of fiscal 2009, oil production taxes have slipped from the 72% increase seen in fiscal 2008, to a 36% increase in the first quarter, according to the Texas State Comptroller. (The state levies a 7.5% severance tax on every barrel of oil or cubic foot of gas taken out of the ground.)

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1867105,00.html?xid=feed-yahoo-biztech
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Huh? $45 ppb is insane? Never heard that descriptor used on the way up. What happened to calls
of the virtues of the invisible hand of the free markets now? That's pretty much all you heard on the way up $60, $70, $80 all the way to $110 we were told the markets would determine the price to be beared based on supply and demand, speculators were NOT driving up prices. :eyes: How long did the state of TX think that cow was gonna give milk?
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
35. Morning Marketeers....
:donut: and lurkers. I won't take offense a the remarks 54anickle because actually this is not our first rodeo as they say here. Last year on the Economy thread I predicted that prices would drop this year and all during the summer I doubted my call. Most Texans thought they were crazy on the way up and oil is insanely priced now- remember-we paid high prices too and the brutal summers just about killed us-and then Ike came along and the town went without AC for a while. Many leaders have been bracing for this (except Real Estate). We have a low unemployment because folks have under hired for a time now and we have had real growth.

Remember the same thing hit in the 80's. Most folks banked this windfall. Cities and towns have a surplus and we hope it is enough to tide us over but we are expecting to make cuts before it is over. We learned the hard way after the 80's. Anyone even remotely associated with the energy industry knows that speculators bumped up the price of oil, corn, gold and any other commodity. We had to pay those prices too. But it take a base amount to produce oil (lease cost, exploration, etc). The cost of 40-50 is about right. Any lower and it becomes unprofitable-and one can't recoup costs. We were just as disgusted with Exxon's obscene profits as it hurts the small drillers and refiners in the long run. We lost some refiners in the last run up and we will lose drillers in this down turn.

So hubby and I are doing what all native and nearly native Texan are doing.....sucking it up and preparing as best we can for the storm ahead. I know I have been sounding alarms for the longest now-even warning folks about Bush the first time around. Enjoy the cheap gas now because the next time it shoots up-no one on this website will be able to afford it.

Happy hunting and watch out for the bears.




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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. One reason I went out and bought new tennies yesterday.
The oil price shock of last summer sent a shock wave through the entire population. I think that anyone with a functioning brain realizes that it can happen again, and they're making lifestyle adjustments. And not just temporary adjustments.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Hey AnneD. Didn't mean any offense to the locals down your way. But back
when oil was on the rise analysts were screaming for OPEC to produce more while OPEC upped production while pointing out speculators as being at fault. So maybe locally you Texans were calling it insane but the mainstream cheerleaders constantly quoted and rightfully ridiculed in this thread were not.

Now back to my snowblower.....
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. I know where you're coming from (and nothing but love for ya)....
but when is the last time analysts-especially from this admin been right about anything. The chairman of Exxon is no more a Texan than Dubya.

Most of us in Texans are in the same boat as everyone else. We're just trying to keep our heads above water. We are only doing a bit better because we saw this coming. In fact a driller prayer goes something like this 'Dear God, Please let oil get over $40 a barrel, I promise not to piss it away again'. Most folks didn't.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
54. Hey that's nothin'!
We here in Michigan are noting who's telling us "tough shit" and who's not. Just imagine the plan we're putting together for when everyone gets thirsty. Oh yes, we're makin' a list, checkin' it twice....rememberin' who was naughty or nice...(Alabama I'm lookin' at YOU for starters...)

Cheers,
Julie
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Hey Julie! Viva la revolution! You and your home state certainly manage to stay in the
thick of it!
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. Oil drops below $34 to lowest level in almost 5 years
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081219/bs_nm/us_markets_oil

LONDON (Reuters) – Oil fell below $34 on Friday to its lowest level in almost five years as the global economic slowdown overshadowed OPEC's record supply cuts.

U.S. light crude for January delivery fell $2.64 to $33.58 a barrel by 6:50 a.m. EST. It earlier touched $33.44, the lowest since early February 2004.

London Brent crude was trading 18 cents up at $43.54.

Oil prices have fallen by more than $110 from their peak above $147 in July. They look set for their second biggest weekly decline since 2003.

"Until traders see a sustained drop-off in the rate of demand destruction, the market will have a hard time establishing a floor," Jonathan Kornafel, Asia Director of Hudson Capital Energy, said.

"From a credibility standpoint, OPEC has no choice but to bite the bullet for the next few months."

Oil has continued to drop despite pledges by the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) this week to remove 2.2 million barrels per day from its supply, which will be the largest ever reduction by the producer group.

...more...
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bush considering 'orderly' auto bankruptcy
WASHINGTON – The Bush administration is looking at "orderly" bankruptcy as a possible way to deal with the desperately ailing U.S. auto industry, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Thursday as carmakers readied more plant closings and a half million new jobless claims underscored the deteriorating national economy.

....

President George W. Bush, asked earlier about an auto bailout, said he hadn't decided what he would do but didn't want to leave a mess for Barack Obama who takes office a month from Saturday. A White House decision on helping the troubled automakers could come as early as Friday.

Bush, like Paulson, spoke of the idea of bankruptcies orchestrated by the federal government as a possible way to go — without committing to it.

