EU presidency: Israel ground op in Gaza 'defensive not offensive'

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Haaretz Service and Reuters

PRAGUE - European Union president, the Czech Republic, said Saturday an Israeli ground offensive in Gaza was "defensive, not offensive" action.

"At the moment, from the perspective of the last days, we understand this step as a defensive, not offensive, action," Czech EU presidency spokesman Jiri Potuznik said.

Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg is leading an EU delegation to the region Sunday, and Potuznik said the presidency will wait to see the results of that visit.

Israel sent troops into Gaza on Saturday evening, eight days after launching air strikes on the coastal strip, which came in the wake of a breakdown in a six-month truce with Gaza's Hamas rulers.

Read more: http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052315.html

[peacebird]

1. the czech republic obviously doesn't realize gwb has less three weeks to reign...

hence they parrot his stance - down is up, black is white, war is peace...

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. They're the most RW EU presidency we've had for some time

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/01/czech-republic-eu-persidency-helm

They are even climate change sceptics.

[peacebird]

4. off topic - interesting name Muriel_volestrangler.... Those voracious little beasts destroyed

my gardens for the last two years....

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. I stole it from John Cleese

who stole it from a BBC radio comedy:

http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Wing-commander-Muriel-Volestrangler-F-R-H-S/dp/0413567907

Dame Celia Molestrangler in 'Round the Horne'

I suspect that moles are the blighters playing havoc with your garden, not voles, which are generally harmless creatures (unless you're an insect), and don't actually deserve to be strangled at all.

[FarCenter]

2. A slightly different slant on the Czech EU Presidency position

EU voices

The Czech EU presidency said on Saturday that it was not surprised at Israel's launching of ground operations, but added that the country does not have the right to take military actions "which largely effect civilians."

A statement by Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg, whose country's now holds the EU presidency, read, "Launching land operations by the Israeli forces in the Gaza Strip is not surprising, there were indications that Israel had been considering this step."

"But even the indisputable right of the state to defend itself does not allow actions which largely affect civilians," he stressed.

France, for its part, condemned Israel's move Saturday as well as continued Hamas rocket attacks and urged both Israel and the Palestinian group to accept ceasefire proposals.

"France condemns the Israeli ground offensive against Gaza as it condemns the continuation of rocket firing," the French Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

http://www.dw-world.de/

[Kingofalldems]

8. Oops! --OP doesn't jibe with what you posted

Looks like someone has an agenda. (Not you BTW)

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. Ooops! Deutch-Welle corrected their story and it now matches the OP:

After Israeli tanks entered Gaza, a spokesman for Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek told reporters "at the moment from our perspective we do understand that the action is part of the defensive action of Israel (...) we do understand that it is more defensive than offensive."

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3919196,00.html

Now who has an agenda?

[Kingofalldems]

18. This poster has a total of 2 posts on this subject

You, on the other hand, are all over it. I know who has the agenda.

[FarCenter]

23. See further clarification of the Czech position

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x237608

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. The DW story now reads more like the Haaretz one

Europe Split Over Gaza Ground Operation

After Israeli tanks entered Gaza, a spokesman for Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek told reporters "at the moment from our perspective we do understand that the action is part of the defensive action of Israel (...) we do understand that it is more defensive than offensive."

Saeb Erekat, aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, responded harshly to the European position expressed by the Czech Republik.

"This is a vicious aggression against our people. The international community cannot stand silent ... This position (by the European Union's Czech presidency) deserves condemnation," he told Al Arabiya television.

The conflicting statements suggested disunity among European partners ahead of separate visits to the region by French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday and an EU delegation led by Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3919196,00.html

And:

EU calls for protection of civilians in Gaza

Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg, speaking on behalf of the Czech European Union Presidency, officially called on Israel to protect civilian life during its incursion into Gaza.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0,,12215_cid_3919186,00.html

[Ghost Dog]

19. So the other big story there would be: "Europe Split".

As expected.

M. Sarkozy is a natural, isn't he. Although far to the right of me, I consider him the best possible candidate by miles to become, eventually, fixed 'President of the European Union'. Certainly much to be preferred over Mr. BLiar, who, BTW, appears to have completely reneged on his so-called job as 'Envoy to the Middle East'. BLiar should be made to repay all the salary and expenses he has been paid so far in that post, since he simply has not even attempted to do the job. Then lock him up at least in a monastery.

[ixion]

5. what a load of crap

it is most obviously offensive, as is the audacity to suggest it is anything other.

[The Stranger]

7. It doesn't matter if the EU President, Vice President, or Mother Theresa herself calls it "defensive

-- we still know it is not defensive, it is still a moral crime to blockade civilians from medicine, water, and food, and it is a moral crime to bomb civilian areas.

It doesn't matter who you can get to say otherwise, Mr. Stubbs. What is wrong is wrong, and will always be wrong. You're wasting your time.

[totodeinhere]

9. Who is we?

You do not speak for me. Thank you.

[harmonicon]

11. I assumed that "we" equaled "those capable of reason" in the post above

[totodeinhere]

12. Isn't presumptuous to assume that only those who agree with you...

are "those capable of reason?"

[harmonicon]

13. I wasn't going off of just what I agree with - some differences, I have no problem with

I don't think it's presumptuous, however, to say that reasonable people know that wars of aggression and the bombing of civilians are not defensive acts. I think that's just common sense. It is an argument that tyrants have made throughout history, and it's always been a lie.

