Castro says he doubts he'll be lucid in 4 years

[WriteDown]

Source: AP

HAVANA (AP) — Fidel Castro suggested Thursday that his health is failing, saying that four years from now he doesn't expect to be following current events. In an online column titled "Reflections of Comrade Fidel," the 82-year-old Cuban leader appeared to be pondering his own mortality, saying Cuban officials "shouldn't feel bound by my occasional Reflections, my state of health or my death."

"I have had the rare privilege of observing events over such a long time. I receive information and meditate calmly on those events," he wrote. "I expect I won't enjoy that privilege in four years, when Obama's first presidential term has ended."

He didn't elaborate, but suggested he was stepping out of government affairs, writing: "I have reduced the Reflections as I had planned this year, so I won't interfere or get in the way of the (Communist) Party or government comrades in the constant decisions they must make."

The bulk of the column was devoted to praising Obama, in part for his decision to close the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, recalling his thoughts Tuesday as he watched Obama assume the "leadership of the empire."....

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ghGthxqnYMWcICCnEkjH5ayqPamQD95SHVBG0

---

I doubt he's lucid (or alive) now. Another written statement.

[sandrakae]

1. So.

[baldguy]

2. Castro's joining the GOP?

[BrklynLiberal]

4. hahaha hahah hahaha

[originalpckelly]

48. Gives better dead than red a new meaning. DAMN CONNIES!

:P

[John Q. Citizen]

3. ANd a personal visit with the President of Argentina. She must be another co-conspirator. in your

conspiracy theory?

[WriteDown]

5. Don't remember any audio or video footage of that...

but please prove me wrong.

[John Q. Citizen]

8. what straw man didn't you see? When the President of Argentina reports meeting with Fidel Castro,

you know she's really a plant by the giant lizard space aliens.

The real President of Argentina would never say what that fake one did, right? So it's got to be the space aliens, in my book.

[WriteDown]

16. And politicians don't lie....

Where you live are there gumdrop rain storms and chocolate streams?

[Ken Burch]

38. Why is it important to you to prove that Castro ISN'T alive?

Does it really matter? It's not like any good would come of proving the man WAS dead.

[bemildred]

6. Clearly Ms Fernandez is a "useful idiot".

What else could it be?
:sarcasm:

[SomeGuyInEagan]

7. Hell, I'm barely lucid now.

[Psephos]

56. lol n/t

[GoddessOfGuinness]

9. So in 4 years he'll be as capable of leading his country

as Dumbyass was 8 years ago.

[mike_c]

10. viva Fidel!

A great man passes gracefully into his last years.

[davidinalameda]

11. a great man?

tell that to all the people his government has killed and imprisoned over the years

[Hannah Bell]

12. i doubt it's more than the US has.

[Posteritatis]

25. And that means it's okay! (nt)

[Hannah Bell]

27. didn't say that, did i? i said i doubt it's more than the us over the same time frame.

by a factor of hundreds of thousands.

[intaglio]

13. Yep, a great man - Napoleon was the same sort

a great man but not one you would want ruling you. Equally there are great men who you want to lead but have to be forced; Vaclav Havel in the former Czecheslovakia being the prime example.

[Posteritatis]

26. Now Havel deserves that adjective (nt)

[Pyrzqxgl]

33. C'mon now Napoleon was an ally of the US against the British. Remember the War of 1812?

[intaglio]

39. ... and Saddam was once a US ally

I agree that Boney aided the US but it still doesn't make him a nice guy. He needed US money and the distraction of a colonial war to get the British (and their allies) off his back.

Mind you, if he hadn't supported the US, we might be seeing vice-Regent Obama taking over the reigns of our Great Colony of States


Oh and :sarcasm: for those who are a bit too literal

[Judi Lynn]

14. The producer of NBC News could have used your input before writing this article, rather than the CIA

CIA: Most Cubans loyal to homeland
Agency believes various ties to island bind the majority
By Robert Windrem
NBC NEWS PRODUCER

NEW YORK, April 12 <2000> — Cuban-American exile leaders — and many Republicans in Congress — believe that no Cuban, including Juan Miguel Gonzalez, could withstand the blandishments of a suburban American lifestyle, that he and all other Cubans would gladly trade their “miserable” lives in Cuba for the prosperity of the United States — if only given the chance. Witness House Minority Leader Dick Armey’s invitation to Gonzalez, offering him a tour of a local supermarket. But U.S. intelligence suggests otherwise.

THE CIA has long believed that while 1 million to 3 million Cubans would leave the island if they had the opportunity, the rest of the nation’s 11 million people would stay behind.

While an extraordinarily high number, there are still 8 million to 10 million Cubans happy to remain on the island.

~snip~
The CIA believes there are many reasons Cubans are content to remain in their homeland. Some don’t want to be separated from home, family and friends. Some fear they would never be able to return, and still others just fear change in general. Officials also say there is a reservoir of loyalty to Fidel Castro and, as in the case of Juan Miguel Gonzalez, to the Communist Party.

U.S. officials say they no longer regard Cuba as a totalitarian state with aggressive policies toward its people, but instead an authoritarian state, where the public can operate within certain bounds — just not push the envelope.

More important, Cuban media and Cuban culture long ago raised the banner of nationalism above that of Marxism. The intelligence community says the battle over Elian has presented Castro with a “unique opportunity” to enhance that nationalism.

There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials.

More:
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ019.html

[davidinalameda]

37. don't you ever get tired of defending mass murderers?

just curious

[Mika]

58. Don't you ever get tired of attacking Judi with puerile BS?

Judi shows respect to the DU community and backs up her points with links and sources. Pretty much the opposite of your attack dog innuendo.

[davidinalameda]

59. no, I don't

you all defend those who are the antithesis of what any real progressive should stand for

these dictators like Castro are totalitarian thugs who are no better than the dictators they replaced

they use fear and threats to keep their people in line

they are mass murderers and thieves

they don't believe in democracy

[Mika]

60. Funny thing, David, is that I've been there many times for many reasons,..

.. and Cubans who live in Cuba don't feel the same way as you.

If you think that Cuba's current system is anything like the blood soaked Batista regime, then I question your sense of reason.

Cuba is about as progressive a society as can be found in the W hemisphere. They've built a well rounded and fully supported social infrastructure, that includes their world class education and health care systems.

Cubans are not afraid. They've faced down oppression and won. They've fended off attacks from the most powerful nation on earth. They continue to defend themselves against continuous attacks by exile terrorist groups based in Miami. Yet, under this duress, they've expanded their infrastructure and protection of human rights.

The mass murderers and thieves were thrown out of Cuba in 1959 by a massively supported revolution that regained their sovereignty from the plundering US puppets and gangsters.

You see, I've been in Cuba during an entire election season and spent some time observing its function. Its fully open to anyone and every citizen who seeks to participate at most any level.


Please, do tell us of your experiences in Cuba.

[davidinalameda]

61. I've never been nor do I want to while the current regime is in power

who controls the newspapers?

who controls the TV stations and radio?

is there free speech?

can the average Cuban criticize the government without fear of reprisal?

do they have free elections?

when was the last time a non-Communist was elected to anything in Cuba?

if Cuba is such a paradise, why do people risk death to make that 90 mile trip to Florida?

[Mika]

66. Ho hum. How many times do you need these same questions answered?

Nice RW tactic. Keep repeating the question as if its never been answered. What's this, the 50th time you've posted these same questions?

One more time - please bookmark this post for the next time you have the urge to re-post these questions.

who controls the newspapers?

Which ones? Cubans can read the NY Times, The Guardian, and numerous foreign newspapers if they want to buy them at local news stands, or they can read them at the libraries or CDR offices. There are local newspapers and gossip rags in every city, town, and county in Cuba. Cuba isn't this gray and media barren place you seem to be envisioning. Cubans, by and large, are far more well informed than their American counterparts, in my experience.

who controls the TV stations and radio?

