Texas report: Abuse widespread in polygamist sect

[uppityperson]

Source: AP

Nearly two-thirds of the families living at a polygamist group's ranch — targeted in a high-profile raid last spring — had children who were abused or neglected, Texas child welfare officials said in a report released Tuesday.

The Department of Family and Protective Services concluded there was evidence that 12 girls, ages 12 to 15, were "spiritually" married to adult men in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which runs the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Seven of them had one or more children, the report says.

Another 262 children were listed as neglected because the agency said their parents knew there was sexual abuse in the household but did not move to protect their children from possible abuse.

The report, which summarizes the investigations done on all 439 children at the West Texas ranch, was issued at the request of the Health and Human Services executive commissioner, a gubernatorial appointee who oversees the protective services agency. "We received what we believed was a bona fide abuse/neglect report. We were required by law to investigate," said DFPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins....(more@link)

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD958IDLG0

---

Here is another report on it.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705272588,00.html

Texas CPS releases FLDS report, claims 12 girls married underage

Texas child welfare authorities claim 12 girls from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch are confirmed victims of sexual abuse and neglect because they were married at ages ranging from 12 to 15.

Those are among the conclusions reached in a final investigation into the raid that resulted in hundreds of children from the Utah-based polygamous sect being placed in state protective custody. The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services released its long-anticipated report on the raid on the YFZ Ranch early Tuesday after a public records request by the Deseret News.

"There were 43 girls removed from the ranch from the ages of 12 to 17 — which means that more than one out of every four pubescent girls on the ranch was in an underage marriage," the investigation claims. "262 other children were subjected to neglect because parents failed to remove their child from a situation in which the child would be exposed to sexual abuse committed against another child within their families or households."...(more@link)

[MountainLaurel]

1. News at 11: Water is wet! n/t

[uppityperson]

2. I am glad they did a further investigation.

We shall see if I am off various poster's ignore lists over FLDS stuff.

[LanternWaste]

5. The one time I ever put anyone on ignore was over the FLDS story when it initially broke...

The one time I ever put anyone on ignore was over the FLDS story when it initially broke. When one poster claimed that TX CPS was engaging in "genocide", that was my first (and only) use of the ignore button.

I've since taken that poster off ignore, and look forward to his own unique brand of (how shall I say this politely?...) interpreting events.

:evilgrin:

[MountainLaurel]

6. I have to avoid those threads

Because they give me migraines.

I too am glad they looked into this more deeply. People who have escaped the cult have been talking about this abuse for years. Hell, how long ago did Krakauer's book come out? And yet some people still doubted it. Reminds me of a program I watched recently on Jonestown and how politicians ignored the reports of family members of cultists and ex-members.

[musette_sf]

3. K&R

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. What is the status of the cult now?

Are they still all on the ranch or have they moved some of the people off it?

[LanternWaste]

7. The Texas Supreme Court ruled...

The Texas Supreme Court ruled that CPS must return all of the children a month or two after the initial removal of the children. The court stated, “On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted..."

As far as I know, the majority (if not all) of the children have been returned to the YFZ facility, and there have been no arrests or charges pending.

[uppityperson]

8. A few more article bits from desertnews...

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705271699,00.html
A trial for a woman connected to the hoax call that sparked the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch has been delayed.


Dec 16
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705271025,00.html

As a rural Texas grand jury finished its term without issuing any indictments, more children from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch were dropped from the nation's largest custody case.

Only 19 children remain under court jurisdiction, Texas Child Protective Services confirmed to the Deseret News on Tuesday. Seventeen children were "nonsuited" by a judge in San Angelo last week. It brings the total number of children dropped from court oversight to 420, excluding 26 "disputed minors," whom CPS initially believed were underage but were later proven to be adults.

The reasons for nonsuiting vary, agency officials said, from no evidence of abuse being found to parents taking appropriate steps to prevent abuse. As the case whittles down, some of those still under court jurisdiction may be linked to ongoing criminal probes into underage marriages. Earlier this year, CPS sought to place eight children in foster care. Their parents struck deals with the child welfare agency to keep them home.

