Violence In Gaza Sparks More L.A. Demonstrations

[Joanne98]

Source: CBS


More Gaza protests are planned Sunday throughout the Southland and around the country.

L.A. Jews for Peace plan to rally outside of the Federal Building at Wilshire Boulevard and Veteran Avenue starting at 2 p.m.

Similar demonstrations will take place in Anaheim and San Diego, but are sponsored by The ANSWER Coalition. Both are set up for 1 p.m. Demonstrators will gather in Anaheim at 512 S. Brookhurst St. and in San Diego at the fountain in Balboa Park, 1549 El Prado.

Since the end of a cease fire in Gaza last month, both sides have accused the other of relentless missile attacks. The latest demonstrations are part of a series of Southland protests favoring both sides of the ongoing dispute.


Read more: http://cbs2.com/local/demonstrators.Israeli.Palestinian.2.899687.html

[JDPriestly]

1. Hamas is an extreme right-wing movement of religious fanatics.

I do not understand why so many DUers are so supportive of it. The killings are horrible, but critics of Israel should be realistic. If we had to deal with violent extremists next to our borders -- whose constitution vowed to destroy our country -- I think we would take matters in our own hands at the slightest provocation.

A couple of months ago, I met a young woman from Israel. She was completely traumatized by the violence. I told her that having grown up in a quite midwestern rural area, I just could not understand, I could not fathom (that is emotionally understand) the concept of terrorism or of living in constant fear of it.

Fatah appears to be willing to negotiate in at least some good faith with Israel to make the area livable for all in it. Hamas does everything it can to destroy peace and to weaken those in the area who want peace. As repulsive as violence is, I understand why Israel is attacking fanatics who want to destroy it. This is a life or death matter for Israel and Israelis. Hamas does nothing to contribute to a peaceful coexistence among Israel and its neighbors.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Oh please! You are only getting Israel's (MSM) side of the story

People in Gaza were the survivors of the 1948 Naqba, the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinians by Israel. Palestinians still have the keys to the homes they were forced to flee, just as many Sephardic Jews still keep the keys of homes they had to flee when the Moors were kicked out of Spain. Google it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO7LM5BPWok

[WriteDown]

7. Ethnic cleansing you say?

Doesn't seem like they did too good a job then. :eyes: Wonder how that 2 state solution looks like now.

[StudsT]

27. look how long it took with american indians... and there are MILLIONS of palestinians

fyi

StudsT

[WriteDown]

37. Trust me..

I'm well aware. The Palestinian population has actually seen an increase though.

[JDPriestly]

33. You would be surprised at the people in various parts of the world

who still have the keys, so to speak, to the homes in which they lived before this or that war.

Neither Palestine nor Israel existed as legal entities in modern times until after WWII. The British beat Turkey (which was then called the Ottoman Empire) in WWI and placed the area under a British Protectorate. The spiritual leader of the Muslims in Palestine sided with Hitler in WWII.

The Jewish people had started a movement to settle in Israel during or before the end of the 19th Century. It was their Biblical homeland, and they had been persecuted and murdered and pretty much chased away, ethnically cleansed to use your language, from every other place they had gone in the world for utterly no reason other than that they had a different religion and culture.

When, after WWII, the allies did not know what to do with about a million Jews who had survived the prison camps and had been sitting in those same camps for a year with no place to go, they finally agreed to let the Israelis have a portion of what was at the time a British protectorate in which Jews, Muslims and Christians were living under the rule of the British Empire.

Israel was one of many compromises made to attain peace after the horror of WWII. The founding of Israel was, from the point of view of the Allies, a way to solve what they euphemistically called "the Jewish problem." The Jewish people liked it, trusted the United Nations to support them, finally, by giving them one safe refuge in the world. There are many primarily Christian nations. There are many primarily Muslim nations. There are many primarily Buddhist nations, etc. There is one primarily (but not entirely) Jewish nation. Let it be.

[EFerrari]

4. If you can say "the killings are horrible, but", you might consider

you have been thoroughly propagandized.

There is no need to kill hundreds of Palestinians and wound many hundreds more or to keep them cold, hungry, thirsty and without medical care in order to resolve this situation.

[WriteDown]

8. I must be suceptible as well..

I could have sword there was once a two state solution.

[EFerrari]

9. Yes, you must be if you can abstract the deaths of so many

into a plan that isn't working.

[WriteDown]

11. Don't you mean....

a plan that was never tried or accepted by one side? And what the heck happened to Trans-Jordan?

[EFerrari]

12. No, I don't mean that.

[WriteDown]

14. Odd...

May want to read up on the two state solution that was originally proposed. And what about Trans-Jordan?

[EFerrari]

16. The "two state solution" was never first proposed. It was called "partition"

and it wasn't up for negotiation.

[WriteDown]

17. It has been called many things, but has been on the table

many times. Don't forget about Transjordan.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

21. Nobody EVER believed the "Jordan is the Palestinian state" canard.

Even Israeli rightists don't try to sell that one anymore.

[WriteDown]

23. Not Jordan....

Transjordan. You may know it by its modern day name. Gaza.

[Ken Burch]

25. Actually, Transjordan was the name of the eastern portion of the British Mandate

here's a map link, from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BritishMandatePalestine1920.png

[WriteDown]

30. Yep....

And they had the West Bank too. Strange, but there were never any calls in the Arab world at that time calling for Paslestinian independence of the plight of the Paslestinian people. That didn't start until after 1967.

