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Sen. Nelson (D-Ne) joins effort to reduce bailout costs (deal to strip more than $50 billion)

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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 01:54 PM
Original message
Sen. Nelson (D-Ne) joins effort to reduce bailout costs (deal to strip more than $50 billion)
Source: Omaha World Herald

BY JOE MORTON

WASHINGTON — Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., and a bipartisan group of senators have struck a tentative deal to strip more than $50 billion in spending from an economic stimulus bill that now tops $900 billion, Nelson spokesman Clay Westrope said Wednesday.

Nelson, Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, and other centrists in the Senate have been working on removing funding from the bill that they say would not actually stimulate the economy.

Westrope declined to release the full list of items to be struck under the tentative deal, but provided the following highlights: $61 million worth of diplomatic and consular programs at the U.S. State Department; $122.5 million for new and renovated polar ice breakers; and $198 million in military benefits for Filipino veterans of World War II.

The House passed its version of the stimulus bill last week. The Senate hopes to finish its work on it by this weekend, but Senators on both sides of the aisle have criticized the inclusion of spending measures that seem esoteric to the cause of economic stimulus.



Read more: http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10555395
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Death by 1,000 tax cuts. (nt)
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. where was this fine toothed comb during shrub's omnibus bills?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. I keep saying: 3 trillion missing from the pentagon 5 yrs ago, according to Rummy. one audit.
plenty of money for the stimulus and 3 more stimulus packages just like it. so easy!
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not a big deal. All this small stuff will go into the general spending bill.
He's not compromising on the important stuff. This type of crap shouldn't have been in the House bill in the first place.

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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm glad to hear it - I think it should be a focused stimulus bill
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Agreed
But the repukes idea of focused is more tax cuts!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. If $50Billion is what keeps this bill from passing - well get it done!
I mean the bill is $900Bill and I know Obama probably put stuff in there that he thought might be stripped in order to have some bargaining with the opposition. We all knew the republicans wouldn't let this bill pass without a fight so it was better that Obama bulked the package a bit so he had a few 'concessions' to give to the republicans in order to get this bill passed.

Strip that $50billion and lets get this thing passed
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Beavker Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why not break up the bill
Break it up by what it does. Maybe it's not that easy...I'm sure it isn't but at least you don't shoot down a bill that includes road building, or renewable energy development, or health care benefits because someone had to stick an earmark it in for something that is unrelated to the other items. Make it easier to see what goes where. If it's infrastructure get it passed, if it's health care deal with it separately and work the pork out of it. But the pork for Smoking cessation, if you believe it's pork, should not delay rebuilding our failing bridges. Just a thought.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. You know what they say...
"One person's pork is another person's infrastructure."
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well, lets see -
Edited on Wed Feb-04-09 02:44 PM by haele
Diplomatic and consular programs will hire more people and require support. at $61 Million for, what, one or two years?, that's about 100 direct workers and their support infrastruction - building space, equipment, supplies, admin, tech and service support...
New and renovated Polar Ice Breakers. There's a good 300 to 500 skilled workers (union or not, the skill set and training needed in shipyard work will guarentee a good wage for the majority of the workers), plus improvements to local economies and support of small businesses that specialize in marine support and installations.
Actually, $122.5 million is not enough to do both, that's about one new icebreaker and perhaps one good renovation, if the hull structure needs renovation.
Unfortunatly, it's west coast "blue" states - California and Washington - that will get the work, so I see why the Republicans and a few blue-dog Dems like Nelson don't think that's a real "national stimulus".

More military benefits to Filipino WWII veterans - well, true, that doesn't directly stimulate the economy, but what it does do is pay a long over-due debt off, and if they're living here in the US, goes back into the local economy as the vets have more disposable income - be the benefits standard VA services, or monitary. Because there are fewer and fewer WWII vets, we really do need to do that soon, whether it's in this package or another one.

Haele


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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. $198 million? How many Filipino World War II veterans are still alive?
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 12:00 PM by No Elephants
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Dont let the fucking executives get their hands on this money!
Put an end to this shit! :mad:
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rgbecker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. You've given 400 million worth of examples...far from 50 billion:
50,000,000,000 vs.
400,000,000

If the guy can come up with another 49,600,000,000 to knock off....we've got a deal!?!?

