Lawyer says Guantanamo abuse worse since Obama (announced its closure)

[sabra]

Source: Reuters

LONDON (Reuters) - Abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has worsened sharply since President Barack Obama took office as prison guards "get their kicks in" before the camp is closed, according to a lawyer who represents detainees.

Abuses began to pick up in December after Obama was elected, human rights lawyer Ahmed Ghappour told Reuters. He cited beatings, the dislocation of limbs, spraying of pepper spray into closed cells, applying pepper spray to toilet paper and over-forcefeeding detainees who are on hunger strike.

The Pentagon said on Monday that it had received renewed reports of prisoner abuse during a recent review of conditions at Guantanamo, but had concluded that all prisoners were being kept in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

"According to my clients, there has been a ramping up in abuse since President Obama was inaugurated," said Ghappour, a British-American lawyer with Reprieve, a legal charity that represents 31 detainees at Guantanamo.

"If one was to use one's imagination, (one) could say that these traumatized, and for lack of a better word barbaric, guards were just basically trying to get their kicks in right now for fear that they won't be able to later," he said.

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/burningIssues/idUKTRE51O3TB20090225

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

Well, if you're not going to be held accountable

[Mari333]

3. you said it. nt

[barbtries]

8. and have no conscience

no soul, no empathy. it's always hard for me to realize just how terrible humans can be.

[bdamomma]

9. it will bite them back hard, some how it will bite them back

to all those who get off on causing pain and torture others.

[peace frog]

41. I used to think that way

Now it seems more likely that most of the torturers will suffer not one consequence for their despicable acts. However, I would love to be wrong about this.

[ixion]

2. this is why GITMO should have been closed immediately

rather than over a few months. Or, better yet, never opened in the first place.

[chill_wind]

4. Let the International Red Cross and the media in, then. And let them stay for a while.

If the Pentagon wants to insist everything is humane and up to code, not a problem to have observers, right?

[marshall]

6. Send 'em off to Afghanistan

And shut Gitmo down.

[Lucky Luciano]

30. Good call. The logistics of shutting Gitmo are too complicated

for an immediate shutdown. In lieu of that, the Red Cross would be good to have there while everything gets handled so that we know the Geneva Conventions are back in effect.

[chill_wind]

5. Oh- and P.S.-- DUMP Robert Gates! n/t

[mfeher1971]

7. Send them to The Hague

These are war crimes, plain and simple. From top to bottom, anyone involved in this needs to be sent to The Hague and The ICC. I want to see justice done for a change, because I voted for a change!

[Hubert Flottz]

11. "I voted for a change"

I did too...So much for that lie!

[duhneece]

10. Sadly, I predict these guards will come back to prison jobs

Too many of them will end up in our prisons, abusing our sons, daughters, brothers... And those who aren't sociopaths will come to realize the evil they've done and that knowledge will haunt them, ruin their relationships.

[Mugweed]

12. Is this our "troops" doing this?

I just want to know if I should feel unpatriotic for not supporting them.

[riverdeep]

32. You can never say bad things about our troops.

No matter what they do, they must always be supported. Excuses must be made for our side, while finding every excuse to dehumanize the other side. If any occurrences of poor duty are found even after all this, you must say it's just a few bad apples. If it's good enough for the Germans, it's good enough for us.

[suzie]

37. The defense lawyer says that guards joked with him

about physically abusing prisoners, unsolicited by him.

Is that a credible statement?

If not, does it raise any questions about the rest of his allegations?

[EFerrari]

13. I was afraid of this.

Hell. :(

[NM Independent]

14. This is torture...

In one of the six main camps at Guantanamo, the lawyer said all the detainees he knew were on hunger strike and subject to force-feeding, including with laxatives that induced chronic diarrhea while they were strapped in their feeding chairs.

"Several of my clients have had toilet paper pepper-sprayed while they have had hemorrhoids," Ghappour said.

That, to me, is a more terrifying experience than waterboarding (HUH? "Waterboarding" isn't in the spell checker here?).

[JenGatherer]

15. I really should

stay away from this forum while I'm trying to stop using my medication.

[valerief]

16. I wonder if it's worse or if it's just being more actively reported now that Obama is in office. nt

[Dukkha]

17. exactly why it was a HUGE mistake to wait a year

Totally unnecessary. it can be all torn down and relocated within 30 days.

