Reform women rabbis' prayer at Western Wall draws wrath of ultra-Orthodox

[IndianaGreen]

Source: Haaretz

Reform women rabbis' prayer at Western Wall draws wrath of ultra-Orthodox

By Cnaan Liphshiz, Haaretz Correspondent

North American female rabbis from the Reform Movement stirred up controversy at the Western Wall Wednesday, when they defied Orthodox Jewish customs by praying and singing aloud while wearing prayer shawls and skull caps at the holy site.

The women, who are in Israel for a gathering of the Central Conference of American Rabbis, arrived at the Western Wall at about 7 A.M. along with members of the Women of the Wall organization, which regularly organizes prayers at the site for ultra-Orthodox, Reform and Conservative women.

"There were about 70 of us praying when someone from the men's section started shouting that 'a woman's voice is lewd' and that our singing was offensive," said Anat Hoffman, an activist for Reform Judaism in Israel who attended the prayer. "I was ashamed in front of the guests from America."

Jackie Ellenson, one of the visitors who attended the prayer, told Haaretz that several ultra-Orthodox women then approached and demanded that the Reform prayers remain quiet and that the women rabbis take off the shawls and skull caps.

The Orthodox women, according to Hoffman, called the police after presenting themselves as the Western Wall "chastity keepers."

"These chastity keepers were loud and very rude, but there was no violence," Hoffman said. Hod Hasharon's chief Ashkenazi rabbi, Reuven Hiller - an outspoken critic of the Reform Movement - called the act "an unnecessary provocation," adding, "They may pray in their synagogues with shawls but why come to a place revered by all sects and offend people there?"

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1067028.html

---

The Jewish version of the Taleban strikes again at the women rabbis! Remember what Karl Marx said about religion?

[madaboutharry]

1. I am always praying that

people would learn to just live and let live.

[KGodel]

3. I am never praying, because it's a waste of time.

Religion is just a scam to keep the poor from killing the rich.

[defendandprotect]

19. "Religion is just a scam to keep the poor from killing the rich" ---LOVE IT--!!!

:nuke:

[biopowertoday]

2. religion with a big R is bringing us all down.

[IndianaGreen]

4. As Christians, we are sorry for being self-righteous judgmental bastards

Jay Bakker's Revolution Church, a gay accepting church.

http://www.revolutionnyc.com/

[No Elephants]

44. This incident does not seem to have been about Christians.

[IndianaGreen]

55. All religious extremists are alike regardless of religion

and they all are a threat to the peace and security of the world. And the "as Christians, we are sorry for being self-righteous judgmental bastards" quote comes from Jay Bakker's Revolution Church, a very enlightened and non-discriminatory church.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I have often prayed with Reform rabbis

they are cool people. They can come pray with me anytime.

[BuddhaGirl]

26. I attended a Seder a couple of years ago

with some Reform Jewish friends...it was very spiritual and I had a wonderful time :-)

[SheilaT]

6. Yet another example

of the essential underlying intolerance of religion, especially in its fundamentalist form.

[iandhr]

11. Reform Judaism

For the most part is open and progressive

[SheilaT]

32. While that is true,

and I was for twenty-seven years married to a Reform Jew (and this is to be in no way construed as a criticism of him) monotheistic religions are generally anti-women. The conservative or fundamental versions are extremely so.

Several years ago I had occasions to converse with a retired priest/minister from I forget which sect of Christianity. We had many good conversations, and he was as open minded as an agnostic as I might wish. However, as I pointed out to him in one of our final conversations, in the end, all monotheistic (and maybe the polytheistic religions as well although I don't know as much about them) really do come down to the core belief that what they say is the truth, and all else is false. Some are more condemnatory than others, but as far as I'm concerned the end result is the same.

For what it's worth, we chose to raise our sons in Reform Judaism, because I felt that in the end they were better off with some sort of religious grounding. I don't think my husband would have cared if we'd done nothing at all about their religious upbringing. I'd been raised Catholic, and it would have been highly hypocritical of my to try to raise them as Catholics. The older son currently self-identifies as Jewish, although he is not affiliated with any synagogue and doesn't observe any of the holy days or anything else that I'm aware of. The younger considers himself an atheist.

I do try very hard to respect the beliefs of others, although I may not always succeed in doing so.

[mikelgb]

51. "religious grounding"

oxymoron?

[Jefferson23]

7. 'a woman's voice is lewd' ??? Try that statement in my home, I dare ya, lol.

[tanngrisnir3]

8. The problem with the UO is that they think they own everything....

in regards to the wailing wall, proper observation, what's appropriate in public, etc....