Could we please get a few senators in there who can add? If they want to stimulate the economy why hold back? Its going to take the government to spend it, everyone else is scared to death to do anything. People aren't even driving their cars even with gas under $2.00/gal they are so frightened of what's next.

If I hear one more conservative say the way to stimulate the economy is to cut taxes, after the great successes of the Bush Administration, I'm going to shoot the TV.

Best quote of the year so far: Barney Frank, "a tax cut never fixed a bridge."
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. Other centrists in the Senate???? No, no, the fucking "centrists"......
.......are now Senators like Bernie Sanders, Sherod Brown, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, and John Testor. Fuck all these so called "old" centrists like Reid, Feinstein, Schumer, Lincoln & Pryor (from my state). I was willing to give this new "thing" a chance, but after ALL the Obama appointments and CIA rendition things, I NOW SAY we get on the keyboards and start getting on his ass. Enough with the bullshit "bipartisanship".
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. Agreed
The only bipartisan thing I agree to is agreeing with the new head of the RNC: Bipartisanship is overrated.

Quit sucking up to the Repervlicans and do what the PEOPLE want.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Let's quit pretending: it's a pork bill. nt
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. And what spending bill wouldn't be pork?
Not disagreeing with you, but the WPA that got America back to work in the '30s was full of Pork. The TVA project. All the arts projects - especially the cultural history (tracking down elderly former slaves to get their stories, recording back-country singers and music)and local building "decoration" projects, refurbishing and painting murals in city schools and government buildings. Hoover Dam. Grand Coulee Dam. Agricultural and Public Health Pest research and control projects. Parks and Recreation, including lake "ferries", rest area "lodges" where a local can have a small restaurant and store as well as public boat rental locations.
State Highway improvement - adding bridges and replacing dirt switchback roads with paved 2-lane highways or county roads to some of the more populated backwoods areas - "Roads to no-where". Health Clinics for small towns and remote areas, which included recruiting young people to go to medical school to staff those clinics...

It's all "Public Welfare". And people with jobs making livable wages or services that are used regularly, pay their way back in the long run through tax revenue.

Not to belabor the point, but almost every perceived pork-barrel project is some one's else's infrastructure stimulus - even if it's a six months long, two or three employee project. The thing that actually keeps it from being pork is the proportional funding for the project.

Ted Steven's "Bridge to No-Where" was over-budgeted even for Alaska standards - "Porked" probably to skim money off the actual cost of the Bridge and cover someone else's shortfall.
If the costs projected were in line with the costs of building a lifeline bridge for 50 people who can't always use a helicopter or plane to get supplies in and send waste or injured people out, no one would have really blinked unless they were grabbing at anything that didn't directly benefit them to point out as pork.

Haele
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. This is being characterized as a "stimulus"; in reality it's just a grab-bag of pet projects
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. if you call a job a 'pet project'...
or the health of a nation a 'pet project'. I guess you haven't been laid-off yet?

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. It's precisely the projects that will not add many jobs that are objectionable.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I suppose you mean things like...
extending unemployment insurance for the millions of people just laid off? They're starving is probably not nearly as important as a tax-cut right?

THE SENATE STIMULUS BILL.

The Senate Finance Committee just released the summary of the Senate stimulus bill. Headlines of obvious interest to this readership: There's $27 billion for highway investments and $8.4 billion for transit. There's $23 billion for health IT and comparative effectiveness gets $1.1 billion split between the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, NIH and HHS. That last bit looks like an obvious turf war to me. We really need a single agency coordinating the evidence industry. Anyway, the whole thing is copied below the fold.

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009

Creating Jobs, Cutting Taxes and Investing in Our Country’s Future

The United States is facing its deepest economic crisis since the Great Depression, one that calls for swift, bold action. The goals of this legislation are the same as they have been from day one: to strengthen the economy now and invest in our country’s future.

This legislation will create and save jobs; help state and local governments with their budget shortfalls to prevent deep cuts in basic services such as health, education, and law enforcement; cut taxes for working families and invest in the long-term health of our economy. We do all of this with unprecedented accountability, oversight and transparency so the American people know their money is being invested responsibly.

“The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 combines two essential ingredients needed to bring our economy back to life,” said Senate Appropriations Chairman Daniel K. Inouye (D-Hawaii). “We will create four million jobs in the near-term, and invest in America’s future by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure for the long-term. In addition, this bill includes more than $301 billion to aid state and local governments as they struggle to meet increasing demand for social services amidst plummeting tax revenues. As we address this crisis, we must never lose sight of our responsibility to avoid wasteful spending by providing strict accountability and oversight measures. We must invest this money quickly, but also wisely.”