[orleans]

20. so...

you really don't think "it is still a moral crime to blockade civilians from medicine, water, and food, and it is a moral crime to bomb civilian areas." you actually consider doing this shit "defensive?"

are you fucking kidding?

[totodeinhere]

21. A moral crime is being committed by Hamas.

I notice that you didn't mention the missiles that Hamas is raining down on Israel. Isn't firing missiles at innocent civilians in Israel also a moral crime?

But hey, any war is a moral crime. Was it a moral crime to bomb the civilians in Dresden? Was dropping the atom bomb on Japan a moral crime? When Bill Clinton authorized bombing civilians in Belgrade, wasn't that a moral crime?

But yet war is human nature. It has always existed and it always will. Israel has been forced to take these unfortunate measures as a matter of self survival, just like Truman bombed Japan to save a multitude of American lives that would have been lost in an invasion of Japan. Yes, war is hell. But I for one am not a pacifist, and neither is Barack Obama.

[The Stranger]

32. So you admit that what Israel is doing is a moral crime.

Well done. WE thank you.

[WriteDown]

25. If its a moral crime, what is the problem?

Wouldn't it be much worse if it was an immoral crime? :eyes:

[JerseygirlCT]

27. Well, I don't know - it might be pretty newsworthy

if Mother Teresa has something to say on the situation...

[leftynyc]

33. Speak for yourself

I don't know any such thing as I'm not there and don't trust any media to get it right. I know two things - Hamas sucks and the Israeli army tends to kill a fly with a sledgehammer.

[Kingofalldems]

10. Isn't that what Bush claimed about the Iraq war?

:shrug: :shrug:

[Doctor_J]

14. Yes, this is a carbon copy of Operation Iraqi Liberation

basically word-for-word justification

[bemildred]

16. "War is peace, Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." -- Orwell nt

[StudsT]

22. my first thought, too

and so it goes...

StudsT

[kitty1]

24. Against the agreement of the CF, Israel refused to allow fuel,food.....

and other shipments of necessities to the Palestinians. The tight border restrictions weren't lifted as agreed to beforehand either. There were also supposed to be prisoner exchanges that didn't go thru for either side.
Apparently this is the reason that Hamas resumed air strikes against Israel.
I'm not saying that that tactic would have been the best way to resolve issues with Israel, but people will employ desperate measures if they feel they aren't being treated fairly and become desperate.
We don't know the whole story here I'm sure. There are different agendas at play on both sides that are contributing to this policital mess.
What I don't understand is if Israel has nothing to hide, why did they not allow the international media to come in and interview the Palestinians and Hamas. Were they afraid of bias because of the devastation put on the Palestinian people.

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. He's an idiot and the Czech govt has already told him to shut up.

The European Union's new figurehead believes that climate change is a dangerous myth and has compared the union to a Communist state.

The views of President Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic, 67, have left the government of Mirek Topolanek, his bitter opponent, determined to keep him as far away as possible from the EU presidency, which it took over from France yesterday.

The Czech president, who caused a diplomatic incident by dining with opponents of the EU’s Lisbon treaty on a recent visit to Ireland, has a largely ceremonial role.

But there are already fears that, after the dynamic EU presidency of Nicolas Sarkozy - including his hyper-active attempts at international diplomacy over the credit crisis and Georgia as well as an historic agreement to cut greenhouse gases - the Czech effort will be mired in infighting and overshadowed by the platform it will give to Mr Klaus and his controversial views.


He is undeniably popular with Czech voters, having been Prime Minister from 1992-97, overseeing the harmonious break-up with Slovakia, and president since 2003. An economist who spent much of his working life at the Czechoslovak State Bank during the Iron Curtain years, he became active in politics as a champion of free market economics after 1989 and is said to keep a photo of Lady Thatcher, who he greatly admires, on his desk.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/arti...

[BelgianMadCow]

28. this EU presidency does NOT represent EU opinion at ALL

in this case, as illustrated here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3670848&mesg_id=3670848

Damn I wish we europeans would speak with one voice :-(

[BelgianMadCow]

29. An EU diplomatic mission is dispatched to achieve a cease-fire.

and the mission includes the Czech diplomacy chief Karel Schwarzenberger.

http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2009/01/04/les-soldats-israeliens-affrontent-le-hamas-a-gaza_1137719_3218.html#ens_id=1106055

pardon my french :-)

[bemildred]

30. Czech EU spokesman sorry for calling Israeli action 'defensive'

BRUSSELS (AFP) — A spokesman for the new Czech EU presidency on Sunday apologised after describing Israel's ground assault in Gaza as "more defensive than offensive."

The apology came after Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg described the original comments as "a very serious mistake" but sought to draw a line under the affair.

Jiri Frantisek Potuznik, Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek's EU presidency spokesman, issued a statement that was published on the website of the Czech presidency of the EU.

"I would like to apologise for the misunderstanding which occurred on January 3, 2009 about the reaction of the Czech Presidency to the actions of the Israeli ground forces in the Gaza Strip according to which the operations were seen as an act of self-defence," he wrote of his comments the day before.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gwcYX4aJd0yFDF_Z3d83Im5hLA2Q

[roamer65]

31. The EU should not allow countries to ascend to the presidency...

unless they are Eurozone members. A Eurozone member is an EU country that has gone through ERM2 and now uses the Euro currency. The Czech Republic is NOT a Eurozone country.