Again, which ones? There are government channels, but Cubans can tune in to US and other Caribbean and Central American TV stations easily. Radio stations are numerous. Some are public stations and there are some independent stations, but, just like TV, Cubans tune into radio from all over the region. They are not information deprived at all.

is there free speech?

Yes there is. Cubans are as activist a populace as you could find anywhere. Criticizing their government is a primary topic.

can the average Cuban criticize the government without fear of reprisal?

Yes. They do. That is how they run for office and get elected. By not only criticizing, but by participating also.

do they have free elections?

Yes they do

http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

when was the last time a non-Communist was elected to anything in Cuba?

Last election. Less than 20% on the National Assembly are communist party members.

if Cuba is such a paradise, why do people risk death to make that 90 mile trip to Florida?

Still working the tired "paradise" canard, eh? Who claimed Cuba is a paradise? Cubans come here for pretty much the same reasons other people leave their Caribbean and Latin American "paradise" to come to the US - except that only the Cubans have a US "adjustment" act and Wet Foot/Dry Foot migration policy that encourages illegal migration to the US.




OK David? Now bookmark this thread so you can refer to these answers the next time you get the urge to re-re-re-post these very questions again.

[davidinalameda]

91. they have free elections?

wow-so they have a mix of communists, moderates, etc in their national assembly?

a free exchange of ideas like most democracies do?

[AlphaCentauri]

102. What is a democracy?

Democracy: 1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

Isn't the peoples choice of government a democracy? if Cubans have control of their government, Cuba is a democracy.

[davidinalameda]

111. the Soviets had a democracy as well huh?

nice try thought

gotta give you a B- for effort

[AlphaCentauri]

112. Well, just try to tell me that capitalism is equal to democracy

like many freepers do

[davidinalameda]

116. capitalism is an economy system

democracy is a political system

they are not the same but they are not exclusive either

you have capitalistic democracies and you have socialist democracies as well

you have capitalistic totalitarian states and you have socialist totalitarian states-like Cuba

[Mika]

117. You don't know.

Still continuing with the disinformation campaign I see.

Here's a article describing how Cuba's democracy works.

I've been in Cuba many times, including during an entire election season, and this article pretty much confirms what I saw with my own eyes.

Direct Democracy in Cuba

The Cuban electoral system attempts to incorporate as many elements of direct democracy as possible.

A modern democracy must be representative. In Cuba, as in any other society, citizens delegate some of their legal authority to elected representatives who act as intermediaries between individuals and government agencies.

On the island, the base of this system are the delegates elected from each of the voting districts. These representatives act at a local level, form Community Councils; comprising several electoral districts; and sit on the municipal government.

By definition, delegates represent their electors at local levels of government and in other government institutions and organizations.

To carry out this role, a delegate must have extensive and detailed knowledge on public services such as the bodegas (state shops that supply basic provisions), schools, family doctors, health centers, farmers' markets and bakeries.

Direct contact with citizens, through weekly scheduled office hours and daily neighborhood contact, enable delegates to be aware of family and individual cases needing social assistance and other elements of local life. The types of dilemmas encountered include people having problems with gas, water or power supplies; whose telephone line is not working or whose roads need repair.

For each situation that arises, the delegate must find the most apt solution at the correct administrative level. For example, some problems will have local solutions, where neighbors can come together to resolve the situation. At this level, a delegate can look to labor, political and community organizations for effective solutions.

Other matters require contacting authorities immediately responsible at the municipal or higher levels. By law, delegates are required to attend to a matter and either find a solution or offer an explanation in a reasonable period.

Those matters that require the involvement of municipal or higher level political powers are channeled through work committees of the municipal assemblies or brought up during their plenary meetings.
Of course, the delegate does not only pass on complaints and problems; he/she must also keep constituents current on all relevant issues and their actions.

This forms an essential part of their responsibilities and their efforts should be explained in person and at the semester gatherings where they must justify their efforts to constituents.

These biannual meetings are a real example of participatory democracy. The delegate provides a report on the status of the work being carried out by the municipal government and addresses questions, problems, concerns and other topics raised by citizens in the previous meeting.

These meetings are informal and interactive; those present can amend decisions made by the delegate, approve local projects and establish neighborhood committees. They also have the power to revoke a delegate's mandate.

Representatives from all institutions present in the neighborhood must attend the meetings, when asked to by the community, and answer questions about the services that they offer.

The current Cuban electoral system is celebrating 30 years since its creation and has demonstrated its effectiveness. It enjoys the support and confidence of citizens who see it and their delegate as direct representation.

On the average, more than 60 percent of the delegates are reelected in elections that take place every 2½ years. Some keep their positions for 20 or more years; a real example of upstanding and self-sacrificing citizens, as delegates receive absolutely no pay.

Cases when a delegate's mandate is revoked or a delegate resigns before his/her term is up are rare. In these situations, new elections are convened in the affected electoral district.

David, when were you in Cuba?

Oh. That's right. You have never been there. But yet you continue to sling RW BS here on DU.

[Zorro]

81. Ha ha ha

Thanks for the laugh.

[ronnie624]

105. "U.S. officials say

they no longer regard Cuba as a totalitarian state with aggressive policies toward its people, but instead an authoritarian state, where the public can operate within certain bounds — just not push the envelope."


That sounds a lot like most other countries with laws that must be obeyed.

[mike_c]

22. I just love it when Americans criticize others for killing and imprisoning...

...people. We're among the worst offenders on the planet, yet we have plenty of righteous indignation to heap on others.

Castro led one of the most enduring people's revolutions in this hemisphere. Would you have preferred they remain under the thumb of the Batista regime and American imperialism? Successive American governments have tried to strangle Cuba ever since the revolution and they have failed. Fidel Castro has withstood them for fifty years, while making Cuba a model socialist nation.

Yes, I'd say he is a great man.

[davidinalameda]

34. the Cubans traded one thug for another

[EFerrari]

55. One out of 100 Americans is in prison today.

God bless America.

[Mika]

63. Mike_c, obsessing on Castro is what the Cuba detractors want everyone to do.

It plays into their propaganda to focus on Castro.

Castro didn't teach everyone to read during their famous literacy program early in the Revolution. Castro didn't build the schools that every Cuban child attends. Castro didn't train every student nor every teacher. Castro didn't build Cuba's health care system. Castro didn't build the clinics that exist in every neighborhood. Castro didn't train the nurses and assistants. Castro didn't teach the surgeons their scalpel skill set. Castro didn't revolutionize their farming system. Castro didn't create their tourism industry.

I could go on, but you get the point.

Castro isn't Cuba. Cuba isn't Castro.

The Cuban people did these things. They did these things because these are the things that they wanted. They had and have the audacity of hope. With the urgency of now. They did it with their own blood sweat and tears to make it happen for their children and their children's children. The Cubans have set an example for us all. Under GREAT duress, they have achieved great things.

By obsessing on Castro we ignore that it is the overwhelming majority of the Cuban people who have built Cuba's sovereignty, infrastructure, democratic socialism, and international respect and dignity.


Viva the good and decent people of Cuba!

End the US sanctions now!

[mike_c]

64. I wish I could recommend your response....

It's the best in the thread, by far. And thank you for pointing out how badly the detractors want to shift focus away from the accomplishments of post-revolution Cuba.

edit: posting with insufficient caffeine! :hi:

[Mika]

86. Mike_c, there's a lot of Cuba "experts" here. Problem is, they know jack about Cuba.

Cuba has broken all molds. It is its own thing. Im' sure that one of the reasons that the US government has banned Americans from traveling there is to prevent them from seeing the real thing. Instead we have to rely on hearsay and anti Cuba propaganda. Sadly there's a significant group of Cuba detractors here on DU who have some sort of cold war agenda, commiephobia, Castrophobia, or some such syndrome.

I've been there, and have been surprised each and every time. Cuba is nothing like the dark and scary place the RWnuts depict it as being.

[Posteritatis]

24. and gracefully?

