House Approves Whitelist of People Who Aren't Terrorists

[BlueJessamine]

Source: WIRED News

The House overwhelmingly adopted legislation this week mandating the creation of a new kind of terrorist watchlist: a database of people who aren't terrorists, but are routinely flagged at airports anyway.

The U.S. government maintains a list of about a million names of suspected terrorists that is crosschecked with passenger names ahead of airline boarding. The list has been dogged for years by sloppy name matches that have ensnared innocent travelers, children, prominent politicians and government officials, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops' secretary of education and all men named David Nelson.

Under the new plan, approved late Tuesday 413-3, innocent victims of the terrorist watchlist must prove to the Department of Homeland Security, through an undetermined appeals process, that they are not terrorists. They would then get their names put on what the legislation calls the "Comprehensive Cleared List."

The legislation is another attempt to assist wrongly flagged passengers and would supersede the troubled DHS Traveler Redress Inquiry Program, which has been criticized for being slow or unresponsive to flier complaints.



Read more: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/02/house-approves.html

[NightWatcher]

1. why not fix the "guilty list" instead of having to prove yourself to be on the innocent list?

this has bad idea written all over it

[truthisfreedom]

2. Because the innocent people are being confused with the names on the no-fly list.

You need clarification for those whose names are similar or identical to no-fliers.

I'm not suggesting any of this is sane.

[on point]

18. Passports are unique identifiers!

Why are they using name matches in the first place? Don't they trust their own passport docs???

[Bill McBlueState]

35. only about 20% of Americans own passports

so that wouldn't work so well.

[zogofzorkon]

3. Because they feel the innocent list will be shorter

then they'll do away with the guilty list.

[merh]

25. Isn't the burden on those that accuse

Isn't it our system, innocent until proven guilty?

This legislation reverses that while acknowledging violations of the 8th Amendment, adjudication of guilt without due process and undue punishment as a result of that adjudication.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. David Nelson indeed.

[SharonAnn]

7. Not Ricky? Or Ozzie? Or Harriet?

Or am I the only one here who's old enough that the name "David Nelson" makes me think of the Ozzie and Harriet show and the two sons, David and Ricky

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. The only terrorist in the bunch was their buddy Wally.

One giggle could bring down the house.

[Downwinder]

22. David -- a terrorist!!! No way!!! nt

[barbtries]

27. no.

53, here. :)

[AnneD]

36. I remember....

and really liked Rick Nelsons later recordings-It was really sad. The plane he was in actually crashed near my brothers farm. Sad sad sad.

You forgot the Nelson twins....

[htuttle]

8. I work with a guy named David Nelson

And yes, I think he has been stopped as at the airport as a result of it.

And no, he's not a terrorist. As far as I know...

[Idealism]

5. The standards for "terrorist" have gotten so loose

that a "negative" list has become the more expedient option... ?

Sad.

[katandmoon]

6. Guilty until you prove yourself innocent. So much for the Constitution.

[wroberts189]

29. Yep ..its like it does not exist ..stupid fools.

[razors edge]

9. Guilty until proven innocent.

If we are going to turn all the basic precepts of our country on their heads, why stop there?

Shouldn't we let the cops stop people for no reason and demand their papers? Maybe we should let the cops sell their cars and houses before proving a case against them.

Can't we let the USKGB tap peoples phones for fun and profit?

These poor employees have a hard time living on a stable government wage with insurance and retirement bennies, they need a little help.

Never mind.

[Downwinder]

21. Is your seat belt fastened? nt

[wroberts189]

30. Lets just flush all of America values down the drain.

The constitution is treated like toilet paper as usual.


Someday ..they will pay.

[UpInArms]

10. just trash this crappy TIA and the lousy 500,000 people that don't

belong on it

this is all bullshit

shitcan the damn thing!

[BlooInBloo]

11. Wonderful. They're making a list of all brown skinned Americans....

Gee - I can't forsee ANY problems with THAT genius idea.

EDIT: It should be called a Brown List.

[midnight]

12. Sounds like the intent was to help, but the kicker is you have

to prove your innocence,and you have to use an undetermined appeals process!

[LiberalFighter]

14. Screw this new piece of legislation. I seriously doubt it would help.

Instead, they should put the right people on the list in the first place. How difficult can that be?

A million on the list? At best there shouldn't be more than 1,000 maybe 10,000. I wonder how many on the list are American citizens and how many from the Middle East?

INTERPOL only has about 178,000 records of known international criminals, missing
persons and dead bodies, with their criminal histories, photographs, fingerprints, etc. That doesn't include "terrorists" in most cases. Yet, the USA managed to create a database of almost a million terrorist suspects.

[aquart]

15. EVERY man named David Nelson has to PROVE he's not a terrorist?

Innocent till proven guilty doesn't work anymore?

[AllyCat]

16. How do you prove you aren't a terrorist?

[JJ]

17. Donations to GOP candidates was the preferred method until recently

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. Eat a ham sandwich and kiss a man (if you are a man)

That would have kept the September 11 hijackers off of the planes.

[Demeter]

19. Proof That An Unworkable Axiom Yields Worthless Conclusions

Axiom 1: We can judge certain people terrorists although they have never been tried or convicted or even caught in the act.

Axiom 2: These terrorists, or maybe just potential terrorists, will attempt to board airplanes using their own names.

Axiom 3: None of this violates anybody's civil rights or Constitutional guarantees or the rule of law.

Hence the conclusion: WE ARE ALL TERRORISTS, AND DON'T DESERVE A DRAMA-FREE, COMFORTABLE FLIGHT.

[Solly Mack]

20. ...

"innocent victims of the terrorist watchlist must prove to the Department of Homeland Security, through an undetermined appeals process, that they are not terrorists."

just wee bit backwards isn't it?


"through an undetermined appeals process"

Snort...

[KansDem]

23. Up next: A list of "terrorists" thought to be "not terrorists" who were on a "terrorist" watchlist.

:crazy:

[slackmaster]

24. I honestly thought this was going to be a piece from The Onion

:argh:

[surrealAmerican]

31. That's what I thought too.

How does anyone think, "hmmm, innocent victims should be required to prove they are innocent, so we can put them on a second list" and not think there is something deeply wrong?

[barbtries]

26. just get rid of the DHS

leave the terrorist tracking to other agencies. why should i have to "prove" i'm not a terrorist! i am an american citizen...where do i go and what do i do to make them "prove" they have any fucking business in my personal, private life?!

goddammit.

[wroberts189]

28. wonderful ... guilty until proven innocent.

yep that's sounds very constitutional.


Boy .. we have sure come a long way since colonial times.


/sarcasm off

[unblock]

32. all this is completely idiotic. what, terrorists can't figure out how to use fake ids???

yes, passports are harder than most documents to fake, but that's small potatos compared to flying planes into buildings.

besides, there are plenty of ways to smuggle people into the country that don't involve passports at all. i'm not saying you don't try, but the current system is a mess and has harassed far more people then necessary, and it's not clear that it's protecting the country at all.

[hootinholler]

33. This is just wrong on several layers...

Prove innocence?
Creates a privileged class of traveler?

I'm sure there are more.

-Hoot