....

The Big Three automakers said anew that bankruptcy wasn't the answer, as did an official of the United Auto Workers who called the idea unworkable and even dangerous. GM said a report that it and Chrysler had restarted talks to combine was untrue.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081219/ap_on_bi_ge/meltdown_autos



I believe the conditions of the Big Three need to be addressed without opening the door to bankruptcy proceedings. Once that line is crossed - there is no turning back. It could very well mean that parties owed money from the Big Three will not get paid while restructuring takes place. As a result, millions of jobs could still be lost among the businesses that supply parts to critical areas of every car manufacturer. This includes Honda and Toyota.

Another point: Once bankruptcy is initiated then each company is subject to the possibility of total liquidation should Chapter 11 fail. That brings us back to the doomsday scenario, raising the specter of a global Depression led by auto manufacturing.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. I thought Michael Moore's suggestions made a lot of sense. Sure there
wouldn't be much profit in the beginning, but then again what immediate profit was there in putting a man on the moon? It's the long-term benefits that were envisioned, oh wait - nevermind.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. Did anyone notice the republicon's bait and switch on Wall Street?
When the Southern Senators killed the auto loan, the stock market started sinking fast. Japan and other market dropped like stones. Then the bush gang announced they may step up and provide a bridge loan to the auto manufacturers from the money they conned out of Congress for Wall Street. When American markets opened they didn't dive because they expected an auto loan. Now, the bush gang is backing out of the offered loan. But the markets seemed to have calmed thanks to the rate cut.

The republicon's could have had a Shelby or Corker market crash added to their list of destruction, but the bush gang plugged up that hole, at least temporarily.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. How much of this could have been prevented by a nice, orderly impeachment?
Thanks Nancy.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
59. Bingo! Good Point, Doc!
I got my copy of "I!" and watched it. Wish it were a true history, not everybody's unfulfilled wish.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. PIEHOLE ALERT: Bush to make announcement on autos at 9 a.m. Friday
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSWBT01029220081219

WASHINGTON, Dec 19 (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush will make an announcement about a rescue plan for the ailing U.S. automakers at 9 a.m. (1400 GMT) on Friday, the White House said.

No further details were immediately available.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. From what I picked up, watching his little chat at the AEI yesterday.
It will be the wrong decision, and will try to put all the pain on the UAW.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. see my post #29 - but here's the TRAP ... I mean TARP part
The remaining $4 billion in aid is contingent on the administration seeking access to the second half of the $700 billion financial rescue plan, known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the official said.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. GM, Chrysler to get $13.4 bln government loan in Dec, Jan
01. GM, Chrysler to get $13.4 bln government loan in Dec, Jan
8:50 AM ET, Dec 19, 2008
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Automakers to get $17.4 billion in government aid - check out the fine print!
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE4BI34F20081219

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The government will offer up to $17.4 billion in loans to the ailing U.S. automakers and expects General Motors and Chrysler LLC to access the money immediately, a senior administration official said on Friday.

Some $13.4 billion will be made available in December and January from the $700 billion fund that was originally designed to rescue struggling financial institutions, but the loans would be called back if the automakers cannot prove they are viable by March 31, the official said.

Viability would be mean that the companies must have a positive net present value, which doesn't necessarily mean immediate profitability but would require them to reach that point relatively soon, the official said.

The three-year loans would require limits on executive compensation and other perks, and the automakers would also have to provide warrants for non-voting stocks.

The remaining $4 billion in aid is contingent on the administration seeking access to the second half of the $700 billion financial rescue plan, known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the official said.
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. Game On
Bush said UAW must bend to non union foreign auto companies on wages and other concessions. This will be ugly.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
58. I'd Like to Give Bush an Orderly Bankruptcy
with FR Severance Payments, even.

With 9 inches of the fluffy white stuff falling on us, Michiganders are digging out of yet another disaster. I did buy a computer Monday, and haven't had the time and presence of mind to even open the box. What a year to cut the road plowing budget!

Still alive, reasonably solvent, and pushing the definitions of sanity.

Demeter
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. I have Ponzis for lunch!
Don't you?
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. How'd they taste?
Any side effects?
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
45. Initally rich and filling
but 30 minutes later you realize you are starving, so you ask a friend for his portion; promising to get him another, larger piece later on.


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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Debt: 12/17/2008 10,655,552,067,433.70 (UP 24,995,564,533.90) (All FICA.)
(Very little public debt change. The FICA debt, the money owed to us workers went up as much as it went down yesterday. Weird.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,418,658,027,770.20 + 4,236,894,039,663.57
DOWN 200,107,551.80 + UP 25,195,672,085.69
(NOTE: Excel 2007 cannot handle ten-trillion plus to the penny. It zeroes the penny.)

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 300-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.33 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: THEIR SHARE IS TEN BUCKS in a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is a federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)
(I hate those end to end dollars to the moon and back, or years to spend $100/second. Just say'n)
If you read this and have a suggestion or comment, good or bad, I'd love to see it.

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 1,685,726,062.58.
The average for the last 30 days would be 1,236,199,112.56.

There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 53 reports in 78 days of FY2009 averaging 11.90B$ per report, 8.09B$/day.