Hell, "last years?" I'm still convinced he just doesn't know how to die and will be still annoying some future posthuman glowing-ball-of-energy US president in the 53rd century or something. ;)

[DutchLiberal]

35. Bush tortures = evil; Castro tortures = great man?

And that's leaving aside all the people he ordered executed or locked up for life just because they didn't agree with him.

[Judi Lynn]

40. How about providing a legitimate source for your information on

your claims?

As for executions, how many revolutions against bloody dictators who utilized torture reguarly, as did Fulgencio Batista, and who used death squads to pick up suspected leftists from the street, torture them, murder them, throw them into the streets, or even hang them in the trees as they did in Santiago de Cuba, could be accomplished without the furious people who were previously brutalized killing their former torturers, and murderers as soon as they got their hands on them?

Although you claim to be in Holland, you appear to be aping the position of our most obnoxious right-wingers, and they certainly aren't stupid enough to try to tell anyone that the US didn't execute people who tortured and murdered US citizens!

[DutchLiberal]

42. WTF? 'A legitimate source'? Try reading a fucking history book!

ANY of them, whether they'd be American, or Dutch or Russian!

If I were to claim the earth is round, would you ask me to give you a 'legitimate source'?

Fidel Castro is a dictator. I've literally read hundreds of accounts of people who escaped his terror, and no, they were not Miami Cubans.

"As for executions, how many revolutions against bloody dictators who utilized torture regularly, as did Fulgencio Batista, and who used death squads to pick up suspected leftists from the street, torture them, murder them, throw them into the streets, or even hang them in the trees as they did in Santiago de Cuba, could be accomplished without the furious people who were previously brutalized killing their former torturers, and murderers as soon as they got their hands on them?"

So because Battista was a brutal dictator, Castro gets to be one too? :shrug:

"Although you claim to be in Holland, you appear to be aping the position of our most obnoxious right-wingers,"

When all else fails: personal attacks. *Yawn*

[Judi Lynn]

43. Good to hear your comments from Holland. Please post a credible source describing the terrifying

executions and torture committed by Fidel Castro.

[DutchLiberal]

46. Try Amnesty International, or Human Rights Watch.

You know how the Google works, don't you?

[Judi Lynn]

49. I see what you mean! Amazing.

Published on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 by Reuters
Torture "Widespread" under U.S. Custody: Amnesty
by Richard Waddington

GENEVA - Torture and inhumane treatment are "widespread" in U.S.-run detention centers in Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba and elsewhere despite Washington's denials, Amnesty International said on Wednesday.

In a report for the United Nations' Committee against Torture, the London-based human rights group also alleged abuses within the U.S. domestic law enforcement system, including use of excessive force by police and degrading conditions of isolation for inmates in high security prisons.

"Evidence continues to emerge of widespread torture and other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of detainees held in U.S. custody," Amnesty said in its 47-page report.

It said that while Washington has sought to blame abuses that have recently come to light on "aberrant soldiers and lack of oversight", much ill-treatment stemmed from officially sanctioned interrogation procedures and techniques.

"The U.S. government is not only failing to take steps to eradicate torture, it is actually creating a climate in which torture and other ill-treatment can flourish," said Amnesty International USA Senior Deputy Director-General Curt Goering.

The U.N. committee, whose experts carry out periodic reviews of countries signatory to the U.N. Convention against Torture, is scheduled to begin consideration of the United States on Friday. The last U.S. review was in 2000.

It said in November it was seeking U.S. answers to questions including whether Washington operated secret detention centers abroad and whether President George W. Bush had the power to absolve anyone from criminal responsibility in torture cases.

The committee also wanted to know whether a December 2004 memorandum from the U.S. Attorney General's office, reserving torture for "extreme" acts of cruelty, was compatible with the global convention barring all forms of cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment.

UNTIL THE END

In its own submission to the committee, published late last year, Washington justified the holding of thousands of foreign terrorism suspects in detention centers abroad, including Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, on the grounds that it was fighting a war that was still not over.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0503-03.htm

[DutchLiberal]

50. I give up. If you want to justify Cuban human rights violations because "we did it too"...

Well, that's just despicable. And it's not an argument. And... well, I give up, you're batshit.

[Judi Lynn]

51. Feel free to provide those links. n/t

[DutchLiberal]

68. Human Rights Watch on Cuba:

2008:

Despite Fidel Castro’s resignation today, Cuba’s abusive legal and institutional mechanisms continue to deprive Cubans of their basic rights, Human Rights Watch said today. The counterproductive US embargo policy continues to give the Cuban government a pretext for human rights violations.

For almost five decades, Cuba has restricted nearly all avenues of political dissent. Cuban citizens have been systematically deprived of their fundamental rights to free expression, privacy, association, assembly, movement, and due process of law. Tactics for enforcing political conformity have included police warnings, surveillance, short-term detentions, house arrests, travel restrictions, criminal prosecutions, and politically motivated dismissals from employment.

Cuba’s legal and institutional structures have been at the root of its rights violations. The rights to freedom of expression, association, assembly, movement, and the press are strictly limited under Cuban law. By criminalizing enemy propaganda, the spreading of “unauthorized news,” and insult to patriotic symbols, the government curbs freedom of speech under the guise of protecting state security. The courts are not independent; they undermine the right to fair trial by restricting the right to a defense, and frequently fail to observe the few due process rights available to defendants under domestic law.

For more than four decades, the US government has used Cuba’s dismal rights record to justify a sweeping economic embargo aimed at toppling the Castro regime. Yet the policy did nothing to bring change to Cuba. On the contrary, it helped consolidate Castro’s hold on power by providing his government with an excuse for its problems and a justification for its abuses. Moreover, because the policy was imposed in such a heavy-handed fashion, it enabled Castro to garner sympathy abroad, neutralizing international pressure rather than increasing it.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/02/18/cuba-fidel-castro-s-abusive-machinery-remains-intact

2005:

Most Cubans do want change. If they do not call for it after Mr Castro's death, it will be largely for the same reason they did not during his lifetime: the country's repressive machinery, which ruined countless lives, remains intact today.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/12/21/restraint-not-force-will-bring-change-cuba

1999:

Over the past forty years, Cuba has developed a highly effective machinery of repression. The denial of basic civil and political rights is written into Cuban law. In the name of legality, armed security forces, aided by state-controlled mass organizations, silence dissent with heavy prison terms, threats of prosecution, harassment, or exile. Cuba uses these tools to restrict severely the exercise of fundamental human rights of expression, association, and assembly. The conditions in Cuba's prisons are inhuman, and political prisoners suffer additional degrading treatment and torture. In recent years, Cuba has added new repressive laws and continued prosecuting nonviolent dissidents while shrugging off international appeals for reform and placating visiting dignitaries with occasional releases of political prisoners.

http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/1999/06/01/cubas-repressive-machinery

[Judi Lynn]

77. The Guardian on Human Rights Watch:

Bias claim against reporters' group
International body denies being part of 'neocon crusade'
Duncan Campbell guardian.co.uk, Thursday 19 May 2005 07.13 BST

The international journalists' organisation Reporters Without Borders (RSF) has been accused of receiving money from the US state department and Cuban exile groups and of pursuing a political agenda.

~snip~
The attack on RSF came in reports published by the Washington-based non-profit organisation the Council on Hemispheric Affairs and the US Newspaper Guild journal. Both were written by journalist Diana Barahona.

She claimed that RSF was failing to follow the non-partisan example of Médecins sans Frontières - Doctors Without Borders - and suggested that it was part of a "neocon crusade against the Castro regime". The reports suggested that RSF had highlighted Cuba rather than countries that were more dangerous for journalists, such as Colombia.

Barahona also claimed RSF was "on the payroll of the US state department" and had received money from the Centre for a Free Cuba, an exile group. The reports suggested that Mr Menard had campaigned to have Cuban government accounts at European banks frozen in the same way as "the bank accounts of terrorists".

