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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 04:26 PM
Original message
Bolivians Approve Morales’s New Constitution With 61.4% of Vote
Source: Bloomberg

Bolivians Approve Morales’s New Constitution With 61.4% of Vote
By Jonathan J. Levin

Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Bolivia’s National Electoral Court said 61.4 percent of Bolivians approved a new constitution spearheaded by President Evo Morales in a Jan. 25 nationwide referendum.

The court released the official tally today on its Web site. Exit polls conducted by Bolivian television networks ATB, PAT and Universal de Television predicted the measure would win with about 60 percent support.

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aU8_I1pxO4Qk&refer=latin_america



Bolivian constitution passes with 61.4 per cent of vote
Americas News

Feb 2, 2009, 19:10 GMT

La Paz - Bolivia's new constitution passed with 61.4 per cent of the votes in favour, according to the final official count of referendum ballots released by the country's electoral authorities on Monday.

The measure received 2.06 million votes, with close to 1.3 million votes (38.6 per cent of the total) against the proposed text.

The abstention rate was 9.74 per cent, the lowest in Bolivia in the past 25 years.

President Evo Morales - who campaigned in favour of the new constitution - was set to sign it into force Saturday in El Alto, a city close to La Paz that is a stronghold of the left-wing president.

The new constitution gives more rights to Bolivia's indigenous majority and expands government control over the economy. It would also allow the president to run for a second five-year term.

More:
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1457219.php/Bolivian_constitution_passes_with_61.4_per_cent_of_vote_
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. "MORE rights to Bolivia's indigenous majority"? That is misleading. EQUAL rights
is what the Constitution established for Bolivia's indigenous majority--which has suffered slavery, serfdom, land theft, segregation, brutal bigotry, gross violations of human rights and exclusion from political power for a couple of hundred years, at the hands of the rich white minority, including bigotry, servitude, exclusion, impoverishment and death RECENTLY--for instance, the machine-gunning of some 30 unarmed indigenous farmers this last September, in a white separatist coup attempt funded and organized out of the U.S. (Bushwhack) embassy.

"The new constitution gives more rights to Bolivia's indigenous majority..." --M & C

You may be getting "more" rights, if your starting condition is as described above--with your life not meaning shit to white separatists, unless they can exploit you--but it is misleading to describe the new Constitution this way in Bolivia's context. It does NOT put one group, or one type of person, above another. It asserts equality--as well as Bolivians' equal rights to the basic necessities of life, to own land and farm it, and to benefit from Bolivia's commonly owned natural resources.

The new Constitution is an amazing accomplishment of the people of Bolivia, and of Evo Morales' government--against the continual hostility and aggression of the Bush junta and its white separatist Bolivian allies. It is also a victory for South American unity, in fending off US interference. Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Venezuela--and their new 'common market' UNASUR--gave the Morales government important support at critical moments, to insure the integrity of Bolivia's borders, the survival of the lawful government and this peaceful transition to equal rights and social justice by democratic means. All of this bodes well for their unified resistance to attacks on even juicier oil targets like Venezuela, and for the future of South America, as a potential powerhouse economic block with the focus on social justice, if they stick together.
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martha thacker Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. South America is moving ahead of
North America in human rights. Gov. Paterson of NY is persecuting Native Americans in his state. According to mohawknationnews. I questioned if he were truly progressive after reading about his unkind treatment to Native Americans. After his selection of Hillary's replacement....it is evident he is a Clinton democrat/republican lite. Anyway, I am happy for those in South America who are becoming stronger and better every day.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Welcome to DU, martha thacker.
:)
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. Welcome to DU. Could you provide a link for our edification?
I'm interested in the details of the story of mohawknationnews.

Thanks
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Good Catch (nt)
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nerddem Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. well if you read the part about communal justice, then it is more
apart from the standard national system of justice, he's allowing communities to resort to their own forms of justice, which in a lot of rural towns is lynching.

so his base gets two forms of justice, while bolivians of more european descent or those in cities get just one. that's equal?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. You need to spend some time getting the information you need to have about Bolivia.
DU'ers who've been following events there are only too intensely aware of what has been happening there, and it sure as hell hasn't been those mean old Indians picking on your lovable, cuddly blinding white Europeans.