PROJECTION:
GWB** must relinquish the presidency in 34 days.
By that time the debt could be between 10.7 and 10.9T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
12/17/2008 10,655,552,067,433.70 GWB (UP 4,927,356,271,252.13 so far since Bush took office.)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 630,827,170,521.30 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
11/26/2008 +000,650,427,812.76 ------------********
11/28/2008 +000,783,239,406.89 ------------********
12/01/2008 +038,288,359,563.07 ------------********** Mon
12/02/2008 +000,199,375,927.74 ------------********
12/03/2008 -000,525,799,120.43 ---
12/04/2008 -022,902,653,130.86 -
12/05/2008 -000,187,074,568.06 ---
12/08/2008 -000,759,942,653.72 --- Mon
12/09/2008 +000,031,558,514.41 ------------*******
12/10/2008 +000,087,731,393.17 ------------*******
12/11/2008 -019,940,834,952.80 -
12/12/2008 -000,182,958,692.63 ---
12/15/2008 +027,986,876,028.13 ------------********** Mon
12/16/2008 +000,172,636,444.49 ------------********
12/17/2008 -000,200,107,551.80 ---

23,500,834,420.36 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $990,920,264,174.63 in last 90 days.
That's 991B$ in 90 days.
More than any year ever, except last year, and it's 97% of that highest year ever only in 90 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 90 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3650122&mesg_id=3650191
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
48. Debt: 12/18/2008 10,598,468,155,070.30 (DOWN 57,083,912,363.40) (Debt down.)
(Today very little FICA change and lots of public debt change to the tune of less debt. Lots of retiring notes, may be replaced in a day or two.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,360,780,102,719.10 + 4,237,688,052,351.27
DOWN 57,877,925,051.10 + UP 794,012,687.70
(NOTE: Excel 2007 cannot handle ten-trillion plus to the penny. It zeroes the penny.)

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 300-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.33 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: THEIR SHARE IS TEN BUCKS in a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is a federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)
(I hate those end to end dollars to the moon and back, or years to spend $100/second. Just say'n)
If you read this and have a suggestion or comment, good or bad, I'd love to see it.

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is -2,815,895,427.36.
The average for the last 30 days would be -2,064,989,980.06.

There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 54 reports in 79 days of FY2009 averaging 10.62B$ per report, 7.26B$/day.

PROJECTION:
GWB** must relinquish the presidency in 33 days.
By that time the debt could be between 10.5 and 10.8T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
12/18/2008 10,598,468,155,070.30 GWB (UP 4,870,272,358,888.73 so far since Bush took office.)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 573,743,258,157.90 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
11/28/2008 +000,783,239,406.89 ------------********
12/01/2008 +038,288,359,563.07 ------------********** Mon
12/02/2008 +000,199,375,927.74 ------------********
12/03/2008 -000,525,799,120.43 ---
12/04/2008 -022,902,653,130.86 -
12/05/2008 -000,187,074,568.06 ---
12/08/2008 -000,759,942,653.72 --- Mon
12/09/2008 +000,031,558,514.41 ------------*******
12/10/2008 +000,087,731,393.17 ------------*******
12/11/2008 -019,940,834,952.80 -
12/12/2008 -000,182,958,692.63 ---
12/15/2008 +027,986,876,028.13 ------------********** Mon
12/16/2008 +000,172,636,444.49 ------------********
12/17/2008 -000,200,107,551.80 ---
12/18/2008 -057,877,925,051.10 -

-35,027,518,443.50 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $933,836,351,811.23 in last 91 days.
That's 934B$ in 91 days.
More than any year ever, except last year, and it's 92% of that highest year ever only in 91 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 91 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3651810&mesg_id=3651825
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. Japan central bank cuts key rate to 0.1 percent
TOKYO – Japan's central bank cut its key interest rate to 0.1 percent on Friday, joining the U.S. Federal Reserve in lowering borrowing rates to nearly zero amid an ever-worsening outlook for the global economy.

....

The cut was widely expected and comes after the government earlier in the day lowered its economic forecast for the fiscal year through March to negative 0.8 percent from positive 1.3 percent.

The Bank of Japan's policy board voted 7-1 to cut the uncollateralized overnight call rate target from 0.3 percent. It was the second cut in less than two months. Japan's interest rates have gone lower — they were effectively at zero from 2001 to 2006.

....

The grim conditions facing Japan Inc. were underscored Monday in the Bank of Japan's "tankan" report, which showed that business confidence among big manufacturers fell at its fastest pace in 34 years. The quarterly survey also revealed that companies were having trouble raising money amid as credit tightens.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081219/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_central_bank
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. HIGHLIGHTS 2-BOJ Shirakawa says not in quantitative easing
TOKYO, Dec 19 (Reuters) - Bank of Japan Governor Masaaki Shirakawa said on Friday that the bank's decision to cut interest rates and buy more assets did not mark a return to a quantitative easing policy.

The BOJ cut its key policy rate to 0.10 percent and moved to pump funds into the market to ease a corporate credit crunch as the yen's sharp rise and crumbling demand batter the economy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUST29783820081219
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. Credit card crackdown hits in 2010
Pulling out the plastic could be a little less toxic after sweeping changes to credit card rules go into effect in July 2010.

We're looking at the largest crackdown on credit card companies in 30 years after federal regulators moved Thursday to approve some aggressive new restrictions.