“Millions of Americans will get back to work and our economy will get back on track with the job-creating tax cuts and smart investments in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act,” said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.). “Working families will get a financial boost, small businesses will finally catch a break, and the whole country will reap the benefits of a growing green energy sector, revitalized schools, and higher-quality health care. This bill has been carefully crafted to produce meaningful improvements to our economy in the short term, and to improve America’s fiscal strength and stability for the future.”

To accomplish these goals, The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act provides $888 billion in investments and tax cuts. Of this total, $694 billion will enter the economy by the end of Fiscal year 2010, meaning that 78 percent of the monies allocated will reach the American people by September 30, 2010, providing an immediate boost to the overall economy and creating an estimated four million jobs.

The Act provides for the following critical investments:

* Tax cuts for Working Families - $247 billion
* Job-creating Investments in Infrastructure and Science - $165 billion
* Job-creating Investments in Health - $153 billion
* Job-creating Investments in Education and Training - $138 billion
* Job-creating Investments for an Energy Independent America - $82 billion
* Job-creating Tax Cuts for Small Businesses - $21 billion
* Helping Americans Hit Hard by the Economic Crisis - $72 billion
* Law Enforcement, Oversight, Other Programs - $10 billion

Tax Cuts for Working Families include:

- $142 billion in Making Work Pay tax credits will provide ninety-five percent of American workers with up to $500 in extra cash in their paychecks; married couples filing jointly can receive up to $1000 total.

- $15 billion in tax cuts for families will give cash back to parents through an expansion of Earned Income Tax Credit for families with three or more children, additional marriage penalty relief for couples, and increased eligibility for the Refundable Child Tax Credit for lower-income families.

- $4 billion in tax cuts for homeowners will facilitate new home purchases with enhancements to the existing $7,500 homebuyer tax credit.

- $17 billion in one-time payments to seniors, disabled veterans and others will provide an immediately usable payment of $300 to seniors on Social Security, low-income recipients of Supplemental Security Income, disabled veterans and veterans on pensions, Railroad Retirement beneficiaries, and others who may not qualify for the Making Work Pay.

- $70 billion in Alternative Minimum Tax relief will protect 24 million working families from thousands of dollars in additional income taxes for 2009

Job-Creating Investments in Infrastructure and Science include:

Infrastructure Improvements

- $16 billion to repair, renovate and construct public schools in ways that will raise energy efficiency and provide greater access to information technology, and $3.5 billion to improve higher education facilities.

- $16 billion in tax credit bonds and tax-exempt bond improvements will finance job-rich projects in the public and private sectors, to build and renovate schools and to make other infrastructure improvements at the state and local level, in national recovery zones and on Native reservations.

- $9 billion for the National Telecommunications and Information Administration’s (NTIA) Broadband Technology Opportunities Program. This competitive grant funding will increase broadband access and usage in unserved and underserved areas of the Nation, which will better position the U.S. for economic growth, innovation, and job creation.

- $5.1 billion for the Department of Homeland Security to secure the homeland and promote economic activity.

- $4.6 billion in funding for the Corps of Engineers.

- $3.7 billion for VA hospital and medical facility construction and improvements, long-term care facilities for veterans, and improvements at VA national cemeteries.

- $3.4 billion for repair, restoration and improvement of public facilities at parks, forests, refuges and on other public and tribal lands.

- $3.2 billion for Facilities Sustainment, Restoration and Modernization to be used to invest in energy efficiency projects and to improve the repair and modernization of Department of Defense facilities to include Defense Health facilities.

- $2.4 billion for Department of Defense Facilities including quality of life and family-friendly military construction projects such as family housing and child care centers.

- $2.25 Billion for the HOME Investment Partnerships Program block grant to enable state and local government, in partnership with community-based organizations, to acquire, construct, and rehabilitate affordable housing and provide rental assistance to poor families.

- $110 million in tax incentives to build broadband capacity in rural and underserved areas will grow jobs in the technology sector and create economic opportunities in targeted areas

Transportation

- $27 billion is included for highway investments

- $8.4 billion for investments in public transportation.

- $5.5 billion for competitive grants to state and local governments for transportation investments.

- $1.3 billion for investments in our air transportation system.