"The remaining cases include three cases in which the department has temporary managing conservatorship of one or more children in the family," agency spokesman Patrick Crimmins said. "We are continuing to provide services to these families and to work with the families to address safety concerns. Once services are completed and it is it determined by CPS that the children's safety can be assured, we will move to nonsuit."

Dec 9 http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705269223,00.html

Prosecutors have taken DNA samples from a baby born to a teen from a polygamous sect who had refused to reveal the infant's whereabouts.

The state attorney general's office said investigators took swabs and photos Monday of the baby girl born in mid-June.

The newborn's mother is 17 and a member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church.

Child welfare authorities have been trying to get DNA through court proceedings to identify the father. State officials believe the girl was married to a man in the sect when she was 14.

[shanti]

15. baby cemetery

i saw a documentary about the sect and there was a huge field made into a baby cemetery. so sad...

[zelta gaisma]

9. why is it a "raid" when...

the state goes in to take christian religiously insane peoples kids away but it isn't a raid when they go to a regular john q public's house to take their kids?

and how is it no one noticed these fundamentalist christian extremists earlier? and what the HELL are the parents thinking?! Has anyone else noticed lately the worst parents in the news seem to be the most religious? or as I prefer to call them religiously insane.

[uppityperson]

10. They did notice them earlier.

They did notice them earlier, have been watching FLDS for quite some time. They raided a compound, rather than one family's residence.

[MountainLaurel]

11. Lots of people noticed

But it was only recently that the political will to do something other than turn a blind eye to the group arose.

[Bette Noir]

13. I don't know that you can call the FLDS "fundamentalist Christians."

They call themselves "fundamentalist Mormons," but neither Mormons nor mainstream Christians will claim them.

I certainly wouldn't.

[Judi Lynn]

12. Texas is probably completely gun-shy about taking radical measures in dealing with freakish groups

after that horrendous situation developed in Waco.

It did seem they formally backed away far more quickly from this situation than one would expect.

[pitohui]

14. they're white and dress in frumpy clothes so get a free pass to rape and beat children

the whole thing sickens me

it's like, no shit sherlock, they're raping and beating these kids, what part of 42 broken bones among kids on the compound did they not get?

apparently it's okay as long as god sez so or something

[Judi Lynn]

16. Preposterous! The group's comment on the broken bones was, if I remember, they were ordinary

childhood accidents, or something like that.

In my entire childhood I never knew more than a couple of children who had a broken bone over the entire length of that time. To have this happen 42 times in a small community is NOT easily explained.

Parents weren't doing their jobs if this is considered "normal."

The physical trauma to the children would be only the tip of the iceburg, since so many injuries go by undetected, ever, at the inner level where the child person lives, building his belief in life and in people.

[uppityperson]

17. Makes me wonder about their diet, kids with brittle bones.

And even doing manual labor, I knew only a couple farm kids who broke bones. Makes me wonder about genetics and diet also.

However, I agree with you.

[LisaL]

20. Brittle bone disease is genetic. What does it have to do with

diet?

[pitohui]

22. rickets IS caused by diet, look it up, however the bones were broken by abuse not diet

can we please stop making excuses for child abusers just because they're "religious?"

these kids didn't have brittle bone disease, rickets, or anything else, there was not a shred of evidence of this and no one has ever made such a claim that i've seen, they were beaten, they were put in forced marriages as young teens (raped), they were fucking ABUSED

okay?

wtf is the matter that we can't prosecute maltreatment of children if it's cloaked in bullshit religious malarkey?

they were marrying off 12 to 15 year olds to sick twisted old men and the wives/mothers stood by and let it happen, put all who participated in prison for a very long time but first be sure to sterilize them so that they can't create any more victims when they get out -- as far as i'm concerned every "mother" who loved her child so much she couldn't pick up the fucking phone to file a complaint when her child was raped is just as guilty as the rapists themselves -- i'm fucking tired of the excuses

[LisaL]

25. Where is a shred of evidence broken bones were caused by

abuse?

[Dorian Gray]

60. The evidence

exists in the high percentage of broken bones in that population.

[LisaL]

70. If you think that is the "evidence" you are sadly mistaken.

For one, you need to compare this to the general population. What is the incidence of broken bones in general population compared to FOLDS population? Do tell.

