AP Investigation: Banks sought foreign workers

[BobRossi]

Source: Associated Press.

"SANTA CLARA, Calif. – Banks collecting billions of dollars in federal bailout money sought government permission to bring thousands of foreign workers to the U.S. for high-paying jobs, according to an Associated Press review of visa applications.

The dozen banks receiving the biggest rescue packages, totaling more than $150 billion, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years for positions that included senior vice presidents, corporate lawyers, junior investment analysts and human resources specialists. The average annual salary for those jobs was $90,721, nearly twice the median income for all American households.

The figures are significant because they show that the bailed-out banks, being kept afloat with U.S. taxpayer money, actively sought to hire foreign workers instead of American workers. As the economic collapse worsened last year — with huge numbers of bank employees laid off — the numbers of visas sought by the dozen banks in AP's analysis increased by nearly one-third, from 3,258 in fiscal 2007 to 4,163 in fiscal 2008."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090201/ap_on_bi_ge/bailout_foreign_workers_2

---

Damn traitors.

[kywildcat]

1. This should be front page of every paper.

I'm speechless.

[Jambalaya]

101. The Planned Collapse of America --Must NOT see TV

Digg - The planned collapse of America David Rockefeller: "We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our ...
digg.com/2008_us_elections/The_planned_collapse_of_America_7 - 228k - Cached - Similar pages


The planned collapse of America Dec 7, 2007 ... We are seeing the planned collapse of America, coming down the road we are on. What are we going to do to get our nation off that highway to ...
www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2715.shtml - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

[bertman]

129. Thanks for the link to online journal, Jambalaya. That is some seriously scary shit.

No wonder we're seeing the militarization of the police and the expansion of mercenaries for domestic security.

Aren't we glad 9-11 gave us the Dept of Homeland (Fatherland) Security?

[NashVegas]

2. What Would You Guess That Reflects On?

Senior VP aside, $91k isn't a bad salary, so ... was there another reason beyond the salary factor? I'd like to hear their reasons before universally condemning them.

Because it isn't like any stock analyst or accountant ever complained about factory jobs going overseas or retail and other jobs being consolidated with buyout fever.

I'll carry a pitchfork to save high-paying white collar jobs when white collar workers start giving a fuck about anyone but themselves.

[Sanity Claws]

5. I'd like more information

I think this article should be front page news, not to condemn the banks but to require them to come up with an explanation. Why are they hiring foreign workers, rather than Americans? If it is because they are doing business overseas and want workers experienced in those markets, I just have further questions, such as why is our bailout money being used to help American banks function overseas? The money was supposed to help US credit markets, not overseas markets.

[Downwinder]

9. Is this why CITI needed a new airplane?

For commuters.

[kywildcat]

6. many of the big firms are sending work overseas

the accountants that didn't complain when their clients sent operations out of the country are looking for work.

[TheEuclideanOne]

16. and as the economy weakens

more and more companies will use outsourcing to cut costs, sacrificing quality and sacrificing the american economy.

[HughBeaumont]

10. Depends on locale. 91k is a pittance in NY.

And for a job like that, it's significantly lower than what financial institutions would usually pay for an American worker in those positions.

Within a 25-30 mile radius of NY, that buys you an apartment or a modest house at best. In Ohio, 91k goes way farther; we're talking a newer 200k home in the suburbs, easy (that is, if one lived in their means).

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. I beg to differ...91K within a 120 mile radius of NYC will NOT buy you any appartment/condo

even in a shitty run down area.

[closeupready]

29. Not anymore. Doubt that would even buy you a shack.

n/t

[geckosfeet]

62. I believe the poster meant allow you to qualify for mortgage/rental agreement.

[Night_Nurse]

89. wow... that's insane. nt

[druidity33]

130. my brother makes 90k

and he's a high school teacher! With only 3 years on the job. Granted, that's Long Island, not NYC.

But his 3 bdrm, 2 bath, 1 car garage on .23 acres was around $800,000.


:shrug:

[MikeE]

20. In DC it's not a lot of money either

[Waiting For Everyman]

38. Within commuting distance of D.C. it's a lot money.

[MikeE]

56. True, but...

within the city itself, not so much. I guess that's the trade-off, make a car payment or other transportation costs, or live in the city.

[Waiting For Everyman]

60. They could "offshore" an office to NJ or MD/VA instead of India.

They locate in the highest-priced cities, and then "cut costs" by offshoring?

They create a high cost and then solve it by axing our jobs. All the while feeding off of our consumer market though.

[acmavm]

18. Believe me, I understand your anger. I feel the same way toward all

they whiney IT and Tech people who sat comfortably on their asses, and still do, while blue collar jobs completely disappeared off the American workers radar.

And there us another way in which we've lost our sense of community, of country. We need to care about ALL JOBS that go overseas, not just white collar jobs.

[hootinholler]

25. I love you too, but let's get this straight...

I didn't sit on my ass while not only manufacturing jobs went overseas, but IT jobs went too. It has meant that my salary has been suppressed by the availability of cheap tech workers. It's a little different being an 'at will' and 'exempt' employee rather than covered by the labor protections of the labor laws.

Just what evidence do you have that we in IT applauded any jobs going overseas? None! Prove me wrong.

This attitude is not helpful to forming any movement now that we finally are approaching critical mass to be able to actually do something about it. Why are you helping them drive the wedge?

-Hoot

[acmavm]

30. When the steel mills shut down, where were you? When manufacturing

jobs started going overseas, where were you? Labor had NO SUPPORT from the 'white collar' segment of or workforce when their jobs started to disappear. NONE. But then corporate American discovered that they could replace Techies and programmers with overseas labor and then the whining from the white collar workers went from a few mumbled phrases of sympathy to a big WTF.

Look at what's happened to our country starting with the closing of the steel mills on down to today. Look at how much concern for labor there was when it became apparent that they were gonna be sacrificed for the cheap and foreign.

I'm past the threshold of 'middle age' and I'm working my way into the croakette stage, so I've been around a while and talking about this shit for decades. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've seen it. Every segment of our 'society' has been played against the other by the predator class, and they went along willingly with the program. People figured 'well, at least it's not MY job so I don't have to worry about it'. Enough people felt that way that the predators were able to move their dreams and schemes along until we got to where we are today and NO ONE'S job is safe. Not unless you're not a CEO on Wall Street. And that's because of the selfishness of the American people and the pervasive idea that 'I don't have to sacrifice, that's the ditch digger's problem. Let him get more education, that'll solve it. Meanwhile, so what if his family is doing without because I've got me a college degree. I'm special. It won't happen to me.' Well, look where that smugness took everyone.

[Waiting For Everyman]

41. You're right, and family farmers got hit early-on too.

To make way for agri-business.

[acmavm]

44. OMG yes the did. I am being an ass for not including the family farmer

in on this mess.

Hey, but these guys will undoubtedly think a five dollar donation to Farm Aid proves their committement to family farming.

[InkAddict]

69. Some of what you say is true; but I WAS in Cleveland when the

steel mills shut down. Don't say that some that wore the white collar didn't sacrifice. We voted for taxes that would improve educational opportunities, provide funding for infrastructure jobs, and care for the diseased and disabled in our communities yet increased our expenses and without getting raises for YEARS! We volunteered and bought boxes of GS cookies, sent our canned goods to the food drives, made "cancer pads" at church, and shared the fruits of our veggie gardens, and all while trying to hang on through the onslaught of unemployment that ravaged family members and friends who did not work white collar. Guess what - it didn't work;it made no difference -- because the overwhelming greed made all that hard work ineffectual. The corruption of Nixon's paranoia, the malevelance of Reagan, the lust that lured Big Dog, the narcissim of *'s whole family and the network of greedy Chicago Boys that meddled in other countries before trying it out right here at home. By my definition, they are all domestic economic terrorists to a man. But where's the accountability? Where's the oversight?