- $3.1 billion for investments in rail transportation, including High Speed Rail.

- $830 million for repair and restoration of roads on park, forest, tribal and other public lands.

Public Housing

- $5 billion to the public housing capital fund to enable local public housing agencies to address a $32 billion backlog in capital needs -- especially those improving energy efficiency in aging buildings.

- $2.1 billion for full-year payments to owners receiving Section 8 project-based rental assistance.

- $2.25 billion for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes.

- $1.5 billion for homeless prevention activities, which will be sent out to states, cities and local governments through the emergency shelter grant formula.

Environmental Clean-Up/Clean Water

- $6.4 billion is directed towards environmental cleanup of former weapon production and energy research sites.

- $6 billion for local clean and drinking water infrastructure improvements.

- $1.4 billion for EPA’s nationwide environmental cleanup programs, including Superfund.

- $1.4 billion to support $3.8 billion in loans and grants for needed water and waste disposal facilities in rural areas.

Science

- $1.5 billion total for NASA.

- $1.4 billion total for National Science Foundation (NSF) Research.

- $1.2 billion total for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA).

Job-Creating Investments in Health include:

- $23.9 billion for investments and incentives in health information technology (IT) will grow jobs in the information technology sector, and will jumpstart efforts to increase the use of health IT in doctors’ offices and other medical facilities. This will reduce health care costs and improve the quality of health care for all Americans.

- $5.8 billion for prevention and wellness programs to fight preventable diseases and conditions with evidence-based strategies.

- $3.5 billion to conduct biomedical research in areas such as cancer, Alzheimer’s, heart disease and stem cells, and to improve NIH facilities.

- $1.1 billion to the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, NIH and the HHS Office of the Secretary to evaluate the relative effectiveness of different health care services and treatment options.

- $870 million to complete funding for pandemic flu preparedness.

Job-Creating Investments in Education and Training include:

- $79 billion State Fiscal Stabilization Fund includes $39 billion to local school districts and public colleges and universities, distributed through existing State and federal formulas; $15 billion to States as incentive grants as a reward for meeting key education performance measures; and $25 billion to States for other high-priority needs such as public safety and other critical services, which may include education.

- $13 billion in tax cuts for college tuition and education will help students and their families afford four years of college, with a $2,500 tax credit and the ability to purchase computers and computer technology with funds from tax-free 529 Savings Plans.

- $13 billion for Title 1 to help close the achievement gap and enable disadvantaged students to reach their potential.

- $13 billion for Special Education/IDEA to improve educational outcomes for disabled children. This level of funding will increase the Federal share of special education services to its highest level ever.

- $13.9 billion to increase the Pell Grant maximum award and to pay for increases in program costs resulting from increased eligibility and higher Pell Grant awards. The bill supports an increased Pell Grant maximum award of $281 in the 2009-2010 academic year and $400 in the 2010-2011 academic year. This aid will help 7 million students pursue postsecondary education.

- $3.4 billion for job training including State formula grants for adult, dislocated worker, and youth programs (including $1.2 billion to create up to one million summer jobs for youth).

- $108 million in extended Trade Adjustment Assistance will help businesses retool to avoid trade-related layoffs, and provide workers with income support and retraining if international trade causes job losses

Job-Creating Investments and Tax Incentives in Energy include:

- $33 billion in green energy tax incentives will grow jobs in the renewable energy sector by encouraging private-sector investments in research and production of green energy with wind, biomass, hydropower, and other renewable sources

- $6 billion for repair of federal buildings to increase energy efficiency using green technology.

- $5.4 billion in tax incentives for conservation and green energy use will encourage and reward energy efficiency and the building of alternative fueling stations, and facilitate the funding of conservation projects to improve America’s energy independence and grow jobs in these sectors as well.

- $4.6 billion for Fossil Energy research and development.

- $4.5 billion for smart-grid related activities, including work to modernize the electric grid.

- $4.2 billion for Energy Efficiency and Conservation Grants.

- $2.9 billion is available for the Weatherization Assistance Program.

- $2.6 billion for energy efficiency and renewable energy research.

- $2 billion is provided in grant funding for the manufacturing of advanced batteries systems and components and vehicle batteries that are produced in the United States.

- $1.6 billion is provided for grants to make schools and hospitals, significant users of energy, more energy efficient.

- $10 billion is provided for new loan guarantees aimed at standard renewable projects such as wind or solar projects and for electricity transmission projects.