Jesus Christ Almighty.

Do your homework first, THEN give everyone the benefit of your deep thoughts.
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nerddem Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. always do!
Edited on Tue Feb-03-09 08:15 AM by nerddem
especially with all the hubbub leading up to it when i was there a month ago

and i guess you mean my indian side picking on my european side? oh, the inner roadblocks!
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Localism
(vs. universalism aka imperialist homogenicing globalism) is in itself ethical, the very basis of all ethics - meaning originally following the local customs (of a Greek city state).

As for Bolivian local (native) communities, my understanding is that the constitution guarantees the communities to practice autonomy according to traditional local ways and culture, not only under the boot of hierarchic central governement created by and of practices imported by European imperialists and their culture and ideology.

It is very strange idea that all local cultures - and individuals, for that matter - would only benefit from homogenicing oppression from the central authority. Not even your own founding fathers believed in the superior wisdom of central authority over the local communities, quite the contrary, in fact.

Yes, a small local community can go mad and act very stupidly, but so can also larger entities, with far more wider consequenses. Capitalistic and technocratic globalism is insanity spreading insanity through various styles of imperialism and will end very very uglily, unless we can stop it yesterday and (re)learn better and more balanced ways of life. Locally, to begin with.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Even a venomous anti-indigenous article like this one in the L.A. Times
acknowledges that capital punishment is outlawed in Bolivia, by the new Constitution:

"The constitution does not sanction violence or the death penalty. In fact, it upholds the right to life. But it guarantees indigenous communities the right to exercise 'their principles, cultural values, norms and their own procedures.' The constitution says their legal processes cannot be overturned by traditional courts."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bolivia-justice1-2009feb01,0,1847850.story

Why do I call it venomous? Because the article highlights a couple of lynchings in rural communities that have been neglected and lack police protection--the community was trying to protect itself--and fails to mention, a) the white separatists' massacre of some 30 unarmed peasants, in Pando, in the Bushwhack-supported fascist coup attempt, this last September--and the widespread fascist rioting and beatings aimed at the indigenous during that coup attempt, and b) the MUCH MORE COMMON beatings, rapes, intimidation and bigotry inflicted by white vigilantes against the indigenous, in general.

The article paints the indigenous as beastly, violent and unlawful--from these few incidents--and warns against indigenous justice, on this basis alone--but completely ignores and fails to mention the much more prevalent beastliness, violence and lawlessness of the white minority.

Yes, lynching is awful and should never be sanctioned--and IS NOT sanctioned by the new Constitution--but you could find plenty of incidents of beastliness, violence and lawlessness on our own "mean streets," in our own prisons, and routinely sanctioned by the President of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and other prisons, and on the streets of Baghdad, by people who are supposed to be "civilized"--not to mention the slaughter of one million innocent people in Iraq, to get their oil, and the on-going slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan for no discernible reason--by both Bush and Obama.

Focus is all. Are you going to focus on a few instances of lawlessness in Bolivia, and indict a whole system of justice that does not sanction lynching--and has served indigenous communities for thousands of years?

That is venomous--more than unfair, more than biased; it is ill-intentioned. But even this ill-intentioned article has to acknowledge that the new Constitution would not make lynching legal. In fact, the new Constitution will likely help to prevent such crimes.

----

Here is a more objective source on the content and likely impact of the new Constitution, as to justice systems:

"Another key gain is the inclusion of indigenous community justice into the judicial system, which Bolivians widely perceive as being incapable of guaranteeing justice to the majority of citizens, particularly those in rural areas. Bolivia’s indigenous communities argue that they can administer justice themselves, according to traditional communal practices.

Anthropologist Daniel Goldstein, director of the Center for Latin American Studies at Rutgers University, explains that community justice — as practiced in Andean communities — stresses 'reconciliation over punishment' and seeks to 're-educate the offender who violates the rules or norms of the community, so that he or she can be reincorporated as a community member.'

The new constitution incorporates indigenous justice as a special jurisdiction that will apply only within indigenous communities, not outsiders, and it must not contradict the rights established in the constitution."


http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/4097/morales_remakes_bolivia/

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. You found a way to address the situation with thoughtulness, and reasoning.
Your patience and respect for dealing with discussion are unequaled.