[uppityperson]

69. 41 kids with broken bones, unable to determine why in 11 kids.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11299207

The department also alleged some children experienced physical abuse or neglect. It later said X-rays showed 41 children had previously had broken bones. But the final report says there is no evidence of physical abuse in 388 cases; it was unable to complete or make a determination in another 11 cases.

[LisaL]

71. If department goes into any school and X-rays all the children,

how many of those children had broken bones over the years? Do tell.
That is not even taking into account that some of FLDS children might have brittle bone disease.

[uppityperson]

73. Lazy children risk broken bones, x-rays,info from Children'sHosp, and gen abuse/breaks info

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1751664.stm
Children who do not take enough exercise are in danger of suffering broken bones in later life, according to a study.

Many are failing to build up their skeleton during a vital two-year window before puberty, which is critical to building healthy bones.

Researchers in Canada have found children have the greatest increase in bone mineral after the growth spurt just before puberty.

In girls this tends to be between 10 and 12 and in boys it is from 13 to 15...(more)

A webpage on "Broken Bones: Common Pediatric Lower Extremity Fractures—Part III" for the anatomy/physiology nerds amongst us (lots of x-rays and descriptive data):
http://www.nursingcenter.com/prodev/ce_article.asp?tid=685358


Who gets fractures, and What Type, from Children's Hospital in Seattle, WA:
http://orthopedics.seattlechildrens.org/conditions_treated/fractures.asp

Who gets fractures?

Trauma fractures are very common in children. About half of all boys and a quarter of all girls break a bone sometime during childhood.

Stress and pathologic fractures are much less common. Children usually develop stress fractures as the result of overuse, such as prolonged running or after an increase in activity. ...(more)

Just because abuse is such an issue in the world. To pass on information in general about abuse since we might as well use people's concerns with FLDS to educate them on the bigger issue of child abuse:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/90948.php

Dads break or fracture the bones of their children far more often than moms, and they tend to inflict their abusive rage on infants younger than five months old, according to a study in Child Abuse & Neglect.

The abuse can be horrific. In one study case, a child suffered 31 broken or fractured bones.

Almost 68 percent of the children presented with other abusive injuries, including burns, abrasions, bruises or head trauma.

The study underscores the need to boost efforts to target males for child abuse prevention programs, said Suzanne Starling, a forensic pediatrician for the Child Abuse Program at Children's Hospitals of The King's Daughters. ..(more)

[uppityperson]

26. Diet low in calcium and/or vit D can cause bone issues. Diet does affect the body.

"brittle bone disease" can be genetic. Or rather, genetics can and do affect how your body is, including how solid or brittle your bones are.

Diet can also affect bones. Have you heard nothing about osteoporosis, calcium intake, vit D intake?

[JonQ]

72. A free pass?

They were brought in to court last time. It was dismissed largely because A) the call that started everything was a hoax and B) there wasn't enough evidence to support keeping the kids in state custody.

Everyone, even religious nuts, are entitled to due process. You can't just bust in to someones house and arrest them on the notion that you dislike their religion and "everyone knows they're guilty".

We need to have a fair trial first, then punish them if found guilty (I think there are definitely people in their that should go to jail, but I doubt it's as bad or widespread as some are imagining). What we don't need are the feds sweeping in again, arresting everyone and screwing up any pending case against them with a litany of civil rights abuses, leading to the charges being thrown out.

[superconnected]

18. Yet the kids were returned. Does it die here or do people go to jail for this abuse?

[riderinthestorm]

19. I wonder if any of this cult's defenders will bother to come on this thread with an answer.

Those threads were extremely difficult. Outrageous as it may be, there were more than a few defenders of this cult, it was really disturbing.

Now that the abuse has been substantiated, the obvious question becomes "now what?"

But of course, I'm guessing that those of us who were supportive of TX CPS's removal of the children will be the ones asking it. :(

Crickets from the FLDS defenders.....

[LisaL]

21. Well, did you expect for CPS to come up with the report that

they wrongly removed the children? Seriously?
They've returned all the children, by the way. Most of the cases have been non-suited by now. One child was taken back into custody.
How do these facts jive with this CPS report about wide spread abuse?

[pitohui]

23. would you allow your child to spend one minute alone with one of these people? really? honestly?

the facts are clear that the children were abused, the multiple records of broken bones don't lie, religious brainwashed fuckwits DO lie and cowardly politicos would rather kiss ass to religious fanatics than lift one tiny finger to save the life of one child -- children don't vote!