~snip~
A spokesman for the National Union of Journalists in London said yesterday: "It is very dangerous when press freedom organisations get themselves politically compromised by accepting payment from any government. It is really vital that all such organisations are truly independent."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/may/19/pressandpublishing.usnews

[DutchLiberal]

94. You're the leftist equivalent of fundies who say anything but Fox is unreliable...

Thanks for playing. Have a nice day. Okay now, buh-bye. :hi:

[ronnie624]

106. José Miguel Vivanco is full of shit.

But he doesn't mention anything about torture and mass murder.

[DutchLiberal]

73. Amnesty International on Cuba:

2008:

The practice of using the criminal justice system to silence political dissidents and critics continued. Many were sentenced for a crime known as “social dangerousness”, a pre-emptive measure defined as the “proclivity to commit a crime”. Behaviour such as drunkenness, drug addiction and “anti-social behaviour” is criminalized under this legislation. However, it was almost exclusively applied to political dissidents, independent journalists and critics of the government. Those convicted of “dangerousness” face up to four years’ imprisonment and can be subjected to “therapeutic treatment”, “re-education” or “surveillance by the Revolutionary National Police”.

Harassment of political dissidents, independent journalists and critics for carrying out dissident activities or reporting on the human rights situation in Cuba continued. Some were detained for 24 or 48 hours and then released; others were held for months or even years awaiting trial.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba/report-2008

2007:

Scores of people across Cuba are held without charge, and in some cases without trial, on suspicion of counter-revolutionary activities or on unclear charges.

Prisoner of conscience Emilio Leyva Pérez, President of Hard Front Line, Frente Línea Dura and delegate of the Assembly to Promote Civil Society, Asamblea para promover la Sociedad Civil, was arrested on 13 July 2005 whilst participating in a peaceful event in Havana, He has been held without charge or trial. He was declared a prisoner of conscience in the past after he was detained in February 2002. On that occasion, he was held without being tried until he was released in June 2004.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR25/003/2007/en/dom-AMR250032007en.html

[Judi Lynn]

78. Former A-I-USA board member on Amnesty International:

~snip~
Assessment by a former AI-USA board member
Prof. Francis A. Boyle (Professor of International Law, Univ. of Illinois, Champaign) from an interview with Dennis Bernstein:

"Amnesty International is primarily motivated not by human rights but by publicity. Second comes money. Third comes getting more members. Fourth, internal turf battles. And then finally, human rights, genuine human rights concerns. To be sure, if you are dealing with a human rights situation in a country that is at odds with the United States or Britain, it gets an awful lot of attention, resources, man and womanpower, publicity, you name it, they can throw whatever they want at that. But if it's dealing with violations of human rights by the United States, Britain, Israel, then it's like pulling teeth to get them to really do something on the situation. They might, very reluctantly and after an enormous amount of internal fightings and battles and pressures, you name it. But you know, it's not like the official enemies list."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Amnesty_International

[DutchLiberal]

89. Yeah sure, blame the messenger!

Why ask for sources (which is like asking "prove to me the earth is not flat", to begin with), if you already have you answers ready? You're in a constant state of denial. You're no better informed than the 25% of fundies who still support George W. Bush. You are constantly engaging in a process of cognitive dissonance, in which you must always block factual information that contradicts the bubble in which you live.

[ronnie624]

107. Thanks. Very interesting.

From your link:

"Of course the worst instance is well known, and that's the Kuwaiti dead babies report. I was on the AI USA board at that time, it was the late Fall of 1990 and, as you know, we were on the verge of going to war. There was going to be a debate coming up in the United States Congress, and a vote. And at the end of November or so, mid-November, since I was a board member, I got a pre-publication copy of the Amnesty report on the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. So I immediately read through this report and it was sloppy, it was inaccurate even its statement of applicable law....And as a result of that, I made an effort to hold that report back for further review, on those grounds that I gave to you....They wouldn't do it. It was clear it was on the fast track there in London. This was not AI USA, this was in London. And it had been put on the fast track, they were ramming it through. They didn't care. Finally, I said look, let us at least put out an Errata report to accompany it on those aspects that are clearly wrong. They refused to do that either. They then put the report out, and you know what a terrible impact that had in terms of war propaganda."

[DutchLiberal]

72. Amnesty International on Cuba:

2008:

The practice of using the criminal justice system to silence political dissidents and critics continued. Many were sentenced for a crime known as “social dangerousness”, a pre-emptive measure defined as the “proclivity to commit a crime”. Behaviour such as drunkenness, drug addiction and “anti-social behaviour” is criminalized under this legislation. However, it was almost exclusively applied to political dissidents, independent journalists and critics of the government. Those convicted of “dangerousness” face up to four years’ imprisonment and can be subjected to “therapeutic treatment”, “re-education” or “surveillance by the Revolutionary National Police”.

Harassment of political dissidents, independent journalists and critics for carrying out dissident activities or reporting on the human rights situation in Cuba continued. Some were detained for 24 or 48 hours and then released; others were held for months or even years awaiting trial.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba/report-2008

2007:

Scores of people across Cuba are held without charge, and in some cases without trial, on suspicion of counter-revolutionary activities or on unclear charges.

Prisoner of conscience Emilio Leyva Pérez, President of Hard Front Line, Frente Línea Dura and delegate of the Assembly to Promote Civil Society, Asamblea para promover la Sociedad Civil, was arrested on 13 July 2005 whilst participating in a peaceful event in Havana, He has been held without charge or trial. He was declared a prisoner of conscience in the past after he was detained in February 2002. On that occasion, he was held without being tried until he was released in June 2004.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR25/003/2007/en/dom-AMR250032007en.html

[Judi Lynn]

80. Here's former US Interests Section Head in Havana, Wayne Smith, on professional Cuban "dissidents:"

The U.S. Propaganda Machine

We {in the USA} aren't really interested in democracy and human rights. We just use those words to hide our true reasons....

Since 1985, we have stated publicly that we will encourage and openly finance dissident and human rights groups in Cuba; this, too, is in our interests. The United States isn't financing all those groups--only the ones that are best known internationally.

Those dissidents and human rights groups in Cuba--that are nothing but a few people--are only important to the extent that they serve us in a single cause: that of destabilizing Fidel Castro's regime.

--Wayne Smith, former head of the US Interests Section in Havana (1)

It is no secret that the US government funds dissident and "human rights" groups in Cuba. See, for example, the official USAID website. There you see budgeted items for groups such as Cuba Free Press and CubaNet (often the source of anti-Cuban "news" at the soc.culture.cuba news group). These items, even in themselves being several thousand times the average Cuban's annual income, are an enormous sum of money. Try to imagine the reaction of the FBI to an amount several thousand times the average American's annual income from a foreign government to subversive groups in the USA. And these items were certainly not the first nor last of such allocations. At this writing, the US government is considering additional funding for dissident groups in Cuba totaling $100 million!

In addition to the considerable resources of the US government, there is the funding from private groups like the Cuban-American National Foundation (CANF), with its known links to anti-Cuban terrorist groups. On September 14, 2000, The Washington Post reported that the CANF was planning to "quadruple the amount of money it sends to dissident leaders on the island." And that "a portion of the group's $10 million annual budget -- he declined to say how much -- will begin flowing to the island through sympathetic dissidents by the end of the year."

Remember that these sponsoring groups -- the US government and fanatical elements of the Cuban exile community -- have sponsored or participated in a military invasion, countless terrorist attacks and acts of sabotage, and a universally condemned, genocidal embargo against the Cuban people.

More:
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ105.html

[DutchLiberal]

90. You asked for *reliable* sources, yet you expect me to swallow this propaganda?

:rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

96. He knows more about Cuba, having worked there for the U.S. State Department as a

legitimate diplomat representing the entire country, not the U.S. right wing, like _Bush's ambassadors.

[Mika]

108. People who have worked, studied, or lived in Cuba have no credibility on Cuba.

Only the armchair cold-warriors posting 2nd hand fabrications from AI and HRW have credibility.