The only thing I could think of after seeing an earlier reference to someone's portrayal of native Bolivians as crude, stupid, violent thugs was anger, more anger, paralysis, and resignation. I felt it was too large a job, too enormous a task trying to encourage someone so clearly prejuidiced and misinformed to look deeper, take time LEARNING.

Who on earth could overlook the HISTORY of what has happened in Bolivia and cling to some grotesque misrepresentation of the population if he had any grasp at all. In the run-up to the last referendum, starting well before the event, indigenous Bolivians were publicly stripped of their clothing, forced to crawl, then to publicly repudiate Evo Morales, battered, kicked, when they attempted to walk through a city to see Evo Morales speaking.

We posted, read, discussed these events here, as well as the murder of an indigenous person inside a state radio station, instead of the shock trooper "Youth Group" monsters who stormed into indigenous neighborhoods carrying clubs with spikes on them, to better their chances in increasing the suffering of their victims, dealing out greater terror, hoping to intimidate and finally silence their countrymen for good.

The massacre in Pando in September was something NO ONE WITH A CONSCIENCE would DARE to sweep under the rug in his rush to smear the victims of all this murderous hatred. Unforgiveable.

I'm going to re-read your comments. It's important not only to open to the actual information, but also to start trying to feel your great spirit in dealing with others is something we can hope to learn, ourselves. It's not a weakness to be civilized, and honest, and respectful, clearly. It's probably the hardest lesson in a reactionary, self-obsessed world to learn.
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nerddem Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. admittedly
i didn't cite anything, but quite frankly i'm not going to dedicate more time doing research for a blog comment than for research papers that are more important to my life right now. judi and i disagree on evo and chavez, although i haven't seen her post anything on the latter in awhile, though it's certainly possible i just overlooked the name and i've also been on du a lot less since the primaries made this place more treacherous than an abandoned minefield in africa.

besides, we both know that true objective reporting is impossible, that as long as a human being is writing something they'll put their spin on it, intentionally or not. so even if i did meticulously search around for articles of video clips from bolivia itself some people would say, "wah, corporate media," or conversely there's always the possibility of citing a news source that's a shill for the government, like evo's new newspaper. me, personally, i give as much credence to the la times as i do the washington times, so of course i'm not going to accept their characterization of the indigenous in that light, as i then would be characterizing myself that way, as i'm certainly one of the least violent people i know.

i can best just cite myself and my family: conversations we overhear on the minibus, on the streets, news from different outlets (left and right, state-sponsored and independent, etc). there was a period of time when the ongoing conflict kept escalating and escalating, until the brink of civil war. american airlines even stopped flying in or out for awhile. it got to this ridiculous tautological point where the cambas would get violent on us collas because we were getting violent on them, and on and on it went like the israelis and palestinians that attacked each other because of retaliation to retaliation to retaliation. at some point there was also a marked increase in the reports of rural lynchings--not unwarranted in their quest for justice, but unwarranted in their results of burnings, mutilations, and all-too-often death.

constitutions, like any written work can be as pretty as the beholder deems it, but lets you and i be more realistic about them, as well, that what they say isn't usually how any given state is actually run. of course the article acknowledges the new cpe doesn't make lynching legal, just like a foreign news report on american reconstruction would have acknowledged that legally, newly freed slaves were accorded protections under the law, but we know how that went. i agree that focus is all, and i'm going to approach this constitution, as all of them should be, by extrapolating worst-case-scenarios based on how people may follow the spirit, rather than the letter, of the law (or often neither). the vast bulk of it is good, in my opinion, but there are a few clauses that trouble me, none more than the communal justice one. here's a raw copy and paste, so that you can translate according to your own bias and interpretation.