[iandhr]

10. As Conservative Jew

I think this is wrong. And how the Ultra-Orthodox think the rest of us are not real Jews angers me. Also do not let the title Conservative Jew fool you. I go to a Synagogue that preforms gay marriages

[tanngrisnir3]

12. Wow! Haven't heard of too many Conservative Temples that do that....

and I'm in West LA, for crying out loud.

[Hawkeye-X]

23. For a long time I thought Conservative Jews = Republicans.

But it's not the case. It's just a little bit more liberal than Orthodox. My uncle happens to be one, and attends there. He is a Rushbot though.

Hawkeye-X

[IndianaGreen]

33. Conservative Judaism rose in response to excesses of Reform Judaism

I am a member of a Conservative/Reconstructionist congreagation. Generally the only significant difference, other than the use of Hebrew in worship, is that Conservatives adhere to the traditional view that a person born of a Jewish mother is a Jew, while Reform says that having either Jewish parent makes one a Jew (patrilineal descent). I see more commonality among Conservative and Reforms. The Orthodox are another matter. There are about 10 different variants of Orthodox in Israel alone, with significant differences among them.

[Hawkeye-X]

22. Heh. Just don't go to Mea She'erim in Israel

The worse of the lot in Jerusalem.

Very very ultra-Orthodox.

Hawkeye-X

[LanternWaste]

9. one man's opiate is another man's waste of commercial marketing

"Remember what Karl Marx said about religion?"

I'm afraid that I believe religion was replaced by television, which in turn has been replaced by I-pods, gaming consoles and cell phones-- as I've rarely seen anyone as entranced by religion for a weekend anymore, but put a joystick or the internet in front of someone and there goes the weekend...

But then again, one man's opiate is another man's waste of commercial marketing, good graphics on the packaging, and $200 shopping sprees for Grand Theft Auto I - XXV.

ed: spelling

[Penance]

15. Better games than religion

You can probably count the number of deaths directly related to games over the past 30 years on two hands. That definitely isn't the case with religion.

[LanternWaste]

49. I imagine we will all justify our own opiates... n/t

I imagine we will all justify our own choice of opiates...

[JerseygirlCT]

13. Revered by all sects - except those the ultra-orthodox don't like, apparently nt

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Betsy Ross]

16. If you entered a mosque, would you remove your shoes? n/t

[No Elephants]

45. The female rabbis should have removed their genitals before praying at the wall?

[Mari333]

17. ...

3 holy males...priest, rabbi, iman chorus line (kicking like the Rockettes holding their holy books):
"It was all made for ME, it was ordained by GOD, it's PA-TRI_A_ARCHY, right here explained by GOD!
He gave ME all dominion
cause it was His opinion
so who am I to sin, then , GOD?"

[Lilith Velkor]

18. That's what you get for praying to a god who hates women.

I have never understood why any woman who claims to have even a modicum of self-respect would have anything to do with a vile deity like that.

[defendandprotect]

20. Yes . . .

Pehaps self-hatred is required . . . ???

[Suji to Seoul]

25. I don't believe G-d hates women. I do believe, however, that sexist male religious and political

hustlers perverted a good idea into their own pathetic means.

Organized religion is a joke, which is why I support Conservative and Reform Judaism. It's about as unorganized as possible. No hierarchy, things change from Temple to Temple and everyone is a free agent to accept as much or as little as they want.

Everyone in my house is Jewish, even guests. And it's proper Jewish beliefs not to force the beliefs on other people, especially non-Jews. We are actually supposed to talk people out of converting when they want to convert.

[defendandprotect]

30. Makes sense . . . but . . .

what gender is your "god" . . . ?

Judaism and Catholicism are both organized patriarchal religions --

Judaism being the first to teach a one-god belief system --

The problem really isn't what any ONE individual believes -- the problem

is the Old Testament and the New Testament and those who preach it from

pulpits. Like Islam these books are filled with hatred for women in their

current form.

Certainly any Temple -- like any Church -- exists to spread its beliefs.

[Suji to Seoul]

37. My G-d is asexual.

I pray to G-d, not the Lord, Lady or anything else like that.

Rabbi could say God is male, but I believe G-d is asexual.

[defendandprotect]

53. Again, the problem isn't you --- the problem is organized patriarchal religion -- !!

And, the Bible/Old Testament which was written to cement patriarchy --

[Lilith Velkor]

34. From my perspective, all gods are fictional characters from books

That is not to say that fictional characters don't have power over people's lives; they most certainly do.

I admit that all I know about this one is from the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, but he sounds, well, not very nice.