:sarcasm:

[Judi Lynn]

113. Those who have actually been there, who have an accurate grasp of the place

who don't rave on against the Cuban revolution apparently are discredited because it must mean they are "communists," a term which some visitors here seem to be glad to fling like cyber Joe McCarthys at DU'ers who support normalizing relations with Cuba immediately, although we are forbidden from calling those same posters "freepers," "right-wingers," and of course the always beloved "fascists."

Why this is possible is mysterious, isn't it?

[Mika]

115. Mysterious indeed. Very sad.

It is this very mindset you speak of that has prevailed for so long in the standoff by the US against Cuba. Has stood in the way of progress and in the way of unimaginable positive possibilities. I find this all very sad.

I have hope that things will change.

[Judi Lynn]

44. Here's a good example of finding a link describing torture and executions:

FULGENCIO BATISTA
President of Cuba

Cuban Army Sergeant Fulgencio Batista first seized power in a 1932 coup. He was President Roosevelt's handpicked dictator to counteract leftists who had overthrown strongman Cerardo Machado. Batista ruled or several years, then left for Miami, returning in 1952 just in time for another coup, against elected president Carlos Prio Socorras. His new regime was quickly recognized by President Eisenhower. Under Batista, U.S. interests flourished and little was said about democracy. With the loyal support of Batista, Mafioso boss Meyer Lansky developed Havana into an international drug port. Cabinet offices were bought and sold and military officials made huge sums on smuggling and vice rackets. Havana became a fashionable hot spot where America's rich and famous drank and gambled with mobsters. As the gap between the rich and poor grew wider, the poor grew impatient. In 1953, Fidel Castro led an armed group of rebels in a failed uprising on the Moncada army barracks. Castro temporarily fled the country and Batista struck back with a vengeance. Freedom of speech was curtailed and subversive teachers, lawyers and public officials were fired from their jobs. Death squads tortured and killed thousands of "communists". Batista was assisted in his crackdown by Lansky and other members of organized crime who believed Castro would jeopardize their gambling and drug trade. Despite this, Batista remained a friend to Eisenhower and the US until he was finally overthrown by Castro in 1959.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

[DutchLiberal]

47. So because Battista was a monster, Castro gets to be one, too?

Swell.

[Judi Lynn]

45. Maybe this Wikipedia is something you can use:

Cuban Revolution

~snip~
Hundreds of suspected Batista-era agents, policemen and soldiers were put on public trial for human rights abuses and war crimes, including murder and torture. Most of those convicted in revolutionary tribunals of political crimes were executed by firing squad, and the rest received long prison sentences. One of the most notorious examples of revolutionary justice was the executions of over 70 captured Batista regime soldiers, directed by Raúl Castro after capturing Santiago. For his part in Havana, Che Guevara was appointed supreme prosecutor in La Cabaña Fortress. This was part of a large-scale attempt by Fidel Castro to cleanse the security forces of Batista loyalists and potential opponents of the new revolutionary regime that could launch a counter-revolution. Others were fortunate to be dismissed from the army and police without prosecution, and some high-ranking officials in the ancien régime were exiled as military attachés.<12>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution

[DutchLiberal]

70. Wikipedia on Castro's human rights violations:

The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions.<132> Dissidents complain of harassment and torture.<133> While the Cuban government placed a moratorium on capital punishment in 2001, it made an exception for perpetrators of an armed hijacking 2 years later. Groups like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have issued reports on Cuban prisoners of conscience.<134> Opponents claim the Cuban government represses free expression by limiting access to the Internet.<135>

Human Rights Watch claims that the true number of political prisoners may be understated.<136> According to them, political prisoners, along with the rest of Cuba's prison population, are confined to jails with substandard and unhealthy conditions.<136>

In the last weeks of March 2003 the Cuban government sentenced 75 members of the opposition to prison terms of up to 28 years. The activists were charged with "disrespect" toward the Revolution, “treason,” and “giving information to the enemy”.<137><138>

The numbers of recognized political prisoners varies over time. All former political prisoners are subject to arbitrary re-arrest.<139> Political arrests continue.<140>

The Ladies in White are the wives and relatives of a group imprisoned in 2003 for collusion with the United States and attempting to overthrow the Cuban government.

Racial progress has eroded in the last few years <141>.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba#Human_rights

[Mika]

82. War of words: website (Wikipedia) can't define Cuba

Wiki is no place too be getting accurate info on Cuba.

War of words: website can't define Cuba
http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y06/may06/10e4.htm

What's a neutral point of view? The Cuba entry in the online reference site Wikipedia shows just how difficult it is for the volunteer-run website to tackle politically charged subjects.

By Pablo Bachelet, [e-mail]. Posted on Wed, May. 03, 2006.

WASHINGTON - One editor complained that Havana sympathizers were transforming a scholarly enterprise into ''their own private Fidel Castro fan page.'' A user was tossed out after threatening to sue another for libel.

The fuss is over the Cuba entry in Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia created, edited and administered entirely by volunteers with the altruistic purpose of becoming a Web-based knowledge repository for humanity.

But the Cuba entry, like those on President Bush and abortion, has been snared in intense political divisions over everything from the impact of U.S. sanctions on the communist-ruled island to whether it should have a separate section on its human rights record. Russia and North Korea do not.

There have been so many dueling edits -- 30 entries on April 27 alone -- that the article has been placed off-limits to first-time or unregistered users. The article has notices alerting readers that the neutrality of four sections is under dispute.

A central tenet of Wikipedia is that articles must be written in a neutral point of view. But, as the debate on the talk page attached to the Cuba article demonstrates, neutrality is often in the eye of the beholder.

The debate over Cuba turned intense after Adam Carr, who identifies himself as having a Ph.D. in history from the University of Melbourne in Australia and a gay rights activist, introduced this sentence high in the article: "Cuba is a socialist republic, in which the Communist Party of Cuba is the sole legal political party, and is the only state in the western hemisphere that is not a democracy.''

SPIRITED DEBATE

This prompted responses that went from scholarly citations of political scientists with definitions of democracy, to accusations of not-so-hidden political agendas.

Bruce Hallman wrote that calling Cuba undemocratic is a ''logical fallacy'' because it applies ''capitalistic values'' in the context of a socialist society. 'Might it be possible to write the article without using the word 'democracy' at all?'' he suggested.

''Sorry, comrade, no dice,'' answered Carr, one of the few writers who posts a description of himself. "These comments show quite clearly that you are a communist, or at least someone who actively supports the Castro dictatorship, not just . . . someone who is naïve about the realities of Cuba.''

With neither side giving in, on April 15 a ''mediation cabal'' -- an informal mediator -- joined the discussion. The cabal suggested citing reputable sources to back the Cuba-is-not-a-democracy sentence.

''If we need a citation that Cuba is not a democracy, then maybe we need citation that Cuba is in Latin America,'' retorts CJK, another user.

''Cuba is a dictatorship, plain and simple,'' says Carr, calling Castro's foreign supporters "gullible idiots.''

Failing to produce an agreement, the cabal departed after complaining that several editors were being rude.

Others argued that if the article discusses human rights in Cuba, then it should also point out U.S. human rights abuses. ''We will not be distracted by the well-known communist diversionary tactic of playing bogus moral equivalence games,'' Carr responded.

Scott Grayban, a talk page writer who claims to be a U.S. Air Force veteran, calls Carr ''nothing more than a pro-Bush hate-Cuba type person'' and in a separate e-mail threatened to sue Carr for libel. An administrator promptly banned Grayban for life from editing Wikipedia.

Other users also have been banned, including ''Comandante,'' who has changed the Cuba article more than 700 times. Another participant wrote that Comandante's Internet address suggests he lives in Cuba.

POPULAR SITE

A few years ago, online discussions of this sort would have gone unnoticed. But Wikipedia is now the 17th-most-visited site in the world, according to Alexa Internet, a Web-ranking outfit owned by Amazon.com.

Created by Web entrepreneur Jimmy Wales, who today heads the foundation that oversees the site, Wikipedia is an example of ''social computing'' -- the ability of users to create their own content without relying on the filters of newspaper or hard-copy encyclopedia editors.