CAPÍTULO CUARTO
JURISDICCIÓN INDÍGENA ORIGINARIA CAMPESINA
Artículo 191
I. Las naciones y pueblos indígena originario campesinos ejercerán sus funciones jurisdiccionales y
de competencia a través de sus autoridades, y aplicarán sus principios, valores culturales, normas y
procedimientos propios.
II. La jurisdicción indígena originaria campesina respeta el derecho a la vida y los derechos
establecidos en la presente Constitución.
Artículo 192
La jurisdicción indígena originario campesina conocerá todo tipo de relaciones jurídicas, así como
actos y hechos que vulneren bienes jurídicos realizados dentro del ámbito territorial indígena originario
campesino. La jurisdicción indígena originario campesina decidirá en forma definitiva. Sus decisiones
no podrán ser revisadas por la jurisdicción ordinaria ni por la agroambiental y ejecutará sus
resoluciones en forma directa.
Artículo 193
I. Toda autoridad pública o persona acatará las decisiones de la jurisdicción indígena originaria
campesina.
II. Para el cumplimiento de las decisiones de la jurisdicción indígena originario campesina, sus
autoridades podrán solicitar el apoyo del Estado.

so here we have a justice system whose "principles, cultural values, norms and procedures" are left entirely to the discretion of each group. so the troubling aspect is the lack of oversight on the indigenous judicial system, in that it will "decide in a definitive form," going on to say that "its decisions will not be able to be reviewed by the ordinary judicial system, nor by the agroenvironmental system." finally, it says that the indigenous system can get help from the state in having its decisions enforced, a state without a mechanism to review said decisions.

so my big concern is the actual practice of due process and the lack of judicial review, but on a more general level, is the correct answer to a long history of injustice, disenfranchisement, and exclusion to create separate but equal institutions? even then it's not fully fair as this doesn't just place the indigenous into a coterminous judicial system, but one that further breaks off just the rural population.

so speaking of double standards, i just went and put more effort into this than i originally wanted to, but my colonizing european side is proverbially forcing my indigenous side to work in the proverbial mines that are my real-life stat exam tomorrow.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. The only meaningful statements in your entire rambling message:
Edited on Wed Feb-04-09 02:31 AM by ronnie624
- "admittedly i didn't cite anything, but quite frankly i'm not going to dedicate more time doing research"

- "i can best just cite myself and my family: conversations we overhear"


Utterly useless. Please do your research, and return with something other than hearsay and digressive blather.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Gotta give you a big "amen," ronnie. I was concerned I'd had a stroke, attempting to grapple
that post, as it made no sense whatsoever to me. Maybe it was in code.

Thanks for stepping forward!

http://bush2004.org.nyud.net:8090/images/bush_halo.gif

Praise the lord.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am happy for the people of Bolivia, especially the indigenous people.
Now can America begin to treat our indigenous people right? Learn a good lesson, USA.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Now can America begin to treat our indigenous people right?
Oh tell me, American. Do you support the legal claims, based on treaties, of recognizing the independence of those Indian nations that claim it and giving back their land?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I would expect it to be on our country's agenda, if there were enough Native Americans
left here to insist upon it, and/or allies in non-native communities, to bring about some settling of the matter. And I would expect, also, as is the case in Bolivia--where the indigenous are the majority--for Native Americans to seek a fair and just settlement that takes current peoples, economies and long-standing ownerships and arrangements into consideration. The indigenous in Bolivia are not doing ANYTHING, or planning anything, nor have they put anything into the new Constitution, that is greatly disruptive or confiscatory. It is a very wise and just Constitution. And I have seen no evidence at all that it will--or is intended to--harm anyone, and much evidence that it will benefit everyone. Maybe some people won't be able to get filthy rich by acquiring vast holdings, while millions of small farmers are displaced from the land. But even those with avaricious hearts will benefit from living in a society based on social justice that insures a decent living for everyone, and prosperity overall. Societies with vast poverty are unstable and dangerous, and in the end can only be held together by brutal treatment of the poor. This is good for no one. And if you can adjust society, peacefully and democratically, to eliminate the vast poverty, spread the wealth more evenly, get productive land into food production, use resources for everyone's benefit, and establish equality and dignity for all people, you have accomplished a very great thing, indeed. If you look at what happened in Russia in the 1910s, and in China in the 1940s, you see what can occur when society becomes so lopsided, when a few have vast wealth and millions have absolutely nothing. Violence is virtually inevitable. Turmoil, war, mass death, mass dislocations--and in both of those cases, the rise of further tyrannies. How much better to prevent such horrors with peaceful change!