I respect your right to believe whatever you want, of course. The not-being-pushy thing is what's really cool about living in a mostly Jewish neighborhood. Nobody bothers me about my paradigm.

[Suji to Seoul]

38. It's against our beliefs to push our religion or way of life on anyone

and any Jew that does isn't a truly believer. Sorry, but it's one part of Judaism that I believe in completely. Thy shall keep thy religion to thyself and never force it on others.

Which is why those idiot Orothodox people at the Western Wall have pissed me off!

[Jamastiene]

40. I have always been curious about marriage.

I have always heard that a person has to convert to Judaism to marry a Jewish person. Is that something that most people follow or is it possible to marry a Jewish person and have either no religion or another religion?

[Suji to Seoul]

52. My mother converted after marriage by her own choice, nothing more.

It's you're choice.

[PumaJ]

36. A god who hates women?

That is not the concept of God that I was raised with in Reform Judaism. When I was growing up in Reform Judaism during the 50's & 60's the semantics of the English language used to describe God were very male gender based. The English semantics have now been updated and are gender neutral. In the Hebrew of Torah, God is neither female or male, but rather both and neither, and both omnipresent and transcendent.

In Reform Judaism there is a realization that Jews hold a variety of understandings of God’s reality. But the bottom line is the affirmation of the reality and oneness of God, that every human being is created in the image of God and thus sacred, that all of God's creation is held in reverence and we recognize our human responsibility for its preservation and protection, that we encounter God's presence in moments of awe and wonder, in acts of justice and compassion, in loving relationships and in the experiences of everyday life. Torah is the foundation of Jewish life and we bring Torah into the world when we strive to fulfill the the highest ethical mandates in our relationships with others and with all of God's creation. We are partners with God in tikkun olam, the repairing of the world, just as we are obligated to seek tzedek, justice and righteousness, to decrease the gap between affluent and poor, act against discrimination and oppression, to pursue peace, to welcome the stranger, redeem those in physical, economic and spiritual bondage. By doing these acts we affirm social action and social justice as a central prophetic focus of traditional Reform Jewish belief and practice.

No evidence of a God who hates women. No evidence of such a human point of view put onto God.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews, such as those who participate in and live under the rules of the Haredi or Hasidic movements, seem to have the requirement to follow the many more rules and laws reportedly present in the "oral" Torah and recorded in the Mishnah, discussed, interpreted and expanded in the Gemara which together are known as Talmud. That is somewhat different than the Torah unrolled and read in synagogues. But such ultra-Orthodox Jews are not God and it was they, not God, who stepped in to protest the praying of the Reform Jewish female Rabbis.

In contrast Reform Rabbis have been on the forefront of social change, or example: in 1861, Rabbi David Einhorn had to flee Baltimore due to his uncompromising stand against slavery; Rabbi Stephen S. Wise was a cofounder of the NAACP and the American Civil Liberties Union, in addition he championed the strike against U.S Steel Corp., and was among the first to warn the world against Nazism; Rabbi Arthur Lelyveld had his head split open protesting segregation in Mississippi; Rabbis Balfour Brickner and Eugene Borowitz were among the "Young Turks" who practiced civil disobedience; Rabbi Maurice Eisendrath, the president of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, carried a Sefer Torah, as together with many other rabbis he marched with Martin Luther King, Jr., in Alabama, to protest and combat the indignities of racial inequalities; Rabbis Eugene Lipman and Richard Hirsch founded and established the Reform movement's Religious Action Center in Washington, D.C.; equal rights for women were high on the agenda of the Central Conference of American Rabbis; and currently Conference is engaged in efforts to secure the civil rights of gay people, pursuing the Torah's mandate to seek justice for all.

So, hooray for the women Rabbis of Reform Judaism who had the chutzpah to pray out loud at the Western Wall. For the Wall belongs to all Jews, not just the ultra-Orthodox.

[janet118]

50. I was brought up Catholic

It was that religion's attitude towards women that first made me aware that it was a fraud. And made me regard other belief systems suspiciously. Most major religions see women as: the source of sin, unclean, less than human, put here to bear children for men, subservient, unworthy to perform sacred rites and so on.

http://www.john-lennon.com/songlyrics/songs/Woman_is_the_Nigger_of_the_World.htm">John Lennon was right

[No Elephants]

54. God does not hate women. That is one of many stories men made up.

[defendandprotect]

58. The whole thing is made up by men . . . !!!!

[Hawkeye-X]

21. There are times where I'm embarrassed for my sect.

I've already turned to modern Orthodox, giving the women their choices. My wife is already defying her own mother's wishes that she NOT attend the bris of her own son this Sunday. We are both from the Orthodox bloodline, and my side of the family gets more and more flexible with traditions. My wife is starting her own rebellion against her parents based on our beliefs.