Credit card issuers ultimately will need to redesign, rebuild and reprice their offerings based on these new rules.

.....

Under the new rules, consumers would no longer get whacked with a higher interest rate on existing balances if they mail the payment a day or two late.

.....

The credit card issuers still would be able to apply the higher penalty rate to both future and previous charges if the customer's payment is late by more than 30 days.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081219/COL07/812190392/1019/BUSINESS
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Well it's a step. When are they going to do something about the credit
reporting agencies. Why should I pay to block credit checks in an effort to protect my ID after the state gave my name, address and SS# to some 3rd party printer? Shouldn't it be blocked automatically and I pay to allow a creditor access when I apply for credit? And why is it now completely based on SS#s? It used to be a name, address and an existing account number (open or closed) was all that was needed to get at someone's credit report.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. HOORAY!! SNOW DAY!!!
Now I can sit and worry about the economy all day! :woohoo:
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Ours is a half day today.....
we hop the kids up on sugar-then send them home to their parents:evilgrin: Yes you heard the school Nurse right!
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
15. Tax Break May Have Helped Cause the Housing Bubble
Ryan J. Wampler had never made much money selling his own homes.

Starting in 1999, however, he began to do very well. Three times in eight years, Mr. Wampler — himself a home builder and developer — sold his home in the Phoenix area, always for a nice profit. With prices in Phoenix soaring, he made almost $700,000 on the three sales.

And thanks to a tax break proposed by President Bill Clinton and approved by Congress in 1997, he did not have to pay tax on most of that profit. It was a break that had not been available to generations of Americans before him. The benefits also did not apply to other investments, be they stocks, bonds or stakes in a small business. Those gains were all taxed at rates of up to 20 percent.

The different tax treatments gave people a new incentive to plow ever more money into real estate, and they did so. “When you give that big an incentive for people to buy and sell homes,” said Mr. Wampler, 44, a mild-mannered native of Phoenix who has two children, “they are going to buy and sell homes.”

By itself, the change in the tax law did not cause the housing bubble, economists say. Several other factors — a relaxation of lending standards, a failure by regulators to intervene, a sharp decline in interest rates and a collective belief that house prices could never fall — probably played larger roles.

But many economists say that the law had a noticeable impact, allowing home sales to become tax-free windfalls. A recent study of the provision by an economist at the Federal Reserve suggests that the number of homes sold was almost 17 percent higher over the last decade than it would have been without the law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/business/19tax.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Heh-heh, that headline seems like a bit of a stretch now doesn't it? May is the operative word
there I suppose. There were a lot of factors, as stated in the article. One other that I can think of that's not mentioned is how mobile our society had become as people made a lot of job-related moves as well. The notion of staying with a company until retirement became pretty novel in our service/consumer based economy.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Taxes on a house always were deferred, if

If you bought another more expensive house within 2 years.

The change was that you don't ever have to pay the taxes, if the gain is under $250,000 for singles, and twice that for married.
-----------------------



When you sell your primary residence, you can make up to $250,000 in profit if you're a single owner, twice that if you're married, and not owe any capital gains taxes.

"Most people are not going to have a tax obligation unless their gain is huge," says Bob Trinz, a senior tax analyst at RIA, which provides tax information and software to tax professionals.

Some sellers are surprised by this break, especially if they've been in their homes for a while. That's because before May 7, 1997, the only way you could avoid paying taxes on your home-sale profit was to use the money to buy another, more-expensive house within two years. Sellers age 55 or older had one other option. They could take a once-in-a-lifetime tax exemption of up to $125,000 in profits. And in all instances, there was tax paperwork (Form 2119) to fill out to show that you followed the rules.

But when the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 became law, the home-sale tax burden eased for millions of residential taxpayers. The rollover or once-in-a-lifetime options were replaced with the current per-sale exclusion amounts.


http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/real-estate/20041018a1.asp
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
21. dollar watch


http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Last trade 80.886 Change +1.240 (+1.60%)

US Dollar Forecast to Recover Against Euro, British Pound

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/topheadline/US_Dollar_Forecast_to_Recover_1229616477613.html

EURUSD – Euro Forecast to Turn Against US Dollar on Shift in Forex Sentiment
USDJPY – US Dollar May Lose Further Against the Japanese Yen
USDCHF – Forex Sentiment Accurately Forecasts Massive Swiss Franc Rally
GBPUSD – British Pound Outlook Bearish Against Downtrodden US Dollar
USDCAD – Canadian Dollar Forecast Unclear Against US Dollar

While the SSI is available once a week on DailyFX.com, you can receive SSI readings twice a day in DailyFX Plus Forex Intraday Trading Signals

The SSI sought a EURUSD rally since 1.26 and was signaling a reversal around 1.60.



Forex Positioning in the Euro/US Dollar



EURUSD – Forecasts for the Euro/US Dollar currency pair have now shifted to the downside, as a flip in retail forex positioning signals that the recent Euro/US Dollar uptrend may reverse. Last week we cited extremely net-short “crowd” positioning as a clear sign that the Euro would rally, but the forex crowd has now capitulated and the majority of traders are now long the EUR/USD. Indeed, the SSI ratio currently stands at 1.18 as nearly 54 percent of traders are long the pair. Yesterday only 40 percent of traders were long, and these reversals most often occur at turns in price. As such, our SSI-based forex trading signals recently went short the Euro/US Dollar via a sentiment-based trading strategy.