Job loss forced our re-locations, and by the skin of our teeth. Where to next?

[madrchsod]

71. oh ...you mean this--->

after my forge shop job was sent overseas i was told to get a job in the new info-service economy...but no one wanted to hire steel working guys who were union and made twice as much as an "info-service age" young hire.

no one gave a shit when our jobs were gone because they thought we were not worth the money we were paid. the only reason i care now is because i`m mellowed out over the years and i know now those "smug bastards" know how the rest of us felt.

[acmavm]

76. Yes, that is exactly what I mean.

[hootinholler]

107. I was in High School when steel was going down

Where were you? That was '78 when I graduated and went into the Navy. Why? Because there were no fucking jobs! The mills and the mines were closing, it was obvious in SW Pa there was little future there.

I have been watching. When you say "Every segment of our 'society' has been played against the other by the predator class, and they went along willingly with the program." you are doing that very thing! You are helping the have mores drive the wedge deeper with that shit. If you only think about the problem, it makes it harder to find a solution.

Us techies are not your enemy! The problem has been that we organize like a herd of cats. I've known for 30 fucking years no ones job is safe.

Oh, and don't tell an autodidact about the advantages of a degree.

Fuck you and your smugness!

-Hoot

[defendandprotect]

125. While what you are saying is not totally deniable, the nation has been heavily

propagandized over the last decades.

The unions as well have been heavily hit --- using organized crime and every kind of lie

to destroy them. Unions have long been co-opted.

On the other hand, engineers were attacked --- they purposefully trained more than could

be hired --- and then brought in foreign workers willing to take engineering jobs for less.


Nurses . . .

[ut oh]

133. Ah yes... all the techies' fault...

Sitting on our asses???

Damn dude, way to recruit help...

Actually, like every other working stiff out there, many of us were working a fuck ton of overtime trying to make our living.

And talk about smug... You're basically gloating now, that techies lost their jobs too. We sure got our come uppin's didn't we...?

And yes, I had my job outsourced in 2005. I went and got more work. I didn't sit around and blame 'blue collar' workers for setting the example of getting their jobs outsourced...

Now if you want to direct your ire at the people who were responsible for these policies, we can maybe come to an agreement, but if you're going to pull the good ol Republican tactic of projecting your anger on something, cause it seems like an easy target (like those gal darn inner city single moms... and gays who want to destroy marriage!), then you're you going to just come across as whiney.

[leveymg]

100. Critical mass has arrived - HR. 384, the TARP Reform bill has an outsourcing prohibition measure

the House TARP Modification Bill that was approved and sent to the Senate contains the following provision -- "the Myrick Amendment" -- that is sure to affect a number of Asian companies, and they may need to restructure as "Insourcing" companies: H.R. 384, TARP Reform and Accountability Act, Title 1, Sec. 101(f): http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:3:./temp/~c111beidM3:e4300: - (or go to Thomas)

(6) PROHIBITION ON USE OF TARP FUNDS FOR FOREIGN CUSTOMER SERVICE POSITIONS- Effective as of the date of the enactment of the TARP Reform and Accountability Act of 2009, no assisted institution that became an assisted institution on or after October 3, 2008, may enter into a new agreement, or expand a current agreement, with any foreign company for provision of customer service functions, including call-center services, while any of such assistance is outstanding.

Barney Frank, who floor managed the Bill, was talking about this on the ABC News Sunday show this morning. This Bill passed the House by an overwhelming majority, so something like it will almost surely become law.

[hootinholler]

108. Thanks for that heads up Mark!

It's a start and yes, I agree we are approaching critical mass.

-Hoot

[OhioChick]

127. It's a start..... n/t

[dave29]

32. I lost my "IT" job of 9 years in operations at a telecommunications company

company to a very well educated and nice young man from India. I got to not only drive him around while I trained him (they flew him to me), but come up with the script his "team" would be using back in India. It was destined to be an abysmal failure, and I let management know so. It was.

I was given one month to consolidate nine years of experience into a document this poor guy then had to explain back to people who knew nothing of protecting fiber optic lines.

I'm pissed about ALL jobs that were lost. I spent 6 months jobless and only managed to get a job as the very last of my savings dwindled to nothing. I am one of the lucky ones.

If that sounds whiney, go to hell.

Where was I during all of this time? I was doing my job, trying to make sure it didn't happen to anyone else. I saved the jobs of all the people who used the system I had to relinquish. Just because I was not out picketing on your behalf does NOT mean I don't care. I was trying to provide for my family just like any other decent human being.

[acmavm]

34. You go to hell. I'll look around and see if I can find you a road map. I

stand by what I said. And the history of the labor movement will back me up.

White collar worker's didn't give a fuck about labor when they heard about cheap foreign steel prices. Didn't hear much from white collar workers as the manufacturing jobs shut down and moved away. Why? Because their hero, Billy Jeff Clinton, was riding the wave of the dot.com bubble and they thought technology was gonna save the country, put everybody back to work, drag us out of the shithole we were sinking into. And the mantra because 'go back to school'. What a frigging joke.

Well white collar America below the CEO level found out that their heros sold them a bill of goods, the bubble burst, and their jobs went south, and east, and north as Rummy would say.

Then they finally got concerned.

[dave29]

37. I dealt with maps at my job, brother. Those jobs I saved -- blue collar jobs

the guys out on the road that were going to now have to listen to support calls from India, while they tried to protect the phone lines you and I use every single day.

We kept the lines up on 9/11, we keep them up so you can call all your friends and complain about how whiney we IT folks are. You point to anywhere on a map and I can tell you about a blue collar or union job I helped save.

Not all IT jobs are "white collar" -- I made far less than the average, so we can sit in hell together, friend, and we can point at any maps we want to, we'll still be in the same goddamn place.

I have never been an enemy of labor, but you aren't helping your cause today. It wasn't like I was begging for a white collar job, and I don't really see how the color of one's collar pidgeon holes anyone. That's bullshit, and you know it.

And for what it's worth, I was trying to be something probably worse, in your eyes, before I wound up having to get the only other type of job I could do in telecommunications -- I was trying to be a musician, until tinnitus and hyperacusis took that dream from me.

Tell me what you think of those stupid artist types who earn less than anyone in a labor union. Maybe then we can see who spits on who.

[acmavm]

40. ONE: I am NOT YOUR BROTHER. TWO: Do not discuss 'artist types'

or what they make because you are NOT AN ARTIST. My buddy Phil was (before he died penniless and homeless). So was my ex-husband who played Carnigie Hall at 16. They are/were 'artists' and believe me, you have no understanding at what kind of lives the vast majority of 'artists' live.

Other than that, congratulations on your labor-friendly stance. As big a cog in the labor wheel as you seem to think you are, why haven't you personnally been able to change the course of our economy? I mean, if you're representative everyone in the 'white collar' job industry? Oh maybe because 99% of you people didn't give a shit until it came to be your turn to see what outsourcing and the hiring of cheap immigrant labor was like.

Seriously, enough people in this country are capable of remembering what really happened when the American blue collar workforce was kicked to the curb.

Oh, I guess this maybe I should mention that I'm not here to make 'friends'. I'm here to discuss my country, politics, and the assholes who brought us to where we are today.

IMPORTANT EDIT: I AM NOT CALLING IT WORKERS AND TECHIES 'ASSHOLES', although I am sure that the weak minded will say I am. But I am saying that they sure as hell didn't care what happened to their fellow Americans when this whole jobs give-away began.