[Still Sensible]

18. Isn't Holder supposed to be there in the next couple days? n/t

[sabra]

19. visited there this past Monday

[LaPera]

20. When you torture you find the sickest, meanest psychopathic guards possible who love their work from

the ranks of the military.

I'm sure if they weren't in the military they would be torturing & killing on the streets of our cities or in jobs like prisons where corruption is rampant....which is where they will be when their time and "fun" has ended in the military.

Without doubt, many even signed up just to go kill in Bush's wars, with hopes of being able to torture....those are the ones Bush/Cheney and company were hoping for.

[ermasdaughter]

21. This is so unfair....

Obama's been in office a month and now he's responsible for the torture in GITMO?! Come on you guys! It's one issue on a laundry list of BUSH fuck ups that he's charged with undoing. He'll get it done. Every one needs to calm down....

[BreweryYardRat]

22. THANK YOU.

And I guarantee it's impossible to close someplace like Gitmo down in a month.

[chill_wind]

23. I see this as a reflection on a Bush/Gates held-over Pentagon.

I know he needs transition time, but I hope he cuts him loose the first opportunity he gets.
Pres Obama made his intentions about continued abuse and barbaric prisoner treatment there fully known.

[TBF]

26. Maybe he should let some of the Int'l Aid groups in to make sure

the changes are being implemented. How much time does it take to say "no more torture"?

[chill_wind]

27. I'd agree-- it's what I remarked in post # 4. Also-- what would it take

to start getting a few military arrests/court-martials to underscore the new rules? I know nothing about military law, but this doesn't sound like adherence to "cleaning it up" under Pres Obama's new edicts.

[TBF]

28. OK, I found #4 (these threads get convulted) - your point about letting

some press in is very good as well.

[iconicgnom]

29. Yes. However, it's why he simply CAN'T just put the past behind him, looking to the future.

There has to be accountability - else there can't be a proper clean up.

[LaPera]

31. Who's implying that it's Obama's fault?

My post clearly mentions only "Bush/Cheney".

[tanngrisnir3]

34. Why is that w/out doubt?

Without doubt, many even signed up just to go kill in Bush's wars, with hopes of being able to torture....those are the ones Bush/Cheney and company were hoping for.

So you've, what, read studies on this?

[Joe Chi Minh]

24. K&R

[ProgressIn2008]

25. The torturers needn't fret - they'll have plenty of chances to come

And the Obama apologists will come up with new, shiny, inventive ways to spin their spin.

This shit was entirely predictable. That place should have been closed on day one.

[iconicgnom]

33. I don't know what you mean by "the Obama apologists". Please explain.

You seem to be accusing Obama of being a torturer.

You can't be that much of an idiot, can you?

[SeattleGirl]

35. I'd like to know too.

:shrug:

[liberalsince1968]

42. I know exactly what ProgressIn2008 means. And so do you. But if you really are that dense -

it means people who rationalize torture when Obama turns a blind eye to it - whey they probably had a horrified reaction to Bush promoting torture.

[iconicgnom]

45. Strange, I see no indication that "Obama turns a blind eye to it"

And I've seen NOBODY on DU rationalizing torture.

The problem isn't that I'm "dense", it's that you and "ProgressIn2008" are making this bullshit up.

[liberalsince1968]

46. Did you miss the part about abuse INCREASING?

So, just what is Obama doing about it...NOTHING.

[iconicgnom]

49. oh noes! it must be because I'm a torture supporter!!

dang, I guess I've been too busy sticking needles in the eyes of kittens to notice.

[dionysus]

50. this is a repeat of a similar go-round i had a few days ago... it will get funny pretty quickly..

;)

[dionysus]

48. ah, back to make an even larger fool of yourself than in the last obama-bash you went on?

:rofl: thank you for the free entertainment :rofl:

ps, no one here or in the obama admin is endorsing torture. you are lying...

[dionysus]

44. i think so, actually....

:rofl:

[No Elephants]

36. You get all the troops at Gitmo together and you tell them that each and

every accusation of torture moment on will result in, AT A MINIMUM, a court-martial and, if indicated, a dishonorable discharge. Then, you let in observers from the Red Cross, Amnesty International, etc.

Has any of that been done?

I love how everyone posts as though the only possible alternatives are to close the place yesterday and blame Obamadmin for everythinbg or allow business as usual or even worse and exonerate Obamadmin for everything.