...more...


Euro Drops On Risk Aversion, As BoJ Rate Cut Raises Global Growth Concerns

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/bio1/Euro_Drops_On_Risk_Aversion__1229683687146.html

The Euro fell another 300 points in overnight trading as a rate cut by the Bank of Japan raised concerns that the current downturn in the global economy will continue longer then expected. The single currency erased most of its gains from the earlier in the week which saw it the sharpest rise against the dollar since its inception. Euro bulls pushed the currency down over 700 bps since yesterday’s high of 1.4721 down to as low as 1.3986. Bearish fundamental data also aided in fueling bearish sentiment as French business confidence fell to 73 from a revised 79, which was the lowest in 15 years. Meanwhile, German producer prices dropped 1.5% in November which was the biggest fall since records began in 1949.

The French sentiment reading reinforces the record low German IFO print from yesterday and clearly points to continues weakness in the region as business leaders will look to rein in expenses by slashing payroll. The labor markets will continue to weaken and in turn sink domestic growth. Following the ECB’s last policy decision President Trichet said the economic union was experiencing a period of disinflation but that deflation concerns wee premature. However, giving the sharp fall in producer prices and with consumer prices already at 2.1%, the central bank may need to reassess the downside risks to inflation. This mounting risk is the reason that markets continue to price in more easing from the MPC which could lead to further loses for the Euro as we and the year.

The sharp fall in the euro would drag the Pound lower as the same risk aversion sentiment would extend its losses. The Sterling would fall back below 1.5000. The has continued to trade heavy since the BoE minutes revealed the declining outlook for growth by the central bank which is expected to lower interest rates by another 50 bps. Next week will bring the final reading of 3Q GDP which could potentially be revised lower. A lower growth reading would add to the dimming outlook for 2009 which may lead to the Pound trading lower.

The BoJ cut their benchmark rate by 20 bps bringing it down to 0.10% and announced plans to buy commercial paper for the first time. The board voted 7-1 to lower rates with Tadao Noda has the sole dissenter. The central bank has followed the lead of the Fed as it uses all of the tools at its disposal.

The dollar roared back during overnight trading as a BoJ rate cut and falling oil prices signaled that there remains a considerable downside risk to the global economy. The dimming outlook for growth has reignited risk aversion which has benefitted the greenback as safe haven flows seek U.S. Treasury’s which are already trading at record low yields. An empty economic calendar could lead to the current bullish momentum continuing throughout the U.S. trading session. Low trading volume has made currency markets susceptible to increased volatility and any significant news could generate sharp moves. Therefore, the possibility that the U.S. auto industry could finally receive the aid that they are seeking today could sink the dollar if the news sparks risk appetite.

...more...

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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. Dollar Rises Versus Euro as Drop Considered Too Big to Sustain
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aD6lHQ28SK5s&refer=japan

Dec. 19 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar advanced the most against the euro in almost two months as traders said the decline after the Federal Reserve lowered interest rates to near zero this week was too fast to be sustained.

The euro also weakened after the European Commission said the region may suffer a “substantial” effect from the financial crisis next year. The yen traded near a 13-year high against the dollar even after the Bank of Japan lowered its benchmark interest rate to 0.1 percent.

“This was the most concentrated, rapid rally in the euro since its creation,” said Robert Sinche, head of global currency strategy at Bank of America Corp. in New York. “The market got a little ahead of itself in the short run. We are getting a healthy correction now.”

The dollar climbed 2.2 percent to $1.3930 versus the euro at 9:48 a.m. in New York, from $1.4240 yesterday, when it slumped to a 12-week low of $1.4719. The U.S. currency gained as much as 2.4 percent today, the biggest intraday increase since Oct. 24. The euro fell 2.1 percent to 124.72 yen from 127.44. The dollar traded at 89.46 yen, compared with 89.43. It dropped to 87.14 yen on Dec. 17, the lowest level since 1995.

The U.S. currency declined 4.3 percent against the euro this week after the Fed lowered its target lending rate on Dec. 16 to a range of zero to 0.25 percent. The Fed reiterated plans to purchase agency debt and mortgage-backed securities and said it will study buying Treasuries.

...more...
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. Mass. investor saw inside Madoff scam
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081219/ap_on_bi_ge/madoff_scandal_whistleblower

BOSTON – His repeated warnings that Wall Street money manager Bernard Madoff was running a giant Ponzi scheme have cast Harry Markopolos as an unheeded prophet.

But people who know or worked with Markopolos say it wasn't prescience that helped him foresee the collapse of Madoff's alleged $50 billion fraud. Instead, they say diligence and a strong moral sense drove his quixotic, nine-year quest to alert regulators about Madoff.

"He followed through on everything he ever did. He never let up," said his mother, Georgia Markopolos, in an interview Thursday. "Some kids just let it go if it's too hard, but he wouldn't do that."

<snip>

Researching Madoff's numbers, using data the firm distributed to prospective investors, diBartolomeo concluded within hours that it was impossible for Madoff to get the returns he reported while using the strategy he said he used.

"As the market goes up and down, this strategy should have done a little better or a little worse, just like everybody else," he said. "Instead, it appeared to be indifferent as to whether the market went up or down. They made money all the time."