[dave29]

43. here's a link to my album. I put it out right out of college

I was training to play with the freaking Kansas City Orchestra at 16. My album made other people over a quarter of a million dollars.

Think I don't care about labor?

You can go drown in a river.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/davidfriedman

and another link -- in case you don't think I care about politics:

http://bushsbrain.com/filmmakers.htm -- look under musicians

edit to add, I'm sorry I called you brother. Knee-jerk reaction. I see I should have been less gender specific.

[acmavm]

46. 4 comments since 1997? A cross between Tangerine Dream and

Yanni?

See, you're lucky that some people will listen to anything.

[dave29]

48. see who spits on who.

For what it's worth CDBaby just got my album last year. But maybe you should listen to the music before you spit on it.

The album sold more than 20,000 copies with almost no money behind it. I guess that's not enough to impress you. But this wasn't about impressing you, it was about proving what you think of people who don't fit into your narrow idea of what it means to be an American.

You proved my point beautifully.

Goodbye.

[acmavm]

80. OMG! I'm being annoyed by the next Kenny G!

Ptooie!

[acmavm]

47. 4 comments since 1997? A cross between Tangerine Dream and

Yanni?

Now explain to me what on it is that's on that crapfest that's supposed to impress me.

[dave29]

53. I could care less what you think of the music

although you clearly have no intention of listening to it. The point is, music was MY LIFE -- until tinnitus and hyperacusis took it away from me. I was then forced into the position of having to support my artist wife, who does community theater, by taking this not apparently good enough for you "white collar" IT job (which I took pride in despite hating the fact that I had to do it). You are truly a sick person if you think just because my life went to hell and I tried to make the best of it, I am still somehow loathsome for not spending all my time writing dissertations about what happened to all the blue collar jobs out there. I told you what I have done to try to help. I showed you that I DO know what it's like to be an artist, and you have responded with nothing but hate.

You don't have to tell me why I should support labor. I do, wholeheartedly. Tell me why I should care about you? Because you've given me no reason to think you are anything but a loathsome person.

[acmavm]

58. See, here's part of your problem. You think people care what you think of

them, that everyone wants or needs your approval. Here's a newsflash for ya. They don't. And I don't.

I got real sick of your shit right straight off from the get-go. If you think in my first post that I was singling your arrogant ass out as being the root of the entire labor problem and what/who was apathetic at the beginning, you just validate my first paragraph better than any other example ever could.

I was talking about the abandonment of the blue collar workers when their fucking jobs first started to disappear for reasons that we now see were unacceptable and eventually would have a devastating effect on our economy and NOW, on our economic RECOVERY. This nation has nothing to sell. It has not manufactured good going out because every goddamned thing we use or buy is FOREIGN. And that started a long time ago. Apparently if you were putting out really lame music in 1997, you were not around and you were not part of what happened back then.

Now having explained the obvious, I think I can hear John Tesh calling you. He and David Hasselhoff want to talk.

[dave29]

61. whatever.

You posted a sweeping generalization about IT workers and their lack of interest in what happened to blue collar jobs. You have done nothing but make generalization after generalization about huge groups of people (IT folk, blue collar folk, labor folk, musicians) without taking into consideration all of the factors. I admit, you pushed the right buttons with me to tell the specifics of my story, and how you were wrong about generalizing my case. I apologize for thinking you would care. And now, I am apparently not old enough to understand how you've been the ACTUAL savior all along, and had everyone just listened to you, rather than my stupid music, or all the other stupid music from non-artist types who didn't die penniless, then maybe none of this would have happened and we'd be here, today, talking about how awesome both of us are.

I get it now. Thank you for clearing all that up

[acmavm]

65. Case closed.

[dave29]

68. It is far from closed. Tell me what needs to be done to fix it

since you've proven you are more than happy to complain about it. Tell me how we are supposed to get along as Democrats when you clearly have nothing but rue for those of us in the trenches with you?

Tell me, rather than belittle me, how WE make this better.

[5X]

87. biggest jerk on the planet, no matter what color of ur collar.

[w4rma]

99. acmavm , I would just like to say that you have acted like a total presumptuous SOB

on this thread. You are creating strife because you are bitter that it's taken this long for a majority of Americans to wake up and realize how badly we've gotten screwed.

[ut oh]

134. Definitely case closed

You're a very bitter old person...

You're casting aspersions towards IT people (and apparently artists who perform music you don't like). 'Steel' jobs started going away in what the 70's? Many of us were still in jr high or high school... What exactly were you expecting us to do then? Have a bunch of 10-12 year olds riot for you?

You have taken the victim role to a whole new level by blaming those that had nothing to do with the decisions that affected your job. But again that's how El Rushbo gets all those low income republicans to hate the inner city people too...


LOL!

[acmavm]

136. If you weren't around, then who said it was your fault? Do you feel guilty

for what happened back then? The point is that the labor movement was abandoned by people who are now pissing and moaning that they are being shut out of the job market.

Well, if you weren't around back then, why are you jumping in on this discussion now? Do YOU think you're responsible?

Simple fact, no one gave a shit about the blue-collar laborer when all their jobs were disappearing.

And as for the 'music' thing, I didn't bring that up. I didn't try to use some teally lame site for 'music' as a validation of my political or socio-economic reasoning. It had NOTHING to do with anything under discussion. And to bring it up like it was a deal closer, that I'd just automatically shut up and go away in the face of such raging talent, well that was just stupid.

[ut oh]

139. No, I too do not feel guilty

I was too young to do anything about it. Why exactly should I feel guilt about it?

It just seems counter-productive at this to single out 1 group of people to bitch them out for their apathy/non-action, when it was wide spread, even among other 'blue-collar' sectors. Especially if you are wishing people to come together to work on this.

And quite frankly, no one gives a shit about the 'IT jobs' either... So it further makes you look like a bitter person lashing out.

[Azlady]

70. Well, a slap in the face to me who was in IT and ALWAYS stood up

for the blue collar worker. I may have been one damn tiny little voice but I was writing letters, I was calling companies closing & sending their product/service over seas 20 damn years ago! I have let my voice be heard in the damn hardware store, auto parts stores, food stores, retail stores for 20 years, letting them know WHY I would not buy their product anymore, because it was taking J O B S away from our workers in America!

Was I part of a big organized group, no, I was just one person, screaming, writing, walking out of stores years ago and still today, for the American jobs going away & cheap ass products coming in from all over the world. I got kicked out of W Foods & Sunflower because I stood by their freezer section pointing out to people that the frozen "organic" veggies they were picking up were from China.

I'm sorry, I guess I should have sent you letter 20 years ago to let you know I was standing up for you and all American workers who's jobs were being shipped out of the country, duh where was my head!

Sincerely,
A Whiney former IT worker

[kitfalbo]

83. Organic Chinese veggies

I've seen them at costco, An oxymoronic statement. It's possible they are good, but I don't have the lab or the time to test them.

I wish everyone would check country of origin on their veggies. The companies not the people have the police on their side, and companies care more about imagined/real payroll savings than any issue with sending work over sea's causing quality to drop.

[LiberalEsto]

77. Instead of fighting with one another,

why don't we deal with the real enemy -- the goddamned corporations that have gotten away with everything? They just LOVE it when we fight among ourselves while they rake in their obscene profits.

FYI, before my husband became an IT worker, he organized a union at a NJ glassmaking factory. The company had him working swing shifts in retaliation for his efforts, and that forced him to drop out of college. They finally fired him the day his co-workers voted the union in.

[OhioChick]

78. You're 100% correct.

The corporations are the problem and our voices need to be heard.....in unison.