[chill_wind]

39. Several posts already to that effect-- Intl Red Cross, observers, direct, immediate

and forceful repercussions for violations-- the fullest penalties that can be applied. (ie posts #4, 26, 27, 30 etc) I agree with you that it seems nowhere as simple as it sounds to just simply "close it yesterday"-- an example just came up a week ago of 17 Chinese prisoners being held for several years without charges. The Chinese govt is demanding to have them back and the US will not do it. knowing they will probably be executed once back in their home country. A U.S. judge finally ruled several months ago that they could be released to the U.S., but Bush lawyers appealed, putting it off into this admin and another U.S. federal judge just overturned that decision. No other countries are stepping up in the meantime because they don't want to get into it with the Chinese govt either. And those are just the case of a few still there. I just read yesterday that SOS Clinton while in Spain is getting them to possibly take some detainees, but they want to review every case they might take, first, and that's not going to happen overnight either. And where are the records that would help process all this in some far faster, more effective manner? Destroyed. It all borders on the seditious, and is continuing right now, it sounds to me.

[No Elephants]

47. Instead of saying "everyone" I should have said some people. But I did not see anything about

warning the troops about dishonorable discharge and other potential consequences of torture.

There are ways to deal with this short of an ill-considered, abrupt closing, on the one hand, or, on the other hand, allowing guards step up abuse. Too many act as though it must be one extreme or the other.

[treestar]

53. Accusation? Why should there be any results directly from that?

[Alcibiades]

38. We know everything is OK because Vice Admiral Walsh

says it is. Of course, if it were not OK, he would do the honorable thing and let us all know about it, no matter the backlash or implications for the complicity of the US Navy in all this.

He did know that everything in Gitmo would turn out to be OK before he inspected it. From before the Vice Admiral went to Gitmo:

"We believe that operations down at Gitmo have been in compliance ... for some time and are still so," Morrell said. "But we take this tasking from the White House very seriously. And that’s why the secretary has asked the four-star flag officer to go down there and put fresh eyes on the situation ... and bring back the most up-to-date assessment of detention operations."

and, of course, the same story after the actual inspection, never mind that he had essentially concluded it was in compliance before his inspection and also that he didn't need to actually talk with any of the ex-prisoners who have come forward alleging abuse:

The U.S. military's Guantanamo Bay prison camp currently complies with the Geneva Conventions' standards for humane treatment, a top U.S. Navy officer concluded on Monday in a review ordered by President Barack Obama.

....

Walsh said his team interviewed more than 100 guards, interrogators, senior officers and support staff, and more than a dozen captives held at Guantanamo as suspected al Qaeda or Taliban operatives.

He acknowledged his team had not spoken to former prisoners who have claimed they were tortured, nor did they attempt to determine whether the camp had complied with the Geneva standards throughout its seven-year history.

"I was not in a position to look back," Walsh said at a Pentagon briefing. "My mandate was specifically to determine whether the camp was in compliance today, and it is."

[McCamy Taylor]

40. Sounds like guards have been ordered to scare inmates so they wont testify later.

If the inmates are driven to depression or mental illness then they can be doped up when they are returned to their country of origin and the Bush administration can claim that they are not credible witnesses.

I would not blame this on random behavior by the guards. It is more likely part of a planned cover up.

[Bragi]

43. Arrest these war criminal saddists and shut the place down /nt

[Generator]

51. Wow and Holder said it was a fine and dandy place

Of course, the wife batterer is a nice guy too-except for those times he's beating the shit out of his wife.

This disturbed me.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/25/holder.guantanamo/

-- Attorney General Eric Holder, just back from his first trip to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, said Wednesday he is still determined to carry out President Barack Obama's order to close the prison, but admitted he was "impressed by the people," and said "the facilities are good ones."


Attorney General Eric Holder said he didn't witness any prisoner mistreatment during his trip.

Holder's positive assessment of "professionalism" at the prison was in distinct contrast to claims by many critics who charge Guantanamo Bay stands as a world-wide symbol of the alleged U.S. mistreatment of enemy combatants.


People are not making horrors up for fun. I don't think I could ever use the word "impressed" with Guantanamo in good conscience no matter what they showed me.

[Imagevision]

52. applying pepper spray to toilet paper?!! - what a job...