[Ken Burch]

32. I can't understand why, if you're Native American you would possibly

take the Israeli government side on this. It's the Palestinians who were the equivalent of the Native Americans. If you're backing the IDF, you're backing the cowboys.

[WriteDown]

35. Not necessarily.....

Its not like we were offered 1/2 the country and turned it down. Its not also like we ganged up with Great Britain, France, and Russia and attacked the US multiple times.

[Igel]

29. Huh?

Transjordan is the territory "across", trans, the Jordan. We call that Jordan now; it's from the British perspective.

The "opposite" of Transjordan is Cisjordan, where "cis" means "on this side". That's the West Bank, if we want to view it writ small, or from the Jordan to the sea, if we want it writ large. But still, I think, not including Gaza.

[WriteDown]

36. I'll have to check the maps...

My point is that a lot of the territory occupied by Palestinians was covered by that.

[Joanne98]

6. I grew up on the border of Mexico and then lived 20 years in Los Angeles

Trauma was a part of my everyday life. (but not as bad as my republican mother)

There needs to be more balance in this world.

[stillcool]

10. Oh please...everyone that disagrees...

with what the U.S. or Israel does is a 'fanatic', or a 'terrorist'. Now if you want to see a leftist view of the situation, this is a great site:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelWatch.html

[Ken Burch]

20. It's not about being "supportive" of Hamas.

It's about being against this insane attack on a largely civilian population.

And if you don't like Hamas, you shouldn't be backing this war, because it's giving Hamas renewed popularity with Hamas was in the process of dying out. The IDF slaughter campaign HURTS Fatah.

[virginia mountainman]

2. One question??

What cease fire? The "Cease fire" they seem to refer too seemed ONLY to apply to Israel

[EFerrari]

5. Where did you get that idea?

[chaz4jazz]

13. Hipocricy 101

Hypocrisy 101: Yesterday, a female suicide bomber killed upwards of forty-five Muslim women pilgrims at a shrine in Iraq. More hundreds died all over Africa from starvation and brutality in Zimbabwe, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Darfur, Somalia and more. Taliban zealots routinely murder female children for having the audacity to go to school and adult women for not dressing sufficiently modestly. I look in vain for demonstrations in any part of the world against these ongoing and horrific human rights violations.

From 2005 to 2008, Hamas regularly bombarded Israel with rockets aimed in the general direction of populated areas. Somehow, I seem to have missed the outrage and frustration the world must have shown at these criminal acts. Or, heaven forefend, is there a double standard? Does it matter who is on which end of the weapon that makes the difference?

No one seems to get excited when Muslims are holding the guns but go ballistic when it is a Jew. Jews with guns; not something the world is yet accustomed to. After all, for almost two millennia, it was open season on Jews anywhere in the world. Beginning in 1948, however, for the first time since the year 70 CE, there was and continues to be, a Jewish Army which has no qualms about defending its people. That is only as it should be.

Imagine, if you will, a breakdown in governmental authority in Mexico. Imagine further a breakaway rebel group that refuses to answer to the central authorities in Mexico City and lobs rockets into Arizona. How might the U.S. respond? Very angrily, exactly as we did in 1912 when Pancho Villa attacked Columbus, New Mexico and we sent an army into Mexico after him.

No cries for proportionality then, were they? We sent an army after a guerilla band. Now, we are told that Israel is reacting disproportionally by using airplanes and armor against guerillas and rockets. Grow up people, this is not a sporting match where one tries to match weights and create a level playing field. It is a war where one uses every tool at hand to do the job. Insisting on proportionality is to give the weaker party the choice of weapons and to define the size of the force. How more stupid could a doctrine be? If you must go to war – not a first choice – then you do so to win, not to play games for the soothing of world opinion, a notorious whore, for sale to the highest bidder.

To quote the late Golda Meir: "this war will end when they love their children more than they hate us."

[Name removed]

15. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[abq e streeter]

19. don't you realize that if not for israel, the Arab world would be an idyllic

paradise, with all of them holding hands and singing kumbayah together? (never could get the sarcasm icon to work). takes a lot of guts as a leftist these days to point out the facts you've bravely pointed out.

[Ken Burch]

22. Nobody ever said the Arab world would be utopia if it weren't for Israel

And those who oppose the IDF slaughter campaign in Gaza aren't even necessarily AGAINST Israel.

I favor Israel's right to exist within the pre-1967 boundaries. That's all that state needs. Nothing beyond those boundaries is worth war.

[WriteDown]

24. I favor the US's right to exist within the pre-1492

boundaries. That's all that country needs. It would sure help my people.

[Ken Burch]

26. I agree that Native Americans had the continent stolen from them

I'm not sure, however, what point you're trying to make in THIS particular thread.

[WriteDown]

28. My point is that it is impossible to decide what a peope NEED...

If you are that concerned then I suggest you fly back to Great Britain immediately White Eyes :).

[Ken Burch]

31. Why the hostility? I'm in solidarity with Native Americans on the way they've been treated.

n/t.

[WriteDown]

34. No hostility....

that's why the smilie face. I'm just saying that even as an Akwesasne, I can understand that things will never be the way they were. Besides, we chose the wrong side in that little war in the 1700's.