Wikipedia has had some stumbles. A hoax entry wrongly implicated journalist John Seigenthaler in the JFK assassination. Several U.S. congressional staffers have been caught altering their bosses' entries.

There are now 900 volunteer administrators patrolling the site to keep troublemakers at bay, as well as formal arbitration mechanisms.

Most articles are uncontroversial, says Kat Walsh, an administrator for Wikipedia. But ''where people are out fighting in the real world, they're going to have differences of opinion on Wikipedia as well,'' she said.

[DutchLiberal]

93. Hey, you started using Wikipedia as a source, remember?

Alzheimers much? :rofl:

[Mika]

109. Get a grip. I posted no Wikipedia links on Cuba.

I know Wiki is unreliable on most all things relating to Cuba.

Why the need for the infantile insults?

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Judi Lynn]

114. Cuba information has been in chaos there for years. Sad the right-wing hate industry,

going on information from the Miami Cuban "exile" hate industry, has managed to monopolize this potential information source with a heavy-handed grip on that Cuba page. The Cuban reactionary "exile" hardliners have controlled US, and finally Latin American policy itself completely whenever there's a right-wing President. They even found a way to control Bill Clinton, possibly via his wife's Cuban "exile" activist sister-in-law, Maria Victoria Arias in Florida. Damned sad, isn't it?

I read the other day that although most people believe Clinton relaxed restraints on Cuba, as in the people-to-people meetings, some loosening of travel restrictions, etc., what actually happened, due to the Cuban "exile" control of legislation in Congress during his Presidency, was that our own national policy in that short 8 years was returned to the rigidity and harshness of the Eisenhower administration's relationship with them.

That's when the powerful, delusional, egomaniacal Cuban "exile" Jorge Mas Canosa and his terroristic CANF came into full bloom, as you recall, and they rammmed through that goddawful legislation they had been hoping to enforce long before, when it was actually shunned by the elder _Bush as unworkable due to the internationally illegal, extraterritorial interference imposed upon other 3rd party countries attempting to do their business with Cuba. As you know, the rest of the country intensely resents and rejects this interference, condemning it yearly at the U.N. in the General Assembly.

Very interesting to see the Wikipedia people are having to rethink their procedure, discussed in yesterday's DU thread by DU'er sabra:

Wikipedia Reconsiders Editing Process
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3706964&mesg_id=3706964

[DutchLiberal]

69. Human Rights watch on Cuba:

2008:

Despite Fidel Castro’s resignation today, Cuba’s abusive legal and institutional mechanisms continue to deprive Cubans of their basic rights, Human Rights Watch said today. The counterproductive US embargo policy continues to give the Cuban government a pretext for human rights violations.

For almost five decades, Cuba has restricted nearly all avenues of political dissent. Cuban citizens have been systematically deprived of their fundamental rights to free expression, privacy, association, assembly, movement, and due process of law. Tactics for enforcing political conformity have included police warnings, surveillance, short-term detentions, house arrests, travel restrictions, criminal prosecutions, and politically motivated dismissals from employment.

Cuba’s legal and institutional structures have been at the root of its rights violations. The rights to freedom of expression, association, assembly, movement, and the press are strictly limited under Cuban law. By criminalizing enemy propaganda, the spreading of “unauthorized news,” and insult to patriotic symbols, the government curbs freedom of speech under the guise of protecting state security. The courts are not independent; they undermine the right to fair trial by restricting the right to a defense, and frequently fail to observe the few due process rights available to defendants under domestic law.

For more than four decades, the US government has used Cuba’s dismal rights record to justify a sweeping economic embargo aimed at toppling the Castro regime. Yet the policy did nothing to bring change to Cuba. On the contrary, it helped consolidate Castro’s hold on power by providing his government with an excuse for its problems and a justification for its abuses. Moreover, because the policy was imposed in such a heavy-handed fashion, it enabled Castro to garner sympathy abroad, neutralizing international pressure rather than increasing it.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/02/18/cuba-fidel-castro-s-abusive-machinery-remains-intact

2005:

Most Cubans do want change. If they do not call for it after Mr Castro's death, it will be largely for the same reason they did not during his lifetime: the country's repressive machinery, which ruined countless lives, remains intact today.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/12/21/restraint-not-force-will-bring-change-cuba

1999:

Over the past forty years, Cuba has developed a highly effective machinery of repression. The denial of basic civil and political rights is written into Cuban law. In the name of legality, armed security forces, aided by state-controlled mass organizations, silence dissent with heavy prison terms, threats of prosecution, harassment, or exile. Cuba uses these tools to restrict severely the exercise of fundamental human rights of expression, association, and assembly. The conditions in Cuba's prisons are inhuman, and political prisoners suffer additional degrading treatment and torture. In recent years, Cuba has added new repressive laws and continued prosecuting nonviolent dissidents while shrugging off international appeals for reform and placating visiting dignitaries with occasional releases of political prisoners.

http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/1999/06/01/cubas-repressive-machinery

[DutchLiberal]

71. Wikipedia on Cuba's human rights violations:

The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions.<132> Dissidents complain of harassment and torture.<133> While the Cuban government placed a moratorium on capital punishment in 2001, it made an exception for perpetrators of an armed hijacking 2 years later. Groups like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have issued reports on Cuban prisoners of conscience.<134> Opponents claim the Cuban government represses free expression by limiting access to the Internet.<135>

Human Rights Watch claims that the true number of political prisoners may be understated.<136> According to them, political prisoners, along with the rest of Cuba's prison population, are confined to jails with substandard and unhealthy conditions.<136>

In the last weeks of March 2003 the Cuban government sentenced 75 members of the opposition to prison terms of up to 28 years. The activists were charged with "disrespect" toward the Revolution, “treason,” and “giving information to the enemy”.<137><138>

The numbers of recognized political prisoners varies over time. All former political prisoners are subject to arbitrary re-arrest.<139> Political arrests continue.<140>

The Ladies in White are the wives and relatives of a group imprisoned in 2003 for collusion with the United States and attempting to overthrow the Cuban government.

Racial progress has eroded in the last few years <141>.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba#Human_rights

[Judi Lynn]

79. John Siegenthaler on Wikipedia:

The encyclopedia in question, of course, is Wikipedia. Launched in 2001, this collaborative web site is now the world’s largest encyclopedia with nearly 900,000 articles in English.

Unlike most encyclopedias, anyone can contribute to this one. Therein lies its success — and its failure. The open nature has resulted in a trove of useful information, especially in the science and technology areas. But on controversial topics, Wikipedia articles sometimes descend into a free-for-all, and the information may be biased or inaccurate.

http://www.jimkarpen.com/wikipedia-lies.html

Latin America and Cuba readers have watched the free-for-all at Wikipedia regarding Cuba, particularly. It has constantly been the target of right-wing assholes attempting to control public perception of Cuba, socialism, and Fidel Castro. Things have appeared and disappeared there which were astonishingly stupid. I gave up trying to watch that site for Cuba information long ago, after I learned someone was fighting damned hard to control a high level of disinformation there.

They even took the time to scrawl that Castro is the illegitmate son of a man and his maid, even though there have been photos and information on his father, a sugar cane grower, and his entire family in the public domain for many, MANY years.

Many people simply read books, and turn to other information when we realize the pool of information on a subject at any site like Wiki has been poisoned intentionally.

[DutchLiberal]

92. So when *you* quote Wikipedia, as you did in this very thread, it's okay...

But when *I* do it, it suddenly becomes unreliable? :rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

97. You apparently have time to try to attack posters but not enough time to read. Odd. I'll repeat

the quote:

The Internet: A Cornucopia of False Information?

April 2006

Imagine John Seigenthaler’s surprise last November when he read in an Internet encyclopedia that he was suspected of being involved in the assassinations of John F. and Robert Kennedy. The article also claimed that he had lived in the Soviet Union for 13 years.

