Man shoots himself at Crystal Cathedral

[bemildred]

Source: AP

GARDEN GROVE, Calif.—A man shot himself to death in front of a cross inside televangelist Robert H. Schuller's Crystal Cathedral on Wednesday as a small group of tourists visited the famous sanctuary.

The man entered about 9:45 a.m., handed a note and his driver's license to two ushers, walked to the cross and then shot himself in the head as he appeared to be praying, said Senior Pastor Juan Carlos Ortiz.

The man used a semiautomatic handgun, said police Lt. Dennis Ellsworth.

Ellsworth did not release the man's identity but said he was in his 40s and had a last known address in Whittier, although he possibly had moved from there.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11731157

[Tyler Generation]

1. Holy shit. nt

[gratuitous]

2. Damn

There will be more of this story to come out, of course, but just . . . damn.

[maseman]

3. Why the fuck do people kill themselves

so dramatically in front of other innocent people?

[slackmaster]

4. It's a quest for drama

Kind of a cry for help, but somewhat confused.

[maseman]

8. When I was in 5th grade

I went to an elementary school in a middle-class white neighborhood. Pretty quiet area overall.

I didn't see it or hear it but some complete asshole came out on his front lawn next to the playground and blew his head off in front of kids playing. I remember when it happened and was really jolted by it. Imagine those kids that saw it.

Sometimes I really hate people.

[sofa king]

30. The ones who succeed are trying to end pain and misery.

Believe me, I know: there comes a point where one can't believe there is help, doesn't give a damn if there is help, and can't summon the energy to go and get it anyway.

For me, all I could do is push buttons, so I called the hospital. A gun would have made the solution only one click away.

[slackmaster]

33. Yes, that's why people who have serious depression should not keep firearms in their homes

As soon as he was diagnosed, a friend of mine up in the San Francisco Bay Area got rid of his firearms and started driving circuitous routes so as to avoid driving on high bridges. He had recurring thoughts of jumping off the Golden Gate or one of the other major ones.

That added quite a bit to his commute. Fortunately he's had his symptoms under control by medication for many years now, and no longer avoids bridges.

[PassingFair]

34. Thank you for that.

So many suicides are impulsive actions.
It's true that the rafter in the garage
can also be utilized....

but a gun is so quick and handy.

:cry:

[nc4bo]

12. As horrible as it is, it could have been worse.

He didn't try to kill every one around him before committing suicide.

Horrible experience for everyone witnessing it I have no doubt.

[Aristus]

21. Hey, I'm just glad he didn't try to take anyone with him.

He must have been in a lot of pain to do something like that...

[TomClash]

5. Perhaps . . .

. . . this has relieved his tortured soul. Let's hope so.

[MineralMan]

6. Isn't that the second suicide in the Crystal Cathedral?

I seem to remember that the church's musical director there a few years ago.

Hmm...

[tanyev]

10. Yeah, 2004.

Right before Christmas.

Crystal Cathedral gunman kills self
Friday, December 17, 2004 Posted: 8:10 AM EST (1310 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- A nine-hour standoff between police and a church worker, who opened fire in the Crystal Cathedral complex, ended early Friday when the man shot and killed himself, police said.

Lt. Mike Handfield with the Garden Grove Police Department said that Johnnie Wayne Carl, 57, a church musical director, committed suicide in one of the bathroom areas at 1:58 a.m. (4:58 a.m. ET).

Police called in a SWAT team and set up a perimeter around the sprawling Orange County complex after shots were fired in the building Thursday afternoon, Handfield said.

Handfield said that Carl made suicidal comments throughout negotiations with police as officials tried to get him to surrender and that he had a history of mental illness.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/17/cathedral.shooting/index.html

[LeftHander]

7. Must of given them money he wished he had back now....nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. That he used a semi-auto was important why?

[Tesha]

13. Perhaps you should address that question to the author of the article rather than the OP?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. It was really a question for anyone who cared to respond.

[bemildred]

15. It seems clear from the story that it was Lt Dennis Elsworth that thought it was important.

Since he is a cop, I can see why that might seem important to him. Me, I don't care, I suspect the writers of the story don't much care either, they are just writing what they were told. I think that it's you and Lt Dennis that cares about it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. Why do you think it's important to him?

[bemildred]

19. Is that a rhetorical question?

Or do you really not know why cops care about guns?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. Why did he care it was a semi-auto as opposed to a revolver?

[bemildred]

22. I don't see that he did. He reported the facts. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. You said you could see why it was important to him, I wondered why.

[bemildred]

24. And I told you why. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. Not really, but whatever.

[bemildred]

26. Well, what is Lt Elsworth supposed to do, say it was a revolver?

You were not clear. First you ask why it was important that he used a semi-auto. Then you change it to "as opposed to a revolver". But that's all in your head, there is no mention of a revolver anywhere except coming from you. So it's you that cares that it was a semi-auto as opposed to a revolver. There is no evidence that the Lt gives a shit about that, but he does care about being accurate about the weapon used. So yeah, whatever ...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. I just wondered why it was reported, he shot himself one time with a gun.

Who cares what kind of gun?

David

[bemildred]

28. Obviously, Lt Elsworth cares, and you do. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. Post #16 is a much better explanation, thanks.

[bemildred]

31. I'm glad we got it straightened out. nt

[Thor_MN]

16. The reporter was, ... reporting?

If there are not many facts at hand, pad the story with whatever facts are available.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. Ok that makes sense.

[LanternWaste]

35. The specific tool he used to commit suicide was was at least somewhat relevant?

The specific tool he used to commit suicide was was at least somewhat relevant, is my guess.

I wouldn't question the article had he used a saw, and rather than simply writing 'saw', the article specified hack-saw, tree-saw or chain saw.

I imagine were he hit by a vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine, the author would just have validly specified SUV, truck, motorcycle, or sedan as it seems somewhat more specific and somewhat more relevant.



And I don't question the integrity (nor attempt to cast implications) of the author's use of a more specific label for the tool used in this instance.

[Sultana]

11. Well, he's definitely not going to heaven

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[bemildred]

32. Man commits suicide at Crystal Cathedral

A man walked into the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove on Wednesday, knelt down at the foot of a cross and fatally shot himself in the head.

---

Although Smick's last known address was in Whittier, he was homeless and had been living out of his pickup, according to Garden Grove police, who believe that he stole the handgun used in the shooting from a friend a couple of weeks ago.

"That suggests to us he had some type of plan," Capt. Mike Handfield said. "But we haven't talked to anyone who heard he was going to kill himself."

A friend told police that Smick had attended a Bible study in Temecula several weeks before his death.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-crystal-cathedral19-2009feb19,0,6098391.story

[paparush]

36. Queuing up some Filter...