Job-Creating Tax Cuts and Investments for Small Businesses include:

- Approximately $21 billion in business tax relief and incentives will help businesses survive in growing markets, get financing for expansion, and get the money they need for payroll and expenses. Businesses will be able to more easily write off the cost of new equipment, write off more losses if they’re hard hit economically, delay or reduce some tax payments, and cash in unused tax credits.

- Loans for Small Businesses: $730 million to stimulate lending to small businesses.

- $208 million in Work Opportunity tax incentives will increase the hiring of disabled veterans and disadvantaged youths into the workforce

Help for Workers and Families Hardest Hit by the Economic Crisis includes:

- $87 billion in increased Medicaid funding will help states to respond to rising numbers of Americans seeking health coverage through Medicaid, to balance state budgets, and to deal with other fiscal pressures brought on by the economic crisis.

- $47 billion in unemployment insurance improvements will allow Americans who lose their jobs in the economic downturn to receive an extra $25 in their weekly benefits, receive unemployment insurance longer if needed, pay fewer taxes on unemployment benefits, and get help even if they need to move to part-time work or leave work for family reasons

- $26 billion in COBRA premium assistance will help workers who lose their jobs to keep health coverage longer with a 65% subsidy for COBRA premiums

- $16.5 billion for additional Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), formerly Food Stamps, benefits.

- $3 billion in Temporary Assistance to Needy Families funding will allow programs to better serve the country’s lowest-income families in this time of economic crisis

- $1.8 billion in Medicaid, Medicare, and Indian Health Service funds will allow Americans transitioning into the workforce from the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families program to keep health coverage through Medicaid longer, will assist low-income seniors and disabled Americans with Medicare premiums, and will help American Indians and Alaska Natives afford health care

- Child Care Development Block Grant: $2 billion to provide quality child care services for an additional 300,000 children in low-income families who increasingly are unable to afford the high cost of day care.

- Head Start & Early Head Start: $2.1 billion to allow an additional 124,000 children to participate in this program, which provides development, educational, health, nutritional, social and other activities that prepare children to succeed in school.

- State and Local Law Enforcement: $3.95 billion total to support law enforcement efforts.

Unprecedented Oversight, Accountability and Transparency

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan provides unprecedented oversight, accountability, and transparency to ensure that taxpayer dollars are invested effectively, efficiently, and as quickly as possible.

- Funds are distributed whenever possible through existing formulas and programs that have proven track records and accountability measures already in place.

- Numerous provisions in the bill provide for expedited but effective obligation of funds so that dollars are invested in the economy as quickly as possible.

- The Government Accountability Office and the Inspectors General are provided additional funding for auditing and investigating recovery spending.

- A new Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board will coordinate and conduct oversight of recovery spending and provide early warning of problems.

- A special website will provide transparency by posting information about recovery spending, including grants, contracts, and all oversight activities.

- State and local whistleblowers who report fraud and abuse are protected.

- There are no earmarks in this bill.

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. No, I would WHOLE-HEARTEDLY endorse an extension of unemployment insurance
Edited on Wed Feb-04-09 05:39 PM by Romulox
Nor do I believe that more tax cuts for the wealthy are the answer.

I simply don't believe this is the "infrastructure" plan Obama promised during the campaign.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I don't understand all..
Edited on Wed Feb-04-09 05:47 PM by stillcool
the repetitive complaints against this bill, that do not specify what in the bill they find objectionable. If it is infrastructure, what more would you have in there, besides just money? What types of projects are not there, that you would like added so you could support this bill?
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. And pet projects don't stimulate the local economies?
Edited on Wed Feb-04-09 06:04 PM by haele
Pet projects are often how advances are made. A major infrastructure project in Minnesota is not going to help the unemployed in Florida or California. It will help the unemployed in Minnesota. The only truly "National Stimulus" where all the states would see a uptick in employment would be a draft - everything else is a pet project for some district.

As I said before, the difference between pork and work projects is how close is the actual cost to the proposed cost - how much of the project monies are being laundered for other purposes - for things like "state manager's team-building training" at resort hotels or used on programs with no links to the original project.
I have no problem with my tax dollars going to employ anywhere from dozen people to a hundred for a few years to fix an infrastructure - be it physical or social - in some back-woods of a red state. So long as it employs people - or keeps people employed - who will then pay taxes themselves and pay that money back. I just have problems if there's no result and the majority of it ends up in a few already wealthy pockets to throw away on expensive duty-free booze and hookers under the table - and they don't share with the rest of us.