[LisaL]

24. Broken bones? Please.

Where is the evidence any of the broken bones were caused by abuse?
Apparently some of these kids have brittle bone disease which is a genetic disorder.

[uppityperson]

28. Where is the evidence that some have a genetic disorder that causes fragile bones?

Don't quote me as I only mentioned that as a possibility above. Show proof that "some of these kids have brittle bone disease which is a genetic disorder".

[LisaL]

30. Well usually a proof of wrongdoing is needed, and not the other

way around. Please notice that all the children were returned (once since taken back into custody) and most of the cases were dropped from court. Does that jive with the idea that the bones were broken due to abuse?

[uppityperson]

31. That has nothing to do with the question of "brittle bone disease"

Where is the evidence that some have a genetic disorder that causes fragile bones?

You are one that stated "Apparently some of these kids have brittle bone disease which is a genetic disorder." Show me proof of THAT allegation.

[LisaL]

36. Show me proof bones were broken because of abuse.

You have no problem claiming that, do you?
By the way, I obviously don't have access to the medical information for the children. Ever heard of HIPAA? How do you think I would be able to provide you with this "evidence?" I only go by what the FLDS spokesperson said about some children having brittle bone disease.

[uppityperson]

37. Show me where I claimed that. Show me 1 place, 1 time where I claimed that. One.

You can not because I have not. Quit your accusations and attacks and allegations about me, and quit taking offense at whatever the hell you are taking offense at with me. Show me where I claimed that. "You have no problem claiming that, do you?" Well, yes, I do. Since I haven't. And you can't show me where I claimed that. Can you.


Now, you are getting closer to showing proof of what you say. Show me where the "FLDS spokesperson said about some children having brittle bone disease. " That would show me what you are claiming, or at least where you get that idea from.

[LisaL]

43. You haven't personally claimed bones were broken because

of abuse. Some other posters on this thread claimed or implied that.

[uppityperson]

46. You finally below wrote the lawyer rep FLDS said "brittle bone disease"

It is like pulling teeth, slow and painful, to get you to back up anything or do more than attack.

[mbperrin]

34. 262 cases were not taken to court because the parents agreed to and

completed parenting classes, rape awareness, and other requirements. They also moved their children away from abusive people. No need for court.

The others still under supervision have not (and in most cases refuse) completed any sort of counseling or corrective actions.

There are a dozen men under indictment whose trials begin early next year. Most are facing very long prison sentences.

I can't say that a typical community of any 400 kids would have 60% or more in need of corrective action to stop and prevent future abuse.

Can you?

[uppityperson]

29. good luck getting that one to answer your question.

Now, where is gandalf?

[riderinthestorm]

33. I don't know your past experiences with CPS

but I'm truly sorry that whatever happened to you has warped your ability to think rationally about child protective services.

In my experience, these are selfless social workers and child advocates who work for very little money or recognition. They have nothing to gain by fabricating evidence and/or putting their agency into jeopardy with false reports.

As for the legal issues surrounding the FLDS case, the monstrous nature of the crimes and the vast scope and size of the abuse ensured that legal mistakes would be made. Regardless of legal technicality issues that definitely plagued this situation, my primary concern is/has been/will be to ensure battered and abused women and children find safety and justice.

What's hardest for me is contemplating how much more difficult it becomes for any of these women and children to ever escape now... after the media circus etc. Alas.

It's too bad that you remain blinded (imho) to the real and substantive problems going on within this community. Reading your delusional posts that the children "must" and "obviously" suffer from brittle bone disease instead of acknowledging the obvious is pathetic. Go ahead and alert on me. I have to say it anyway. Honestly, I feel sorry for you.

[uppityperson]

27. One is here.

[riderinthestorm]

32. Heh. I just got back on and saw that...

and "of course" these kids MUST have a genetic disorder on the order of brittle bone disease (instead of the more obvious explanation that they are abused). :eyes:

[LisaL]

35. Oh that's ridiculous.

No one has been charged with breaking any child's bones.
Again, the claims that bones have been broken by abuse have not a shred of evidence behind them.

