Archbishop of Canterbury warns recession Britain must learn lessons from Nazi Germany

[Adsos Letter]

Source: Telegraph UK

Dr Rowan Williams risks causing a new controversy by inviting a comparison between Gordon Brown's response to the economic downturn and the Third Reich.

In an article for The Daily Telegraph, he claims Germany in the 1930s pursued a "principle" that worked consistently but only on the basis that "quite a lot of people that you might have thought mattered as human beings actually didn't".

Dr Williams, the most senior cleric in the Church of England, then appears to draw a parallel between the Nazis and the UK Government's policies for tackling the downturn, which he says fails to take account of the "particular human costs" to the most vulnerable in society.

Last week, the Archbishop admitted it would not be "the end of the world" if the Church's links with the state were severed, as it would no longer have to rely on ministers' approval for changes to canon law.



Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/3885458/Archbishop-of-Canterbury-warns-recession-Britain-must-learn-lessons-from-Nazi-Germany.html

[Waiting For Everyman]

1. So... ? This church guy is saying that people count? but not if it costs?

Is he schizophrenic, or just doing political spin in all directions at once?

[Johnyawl]

2. Or possibly you read it wrong.

[Waiting For Everyman]

3. Oh, you mean the "compassionate conservative" meme. Now I get it.

Same fucking difference.

[italian_progressive]

4. The bishop's article is about Karl Barth, the most important german anti nazi theologist

There is NOTHING pro-nazi in the bishop's article!!!! The title of the Telegraph sounds like pure misinformation :grr:
Karl Barth is the purest and most famous german anti nazi theologist of the 30s. God knows how he wasn't killed.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Barth

(...)

Barmen Declaration

In 1934, as the Protestant Church attempted to come to terms with the Third Reich, Barth was largely responsible for the writing of the Barmen declaration (Ger. Barmer Erklärung) which rejected the influence of Nazism on German Christianity—arguing that the Church's allegiance to the God of Jesus Christ should give it the impetus and resources to resist the influence of other 'lords'—such as the German Führer, Adolf Hitler. Barth mailed this declaration to Hitler personally. This was one of the founding documents of the Confessing Church and Barth was elected a member of its leadership council, the Bruderrat. He was forced to resign from his professorship at the University of Bonn for refusing to swear an oath to Hitler. Barth was praised by U.S. theologian and newspaper writer S. Parkes Cadman in a New York Times article for his refusal to sign the oath of allegiance to Hitler. <7> Barth then returned to his native Switzerland, where he assumed a chair in systematic theology at the University of Basel. In the course of his appointment he was required to answer a routine question asked of all Swiss civil servants, whether he supported the national defense. His answer was, "Yes, especially on the northern border!" (note: that is Germany) In 1938 he wrote a letter to a Czech colleague, Josef Hromádka, in which he declared that soldiers who fought against the Third Reich were serving a Christian cause.

(...)

Here is the archbishop's original article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3885188/Put-aside-your-principles-and-remember-all-you-need-is-love.html

I find it absolutely beautiful.

It is all about freedom from the love for the "principles" (meaning the nazi principles, or "necessary" sacrifices or "necessary" cruelty for a better future) instead of the love for the actual creatures of God here and now.

A very, very beautiful christmas article.

Happy Xmas everybody :-)

[onehandle]

5. Welcome to DU. Few here will get that. They see a religious person referenced and assume...

...that they are wrong and out to infringe on their rights. Or commit the "crime" of putting up a manger scene on public property.

The only religious people that are respected here are screaming extreme leftists.

[italian_progressive]

6. Hi, I was only angry with that newspaper..

..that publishes a progressive article of the archbishop, and in order to neutralize it, write an article that comments it, with a title that makes confusion. And this LAST article becomes the news.

A classic. :banghead:

It was not fault of who posted.

By the way, when you hear some religious chief - namely, the pope - that just before christmas say that "Only God has the right to choose your gender", and I KNOW that it is ONLY for italian internal politic purposes, the general disgust against religion has more than one reason. At least one. :puke:

[No Elephants]

11. IMO, God DOES choose your gender, in the sense that you are born

with your gender, no matter what it may be. People don't choose their gender or their orientation. We are all born what we are.

[Kelvin Mace]

10. I am an atheist

and while I have extreme doubts about organized religion and its danger to society, I am willing to judge Christians on a case by case basis. My wife is Christian, as are most of my friends. Don't ascribe a world view to a vocal minority.

[No Elephants]

12. Thank you. Especially when the vocal part takes the form of condem-

nation, control trips, etc. If you believe the gospels, that is not what Jesus taught.

[fjc]

17. It's true that people here do not respect religious people,

but that just might have something to do with the fact that religious people have largely forfeited the kind of respect that the Bishop apparently wants to use Barth to establish. People like Barth, and especially Bonhoeffer, were exceptions. Christianity, left, right, and center, failed to oppose the Nazi's.

[Odin2005]

7. The TORYgraph making shit up again? Why am I not suprised?

[italian_progressive]

8. I was just missing that point..

:toast: :popcorn: :rofl: :applause:

[Kelvin Mace]

9. Thank you for the clarification

and welcome to DU.

Are you an Italian Progressive in Italy? :)

[italian_progressive]

15. Italian from Italy yes...

:hi: ..and I am really sorry for my prime minister, he is a real fascist jerk and does not represent me :hippie:

[54anickel]

13. Thank you for posting the link to the original article. I love the writings of

Rowan Williams, though I must admit I'm a fairly new admirer. His "Tokens of Trust" was my introduction to his beautiful writings. It was assigned reading for a Systematic Theology course I was in last year. I've recently been enjoying some of his reflections on YouTube.

[Ian David]

14. When a representative of the Catholic "Church" lectures about Nazis, does that mean...

... that their irony circuits are damaged?

[RFKHumphreyObama]

16. The Archbishop of Canterbury isn't Catholic

He's an Anglican from the Church of England -the Church that was formed by Henry VIII against the wishes of the Catholic Church.

[Ian David]

18. Oh. My bad. Thanks. n/t