This demonstrably false information about the 78-year-old former editor and publisher of The Tennessean newspaper was eventually found to have been put into the encyclopedia as a prank. But it had been online for four months before Seigenthaler discovered it and had it deleted.

And when he did discover it, he wrote about it in USA Today and drew worldwide attention to the incident.

The encyclopedia in question, of course, is Wikipedia. Launched in 2001, this collaborative web site is now the world’s largest encyclopedia with nearly 900,000 articles in English.

Unlike most encyclopedias, anyone can contribute to this one. Therein lies its success — and its failure. The open nature has resulted in a trove of useful information, especially in the science and technology areas. But on controversial topics, Wikipedia articles sometimes descend into a free-for-all, and the information may be biased or inaccurate.

More:
http://www.jimkarpen.com/wikipedia-lies.html

How hard can this be to grasp?

[DutchLiberal]

100. It's not hard to grasp at all. You're imposin double standards. That's very clear.

Wikipedia when used by you, to discredit Battista = good (of course it's good, he was a dictator for cryin' out loud!)

Wikipedia when used by me, to discredit Castro = bad (which is ridiculous, he is a dictator for cryin' out loud!)

[Chulanowa]

36. I'm not sure I would call him great...

But certainly impressive as all hell.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Fidel Castro - My days are numbered

Fidel Castro - My days are numbered
Jan 23 2009 WalesOnline

Ex-Cuban leader Fidel Castro said he doubted he would live to see the end of Barack Obama’s four-year US presidential term and instructed officials to start making decisions without him.

In an online column called Reflections of Comrade Fidel, Castro, 82, suggested his days were numbered, saying Cuban officials “shouldn’t feel bound by my occasional Reflections, my state of health or my death”.

He said: “I have had the rare privilege of observing events over such a long time. I receive information and meditate calmly on those events. I expect I won’t enjoy that privilege in four years, when Obama’s first presidential term has ended.”

He did not elaborate, but the lines had the ring of a farewell, and Castro suggested he was on his way out.

~snip~
The bulk of yesterday’s column was devoted to praising Mr Obama, the 11th US president since the Cuban revolution, in part for his decision to close the US prison at Guantanamo Bay.

Castro recalled his thoughts on Tuesday as he watched Mr Obama assume the “leadership of the empire”.

“The intelligent and noble face of the first black president of the US ... had transformed itself under the inspiration of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King into a living symbol of the American dream,” he wrote.

Castro praised Mr Obama as honest, writing: “No-one could doubt the sincerity of his words when he affirms that he will convert his country into a model of freedom, respect for human rights in the world and the independence of other nations.”

However, Castro suggested Mr Obama would succumb to threats greater than his own qualities.

“What will he do soon, when the immense power that he has taken in his hands is absolutely useless to overcome the unsolvable, antagonistic contradictions of the (American) system?” he said.

More:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/latest-world-news/2009/01/23/fidel-castro-my-days-are-numbered-91466-22761075/

Apparently Fidel Castro is informing the people of Cuba that, in time, the escoría (scum) of the reactionary "exiles" in South Florida, the ones whose filthy government triggered the Cuban revolution, are going to be right in their fantastically imbecilic claims made for years that he is dead.

[Scurrilous]

17. New photo of Fidel Castro debunks deathbed rumors

<snip>

"A picture of the ailing Fidel Castro was released Friday for the first time in two months.



The photograph taken Wednesday of Castro standing with Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner appears to be part of a concerted effort by the Cuban government to dispel widespread rumors that the ailing former leader was on his deathbed.

No photos of him had been published since a November meeting with the president of China, and the once-prolific newspaper columnist went silent in December -- leading Cuba-watchers to believe his health had taken a turn for the worse.

But Castro met Wednesday with Fernández de Kirchner, wrote a news column Thursday and Friday, and now the Argentine government released a photograph of their meeting."

http://www.miamiherald.com/581/story/868874.html

[robcon]

18. Looking at that photo, if he's not on his deathbed, he's close,

Not looking good.

[Mika]

20. At 82, post colostomy, every day looks good.

Of course, according to some here, there's a conspiracy afoot - he's already dead.

The Cuban government is concocting an intricate secret plot line that Castro will have .... get ready for it .... are you ready for this? .... Castro will have died in his sleep. :rofl:

What will those rascal Cuban communists think of next. :think:

[bitchkitty]

30. He's in his 80's and he is recovering from surgery.

I think he looks pretty well, all things considered.

[Scurrilous]

31. The Argentine President isn't looking bad either.

:hide:

[bitchkitty]

32. You so bad n/t

[WriteDown]

19. A photo? Where is the video or audio?

There are two possibilities. Either he's dead or in REALLY BAD shape.


Also, I wonder how much he is getting in his Adidas contract.

[Scurrilous]

21. Is that you Perez?

The Truth Will Come Out

[EFerrari]

53. LOL

[Hepburn]

23. When was he EVER lucid????

:rofl:

[Mudoria]

28. I was wondering the same thing

[Mika]

41. And I'm wondering..

.. when you'll climb out from under that rock of ignorance.


Rather than put such ignorance on public display, why not educate yourself?

http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/discursos/

[EFerrari]

54. Thanks, Mika.

Perfecto.

[barb162]

52. Maybe back about 1970 or thereabouts

[Judi Lynn]

57. Apparently all the people who crowded into Riverside Church in New York in 2000 to hear him speaking

in a speech (which was televised in the U.S. on C-Span) didn't know they weren't listening to a lucid person. No doubt they will feel deeply embarrassed if they learn you have claimed he hasn't been lucid since 1970. Makes them look like idiots, apparently.

Here's a small note I found in a quick google grab:

Castro packs Riverside Church
Article from: New York Amsterdam News Article date: September 20, 2000 Author: Boyd, Herb More results for: Fidel Castro Riverside Church | Copyright informationProvided by ProQuest LLC. (Hide copyright information)

Boyd, Herb
New York Amsterdam News
09-20-2000
Castro packs Riverside Church

As if to make up for the seven-minute speech limitation imposed on heads of
state at the U.N. Millennium Summit, Pres. Fidel Castro of Cuba spoke for
nearly four hours last Friday at Riverside Church in Harlem. It was the
mother of stem winders, and Castro assailed the developing world for its
neglect of the global poor and dispossessed. And despite the length of his
speech, the majority of the 3,000 or more people, inside and outside the
church, hung on to the very end.

"It ain't every day you get a chance to hear one of the world's great
leaders," said Tony Asante, a college student from Ghana. "He was
magnificent."

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-79488400.html

Also:

Audience in Harlem Cheers Castro
By Anita Snow, The Washington Post, Sunday 10 September 2000; A0

NEW YORK, Sept. 9 -- A church full of admiring American supporters in Harlem erupted in applause early today when Cuban leader Fidel Castro told them how pleased he was to shake hands earlier in the week with President Clinton.

"I feel satisfied by my respectful and civilized behavior with the president of the country that had been host of the summit," Castro told the invitation-only crowd at towering Riverside Church.

It was the first time Castro had publicly mentioned the much-discussed encounter between the two leaders at the end of a luncheon at the U.N. Millennium Summit, a gathering of about 160 world leaders. The news was especially encouraging to Americans who support the normalization of relations between the two countries.

Back in his olive green uniform after spending a week in the black suits he favors for presidential gatherings, Castro told the crowd at the end of a far-ranging address about how he encountered Clinton face-to-face for the first time on Wednesday afternoon.

Suddenly, he found himself in a line of leaders being greeted by the American president.

"I couldn't run away to prevent passing by that point," Castro said, growing animated at his speech, which early on was punctuated by the crowd's shouts of "Fidel! Fidel! Fidel!"

"With all dignity and courtesy I greeted him," the Cuban president said. "He did the same, and I moved ahead in line. It would have been extravagant and rude to do any other thing. The whole thing lasted less than 20 seconds."

More than 2,000 people attended the 8 p.m. Friday event organized by Cuban solidarity groups, with many of the invited guests lining up outside the church as early as 4 p.m.