[mbperrin]

38. Here are the actual charges against the 12:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11247079

Those indicted so far and their charges they face:
» Warren S. Jeffs, 53, aggravated sexual assault; sexual assault of a minor; bigamy.
» Lloyd H. Barlow, 38, failure to report child abuse.
» Keith William Dutson, 23, sexual assault of a minor.
» Michael George Emack, 57, bigamy.
» Allan Eugene Keate, 56, sexual assault of a minor.
» Abram Harker Jeffs, 37, bigamy; sexual assault of a minor.
» Lehi Barlow Jeffs, 29, bigamy; sexual assault of a minor.
» Fredrick Merril Jessop, 72, conducting an unlawful marriage.
» Merril Leroy Jessop, 33, sexual assault of a minor; bigamy.
» Raymond Merril Jessop, 36, sexual assault of a minor; bigamy.
» Wendell Loy Nielsen, 68, bigamy.
» Leroy Johnson Steed, 42, sexual assault of a minor; two counts of bigamy; tampering with evidence.

[uppityperson]

39. Oh lizzy, it isn't "evidence" that breaks bones.

[LisaL]

40. Regarding broken bones.

Do take a look at the report:
Physical abuse allegations, 388 (ruled out), 2 (Unable to determine), 9 (unable to complete)
and 0 (reason to believe). So CPS admits it found no evidence of physical abuse, and in fact ruled it out in a vast majority of allegations.

[uppityperson]

41. Regarding your accusations.

" Show me proof bones were broken because of abuse.
Edited on Tue Dec-23-08 08:25 PM by lizzy
You have no problem claiming that, do you?"


Do look at the forum:
Claims uppityperson has made that bones were broken because of abuse:0
Claims lizzy had made that uppityperson has no problems claiming that:1
Explanation of where FLDS kids have "brittle bone disease" came from, by lizzy:0

So, you make false accusations, never say you were wrong, and do not provide anything to back up your allegations ("brittle bone disease").



Finally, regarding broken bones. You write "So CPS admits it found no evidence of physical abuse, and in fact ruled it out in a vast majority of allegations. " That leads, logically and if in fact true, to the further fact that it wasn't ruled out in all the allegation, just "vast majority".

Again, proof for that allegation is....where?

[LisaL]

42. CPS has ZERO reasons to believe there was physical abuse.

In 388 cases it was ruled out. In 2 cases CPS was unable to complete, and in 9 cases CPS was unable to determine. So, what exactly does it tell you? Do the math. Any way I do the math, it still amounts to CPS having no evidence of physical abuse.

As for brittle bone disease:
"Parker said some of the families involved told investigators early on they suffer from brittle bone disease. He also said the FLDS members do have their own health clinic on the compound. Two children had broken bones when they were removed, and one little girl broke a bone while in custody."


http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3196825

[mbperrin]

44. Yes, the doctor is one of those indicted for failure to report.

Upon conviction, he will lose his license to practice.

[LisaL]

45. Parker is a lawyer, not a doctor.

[mbperrin]

49. Who's Parker? The doctor is one of those indicted.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/30/medical-board-may-eye-doctor/

If convicted, a polygamist sect's doctor charged with failure to report child abuse may face restrictions on his ability to practice medicine in Texas, according to the state medical board.

Dr. Lloyd H. Barlow, 38, was arrested Monday in Schleicher County and charged with three counts of failure to report child abuse. Each count is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $2,000 and up to 180 days in jail.

Barlow could not be reached Tuesday for comment.

[uppityperson]

50. So the doc who says "brittle bone disease" is indicted for not protecting kids.

That doesn't make me feel any more positive about the lawyer saying the doctor said the kids have "brittle bone disease".

[uppityperson]

47. In 2 cases CPS was unable to complete, and in 9 cases CPS was unable to determine.

That tells me there are 11 in which they could not tell. That is the math.

Thank you for finally showing where you got the "brittle bone disease" thing. From your next post below, however, you point out that Parker is a lawyer, not a doctor. So, now we have a person representing the FLDS saying that, with no proof from him. And no, don't snark have you never heard of HIPPA since yes, as a health care provider, and a health care provider who has reported child abuse, I have.

I don't believe a diagnoses of any sort unless it comes from a reputable health care provider.