[Waiting For Everyman]

86. Definitely.

Enough of us have been hit by this now to see who/what's doing this to us. Time to lock arms and get some justice and recovery.

I want all IT jobs back here NOW. If the offshoring corps pull out, others will replace them. It's time to stop letting them blackmail us, and believe in ourselves instead of THEM. They aren't anything magic that can't be re-created. In fact, the big players have gobbled up LOTS of other companies in the last few years for no reason, just for profits in short-selling them on Wall St. The global corps don't create businesses, they EAT them.

[CATagious]

42. Hi Dave....

I've worked at an IBM datacenter for the past 5 years. When I started, we had about 15 people per shift but about 3 years ago IBM opened up datacenters in India and Brazil. Slowly but surely, we started losing accounts to these new datacenters and had to train the Indians or Brazilians. Now, we are down to 6 people per shift and just lost two more accounts to India. The thing is, the Indians are horrible at the job and the Brazilians are only slightly better. On many accounts we still shadow them and help them and sometimes you just have to laugh and shake your head at their incompetence.

IBM just had a wave of layoffs last week and we survived but the rumor is that we'll be gone in June.
Luckily, I saw the writing on the wall and started taking classes again and now will be graduating in May with a degree in Accounting. Hopefully, I can find a job that won't be threatened by outsourcing.

[dave29]

49. best of luck to you

I have a feeling good accountants will be needed soon. My grandmother was an accountant -- and she has survived every recession (and the depression).

-Dave

[kitfalbo]

84. Outsourced too.

Accounting is being sent overseas too on the corporate levels.

[kywildcat]

57. Not if you are hoping to cut your teeth with one of the big firms

google accounting outsourcing-specifically to India

[OhioChick]

63. I've never been a "whiney" tech person "sitting comfortably" on my ass

I've gotten too many pay cuts to count since bush took office.

I've always been a staunch supporter of "Buy American." I'm against NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, etc. and been very vocal about it.

Believe me....I do care about ALL jobs that go overseas. I come from a blue collar family.

[Dan]

85. Curious, what did you want IT people to do?

[aquart]

90. First they came for the blue collar workers, and I did not speak out...

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me."

Pastor Martin Niemoller

[Greyhound]

111. I am one of those "IT and tech" people and you are right. Both Ms. Greyhound

and myself were in IT. Both of us had our careers taken from us and both of us worked independently (years before we met) to both stop the off-shoring of our manufacturing base and later to organize IT workers.

She comes from a blue-collar union family, so lived the destruction of the 80s and 90s. I came from what became the reich-wing elite, and saw it being done from that perspective. My mom "divorced" her family because she would no abide what they do as a matter of course, so I had an interesting perspective of most of it.

The bottom line is, as generalizations go, you are absolutely right. While IT was not a huge field when they came for the manufacturing and farming sectors, there were few calls (actually none in my experience) for solidarity with the people having their lives taken from them, and later in the early-mid 90s, when the writing was on the wall, it was impossible to get any support from our colleagues for organizing ourselves to stop it.

Ironically, between our efforts to organize and the fact that we are both over 40, we are now unemployable in our fields.

I believe most of the objections you will hear are due to guilt.

[Hansel]

128. Nope, not guilt.

IT people are not the people to blame. Any more than welfare people or blacks or illegal aliens or women or any other group of mostly powerless people are to blame for what these greedy corporate monsters have done to this country.

It does no good to turn on people who are on your side and who are just as powerless as blue collar workers for what "global trade" has done to us. It is time to focus our energy on where the blame lies. Americans have been falling for this ruse ever since Ronald Reagan. They blame every group but those responsible so that we don't ever really hold those who are responsible accountable. It is the "hey, look over there" BS that bugs me.

When Reagan was president I was a working welfare mother and unemployment and the condition of the economy was my fault. He and Paul Harvey declared open season on me because I supposedly wore fur coats and drove a Cadillac. Blue collars workers felt no shame in attacking me publicly on several very embarrassing occasions nor did they mind commenting on what I should and shouldn't buy as they nosed through my groceries in checkout lines once they saw me paying with food stamps.

Now I'm an IT worker and again I'm suppose to take the blame for outsourcing because supposedly it is my fault that I didn't do enough to protect the same blue collar workers who had absolutely no problem attacking and degrading me. I didn't take the blame then and I'm not taking it now.

This is a BS game. There are people at fault. They are the ones doing the outsourcing. The greedy disgusting upper management and wealthly investors of America and the world. Let's focus our energy on where the blame lies and maybe we'll be able to finally fix the problem. But this "hey, look over there" approach and attacks on the powerless is not going to solve anything.

So you see, it is not guilt.

[Greyhound]

138. The poster of this reply didn't blame us for causing this, but pointed out our

quiet acceptance of it. Just as UAW didn't do shit to support the steel workers or PATCO members, we kept our heads down or claimed/hoped/pretended our "superior skills" would protect us, or simply ignored it all together.

Unless of course you are working for ITAA or an outsourcing/off-shoring tech company.

[Hansel]

126. Most IT and Tech people don't have a lot of say about

who is and isn't outsourced. Most have no management decision making power whatsoever and most of the ones I work with were not happy about blue collar jobs being outsourced because most of us have enough analytical skills to see where it was heading years ago. We're not stupid.

And I have never sat idly by. I have been bitching about outsourcing and its propensity to devastate the U.S. labor and business market for years. Ask my MBA ex-classmates--they hated me because wouldn't fall in line with their BS. I argued in every class about almost every corporate brownshirt talking point these morons spewed.

I wish we could have a class reunion so I could see their faces when I remind them that I was nearly 100% correct about everything that I predicted about outsourcing and the "free market" and ridiculously huge corporate bonuses and these idiotic mortgage investments and every other greedy scheme their Republican heroes came up with. And that they were nearly 100% wrong.

[OhioChick]

59. Quote:

I'll carry a pitchfork to save high-paying white collar jobs when white collar workers start giving a fuck about anyone but themselves.

I drive American made cars, buy what's available that is "Made in the U.S.A." and am against NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, etc. and I am soon to be unemployed IT worker.

What more do you want from me?

[Celebration]

95. LOL

I think some people want you to go on a hunger strike and call your local news so they can watch you wither away to sixty pounds, until every single blue collar job is brought back here. Anything less than that means he doesn't give a hoot if you lost your IT job.

[OhioChick]

122. Well....only 40 lbs. to go. n/t

[drm604]

137. Then get out your pitchfork.

I'm an out of work software engineer who's also active in Democratic politics. I was active before I was out of work. I think I qualify as a white collar worker who gives a fuck about others. Don't paint with such a broad brush.

[mwb970]

3. I really think this is the end of business as usual on Wall Street.

There have been exposés of corporate malfeasance before (Enron, WorldComm, et., etc.) but people seemed to take it in a "bankers will be bankers" way when it didn't hurt them personally. Now everyone is hurting, and the sleazy, insular world of Wall Street is revealed daily in increasingly outrageous stories of greed, delusion, and in some cases (like this story) explicitly anti-American actions. I don't think the people will just turn their heads away this time. This time the outrage is real.

[fasttense]

4. They take our Tax dollars and thumb their noses at us.

This is such a con. The banks have conned the money from us. They took the money under false pretenses. They were suppose to improve the economy with it not turn around and fire as many American citizens as they can get away with.

All the while Obama keeps feeding them more of our dwindling resources.

[INdemo]

66. Lets face it this is the biggest swindle in history and

it just didn't happen within the last year or so..For 8 years they have gotten away with raking investors money off the top and those in the financial end of government knew about it and refused to stop this "embezzlement" of our investments.I get tired of hearing that its the housing market that caused all of this when in fact the fat cats on Wall street were getting away with outright theft with the blessings of the former administration officials.
Its been 5 months since the first bailout and we haven't seen any improvement whatsoever..When Wall Street execs are allowed to get bonuses worth more than than the big three automakers received(and they had to beg)..well there is a big problem with taxpayers bailing out Wall Street when our jobs are being lost by the thousands every week.