It's all pork when you look at it objectively. But hey, it helps the country in the long run, no matter how "unworthy" some people seem.

Haele
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. FDR's program put all kinds of people to work and strengthened the
nation's infrastructure. The bridge to nowhere was to help out Ted's rich friend who had a second home. For that, $1 million would have been way too much.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Let's quit pretending - republics can suck it
:thumbsdown:
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. Bombing Iraq and TARP = $2 trillion+
It's odd that War 'n Wall Street get trillions at the drop of a hat.
But spending that will actually benefit the people of the United States is derided as "pork".
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. Easy solution---Raise minimum wage to $15.00/hr. nt
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. Aaarrrgh - does any of these assholes know how old and decrepit our ice breakers are?
These ships are essential to polar research efforts in Antarctica - they break the passage into McMurdo station each year.

That channel is used to refuel and supply McMurdo - an essential link in Antarctic logistics.

We are currently chartering RUSSIAN icebreakers to do this.

Our ancient Coast Guard breakers can't do it effectively - they just break down.

The charter for the ice breaker that supplies Palmer Station may be canceled as well.

Without these vessels, Antarctic science will grind to a halt.

More evidence that conservatives (D or R) hate science.

Assholes
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. So, how does that belong in an economic stimulus bill? n/t
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. US ships built and/or renovated in US shipyards
supporting US polar science - which provides lots and lots of jobs especially in Antarctic science support.

It's just as valid a "stimulus" as building bridges.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. I hope they take out that 22mil for sodding the mall...it gave the assholes something to whine about
...jeez, personally, I think its necessary
(the "mall" is a friggin DUST BOWL), but
they went ape shit over it like a magpie
over a mirror.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I have no problem with sodding the mall, but is $22 million a reasonable price?
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I have no idea.....
no sodding idea.

:hi:
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laureloak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's still waaay too big. And out of control. IMHO. n/t
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 12:54 PM by laureloak
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fencesitter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. Two Senators Seek to Strip Billions From Stimulus Bill
Source: NYT

WASHINGTON — Anxious over the ballooning size of the proposed economic stimulus package, now at more than $900 billion, lawmakers in both parties are working on a last-minute plan to strip $200 billion from the bill.

The effort is being led by two centrist senators — Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska, and Susan Collins, Republican of Maine.

Among the initiatives that could be cut are $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts, $14 million for cyber security research by the Homeland Security Department, $1 billion for the National Science Foundation, $400 million for research and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases, $850 million for Amtrak and $400 million for climate change research. But so far, none of the suggestions come close to being enough to shrink the package on the scale proposed.

The final Senate vote on the stimulus package, expected late on Thursday, looms as a major test of President Obama’s ability to build bipartisan consensus, especially given his extraordinary personal lobbying effort. He has made numerous telephone calls in support of the package, visited Republicans on Capitol Hill, and held meetings in the Oval Office on Wednesday with moderate lawmakers, including Ms. Collins and Mr. Nelson.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/us/politics/06stimulus.html?_r=1&hp



They really don't like the NEA, condoms and public transportation. Never have, never will.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Let's all give a big cheer for the citizens of Maine and Nebraska
Mainers especially- heck of a job.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. For what? Do we really know specifically what is being cut and why?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. I feel like I'm completely in the dark about the whole thing
:scared:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. I've read some of what they want cut, and it shouldn't be cut. (nt)
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I can see taking all of those out except the Amtrak part. We should be investing in public
transportation infrastructure and we would get that money back long term for sure and maybe short term depending on what it is for.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. I don't think we know enough about what was in the bill and what is being
taken out, in specific terms, to either cheer or jeer these cuts. As just one example, FDR funded art projects to very good effect for the artists, the nation and the economy. Therefore I would not automatically assume anything about the National Endowment for the Arts cut. It depends upon why--specifically--that money was in the recovery budget in the first place
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. They need to strip out all of the Republican tax cuts.
It's a proven fact that tax cuts don't work, and will do nothing to create immediate jobs and restore consumer confidence.