Perhaps I have misunderstood you. You wrote, "Oh tell me, American. Do you support the legal claims, based on treaties, of recognizing the independence of those Indian nations that claim it and giving back their land?" I'm not sure if you mean this sarcastically--like, we would NEVER do this; or, yeah you want this for Bolivia but no here. Well, it would be fine with me, if we could get it together--to reach a settlement that was fair and just, and not too disruptive, given current realities. (I mean, you can't really kick tens of millions of people out of Southern California and give it back to the few natives whose ancestors once lived there. Where would the people go?) The trouble is that we can't even verify our elections, let alone pull off a progressive human rights initiative with and for Native Americans. We've got to do the ground work of democracy first, as the Bolivians and other South Americans have done. We have first to get rid of 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting, and corpo/fascist 'news' monopolies, and people like Karl Rove and Donald Rumsfeld still running around freely. Justice isn't even remotely possible for great majority of north Americans, let alone for Native Americans, in the U.S. We have a long way to go, to catch up with South American democracy. But I would certainly support justice for Native Americans, if we ever get there.

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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. No sarcasm
Edited on Tue Feb-03-09 06:14 AM by tama
But a honest question.

AFAIK the situation conserning e.g. "Sioux" and "Mohawks" and other 4th world nations in Northern America is bit more complicating, as their nations - or at leats parts of them - ask for international recognition and international settling over their disputes with Washington and do not recognize the judicial power of the treaty braking governement.

Their numbers are small and they have no money to buy politicians, so US "democracy" in it's representative form is not their friend but their enemy. They have their own traditional systems of governance, which emphasise communal direct and participatory decision making, together with "holy order" of living in balance with nature. The dispute between the white man and the red man goes deep, it's fundamentally about ways of life. The native one is true way of life, the European ideology of growth and imperialism and technological control over objectified nature is a dead end. So, if justice would be done and the treaties respected and land given back to people living of the land, it seems to me that also the intruders, should they wish to continue living where they also were born, would also have to live of the land and give up their destructive way of life.

The US Constitution is not betterment over the Iroquois constitution, which demanded taking into consideration in each decision seven generations to the past, their memory and experience, and seven generations into future, their livelihood depending on balance with nature. Recently, Ecuadorians accepted constitution giving rights for Pachamama, Mother Nature, in the form of native groups and others having right to speak for Pachamama in courts of law, so that Her rights and the livelihoods of our children which depend on Her would not be violated in the name of economic "progress" or anything else.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Yes, it's harder to achieve right living in more complicated countries like the US
--especially the US. The US is the most advanced in unsustainable living--and what is worse, in unsustainable policy contrived by multinational corporations and the super-rich for the benefit of the few, and brought to a culmination of unsustainability by thugs like Bush and Cheney as the result of rigged elections. For the last eight years, we haven't even been trying to do anything right, and have been actively making things far, far worse, with oil wars that both kill and pollute, and massive looting of government funds that might have been used to help people transition to a 'green' economy. And that is after being on a wrong course since the oil giants and war profiteers kicked Jimmy Carter out of office and installed Reagan. Carter was the last president we had who understood sustainability. He put solar panels on the roof of the White House. Reagan took them off!

Bolivia is a less complicated, and far less industrialized society. So is Ecuador. And, because of their large indigenous populations, they have had a chance, with the rise of democracy (based on the long hard work of many people, including many grass roots groups, but also people like Jimmy Carter), to bring the indigenous viewpoint, and reverence for Pachamama, into the "mainstream"--and, in Ecuador, into the very language of the Constitution, for the first time, ever. More complicated (urbanized, mixed culture) societies like Venezuela have also made advances in environmental consciousness, with the success of democracy. Environmental groups and indigenous tribes are an important part of the Chavez coalition, but they don't have as much influence in Venezuela (and other complex societies like Brazil and Chile) as they do in Bolivia and Ecuador.

Paraguay is an interesting case--and may be harbinger for an indigenous/Catholic coalition on the environment. They just elected their first leftist president, ever--the beloved "bishop of the poor," Fernando Lugo, who spent his entire Church career living with the poor indigenous. One of his most important issues is the pesticide spraying that harms poor farm workers and poisons the soil and the water. He is a highly conscious clergyman, and president.