[Vinca]

7. Not only should there be a "buy American" clause in the stimulus package,

there should be a "hire American" clause as well. They cannot assume for one second that any of these institutions give a shit about this country or its citizens.

[defendandprotect]

21. Great suggestion --- absolutely--!!!

"Hire American" and "Buy American" --- that should be the word out there and

anything else should be seen as betrayal.

[OhioChick]

67. You're absolutely right. n/t

[nradisic]

8. Nationalization is the answer

enough already....it is time "We the People" took over...

[edc]

11. You ain't seen nothin

:shrug: What next? Do we find out we chumps have been paying for their investments in drugs and slaves?

[mod mom]

13. Throw these greedy bastards in jail!

[Lucky Luciano]

14. There were a lot of Indians and Chinese hired by Wall St (I worked on the street)

Generally, the glamour positions of trading that got paid the most were very white, but the IT support positions that got paid well (though not like the glamour positions) were often Indian, Chinese, or Russian. I speak from having worked on a quantitative analyst desk (probably the highest ranking support people, but support nevertheless) for about a year before fighting as hard as I could to be made a trader (which I was promoted to by essentially giving the bank two options - promote me to trader or fire me). I was the only American - but at the same time, the PhD students at universities in the US seem like they are about 60% foreign as well (quant analysts are usually PhDs). So, it is partially a statement about the US falling behind in science, math, and computer science...but it is also the case that Americans don't want to be quants on the trading floor because the most senior quants "only" make $750K (1-3 years of experience got paid $150K-$300K and few became the senior guy I mentioned above)and have very little chance at their shot for glory and to be the "Big Swinging Dick" (ala Liar's Poker) or the "Master of the Universe" (ala Bonfire of the Vanities).

It should also be said that, for at least the bank I worked at (note the past tense), the quant desk would gladly hire an American, but the candidates they received that were the best were often foreign and they only want to hire the best best resume they can find. My boss on the quant desk interviewed someone every day and I saw him hire nobody for a whole year. They were never specifically looking, but if they found the right person, they would have hired. Interviewing is also useful though to pick someone's brain to see what knowledge they can pass you.

[edc]

33. Hmmmm

Whether justified economically or not, bringing in large numbers of foreign workers is politically and socially stupid, especially during hard times. Also, India and China have not become economic powerhouses by importing cheaper labor from abroad. They grew their own. While it's good to have them, we enroll foreign students in our universities less because of their superior qualification but because they pay a lot more to attend and having them serves our foreign policy interests.

[TheEuclideanOne]

15. Don't blame the banks

To me this is not a shock at all. Every industry is doing it, it just so happens that the banks are being reviewed right now. I would challenge anybody to show me one industry that is not employing outsourcing it at a pretty significant level. I am in the software industry and this is the norm. Try calling any support company and see if you get an American to help you. Then ask yourself, is this happening only at the lowest levels?

[eilen]

17. we haven't bailed out the software industry nt.

[defendandprotect]

22. Well, you can certainly blame our system of corrupt capitalism . . . greed . . .

and the desire to break our salaries here in America --

That's what this is all about --

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Take public money, get public scrutiny

They are doing this not with their money, but with our money. When you become a beggar, you lose much of your autonomy. Ask any beggar.

[Christa]

19. 12 years ago, my husband was recruited and we came here

he has a H1B1 visa (which was created by Bush sr (http://www.murthy.com/news/n_viaopt.html) as a specialist visa.

The company who recruited him had to provide evidence that they could not find a suitable US citizen to fill the position. They had to provide newspaper as well as computer ads for the six months before his appointment, and had to prove that no suitable US citizen applied.

[conspirator]

24. I have seen a documentary that showed how that evidence is easy to circumvent

Greed companies can easily rig the law.

[InkAddict]

50. Yes, indeed.

I now know that there are no qualified IT workers, no American office nurses nor even ballroom dance instructors.

I know that because as a back-office worker, I was coerced into writing their letters to their immigration lawyers. The nurse came from a rich foreign family that had servants at home and could not be bothered with cleaning up in the corporate breakroom. Her family ran a nurse recruitment company that specifically sent nurses here. The nurse lived with a relative already here, hence no housing expense and was also able to grab American school loan $$ to reach higher certification. While the rest of us vacationed using accrued hours little by little so patient care would not be compromised, the nurse went "home" at least twice for six-week mega-vacations (that way she got better airline prices???)while the other nurses pulled her load.

The dancers were Italian and Eastern European. Now, come on, there's no American dancers qualified to privately teach the $60 hr waltz? or just none that would give up $50 of that fee to the studio which provides only some of the travel and finery one see's at competitions and then they go back to the cheap apartments they can afford on what's left of their earnings or are given accommodations in American homes because they "enrich" the lives of the bored American? Meanwhile, the studio hopefully gains wide exposure and fame as the home of the "winning" exotic-speaking dance couples.

As recently as December, my IT spouse efforts were rejected in favor of consultants from an outsourcing firm. He has never made the salary noted by the OP--the closest being some Y2K work. He's had just about as many "gigs" (one could hardly call them career opportunities) as there have been years since 1984 and has had only about three "gigs" that one could actually say he had "annual" earnings--these spots have been in defense, banking, insurance, and energy -- THEY'RE ALL DOING IT, from the lowest small business to the corporate giants, and it MUST STOP!

[sledgehammer]

28. H-1s have been around since the 1950s...

...and the H-1B is just a categorization of the H-1 that was done around 1990 (to separate between medical and non-medical H-1s I think).

I'm also an H-1Ber. I studied here on a student visa and was recruited competitively out of college i.e. the employer interviewed me in the same pool as everyone else, and did not know I needed an H-1 until after they gave me the offer.

I am a supporter of the H-1 program. But it has been abused a lot, especially in the IT sector. The biggest injustice has been paying H-1Bers significantly less, which has happened in a lot of cases and is illegal. Estimates of abuse are in the 20-30% range. There are easy ways to end the abuse but yet preserve the program and make it more adaptable to prevailing environments.

I'm well aware of the labor certification / PERM process since the company had to do it for me about a year or so into my employment. However, it's mostly just a going-through-the-motions process than an earnest effort to find a suitable US citizen. I don't know of a single H-1er who has been asked to leave a company because a competent US citizen was found to take his/her spot. The justification to keeping an H-1er can often be very subjective, and the DOL never really challenges it.

[InkAddict]

35. So, when are you planning to become Americans?

Or are you just sucking up?

[varun]

39. It takes many years for an H-1 worker to become a citizen

If the H-1B worker is lucky, his/her emplyer will sponsor them for a green card. This can take 1-6 years. Then, it takes another 5 years to become a citizen.

While on H-1B visa, the worker pays US (Federal and State) taxes, pays medicare and social security taxes.

So no one is "sucking up" - in fact they are usually being exploited.

[Christa]

140. We became Amercian citizens 3 years ago

as soon as we could. We had to wait 5 years for a Green card, and then another 5 years to become citizens - it was speeded up so we could get citizenship 4 years after getting our Green cards.

So, in answer to your question: we are not sucking it up.

[LiberalEsto]

92. Those companies lie all the time

We know an awful lot of American IT workers who have lost their jobs to people with H1-B visas, and been forced to take low-paying retail jobs to survive. My brother-in-law is one of them. The husband one one of my closest friends is another. My friend's nephew was forced to train his Indian replacement, and was then fired. That is adding insult to injury.