Markopolos complained to the SEC's Boston office in May 1999, saying it was impossible for the kind of profit Madoff was reporting to have been gained legally.

But Madoff continued to thrive, even as Markopolos continued to pursue the case.

In 2005, he submitted a report to the SEC saying it was "highly likely" that "Madoff Securities is the world's largest Ponzi scheme." In the report, he says he knew his research could ruin people's careers and asked the SEC be discreet about circulating the report and his name.

...more...
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
24. The Madoff Economy By Paul Krugman
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/opinion/19krugman.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

The revelation that Bernard Madoff — brilliant investor (or so almost everyone thought), philanthropist, pillar of the community — was a phony has shocked the world, and understandably so. The scale of his alleged $50 billion Ponzi scheme is hard to comprehend.

Yet surely I’m not the only person to ask the obvious question: How different, really, is Mr. Madoff’s tale from the story of the investment industry as a whole?

The financial services industry has claimed an ever-growing share of the nation’s income over the past generation, making the people who run the industry incredibly rich. Yet, at this point, it looks as if much of the industry has been destroying value, not creating it. And it’s not just a matter of money: the vast riches achieved by those who managed other people’s money have had a corrupting effect on our society as a whole.

<snipping out lots of good reading>

Think of the way almost everyone important missed the warning signs of an impending crisis. How was that possible? How, for example, could Alan Greenspan have declared, just a few years ago, that “the financial system as a whole has become more resilient” — thanks to derivatives, no less? The answer, I believe, is that there’s an innate tendency on the part of even the elite to idolize men who are making a lot of money, and assume that they know what they’re doing.

...more...
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Oh, goody!
I've been waiting for Krugman's take on this! :bounce:
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #24
36. He nails it with "a corrupting effect on our society as a whole."
That is the thing most "investors" never even ask, how does my action affect society? The business mindset is to be a perfect investor/trader a person must put all personal/ethical/legal concerns aside and just make money. It is indeed a corrupt model.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
32. 9:54 EST numbers and Paulson taxpayer heist blackmail blather
Dow 8,678.59 73.60 (0.86%)
Nasdaq 1,577.15 24.78 (1.60%)
S&P 500 893.54 8.26 (0.93%)
10-Yr Bond 2.136% 0.062


NYSE Volume 1,246,888,375
Nasdaq Volume 540,447,187.5

09:45 am : Stocks open the session in higher ground amid broad-based gains. Eight of the 10 economic sectors are trading higher.

General Motors (GM 4.16, +0.50) and Ford (F 2.97, +0.13) are a couple of the most active stocks in the first few minutes of trading, as measured by volume. Interest in the stocks comes in the wake of an announcement that gives automakers $13.4 billion in TARP funds.

On a related note, Treasury Secretary Paulson recently stated that it is clear Congress will need to release the remainder of the TARP funds. DJ30 +58.54 NASDAQ +19.80 SP500 +5.27 NASDAQ Dec/Adv 596/1634 NYSE Dec/Adv 996/1701

09:15 am : S&P futures vs fair value: +8.20. Nasdaq futures vs fair value: +12.00. Stock futures have pulled back a bit, but continue to indicate the major indices will begin the session in higher ground, which would add to the week's previous gains. Heading into this session the stock market is up a modest 0.6%. Sentiment has been bolstered by news that automakers will receive funding from the Treasury's TARP. The plan aims to make available $13.4 billion up front, while an additional $4 billion will be available in February. That has shares of General Motors (GM) and Ford (F) trading higher in premarket action. In premarket trading, their shares were recently indicated 15.3% higher and 8.5% higher, respectively. News of the bailout plan has overshadowed word that Standard & Poor's downgraded the ratings and outlooks of several financial firms, including, but not limited to, Goldman Sachs (GS), Wells Fargo (WFC), JPMorgan Chase (JPM), and Bank of America (BAC). Shares of the financial firms have traded in mixed fashion during premarket action. Market participants have also been digesting in-line earnings results form Research in Motion (RIMM) and Oracle (ORCL), along with better-than-expected results from Accenture (ACN). Oil continues to slide as January contracts set to expire after this session's close. Crude fell as low as $33.50 per barrel this morning.

09:00 am : S&P futures vs fair value: +15.40. Nasdaq futures vs fair value: +17.30. U.S. stock futures continue to improve, and suggest an upward start. Dow Jones has reported that the White House will give automakers $13.4 billion in funding from the Treasury's Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). An additional $4.0 billion will be made available in February. President Bush is expected to make a statement regarding automakers momentarily. Shares of General Motors (GM) have responded to the announcement by climbing more than 6% in premarket trading, most recently indicated at roughly $3.90 per share. Ford (F) has also found favor; its shares are currently indicated about 5.6% higher at $3.00 per share. Separately, oil is on the slide again. January contracts fell to $33.50 in electronic trading, which is a new multiyear low. January contracts expire after this session.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
34. The archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams criticised MP Gordon Brown for
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 10:14 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
his response to the economic crisis in terms of a debt-funded fiscal stimulus, likening it to an "addict returning to a drug".