Brazil is a country comparable to the US in size and complexity, and there doesn't seem to be any alternative, there, to the mantra, "JOBS, JOBS, JOBS." Even their best leaders--like President Lula da Silva, who is closely allied to Morales, Correa, Chavez and Lugo--are hamstrung by their vast population of displaced people in urban areas. Lula has done some good things--for instance, preserving a huge swath of the Amazon as living habitat for several uncontacted tribes (which also protects the forest, birds and fish), but he also made a bad biofuels deal with Bush that will hurt small farmers and the environment, for the benefit of short term jobs and revenue. If politicians like Lulu don't produce jobs, they are out.

The problem of huge urban populations vs the environment is probably the biggest unsolved dilemma of saving the planet and achieving social justice at the same time. What do you DO with all these people--sucking up water tables, requiring vast power generation works, in need of currently polluting transportation, who don't grow their own food and whose developments are moving ever further into natural areas and paving them over?

The Chavez government is trying to solve this problem in Caracas with land reform. Prior governments deliberately created a highly artificial, import-dependent, rich urban elite to service and profit from the oil industry. This urban elite in turn utterly neglected vital issues like food self-sufficiency, displacement of small farmers and local manufacturing. (They were importing machine parts for the oil industry!) The Chavistas have created the first well-run land reform program--encouragement of return to the land, well-thought-out help for small farmers and finding fallow land to be farmed, without too much social/economic disruption. But programs like this can take decades to produce results. Meanwhile, you have tens of thousands of people crammed together in urban areas, most of them poor to very poor. How do you feed, clothe, house and bootstrap them (with education and other supports), and employ them?

I think this is going to take an urban 'greening' movement, on a very large scale--that is, the creation of food gardens on every urban lawn or in every urban apartment window, as well as community gardens--for starters. Some cities in the US are well in advance of the federal government on 'greening' policies, but they really haven't addressed the coming food crisis, and Brazil hasn't either. (Brazil also has the excruciatingly painful problem of farmers--food producers--moving into and destroying the Amazon.)

You can't give land back to the indigenous that now has tens of millions of people living on it, in an unsustainable way--as I pointed out above. But you CAN learn vitally important wisdom from the indigenous, if you open society to all views, improve democracy and equality, stifle bigotry and address social justice issues so that the indigenous can speak, and want to speak. If the Irish had listened to the indigenous farmers in Peru, there would have been no Potato Famine. The Peruvian indigenous had thousands of years of experience and wisdom in cultivating a wide variety of potatoes, to prevent plagues. But the Peruvian indigenous couldn't speak--they were being oppressed--and the poor Irish had no means of obtaining the information they needed, to prevent a potato plague that ended up killing hundreds of thousands of people through starvation.

And this is just one example of why social justice for the indigenous is vital for everyone's survival, and not just the right thing to do. The indigenous (majority) in Bolivia have a far, far, FAR saner attitude on drug policy than our own insane government. We can learn from them, and save ourselves about a trillion dollars a year that we are now pouring down that rat hole, the US "war on drugs." But we have to improve our democracy, and rein in our war profiteers, to be able to benefit from that wisdom. It wouldn't at all harm us to be growing a few coca leaves and marijuana plants in our urban gardens. Marijuana can be used to make fuel, for one thing. And coca leaves are highly nutritious (and would help people keep from freezing to death, as global warming screws up the climate and produces ice storms where people aren't prepared for it).

The 'greening' of the world starts with social justice for the indigenous. And the joy of it is, as Evo Morales has said, "The time of the people has come." At least in South America.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I see
you have excellent understanding of the situation and I thank you sharing your knowledge and wisdom.

I believe you would be able to do great service in a tribal council... :)

As for urban gardening, I just happened to buy today a book on the subject. Not a native expertize, necessarily, but AFAIK, USAn citifolks could learn much from urban gardening also from ordinary Russians and Cubans who survived through severe collapses through urban gardening.