I wonder what would happen if the situation were reversed and hundreds of of thousands of Americans moved India and took away the good jobs there, leaving a vast number of Indians unemployed. I'll bet 1) there would be riots, and 2) laws would be passed to prohibit this.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

113. funny you mention Americans in India

In India airline pilots are furious about the hiring of American pilots as direct-entry captains on widebodies while Indian pilots can wait decades to become a widebody captain.

[OhioChick]

121. India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

Expatriate executives making way for local hires


28 Jan 2009, 0503 hrs IST, Sanjeev Choudhary, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI: Expatriate executives, who were the flavour of the season when India was riding high on a 9%-plus growth rate, are now becoming the Job-cuts: A blessing in disguise
Cos that are hiring
first ones to get the pink slip as Indian industry, hit by the slowdown, starts looking within the country for inexpensive hires.

“Many of the expatriate executives, who have been asked to leave, are subject experts. Their value diminishes in a downturn as companies are no more expanding, and thus don’t need people to guide in a new venture,” says K Sudarshan, MD of executive search firm EMA Partners’ India unit.

Since October 2008, there has been a spate of replacements of expat executives with Indian professionals at the senior level.

Aviva Life Insurance appointed former Citibank executive TR Ramachandran to replace Bert Paterson as the CEO for its Indian operations. Insurance firm MetLife replaced its CFO Nick Paket with an Indian hire. And, according to executive search firms, two top expatriate executives of another insurance firm are slated to leave in March, to be replaced by Indians.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms

[conspirator]

23. It's all about fucking the middle class. "High paying jobs" ...

but not as high as they would have to pay americans

[Jambalaya]

104. Wishbone or backbone?

It has often been said that the middle class is the backbone of the American economy.

Well,the backbone is being systematically broken by those whose interests are being furthered by forcing the US workers to grovel on all fours- just as spinal injuries often reduce its unfortunate victims to such indignites for survival.

American workers must understand,one cannot subsitute a wishbone for a backbone.

When the government fears its citizens,one has a democracy.

When the citizens fear its government,one has a tyranny.

[defendandprotect]

26. Lots to be said on this betrayal . . . beginning with Associated Press having

done the "investigation" --

This is a long term story going back decades as capitalism began to break US

salaries -- turning us into "third world America."

This game playing has gone thru every industry . . .

In the case of Engineers, they approached that by greatly increasing the numbers

of engineers produced here in the schools -- and then bringing in foreign workers.


Meanwhile, they've also in every aggressive way possible worked to break unions.

We went from 39% unionization to now less than 9% -- I'm not positive of those

figures, but last I heard on it.


As we all began to understand how valuable nurses are to preventive health and

general health and the running of hospitals -- and at the time with very mediocre

salaries in comparison to doctors -- they were also attacked. As far as I can see,

wherever nurses are needed, they are understaffed and underpaid.

Again -- all of this has been going on for decades!!


I'm not quite sure of all they have done to break

[Jambalaya]

94. Began with Reagan

IMHO, much of this timeline can be directly linked to after VietNam and the Iran Contra affair involving stealing the election for Ronald Reagan.

At one time,Regan was a Democrat,and President of the actors union ,believe it or not.

When he was installed as President,one of his firs acts was to dismantle workers rights via the Air Traffics Controllers strike.

The dissolution of labor and the dissolution of democratic government has been the intended goal of these NeoCONS ever since.

IF they have government so much,why would they want to be in office? To gain entree to "finish off" the victim by bleeding its treasure and citizenry?

[Jambalaya]

96. Mea Culpa

Pardon,I MUST employ the spell check before submitting.

The last sentence should have said..."IF they HATE government..."

[defendandprotect]

123. Well .... yes . . . but Taft Hartley before Reagan . .. done on Truman's watch--!!

Glad you agree they've been stealing elections since before 2000 --

I'm looking back at the Nixon/Humphrey election and thinking that was also stolen.

See: http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Two investigators were tracking these steals back in the 1960's . . .

They say that after the attack on Reagan, Bush actually became president-!

Agree --- they want everyone's last penny --

And they sure have bankrupted the Treasury!!

We need to see prosecutions -- not bailouts for corrupt capitalism!

[Jambalaya]

97. Repub President Eisenhower's Warning re: Corporatocracy

Military-industrial complex - SourceWatch Jan 7, 2009 ... In his speech, Eisenhower said that "The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced ... 6 - United Technologies Corporation $3.6 billion ...
www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Military-industrial_complex - 55k - Cached - Similar pages

Digg - Eisenhower's Prescient Message: The Military Industrial Complex The only solution is to put corporations under tighter controls. ..... Someone posted that Eisenhower's speech may not be as anti-war as people make it seem ...
digg.com/political_opinion/Eisenhower_s_Prescient_Message_The_Military_Industrial_Complex?FC=PRCK1 - 77k - Cached - Similar pages

Capital Budgeting for Economic Growth: Eisenhower's National ... Jan 27, 2006 ... Eisenhower's speech created a tremendous stir among the Governors. .... "For these purposes, the Corporation would issue bonds in an amount ...
www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/3305ike_hiway_act.html - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

[defendandprotect]

124. We're now a bankrupted "Superpower" . . . and "third world America" thanks to GOP -- !!!

[AzDar]

27. I am unapologetically an America-First! type of girl.

No more race to the bottom...

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Stop Whining

If you weren't smart enough to be born rich, then you deserve what you get.

(:sarcasm:)

[L0oniX]

45. Again ...tax the ever luv'n f*ck out of companies that out source jobs and...

give huge tax breaks to all companies that don't. WTF is the problem with f*cking people? Keep the mother F*cking jobs here, damn it all to hell! If we are all out of a job who the hell is going to be left to buy shit from all these assholes who are out sourcing our jobs? We need to fight this ...NOW ...or we will be living 10 to a house and be happy to get a job working for minimum wage!

Oh yea ....f*ck the WTO.

[Triana]

51. this sh*t needs to STOP NOW...and the money they took ought to be paid back

to the taxpayers.

[denin39]

52. Banks sought foreign workers

Banks are corporations. Some good insight into how corporations are run can be found in a couple of paperbacks:

I have read Part II, 6. "The Corporation Will Eat Your Soul" in the book below and it is very insightful.

America, Fascism, and God
Sermons from a Heretical Preacher
by Davidson Loehr


This book is referenced in the above book, and I found it good too.
The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power
by Joel Bakan

Of course, a corporation could be run by someone with a soul, but it would be the target of the souless ones and their investors of like mind.

Particularly chilling is the corporation attitude that fines for law violations are merely a cost of doing business. And that human health and life itself of customers and employees has a finite money value in a "trade off cost analysis".

[Waiting For Everyman]

54. MUST READ: HOW CITIBANK ENABLED OFFSHORING STATE JOBS OF 42 STATES.

This was for FOOD STAMP CALL CENTERS. What could be more perverse than that? The study names the companies involved in it. (I'd copy the list and excerpts for you, but it's a PDF file.)

http://www.washtech.org/reports/TaxDollarsAtWork/offshoring_execsum_finalpdf.pdf

These banks have been cutting our throats in every way possible. It's not just IT jobs, it's local customer service which has almost disappeared here now. Next summer, my gas company is offshoring the small office here to Manila... geez, it's only about 10 people anyway. What is the point of that?

[Jambalaya]

75. Saudis in the Citi

Political Friendster - HRH Prince Alwaleed bin Talal - Connections CitiGroup.

Prince Alawaleed Bin Talal owns a stake of more than 9 billion U$D ...