Well, that's fine as far as it goes, it seems to me, except that he couched it in terms of offending against Christian morality, not surprisingly inviting Brown's retort that he couldn't "walk on by" when others were in difficulty. I wish people would not associate Christian morality with so-called fiscal prudence, when it is quite clear from the Gospels that, as far as money was concerned, Christ was an extreme economic liberal - provided only that the liberality were properly directed at those who had always been denied even the barest modicum of their nation's bounty.

How politically telling it is that on the Mail's website today, the concluding paragraphs of the article are omitted. What Dr Williams went on to advocate quite witheringly was that the money, or most of it, should have been directed at the rebuilding of manufacturing industry.

"He insisted the country had been 'going in the wrong direction' by relying on financial speculation to generate wealth, rather than making things.'

Britain had 'backed itself into a corner' and must now rediscover patience and rethink the way it viewed material gain,' he said.

Asked if the looming recession could have positive consequences, he replied, "It's a sort of reality check, a reminder that what some people have been calling 'fairy gold' is just that.

Blair and Brown had had grandiose plans for the setting up of megacasinos! How ironical is that!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1097133/Archbishops-sermon-Brown-spending-way-crisis.html
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Nations of greed
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
38. TPM: Madoff investors hope for bailout
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/12/madoff_investors_hope_for_bail.php


One week ago, Ronnie Ambrosino was a millionaire.

Now, Ambrosino is among the long list of investors whose fortunes were allegedly wiped out by Bernard Madoff. Like them, she's left hoping for a bailout that might never come.

She plans to sue Madoff but that could take years to work through the courts and yield little in the end. Her best hope to recoup some of her money is from the Securities Investor Protection Corp., an industry-funded organization set up by the government to protect investors from fraud.

But, here's the problem: SIPC does not have enough money to pay out all the claims that are sure to come from one of the biggest fraud cases to ever hit Wall Street. Securities attorneys say the organization has a reputation of being tough to squeeze money from, and each investor is only entitled to a maximum payout of $500,000 if a claim is approved.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. What they need to do, and soon, is fund out who helped him.
Seize ALL of their assets under RICO statutes, including Madoff's cushy apartment, and let him spend his home arrest sleeping at the local YMCA.

If they're unwilling to do this, I'm unwilling to let them have one nickle of taxpayer money.

I remember back in '71 or '72, back before RICO, when I first started on the railroad. Everyone said that I should take out an allotment for deposit in the United Steelworkers Credit Union. I never got around to starting it, but in the mean time, the Director was embezzling everything in the place. This was back before credit unions were insured. Thousands of people lost everything they had, and they never recovered a dime. The director claimed he lost it all gambling.

The only bright spot was that the judge threw the book at him hard. And he kept an eye on the parole board, and every time this crook was eligible, the judge showed up at the hearing and made sure they he didn't get out.

Put every one of these bastards in a homeless shelter, and let them work as day laborers for the rest of their lives if they ever get out.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. You know what....
no one bailed me out. They were doing a lot of illegal stuff during the dot com boom and got fined for it.....did the government give that fine back to us ripped off investors? I never got my check. I just made some serious lifestyle choices, put my nose to the grindstone again and learned my lesson about trusting investors.

Sorry, this isn't called a casino for nothing. Maybe when we really small investors start screaming for more over site and transparency-some of these big dogs will stand with us. Until then- they can pound salt like the rest of us.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. Let me put it this way ---
"One week ago, Ronnie Ambrosino was a millionaire."


One week ago, Tansy Gold was not a millionaire.

Niether were a whole lot of other people.


I have no sympathy for ANYONE who directly and willingly invested in this hedge fund. They invested solely out of greed. They already had a lot of money, money they should have been aware could be lost. that's the caveat with ALL such "investing."

I feel sorry for those who were unknowing victims.

Maybe now Ronnie Ambrosino will learn what it's like to not be a millionaire. Welcome, Ronnie, to a very, very, very big club.


Tansy Gold


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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. What happened to the big rally?
160pt Dow gain disappeared faster than a Madoff investment. In like 15 minutes. In negative territory now.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Worms? Scabby fetid meats?
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 01:42 PM by ozymandius
Or as the blather says, "the buyers took a breather."

Edit: I dunno :shrug:
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Took a breather?
What, is jogging on treadmills a prerequisite for investing? :wtf:
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. Blatherers say the stoopidest things sometimes.
That ranks somewhere among the greatest idiot lines like "decided not to hold stocks over the weekend."
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
43. It's 1:38. Time for an update.
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 01:39 PM by ozymandius
Dow 8,663.21 Up 58.22 (0.68%)
Nasdaq 1,574.17 Up 21.80 (1.40%)
S&P 500 894.94 Up 9.66 (1.09%)
10-Yr Bond 2.094% Up 0.02

NYSE Volume 3,889,511,500
Nasdaq Volume 1,466,627,750


1:30 pm : The major indices are trending upward after taking out session lows. The ascent has been gradual with all 10 of the economic sectors participatng.

At their session lows, the Dow traded with a loss of 0.3%, while the S&P 500 showed a 0.1% gain and the Nasdaq showed a 0.6% gain. In contrast, the Dow sported a 2.1% gain at its session high, while the S&P 500 was up 2.3% and the Nasdaq was up 2.6% at their best levels.