[LisaL]

48. CPS admits it has zero evidence of physical abuse.

As for 11 cases where they just "couldn't tell"-try going to court with that. Basically CPS spend millions to take all the children, separate most of them from their parents, only to return all of them back (one was later taken back into custody) and drop most cases from court.
I don't know about you, as for me, I don't consider this money well spend.

[uppityperson]

51. There can be abuse but not enough evidence to take it to court.

If you do not believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Crimes are committed every day, and there is not enough evidence found to take them to court.

You again throw out a straw man. Don't you get tired of that?

[LisaL]

52. Well, there also could be no evidence because there was no

abuse. What, that possibility just doesn't occur to you?
:eyes:

[uppityperson]

54. No, you never get tired, as evidenced by behavior.

Just like I always say those broken bones are due to abuse, I just don't think of things like maybe it wasn't abuse, and maybe I just don't know about HIPPA either and of course the issue is I think it was a good use of money. Straw. Man.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[uppityperson]

56. Patience, grasshopper

2 now. All we need is gandalf.

[WolverineDG]

53. But how come they've dismissed all the cases

& closed all the investigations on all but 14 children if the abuse is so widespread?

Not that that matters, of course.

dg

[uppityperson]

55. Merry Christmas! I am not privy to inside info, just posting articles.

Maybe you should ask them yourself? Hope you have a merry christmas or happy holiday of your choice. And may next yr be a better one for the world.

[WolverineDG]

59. If all you're posting is what CPS is spouting

then all you know is, well, BS. Funny that you're not posting the analysis of the report by Brooke Adams. You already said she doesn't know what she's talking about & she actually knows many in the FLDS, following this & many other stories from the beginning, so I'd think you'd find her a more credible source than CPS.

dg

[uppityperson]

67. I am posting articles as I find them. You are welcome to do so also.

If you want to post a story by Brooke Adams, whomever that is, well then, go ahead. My source for the article is desertnews. I am sorry you don't find them credible as a source. What news place would you recommend for a reputable source?

I would be the first to admit that living where I do, I do not have personal access into this affair. As I said in the reply you are telling me I know "BS", I am not privy to inside info.

I don't recall saying anything about Brooke Adams, haven't mentioned her in this thread.

Edited to add, I did a search and found an article by Brooke Adams, looks like is a writer for the Salt Lake Tribune. Is the SLT more reputable than desertnews?

Here is the most recent article I could find, and it seems to be saying there was abuse, unable to make a determination of physical abuse in 11 cases, 41 kids had broken bones, 12 confirmed victims of sexual abuse. It also seems to be saying the "executive director of the Virginia-based National Coalition for Child Protection Reform" says "The act of tearing these children from everyone they know and love was abusive in itself."

So, there you go. You complained I didn't post "the analysis of the report by Brooke Adams", this is what I found. Is this what you meant?

12/23/08
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11299207

But between April and August, using interviews with parents and children and documents seized from the ranch, investigators determined 12 girls were between the ages of 12 and 15 when they were spiritually married. The report says two were 12 when they married; three were 13; two were 14 and five were 15. Those girls are now ages 14 to 18; seven have one or more children. The report says the marriages took place between 2004 and July 2006.

"The 12 confirmed victims of sexual abuse were among 43 girls removed from the ranch from the ages of 12 to 17, which means that more than one out of every four pubescent girls on the ranch was in an underage marriage," the report states.

It was this information that led CPS to require parents of girls ages 10 to 17 to sign safety plans aimed at protecting their children from sexual abuse. The plans placed limits on who could visit their homes and barred contact with men -- including the girls' fathers -- who participated in or sanctioned underage marriage.

A Schleicher County grand jury has indicted 12 men so far on charges including sexual assault of a child, aggravated sexual assault, tampering with evidence, bigamy, conducting an illegal marriage and failure to report abuse.

(clip)

One child welfare critic who followed the YFZ Ranch case on Tuesday called the report "self-justifying claptrap."

(clip)

The final report also says that DNA test results confirmed mother-child relationships with the exception of "several children who were believed to be the children of a deceased mother." ..(more)

[WolverineDG]

74. Of course you ignored this by Ms. Adams

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/2008/12/sifting-through-report.htm

dg

[uppityperson]

75. Why assume I "ignored this". I didn't see it. As I said, you can post also.

Thank you for posting this as I hadn't seen it. You complained I didn't post "the analysis of the report by Brooke Adams". Is this what you meant?