Prince Alaweed bin Talal has over 932 million U$D invested in CNN's parent ...
www.politicalfriendster.com/showPerson.php?id=4495&name=HRH-Prince-Alwaleed-bin-Talal_______________________________


Check out the holdings in communications industry,in particular.

The Saudi took advantage of the last looting of the American Treasury,in late '80's under Poppy Bush.

The BCCI/S&L sc/junk bond fiasco cost the US over a trillion $$.The bank stocks were gobbled up at pennies on the dollar by the Saudis.

This is round II.

leveymg did a whole series of journals here on BCCI,Safari Club, and the looting of America during Bush regimes.

First class reports,with links and citations galore.

[Jambalaya]

81. Bush ,Bandar,and BCCI

We know, but it's good to be reminded of the original reports, every now and then. K&R
Posted by leveymg in General Discussion

Tue Jul 22nd 2008, 08:38 AM
REPLY TO POST: http://www.random-abstract.com/archives/00...
There's a wealth of detail here that's worth reconnecting with what we've learned since. For instance, it wasn't revealed until recent years that then CIA Director George H.W. Bush made a political deal in mid-1976 with the head of Saudi external intelligence, Prince Turki al-Faisal, to allow the Saudis to finance and run the sort of covert operations that the Democratic Congress banned after the Church Committee hearings. That deal with code-named, Safari Club. BCCI was the funding vehicle for that illegal operation. See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/...

The result was a series of massive financial rip-offs, development of a Saudi paramilitary capability that became al-Qaeda, and the AQ Khan nuclear network, all of which the Bush wing of the CIA quietly facilitated. The Safari Club was also the start of Saudi penetration of the US political and banking systems, and huge support of the GOP.

What's useful is to look at the details of old news reports, since the corporate media used to actually report a lot of useful details. For instance, after he was fired as CIA Director by President Carter in early 1977, Bush was appointed Director of Houston-based First International Bankshares, owned in part by Joe Allbriton, with foreign offices in London and Luxembourg. BCCI had its major offices in the same locations. After Bush became VP, Allbriton sold out his shares in First Interbank to his crony, Jim Baker III, who owned Republic Bank. The merger went bankrupt a few years later, which became the largest financial bail-out in US history. That set the model for the S&L rip-off, which was also centered in Southwest bank chains in whch BCCI and the Bush clan had a vested interest. Allbriton went on to buy DC-based Riggs Bank, that along with UBS and other BCCI-linked banks, dispersed much of the funds held in diplomatic accounts by the Saudi Embassy in the name of the wife of Prince Bandar (an old friend of the Bush family) to support al-Qaeda cell members in the U.S. who attacked the US on 9/11. It's a small world, after all.

[Waiting For Everyman]

82. For the roots of the banking ripoffs, there's a terrific old book.

It's called In Banks We Trust by Penny Lernoux. It's very readable too, a "page-turner". :)

It reveals a LOT of stuff about the interconnections among the financial gangsters, including their covert connections and moneylaundering operations - as you said, a lot of things used to be "news" which aren't now, and a lot came out because of scandals and investigations that were done then. For instance, who remembers Silverado Bank, and W's brother's involvement in that?

Frankly, I think a lot of this "bubblizing" is to create enough digital cash to cover the black market's profits in the banks which laundered them. It's a massive invisible economy of its own - off the books.

I'll tell you who knows "where the bodies are buried", and that's John Kerry. I still have some of his hearings on BCCI etc. on VHS tape.

[Jambalaya]

93. DING...DING...DING

Indeed,Silverado S&L involved Neil Bush .

It is incomprehensible how the very blueprint for the looting of this country BY THE SAME CAST OF CHRACTERS has gone unnoticed and UNDERREPORTED on the blogs-at least!

Thank you for your reply.I wil check oit out onj Amazon.

Incidentally,once again,PLEASE go to leveymg Journals here. The depth and breadth of the info on the blueprint for what is going on now is ASTONISHING.

The BCCI was a front for covert laundering of international money with the complicity of the CIA. Its a WHOLE lot more complicated than that.

And when you stop and think this was only 20 years ago-is this ignorance or indifference?

Yes, Kery knows where lots of bodies are buried-even some still unburied ones in SE Asia and Saudi Arabia.

[kcass1954]

102. Don't forget Jebbie and Broward Federal. n/t

[Jambalaya]

105. The Jebster

Interesting you should bring that up.

I was just rereading yesterday ,over at epluribusmedia,an EXCELLENT series of articles on the deceased Mike Connell.

Remember the GOP wunderkind who was responsible f the rerouting of GOP votes to Tennesseein the 2000 and 2004 Ohio elections?Bad business there-he couldn't be counted on to come for Christmas-his plane crashed
.
Just before testifying to Feds about Ohio voting irregularities.I digress.

Anyhoo, Connell set up websites for Jeb,and even hawked Tees shirts and mugs on website named after Jeb.

[Jambalaya]

109. Connell,Rove, and the GOP boys

Wired Connections

Although GovTech Solutions in 2001 represented his non-partisan face, Connell, the partisan, has been connected to the National GOP since 1987 when he campaigned for George H.W. Bush. As Jeb Bush ran for governor of Florida, Connell's affiliations extended into Florida's political network. This was perhaps directly the result, first advertised in PR on New Media's website in 1998, of his alliance (turned business partnership) with the principals of DCI Group. 7

At the time, DCI was (and it still is) a very successful grassroots telemarketing and lobbying company that ran all the major black-bag operations for the Republican Party. Under Bush, it has become the White House's external political arm8
In 1998 Connell also created jeb.org which helped elect Jeb Bush governor of Florida. Running the website that elects the Governor provides entrée for getting contract jobs all over state government. Following the election, Connell’s company received multiple contracts to develop and manage websites for Florida state agencies. Our research identified four state technology jobs done by Mike Connell:

Florida Executive Office of the Governor
Florida State Board of Administration
Florida Departmet of Education - Public Schools Reports
Florida Department of Community Affairs
These sites were under Connell's active development while, simultaneously, he was working on development and update of a slew of GOP and GOP candidate sites. He was also introducing the RNC's army of operatives to the eGOP Project.

Crony Connectivity or Political Affiliations throughout Florida GOP and State Government

Not only was Connell plugged into the government servers, he was also connected to powerful political and business individuals.

Mike Connell's Florida political affiliations are important since they provided touchpoints for him, as the RNC's Internet guru, to the State of Florida IT networks distinct from his access through state contract work. The following list provides just a brief overview of some of the points of connection that Connell had with key players.

Lobbyists for Global Election Systems, Inc.(aka Diebold) and ES&S During 2001, Mike Connell's New Media was engaged with two lobbying firms who came to represent the most famous voting machine manufacturers' interests.

Beginning with the registration in March 2001 after the Florida legislature took up debate of the need to replace voting systems in the State, four of Tidewater's principals advocated for Global Election Systems (bought by and renamed Diebold). Connell's company website listed New Media contact information being the same as Tidewater Consulting's until the end of 2001.

GOPWear.com partner, Bush for President County Chair, Secretary of Department of Business and Professional Regulation Connell formed a business partnership with husband and wife team Rick Seyer and Kim Binkley-Seyer to sell Jeb-labelled clothing on Jebwear.com. That partnership, incorporated as GOPWear.com, dissolved when Gov. Bush named Binkley-Seyer to head the Department of Business and Professional Regulation. From that position, she ultimately resigned under fire for having awarded and executed on a very large Accenture contract negotiated by CIO Roy Cales outsourcing online licensing processes.

During December 1999, Binkley-Seyer and her husband Rick had been named as Sarasota County chairs of the Bush for President campaign.