The gains are certainly welcomed by investors. Stocks are currently up 0.9% week-to-date. Stocks were up 0.4% last week. If the gains hold, this will be fthe first time stocks staged two consecutive weeks of gains since mid-September.DJ30 +57.19 NASDAQ +22.03 SP500 +9.76 NASDAQ Dec/Adv/Vol 1029/1692/1.45 bln NYSE Dec/Adv/Vol 946/2101/1.28 bln

1:05 pm : News of a multibillion bailout for automakers prompted investors to bid the stock market more than 2% higher, but the gains turned over midsession as buyers took a breather.

The White House announced ahead of the session's opening bell that $17.4 billion in TARP funds will be made available for automakers to borrow. The announcement was met with a positive reaction among participants as the announcement provides clarity around the situation and helps ensure that bankruptcy will be avoided.

Shares of automakers are up as a result. The impact on Ford (F 2.90, +0.06) is less noticeable than that of General Motors (GM 4.07, +0.41). Ford reminded investors that it is in a different position than competitors and is not facing a near-term liquidity issue. Ford also stated it is not seeking short-term financial assistance from the government.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
47. Here's the pig without the lipstick.
Originally posted in LBN by Sabra.

DETROIT, Michigan (AFP) — The United Auto Workers union said Friday it would try to reverse "unfair conditions" imposed in a government bailout package when president-elect Barack Obama takes office in January.

(snip)

"We will work with the Obama administration and the new Congress to ensure that these unfair conditions are removed as we join in the coming months with all stakeholders to create a viable future for the US auto industry."

GM and Chrysler, facing a threat of imminent bankruptcy, were offered a 13.4 billion dollar rescue loan which requires tough reforms including more flexible work rules and cuts in wages to make the companies competitive with foreign manufacturers established on US soil.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3652488

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j_TvLIfiu54aJUmWkgOaWG6gjwtg

_________________________________________

And a comment in that thread by SafeInOhio

Dear Creditor

As my work contract that was signed and agreed to has been modified, without my consent, I am now changing my interest rate to that paid by those in Japan. I hope this causes you fewer problems than this situation has caused me.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. Energy down 500%.
Yet nothing.

:freak:
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. end of the day info
Dow 8,579.11 Down 25.88 (0.30%)
Nasdaq 1,564.32 Up 11.95 (0.77%)
S&P 500 887.88 Up 2.60 (0.29%)
10-Yr Bond 2.131% Up 0.057

NYSE Volume 6,945,361,500
Nasdaq Volume 2,746,652,500

4:25 pm : A plan to provide automakers with more than $17 billion helped drive stocks higher, but the bounce proved unsustainable as investors remain cognizant of broader headwinds.

The White House is providing $13.4 billion in TARP funds to automakers as part of an effort to shore up their finances. An additional $4.0 billion will be available in February. Though the funds won't ensure automakers achieve a successful recovery, the announcement does help clear up the market's concern on the matter.

Shares of General Motors (GM 4.49, +0.83) rallied on the news, as did many suppliers dependent on the survival of the big three. Ford (F 2.95, +0.11) also traded higher, though to less of an extent since it is currently not depending on government funds. Ford and GM traded with heavy volume, part of which was induced by the expiration of December options.

The expiration of December options also increased share volume in the broader market. More than 2.4 billion shares were traded on the New York Stock Exchange, most of which came in the early going.

Futures contracts for January crude oil also expired this session, but not before sinking to a new four-year low of $32.40 per barrel. The contracts finished 6.5% lower at $33.87 per barrel. However, February contracts gained 1.5% to settle at $42.31 per barrel. The advance in February crude futures prices came despite continued gains in the U.S. dollar.

The greenback gained 2.3% against a basket of major foreign currencies today. It is up 3.0% over the past two days. That has weighed on metals for two straight sessions. February gold shed 2.7% to settle at $837.40 per ounce, while March silver slipped 2.4% to finish at $10.85 per ounce. Their weakness continues to undermine the materials sector (-1.3%), which was the session's worst performer.

Financials (+0.4%) had a relatively solid performance even though Standard & Poor's lowered the credit ratings of Goldman Sachs (GS 80.73, +0.68), Wells Fargo (WFC 28.70, -0.95), JPMorgan Chase (JPM 30.32, +0.11), and Bank of America (BAC 13.80, -0.16). Traders' reaction to the downgrade was relatively muted given the belief that the credit analysts are essentially late to the game.

Tech (+0.9%) was a relative leader after Oracle (ORCL 17.78, +1.17) and Research In Motion (RIMM 42.83, +4.39) posted in-line earnings results for the latest quarter. Their strength helped the Nasdaq outperform.

In other earnings news, Accenture (ACN 32.21, +1.80) made its way to a new December high after posting better-than-expected results for its latest quarter.

European stocks ended the week lower after a volatile session. The FTSE fell 1.0%, the DAX tumbled 1.3%, and France's CAC closed 0.3% lower.

Russia's MICEX advanced 0.7%, but the RTS tumbled 5.1%.

The MSCI Asia-Pacific Index closed 0.6% lower, while Japan's Nikkei closed 0.9% lower after the Bank of Japan lowered its key policy rate to 0.10% from 0.30%. In Hong Kong, the Hang Seng closed down 2.4%, ending four days of gains. DJ30 -25.88 NASDAQ +11.95 SP500 +2.60 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 1417/2.60 bln/1434 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 1954/2.42 bln/1152
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