That should make a pretty good dent in the bill.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Exactly
They want to cut things that deal with science and transportation while leaving the tax cuts where they are.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. It ALWAYS boils down to tax cuts with Republicans. ALWAYS.
That's why the Dems always "offer" their own tax cuts, which aren't for upper incomers so the pukes just laugh and call the tax rebates for "people who don't pay taxes." We seriously have to get off of this merry go round, folks. There is so much wheel spinning going on, nothing gets done.

There has GOT to be another way of doing business on Capital Hill...
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. Amen, but what are the chances the Democrats will do that?
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. They ARE the majority party. We have a DEMOCRATIC President
in the White House. They need to stop acting like the minority party, which they've been doing very well for years.

In other words, they just need to do exactly what the Republicans did when they had Congress, and that's SHUT OUT THE OPPOSING PARTY.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. no more tax cuts for the rich
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. I wish they'd stop dicking around...
so I told them so...

Contact Sen. Ben Nelson via Web Form.

Website: bennelson.senate.gov

Washington, D.C. Office:
720 Hart Senate Office Building,
District of Columbia 20510-2706
Phone: (202) 224-6551
Fax: (202) 228-0012

Lincoln Office: (more district offices)

440 North 8th Street, Suite 120
Lincoln, Nebraska 68508
Phone: (402) 441-4600
Fax: (402) 476-8753
Lincoln Office:
440 North 8th Street, Suite 120
Lincoln, Nebraska 68508
Phone: (402) 441-4600
Fax: (402) 476-8753

Omaha Office:
7602 Pacific Street, Suite 205
Omaha, Nebraska 68114
Phone: (402) 391-3411
Fax: (402) 391-4725

Scottsbluff Office:
PO Box 1472
Scottsbluff, Nebraska 69363
Phone: (308) 631-7614


Current Elected Office Contact Information

Contact Sen. Olympia Snowe via Web Form.

Website: snowe.senate.gov

Washington, D.C. Office:
154 Russell Senate Office Building,
District of Columbia 20510-1903
Phone: (202) 224-5344
Fax: (202) 224-1946

Portland Office: (more district offices)

Three Canal Plaza, #601
Portland, Maine 04101
Phone: (207) 874-0883
Fax: (207) 874-7631
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Collins sounds like she will support an $800 billion package
She sounds like she was convinced by Obama the other day to support it, providing some stuff is taken out.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. That son of a bitch Nelson. That guy is a dem like I'm being
scouted by MENSA. Neither one of us qualify.
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Typical- strip out science
Fucking luddites. Fuck all of them.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Yeah Suzie - we'll just not give NSF any more money
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 12:47 PM by jpak
:puke:

I voted for Tom Allen for a reason

Oh yeh - we don't need to extend AMTRAK service to Brunswick or Augusta or Bangor or Bar Harbor, Maine do we.

more :puke:
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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Frankly their list is bullshit
I have no problem with them looking to remove things that are not necessary in the bill, but their list includes some things that should be there and does not include things that should not IMO.

For example, where is the nearly one billion dollars to build and furnish a new DHS headquarters... I don't think that should be in a stimulus package (but to the GOP that Bush and Dick left, anything for homeland security is sacred I guess).

I cannot disagree with them wanting to take the arts endowment or the research monies out. I will strongly support both when they are brought up as separate bills, but they do not belong in this one. And frankly their inclusion only gives validity to the GOP and helps them argue against the whole package.
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. Just toss it out - it is only going to corps and rich again - enough
these senators do not care about ordinary people - they have shown even when they win, they lose - roll over roll over - rove is still at work and tom delay and the rest - it is over - they do not want to help people
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. Can Harry Reid do anything to get his Senators back in line?
Oh wait. Forget it. I already know the answer.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
56. Nelson and Collins...
$1 trillion to blow up a country that did not attack the US?
YES!

$750 billion to fund bonuses for Wall Street criminals?
YES!

$1 billion for the National Science Foundation?
HELL NO!

Idiots.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
58. The complaints about "pork" are laughable
This is why "pork" and complaints about "pork" will never go away. Besides the occasional bizarre appropriation like the "Bridge to Nowhere", One man's pork is another man's legitimate spending. People complain about "pork" unless it's their own "pork". I am struck by how even Republican governors, such as Charlie Crist, are BEGGING for the money, while at the same time the Pukes in Congress are moaning and groaning.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-09 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
59. $8.5 TRILLION to bail out capitalism . . . let's take that back . . . !!!
Helloooo, Federal Reserve . . .
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