And I have to mention this: She grew up in an ultra-Orthodox area in Brooklyn (Boro Park)

Hawkeye-X

[defendandprotect]

31. Wow . . . guess it's premature to ask you . . .

WHY are Jews still circumcizing their sons?

Of course, many others are, as well!

Especially, since David was only nicked--- and

pediatricians say "NO" to circumcision.

[Hawkeye-X]

63. It's a rite of passage.

It's a common knowledge that Abraham circumsized himself and his son, Isaac by G-d's commandment, when Isaac was 8 days old. So, I must follow tradition (as I was circumsized and my father, and my grandfather, etc). My son will be having his bris milah (his very first mitzvah) this Sunday.

[Suji to Seoul]

24. As a deeply religious and Conservative Jew who tries to follow all 613 mizots,

this is an abombination.

We would all be sent to Hitler's ovens equally.

How embarrassing. Keep the faith, my Reform brothers and sisters. We are all Jews, no matter what the narrow minded think.

[McCamy Taylor]

27. WTF? I will never listen to any criticism of Palestine which claims they oppress women again.

Obviously Israel oppresses women, so no fair claiming that Israel is the champion of the fairer sex.

The United States gives money to a theocracy which allows the public humiliation of American women why?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jamastiene]

42. I didn't see anywhere in the article that said this was an official

Israeli government policy. I just saw where some fundamentalists were rude to women. That can happen anywhere. It's unsavory and rude to yell at people, but nowhere in the article did it say the women were removed or stopped. It just says some people were rude to them. Last time I checked, you can't exactly regulate rudeness.

[Behind the Aegis]

56. You don't know much about Israel, do you?

Israel doesn't oppress women. Israel isn't a theocracy, which destroys your stupid claim. As for not "listening" about Palestinian oppression of women, I doubt you ever did listen.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. Should reply "The voices of men are those of rapists and murderers."

Statistically would be correct.

[riverdeep]

35. Patriacrchy is part of the DNA of organized religion.

It's like a black guy going to a KKK rally because he likes the food. It's not going to work, they hate you. That hatred reveals itself in a myriad of ways, from the texts, to the power structure, to customs, etc. Why women feel a need to associate themselves with ANY of it is amazing to me, but then the attraction of religion itself is a mystery to me.

[No Elephants]

47. Patriarchy is part of the DNA of most of the world. Men ruled and oppressed women. Organized

religion was just another part of the male power structure. Indeed, there were often state religions and deities associated with specific locales. Judaism was, I believe, the first religion that did not know geographic boundaries, but traveled with the people.

[Jamastiene]

41. Why doesn't it surprise me that there are zealots (fundamentalists)

in every religion? Nothing surprises me any more.

[defendandprotect]

59. Of course, because every nation, every religion has its right wing ....

nuts ---

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. Since people coined the term "Talibornagain" for evengelical extremists, it's only fair...

...that THOSE fuckers have a name for them too.

I suggest "Torahliban."

[Eryemil]

46. I like reformJudaism the best, but I would like them even more...

...if they stopped butchering their babies.

How such a progressive religious movement, arguably one of the most sane religious sects around, can justify such a thing is beyond my ability to comprehend.

[No Elephants]

48. Everybody needs equal rights. Women, gays, members of racial, ethnic and religious

minorities, EVERYbody. One simple rule would fix so much for so many.

[defendandprotect]

60. /Rule #1 -- get rid of all organized patriarchal religions and their writings . . .!!!

[The abyss]

57. I see that the religiously insane are still with us…

How heartening.

[defendandprotect]

61. Getting them out into the air and sunshine is a positive move ... IMO.

[The abyss]

62. Yes –

I somehow always see them as “The Family”. Omega Man.

I like your idea – air & sunshine!

[NechFried]

64. Western Wall prayers

I usually agree that people should live and let live. However, in this case I don't. This group of reform rabbis came to the Western Wall, an extremely Holy site that has cultural norms associated with it, and proceeded to go against those norms. In this way they insulted the Holiness of the site and the people praying there. As they say, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." There is no need to bring your own rituals to a place that already has a set of rituals in place. On another note, if you yourself can't be at the Western Wall praying, I found a website that will pray there for you, for 40 days, which is a Kabbalistic segulah. All you have to do is sign up for a Western Wall prayer request for 40 days.