Time, I'm afraid, is rather limited and the learning process will be hard and worse. Urban gardening seems to one of the best ideas and skills to create some extra time for social cohesion in order to escape the quickest drop to the very bottom (Mad Max and worse). Also, the anarchist ideas and practices about "guerilla gardening" sound fun and constructive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_gardening
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Hmm
I've been on a gardening trip over the Internet this evening, and it's been a revelation. Something about URBAN KUDZU GUERILLA GARDENING sounds just right. Not just because it's edible and tasty etc. and very good for goats, but also because it's natural and very efficient antabus without harmfull effects against alcohol and tobacco...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Andale, Evo!
:applause:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. What is Going on in South America Give Me Hope for the US
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. How long ago was it that we could last say it the other way around?
More power to Bolivia. May it live up to its namesake's virtues
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. suck it, fascists. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Now, now! nt
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Im sorry, I've been reading too much fark.com
:spank:
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. excellent! ....and a big fat K&R....n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. Latin America Breaks Free
Latin America Breaks Free
Written by Benjamin Dangl
Tuesday, 03 February 2009

Source: The Progressive Magazine, Feb. 2009 Issue

Five years ago, when Evo Morales was a rising political star as a congressman and coca farmer, I met him in his office in Cochabamba, Bolivia. He was drinking orange juice and sifting through the morning newspapers when I asked him about a meeting he just had with Brazilian President Lula. "The main issue that we spoke about was how we can construct a political instrument of liberation and unity for Latin America," Morales told me.

Now President Morales is one of many left-leaning South American leaders playing that instrument. This unified bloc is effectively replacing Washington's presence in the region, from military training grounds to diplomatic meetings. In varying degrees, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, and Venezuela are demonstrating that the days of U.S.-backed coups, gunship diplomacy, and Chicago Boys' neoliberalism may very well be over for South America. The election of Barack Obama also gave hope for a less cowboy approach from Washington.

While many of the current left-of-center leaders in Latin America were elected on anti-imperialist and anti-neoliberal platforms, the general scope of their policies varies widely. On the left side of the spectrum sit Hugo Chávez of Venezuela, Evo Morales of Bolivia, and Rafael Correa of Ecuador. They have focused on nationalizing natural resources and redistributing the subsequent wealth to social programs to benefit the countries' poor majorities. They have also enacted constitutional changes aimed at redistributing land and increasing popular participation in government policy, decision-making, and budgeting. Chávez, Morales, and Correa were also more outspoken than other leaders in their critique of the Bush Administration.

~snip~
A conflict in Bolivia this past September proved to be a litmus test for the new regional unity. Just weeks after a recall vote invigorated Morales with 67 percent support across the country, a small group of thugs hired by the rightwing opposition led a wave of violence against Morales's supporters. The worst of these days of road blockades, protests, and racist attacks took place on September 11 in the tropical state of Pando. A private militia allegedly funded by the rightwing governor, Leopoldo Fernández, fired on a thousand unarmed pro-Morales men, women, and children marching toward the state's capital. The attack left dozens dead and wounded.

More:
http://towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/1520/1/
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. As usual, good info. Thanks. n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Thank you, ronnie624.
:hi:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
32. U.S. needs to end 'imperial attitude,' Bolivian says
U.S. needs to end 'imperial attitude,' Bolivian says
David Mercado / Reuters

"The U.S. has a very urgent task ahead of it, which is to recover its moral values so that we can believe in it again as leader of the free world," says former Bolivian President Carlos Mesa.
Former Bolivian President Carlos Mesa has some advice for Obama, starting with the closing of Guantanamo and lifting of the embargo on Cuba.


By Chris Kraul
February 4, 2009

Reporting from La Paz, Bolivia -- To mend U.S.-Latin American relations, President Obama must first recover the moral authority the U.S. has lost with its operation of the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, says former Bolivian President Carlos Mesa.

Mesa has a unique perspective on U.S.-Latin American relations as a former news reporter, historian, U.S. cinephile and Bolivia's president from 2003 to 2005. He said he expects to run for the presidency again later this year against incumbent Evo Morales.

~snip~
But the most dramatic break from U.S. moral logic occurred with President George W. Bush, who after Sept. 11 totally lost his way in terms of U.S. moral values. Based on my conversations in Latin America, Guantanamo seems to resonate more deeply here than even among U.S. citizens.

It was a dramatic and possibly unique point in history -- the U.S. renouncing the application of the rule of law. That's the essence of what the U.S. has defended as the great model in its competition with communism and now terrorism. That's what I demand of Obama -- that he recovers this criterion. You can't give classes on morals if you're not applying them in your own territory.

More:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mesa-qa4-2009feb04,0,7241256.story?track=rss
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