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Sorry I can be a bit slow at understanding what folks sometimes are trying to say in these discussions, so I'll ask again:
Is your issue with an apology from the American Government to Iraq one of timing? (ie: Do you think it should come after we stop the crimes we are doing/have done to Iraq or do you think it should come while we are stopping those crimes?-I gather, from reading your replies, that you are against the apology happening prior to our doing anything about those crimes.) I am asking this because I am not sure where you stand on the apology, if it's a timing issue, a Desmond Tutu issue or even if you think an apology is needed at all.
Now that I've a little more time to reflect on things, I'd like to respond to your next post with my feelings and thoughts on this topic.
"........While continuing to use all of you as human trampolines, I am saying, "I'm really sorry about bouncing up and down on all your guts." Yet, I have not stopped bouncing up and down for a second. What would you think of me, my sincerity and my apology?" Well of course I would doubt the sincerity of the apology under those circumstances. Under those circumstances, the cessation on your part of the jumping up and down on our guts business would need to be concurrent with the apology for me to even start to believe in it's sincerity.
"What happens after I apologize?"
(I'll interpret this to mean "What happens after President Obama apologizes?") Well that depends on our President and his Administration of course. IMO the next step after the apology should be a statement by the President that we will be rapidly shifting gears and focusing our efforts on repair. There is much to repair in Iraq on many levels, a triage list is in order here. I would suggest humanitarian aid should be quite high on this list with seeing to the urgent needs of the millions of expatriated refugees topping it. Getting Iraq's hospitals, electric, water and sewers back online and the rebuilding of all Iraqi infrastructure using American funding and Iraqi labor would also go high on this list.
Eventually someone needs to clean up the depleted uranium oxide contaminants that spoil Iraqi lands. That is a HUGE one on my list of the horrors that needs addressing in Iraq. Also, if we truly expect a democracy in Iraq, (not that this is any of our concern imo, it is NOT our country to do with as we please), a rebuilding of the Iraqi middle class needs to happen.
"In what kind of position does apologizing--which acknowledges wrongdoing--put Bushco and my own administration?" Again this depends on what comes next. An apology and a continence of any crimes that we may be yet committing will do us little good. OTOH if after that apology we undertake steps to repair what we broke like I suggested earlier, that would put President Obama in the position of being a great humanitarian! I think having someone like that as our POTUS would be something we as a nation, could take a whole lot of pride in! I think that we would find a great many nations coming to our aid in that repair of Iraq as well because of the noble and selfless actions of our President. I agree that an apology is an admission of wrongdoing. We did indeed commit some ferocious wrongdoings and an admission of this is a good first step.
"Hello my name is America and I am addicted to...." (OK somewhat off topic)
Kicking an addiction requires that the addict first admit that there is indeed an addiction!!! As a nation this apology could be a first step to resolving an ongoing problem-a problem all but invisible to our fellow countrymen but not so invisible to most folks everywhere else, (and especially visible to our victims). We did a great many wrongs to the Native Americans, we did wrong by the Japanese Americans, we did a horrible wrongness to the peoples of both South and North Vietnam and as you point out we've done a nightmarish wrong to the citizens of Iraq! Ignoring this only allows the 'addiction' to continue. That addiction of course is one derived from greed and fear and arrogance. It's time we stopped being the bully nation, it's time to admit that we have made some terrible mistakes in the past and that we as a nation have learned from these mistakes. It's time we let the world know that We The People shall not let the horrors of another Iraq or another Vietnam happen again.
As to the position an apology would put this and the prior Administrations in: This would show the world that the Obama Administration sees the Bush Administration exactly as how most of the civilized world sees the Bush Administration: as a gang of International war-criminals who chose to ignore select sections of the Geneva Conventions while perpetrating a war against the citizens of Iraq in order to enrich further their close corporate chums. If President Obama should issue this apology, it will take some of the responsibility for the crimes committed by the Bush Administration off of the shoulders of We The People and place that responsibility on the shoulders of the crooks!
Do you like sharing in the crimes committed by the Bush Administration? I doubt you do and nor should We The People be held fully accountable either. Many of our fellow members of the electorate were duped by the bush crime family's propaganda program. There was a whole lot less of us believing those lies in this last election which is why in part that things worked out as they did. When We The People choose to ignore the crimes committed by OUR President, I believe that We The People become complicit in the eyes of our President's victims as well as in the eyes of much of the world.
Do you recall what happened to the citizens of the towns near the death camps in Post WWII Germany? Should We The People share such a fate because of the bush crime families crimes? Another-words who would you rather the Iraqi victims be angry with, the American citizens or the bush crime family? This apology followed up by a rapid repositioning of our efforts in Iraq will go a looooong way imo to soothing Iraqi and world animosity currently aimed our direction.
Furthermore it lays the grounds for a much needed Congressional investigation into those wrongdoings. Most of the citizens of our nation would be spellbound by the daily news of such investigations in the same way that we were once, as a nation, captivated by the OJ Simpson trial. Many of us on the left would cheer on the investigations knowing that Bush and his gang are guilty. OTOH, many on the right would see this as a chance to prove that we on the left were wrong! The facts could be laid bare for all to see! As our democracy requires an informed electorate, this then would be the information crucial to our future democratic process and equally crucial to the prevention of another near hostile takeover of our government. The end-product of the investigation would go a long way to healing and reuniting our nation, regardless of how the investigation turned out. (Most of our fellow Americans now think that OJ was indeed a murderer regardless of him being found not-guilty!)
"Beyond that, I just think Tutu is way out of line on this. It really is not his place." Well that's gonna have to be in the 'agree to disagree' category for us. IMO any citizen of this planet is equally qualified to ask President Obama to do what Archbishop Tutu asked. It matters not to me if the request comes from Osama Bin Laden or from a little old lady in Osh Kosh-if the Emperor is parading down the street in his birthday suit I don't think it should matter who is first to bring it to his attention.
I can see where one could argue that position or status is important and Archbishop Tutu's position is one which commands more attention than a homeless vet wandering the streets of Albuquerque. This to me means that the Archbishop's message will get out to more folks than that homeless vet's message would. I would have to agree with you if you called me biased because I am in favor of the message. Had I disagreed with the message I might have thought otherwise so I'll even own up to maybe being a hypocrite in this case. The message, imo, is an important one-one that needed to get out and I am glad it came from one of his stature in the world. I hope more folks follow his lead.
It appears that you and I are equally appalled at what has gone down in Iraq, which of course is a good thing to be in agreement with, but we are not in agreement on how to do something about it. I feel that an apology and then a rapid shift to a repair of the damages we did is a sensible course, one which will bear us much fruit in both the short and long runs. I suspect that you would like to see some sort of accountability accorded the crooks who perpetrated these crimes too but I am still not sure if your issue with the apology is one of timing or if you even feel any apology is warranted at all.
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