Connell,Rove and the GOP boys,epluribusmedia

[Jambalaya]

112. Shadow Government

Obama Should Worry About the Bush Family Tentacles Undermining His ... Wasn't there a recent report that Jeb Bush had suggested creating a "shadow government"? Not a new idea for this family I see. ...
www.alternet.org/story/.../obama_should_worry_about_the_bush_family_tentacles_undermining_his_plans/?... - 187k - 16 hours ago

[OhioChick]

55. Fuck them!

I knew this was happening with banks/IT long ago.

They're given my tax payer dollars and hire foreign workers to take jobs that me or one of my colleagues could do.

There had better be some damn good stipulations this time around with this stimulus package. I want to see that "Change" that I heard so much about.

[antimatter98]

64. If Obama and Congress don't stop this, we need to march in DC. n/t

[Azlady]

72. Agree n/t

[Baby Snooks]

73. "Of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation..."

We are being played for fools by Congress. Congress knows all of this. Congress just hopes we don't notice. It's kind of hard not to notice.

[Aviation Pro]

74. Because our banks are owned by foreigners.....

...where do you think the bailout money went?

[Waiting For Everyman]

79. So they wreck the job market, while at the same time taking our homes.

(See the link I posted just above: The banks got huge subcontracts from all kinds of businesses, as sort of an employment agency, which they then turned around and offshored while hiding that fact with their own name on the contract - even a major chunk of government jobs went that way.)

Without a job we can't pay the mortgage, so the bank gets that too.

(Oh and then, without an address, you can't get another job - the corporatists stick together on that.)

Oh, but they're the innocent "good guys". :sarcasm: We "deadbeat" homeowners are the cause of it all.

It's time for the tar, feathers, pitchforks, national strikes... and nationalizing those SOBs. If not now, when? And they'll never act any different.

[Jambalaya]

115. Casino Capitalism

I have LONG contended that the alleged subprime meltdown involving homeowner mortgages was not about the actual homes. It was about the LAND .

Now this is conjecture on my part, but is it not BEYOND belief that so any of the subprime mortagages that were bundled and sold to foreign investors just happened to be in redlined communities?

WHY does the government REFUSES to disclose how much of the bailout money will be apportioned and to whom?

Has much of the land in this country been willingly mortgaged as debt to foreign investors as collateral for Casino Capitalism?

And if one wants to conjecture further,have not Dept of Interior holdings of public land theoretically have been used as security to cover the interest on foreign debtors?

[Piewhacket]

88. oooooo when do the lynchings start?

[Jambalaya]

98. Republican Rope

A capitalist will sell you the rope with which he intends to hang you.

[wundermaus]

91. Shocking! Shocking!

NOT! We STILL don't get it, do we?
Our Democracy has been taken over by the Fascism.
Repeat after me:
"Arbeit macht frei"
"Arbeit macht frei"
"Arbeit macht frei"
"Arbeit macht frei"
"Arbeit macht frei"
(Americans are such COWS)

[lonestarnot]

103. Worst.

[NoodleyAppendage]

106. Maybe we should add "American" to employee hiring discrimination laws? n/t

J

[bkkyosemite]

110. As I said in a couple of other threads on this forum something smells these layoffs were not because

these companies needed to lay off. It is because we are being screwed and they are hiring third world persons to do our jobs. This way they do not have the same controls they must abide by with regards to U.S. workers.

This is a sham. We are being put in a position of a slave class that when finally are offered one of those jobs that the foreigners are getting we will be eager to OBEY!!!!

This must be kicked to the main stream media, to Obama, to the legislators, we must make big noise about this and it must be investigated as so many other things must be investigated. If there are thousands of us (just like when we sign a petition) calling, faxing, angry and doing everything to get our message acrossed that it is "ENOUGH" this time "ENOUGH" must be the message heard.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

114. Okay, which banks did this? nt

[bkkyosemite]

116. So what are we gonna do about this? Any suggestions of real action?

[Deja Q]

118. We elected Obama to represent us. Let's see what he does.

So far, so good - he has openly shamed the greedy little sods for what they have done.

[bkkyosemite]

119. Yes he shamed them. But what else will happen to the thieves. Probably nothing unless we speak out

in unison as someone else here stated. They have no punishment as of yet. Obama wants our input on how we feel and we need to let him no in no uncertain terms. Another thing, he shamed them but they are not ashamed.

[Deja Q]

117. It never ends.

[OnionPatch]

120. I'm so sick of these traitors who will screw us with our own tax dollars!

First I watched my job in the steel mill disappear to Japan. The only training I was offered was to be a "hairsylist." Thanks, but no thanks. They would give me nothing at all toward a conventional college education so I paid to retrain myself for an IT position. Now I'm watching all those jobs go to cheap foreign labor. I'm going to be 50 on my next birthday. I wonder what career I can train for now that will gladly hire a 50+ year old woman new to the field. :shrug:

If something isn't done about the theft of our jobs, our economy is toast. They are killing the goose who laid the golden egg....aka The Consumer Base. I'm getting to the point where this is the only issue that means a thing to me anymore. If our Democratic congress and president can't stop this, they aren't worth the paper we used to vote them in on.

[myrna minx]

131. K&R and

:grr:

[Optimistic]

132. The time has come to Nationalize all Corporations

We need to ban foreign workers Now, Today. Tell all Corporations they must manufacture all their goods here in the USA and all workers must be Americans unless they are willing to pay a 90% tax on all revenues

[tominde]

141. You are misinformed

I am amazed how many of the responses to this message are uninformed. By-in-large, this is not foreign workers stealing jobs from Americans because they work for less. Look at the average salary - $91,000!!! These are high skilled mathematical, statistical, and analyst jobs. There are not being outsourced. These are foreign workers trained in the US to do these jobs. They work in the U.S and they pay taxes here. They require MS or PhD in Statistics, Operations Research, Mathematics or Economics, and they have background in SAS. The reason they hire foreign workers is because not enough American citizens have these skills. I know because I train students to in these fields and we cannot get U.S. citizens to enter in these fields. Look at the average salary - $91k. These are not entry positions or loan officers. These are high skill positions. Most of the posts here are misinformed. The banks would much rather hire citizens in there were enough qualified workers.
Don't you think before you rant you should get the facts? I understand people's frustrations with what is going on, and there is lots to criticize the financial industry, but this article is baiting the debate.

[Why Syzygy]

135. rec. You call 'em traitors.

They appear as Lord and Masters.

I hear Obama is pushing big for more money to LOAN. Wonder what those interest rates are going to look like. I, for one, do not intend to take on ANY additional debt. What a horrific idea in light of what we now know. It looks like another trap to me. I'm sure Mr. President believes it is in our best interest. But as for everything else in my life, I want some solid proof.

This also provides ample insight into why the last plea Bush made as he left DC was for IMMIGRANTS!

[tominde]

142. This is misleading

Many of the responses to this message are uninformed. By-in-large, this is not foreign workers stealing jobs from Americans because they work for less. Look at the average salary - $91,000!!! These are high skilled mathematical, statistical, and analyst jobs. There are not being outsourced. These are foreign workers trained in the US to do these jobs. They work in the U.S and they pay taxes here. They require MS or PhD in Statistics, Operations Research, Mathematics or Economics, and they have background in SAS. The reason Banks hire many of these foreign workers is because not enough American citizens have these skills. I know because I train students to in these areas and we cannot get U.S. citizens to enter in these fields. Look at the average salary - $91k. These are not entry positions or loan officers. These are high skill positions. Most of the posts here are misinformed. The banks would much rather hire citizens in there were enough qualified workers.
Don't you think before you rant you should get the facts? I understand people's frustrations with what is going on, and there is lots to criticize the financial industry, but this article is baiting the debate.