The Cuban leader evidently went straight to the airport shortly after the gathering wound up.

Castro's plane landed at 8:47 a.m. this morning in Havana, where he was greeted at the airport by other top officials, including Vice President Carlos Lage, Cuba's Radio Reloj reported.

In Harlem, Castro was clearly moved by the affection shown him by the Americans who surrounded him, especially when they sang "Happy Birthday" in belated recognition of his turning 74 in mid-August.

"Dear brothers and sisters," he told them, hugging several children who gave him a plastic-wrapped bouquet of flowers. "You have been extremely generous and kind with us.

"It is only because of miracles that I have survived all these years," alluding to the many assassination attempts against the communist leader during his 41 years in power.

"I came to Harlem because I knew it was here that I would find my best friends," he added. Among those in the church were Reps. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) and Jose E. Serrano (D-N.Y.) and the Rev. Lucius Walker Jr. of Pastors for Peace, all longtime opponents of the 38-year-old U.S. embargo against Cuba.

The Riverside Church is an institution in Harlem, where it played a major organizing role in the civil rights movement of the 1960s. It was from this pulpit that the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. spoke out against the Vietnam War, and the church one of South African leader Nelson Mandela's first stops in America after his release from prison a decade ago.

More:
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43b/128.html

On edit, adding article:

September 11, 2000

Fidel in Harlem

Days after celebrating his 74th birthday and dressed in his familiar but faded military fatigues, Cuban President Fidel Castro, headed to Harlem after the United Nations Millenium Summit. There at Riverside, the church that Rockefeller built, he addressed a crowd of thousands.

This was Castro’s fifth visit to the US since the 1959 Cuban Revolution. In 1960, after less than friendly treatment at a midtown Manhattan hotel, he stayed in Harlem where he was welcomed by Malcolm X and Langston Hughes. In 1995 at the 50th anniversary of the United Nations, Castro again went to Harlem where he spoke at the Abyssinian Baptist Church.

This time around, as the media debated whether Castro and Clinton and shook hands at the Summit (they did!), thousands filled the Riverside Church, and flowed out onto the surrounding streets as the Cuban President spoke.

Among the national politicians present, Los Angeles Congressmember Maxine Waters said she was not there to represent the Democratic Party, but was there on behalf of herself. And in response to New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s comments that Castro should not be allowed into the US because he is a murderer, Bronx Congressman Jose Serano said Castro’s presence helped to clarify Giuliani’s future–a run for mayor of Miami!

http://www.democracynow.org/2000/9/11/fidel_in_harlem

[barb162]

65. People crowd around Hugo Chavez too. What does that prove?

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Friday warmly greeted President Barack Obama only days after accusing him of "throwing stones" at Venezuela and suggesting he was much like ex-President George W. Bush. snip
http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSTRE50M5M420090123

[DutchLiberal]

75. Hugo Chavez was democratically elected in internationally observed elections.

There are no elections in Cuba.

[barb162]

76. There are elections,but very one party oriented, Castro's party.

[Mika]

85. Another of DU's Cuba "experts" (who've never set foot on the island)

Knowing nothing about Cuba doesn't stop these "experts" from spewing utter bullshit all over DU.

Here are some of the major parties in Cuba. The union parties hold the majority of seats in the Assembly.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html

* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

Been there. Seen it.

[AlphaCentauri]

104. What? that is not a democracy, they have to many parties, they only need 2 in power

:sarcasm:

[Mika]

84. What you know about Cuba would fit on the head of a tiny pin - with room left over.

You were telling another poster to try the Google.

Take your own advice.

Google search: Cuba elections

---

http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

[DutchLiberal]

87. Reliable source...

:eyes:

There ARE elections. You can vote for the Communist Party, the Communist Party or the Communist Party.

You've been brainwashed. I pity you. Hugging a dictator. It's sad, really. :(

[Mika]

95. It doesn't work that way.

Anyone can run. No party affiliation needed. As I've mentioned upthread, less than 20% of the National Assembly are members of the PCC. :think:

Been there. Seen it.

Nice attempted insult. :+ My brain is clean of the Cubaphobia exhibited by so many "experts" here who've never been there nor done even remedial research, but yet feel the need to spout uninformed BS here - even going so far as to sanctimoniously "pity" posters who have done their homework or have actual experience. If you actually read my posts you'll see a common thread, and that is that I attribute the gains and successes of Cuba NOT to Castro, NOT to the Cuban communist party, but to the good and decent people in Cuba who make it happen. Far from "hugging a dictator" as you accuse.

I suggest brushing up on your comprehension skills.

[bitchkitty]

29. Puhleeeeeze.

I guess you think the President of Argentina has joined the conspiracy too?

There are drugs for these feelings you are experiencing, you know.

[ohio2007]

62. Fidel or Raul ?

there is a new Castro running Gilligans Island

[Mika]

67. You mean the Gilligans Island with universal health care, education, housing, gay marriage, etc.

Hate to break it to you, but the real Gilligan's island is the US.

Hopefully we'll join the rest of the world soon, during an Obama admin.

[DutchLiberal]

74. You forget: dictatorship, oppression, no elections, no free speech, no freedom of the press, torture

political prisoners, etc. etc.

[Mika]

83. 99 percent BS.

DutchLiberal, you seem unaware that A.I. and HRW do not do their own investigating in Cuba. They are using hearsay reports produced by "independent" "journalists" employed by RW agenda driven Cubanet in Miami and the US Interests Section in Havana. Cubanet is funded by the NED, the International Republican Institute, Heritage Foundation, Mellon-Scaiffe Foundations, the CANF, self admitted terrorists Luis Posada and Orlando Bosch, and other Miamicubano exile extremists. These interests and the US government have declared their interest in overthrowing the government of Cuba.

Not reliable sources of information.

While A.I. and HRW might do some of their own decent reporting on some nations, their reporting on Cuba (simply reprinting biased agenda driven product fabricated by US & exile paid stooges) is as disingenuous as the W* admin press office.


I have been in Cuba many times for long durations, from my youth until recently - including elections. I have seen none of the things you ascribe to Cuba. There are several other DUers who've had pretty much the same experience as me and largely agree.

I'm not claiming that Cuba is a "paradise" or that its perfect.


The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

Or a long and detailed version here,

Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-98 Elections
Arnold August
1999
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books

[DutchLiberal]

88. Yeah, right, I should listen to your propaganda instead of HRW and AI?

I should somehow disregard reports from internationally acclaimed, praised and honored human rights organizations in favor of your communist propaganda? :rofl:

The only ones spouting drivel around DU are people like you, who feel the need to hug a dictator who has tortured, shot, and imprisoned far more innocent people than even George Bush.

[Judi Lynn]

98. You've never produced any evidence for your claims of torture, execution, imprisonment

of innocent people, yet you continue to howl, red-bait posters, label posters as "communists," at a message board which specifically discourages that.

How is it people forget the stupidity and ignorance which drove Joe McCarthy to smear Americans finally destroyed him? It's stupid, and it's tacky.

He died of alcoholism after ruining lives of many Americans far better than he was.

[DutchLiberal]

99. I did post the evidence, you just chose to pretend it was all false.

Joe McCarthy was an asshole, a fraud and a pathetic, paranoid man. Just the kind of behavior you show when it comes to factual accurate anti-Castro information.

[Mika]

101. You didn't post the evidence. You posted hearsay.

By their own admission AI and HRW don't do their own investigations in Cuba, they get their reports on Cuba second hand from paid RW shills employed by Miami's Cubanet and the US interests section in Cuba. Cubanet's reports are a textbook example of the "some people say" agenda driven form of faux reporting - ever so popular in RW world.

[Eryemil]

103. You've got to be kidding me

Dutch Liberal, I am so sick of idiots like you spouting misinformation about my country of birth in order to justify their opinions.

You know NOTHING of the realities of life in Cuba, neither the good or bad. (And there IS plenty of both)
You know nothing about the people, the culture or the government.