I am not deeply researching or focusing lots of attention on searching out everything I can post. Thank you for posting some links rather than just complaining that I am not. Your assumptions and accusations about me are a bit off, though.

Edited to fix missing end of quote thingy.

Girls told investigators that no age was too young for marriage and that ''the Prophet'' determined when and who a girl should marry.
As I recall, just one girl made that statement. While it may be true that one in four girls between the ages of 12 and 17 were married, it is equally true that three out of every four girls that age were not married.

So, she recalls 1 girl made that statement, not "girls". And does having only 25% of girls aged 12-17 be married is...ok? Since 75% of them aren't?

For the Department of Family and Protective Services, the Yearning for Zion case is about sexual abuse of girls and children who were taught that underage marriages are a way of life.
See above.

It seems that underage marriages are a way of life there. Not for everyone, but accepted for 25% of girls 12-17 yrs old. Is she, are you, now saying that there is no sex in those marriages until they are not minors? Or that it is not sexual abuse?

I agree that there was a lot of confusion about who was whom and how old each person was and what the relationships were between everyone. I also agree that it seems the initial call in this case was a hoax call.

[mbperrin]

57. Of course, as an attorney, you are aware that those cases are dismissed

after remediation was completed by the parent or parents of those children. They weren't simply thrown out with no action beforehand.

And even if there were only 14, you're willing to say 14 kids just don't make a damn in the world, right?

[WolverineDG]

58. Wrongo!

They were dismissed out of hand, beginning the week after the children were returned in June, before the "parenting classes" were even structured. And no, the 14 children still under CPS' claws don't justify the forcible removal of over 400 others.

dg

[mbperrin]

61. Well, Merry Christmas to the 14 nobodies.

How many till they count? 15? 140? 6 million?

Just curious. As a progressive, I believe every person counts, and especially the helpless: children, disabled, elderly.

Who do you think counts? Except for the obvious horny old men, of course....

[WolverineDG]

64. If CPS had followed the Constitutions of Texas & the US,

the Texas Family code AND its own operating manual, I wouldn't have a problem. But they didn't. And they're still not.

Sorry, but in my book, "progressive" doesn't mean "we can ignore the Constitution & laws whenever we want to so we can go after people we don't like."

dg

[mbperrin]

62. Of course, even Brooke Adams says you're wrong about that!

Check the date on the story - it's well past June.


http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy1051.html
More cases against FLDS dismissed

The Salt Lake Tribune/October 16, 2008

By Brooke Adams

Texas officials dismissed child welfare cases involving 29 children from a polygamous sect on Wednesday, the largest number dropped in a single day from the state's massive investigation.

The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services has steadily nonsuited cases since June, when 439 children were returned to their parents after two months in state custody.

The cases are closed after officials determine the children are safe or have turned 18, according to Patrick Crimmins, DFPS spokesman.

To date, the state has ended cases of 338 children from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That leaves cases involving 101 children still pending. Among them: A 14-year-old girl who was returned to foster care in August after her mother failed to give a Texas judge assurances she would keep the girl safe.

The state took custody of the children in April after raiding the sect's Yearning For Zion Ranch because of allegations of sexual and physical abuse.

The call that initiated the raid is now believed a hoax, but investigators said they found evidence of abuse that warranted the children's removal.

Last week, the state said it has asked that 63 FLDS girls between the ages of 10 and 17 complete individual counseling sessions designed to educate them about sexual abuse and marriage laws.

A grand jury in Schleicher County has indicted nine FLDS men on charges related to underage marriages; some also face bigamy allegations. The grand jury will meet again in November.





Well?

[WolverineDG]

63. Nope, the first ones started being dismissed in June nt

[mbperrin]

65. Not the same as all being dismissed out of hand in June, is it?

Ah well,



Apres Moi, le deluge.



Right? And a good day to you.

[WolverineDG]

66. Dismissed nt

[uppityperson]

68. I found a 12/23/08 article by Brooke Adams, posted it here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3657253&mesg_id=3659024

All I can see is the same info as I put in OP.