Democrats Assail Withdrawal Plan

[TacticalPeek]

Source: Washington Post


Democrats Assail Withdrawal Plan

Obama Meets With Hill Leaders Over The Number of Troops Staying in Iraq

By Anne E. Kornblut and Paul Kane
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, February 27, 2009; A03

President Obama sought yesterday to quell growing complaints from members of Congress about his plans for drawing down troops in Iraq, inviting lawmakers to a White House meeting on the eve of a North Carolina speech in which he is expected to announce that he will pull out many combat troops by August of 2010.

After House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) complained that the level of troops -- 50,000 -- who would remain in Iraq is too high, other senior Democrats voiced similar concerns. Not one member of the Democratic leadership, except for Sen. Richard Durbin (Ill.), defended the new Obama plan, which will take three months longer than he promised and still leave a significant force structure on the ground.

White House officials said Obama had reached his decision after consulting with military commanders and would unveil the details in his address today during a trip to Camp Lejeune, N.C. Yet even before making the plan official, Obama faced stiff resistance from members of his own party as well as from some Republicans who argued that the idea of a withdrawal would not have been possible had it not been for the additional troops -- the "surge" -- that he opposed.

On Capitol Hill, Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) registered his complaints about the troop levels that will remain in Iraq even after 2010. ... "I'm happy to listen to the secretary of defense and the president, but when they talk about 50,000, that's a little higher number than I had anticipated," Reid said.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/26/AR2009022603416.html

[Jackpine Radical]

1. It's the LBJ Disease.

Obama doesn't want to look like a loser by pulling out and having the country collapse so the Republicans can whine that he threw away the sacrifices of the troops who died there. Unfortunately, that's what's gonna happen, whether he pulls out now or later.

[unkachuck]

2. exactly....

....Iraq is going to collapse as soon as we leave, whenever we leave....the sooner we get it over with, the better....

[defendandprotect]

8. We've been bombing Iraq for 20 years!!! Killed almost a million -- maybe more???

Whose scorecard are we working with?

You can't have Obama arguing that we're in dire straights financially AND

not stop both of these wars!

[No Elephants]

20. Wars and rumors of wars create jobs. Guns, and butter, easy on the butter.

[Bandit]

29. Right that is why over the last eight years of war we have done so damn well economically.

Thank God for War or else our citizens might lose their jobs. D'Oh...

[defendandprotect]

36. Like it -- wait, I love it--!!!

Nice post!!!

[No Elephants]

52. You don't get irony? Or subtlety? ( "Easy on the butter.")

[defendandprotect]

35. ..and the Drug War keeps police busy and fills our prisons . . .

All negatives and should be stopped --

Throw the MIC into the river --

[No Elephants]

55. That's the spirit!

[llmart]

43. That is incorrect.

I can't remember where I read it but I have read that it is a misperception that war creates jobs and is good for the economy. It isn't. This war is a perfect example of that.

[No Elephants]

53. Please see Post # 52.

[Thothmes]

49. that was LBJ's program

the Great Society and Vietnam

[No Elephants]

54. Please see Post # 52. And LBJ's program was heavy on war and heavy on butter. I think the phrase

may have been used in the Eisenhower administration, too, but I am not sure about that one.

More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model

[Thothmes]

56. If I remember correctly the phrase "Guns and Butter"

came from Bismarks Germany in the 1870s.

[TheWraith]

12. Are we seriously going to play this game?

Claiming that by withdrawing, Obama's really continuing the war?

[Two Americas]

15. interesting switch there

The other way around would be more like it - continuing the war while claiming to be withdrawing.

How is wanting to end the war "a game?"

[No Elephants]

21. So, you want to play the game where a reduction of troop levels in Iraq and increasing them in

Afghanistan equals a withdrawal in Iraq? Fine I'll play that one instead, as long as everyone is clear that they are both games.

[EFerrari]

17. It's theater. Do really think Nancy Pelosi cares how many troops he leaves there?

I've known too many Spaniards.

[No Elephants]

22. Okay, I'll bite. What does the number of Spaniards you've known have to do with anything.

[EFerrari]

34. It's from The Princess Bride.

Montoya: "Will you take my word as a Spaniard?"

Wesley: "Sorry, I've known too many Spaniards."

[No Elephants]

50. Sorry to miss the reference. I've seen a lot of Princess Bride references on this board. I may have

to watch it again. And actually pay attention this time. Apparently, it was more interesting than I realized the first time around.

[ConcernedCanuk]

3. USA has it's dick where it does not belong - pull it out NOW!

.
.
.

But as I mentioned in another thread

JFK bucked the military industrial complex

we know what happened

So President Barack Obama, being a smart cookie, may realize that if he tries to move too quickly

he will achieve nothing

because he will join JFK

The PNAC Gang still runs the USA

don't forget it . . .

[biopowertoday]

5. Feingold is concerned also...........

..............Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.) issued a statement saying he is "concerned" about the level of troops that would remain in Iraq.

During his daily briefing, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Obama is comfortable with his plan, which he will formally announce in a speech shortly before noon. The president asked his national security team "to put together a plan that they and he believed would accomplish the goal of removing our combat forces from Iraq in the most responsible way," Gibbs said. "The president will lay out exactly what that plan is. And I think tomorrow you'll see a president and the national security leadership comfortable with the recommendations that have been made and accepted by the commander in chief."

Hours before the president met with congressional leaders, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates also defended the plan, saying the residual forces would have a targeted mission and that "the thinking all along had been that any force left after we stopped combat operations would be focused on the counterterrorism mission, on training, advising, assistance."

[No Elephants]

24. Sec. Gates ALSO defended the plan? Well, that settles it. I'm sold. [sarcasm]

[defendandprotect]

37. We have a whopping Taj Mahal of a US Embassy -- and 20 military bases . . .

All should be closed --

What did that Embassy finally cost us ???

[No Elephants]

23. Stop bashing Cheney.

[ConcernedCanuk]

26. LOL

.
.
.

good one! - :thumbsup:

[win_in_06]

4. No surprise here. His perspective on Iraq has changed.

He kept Sec Gates, and it sounds like he is basically staying with the Bush plan

[TheWraith]

13. Mmm, yeah, pro-war, anti-war, they're exactly the same.

:eyes:

[Two Americas]

16. Bush said he would withdraw the troops

Once Iraq was stabilized blah blah.

[defendandprotect]

6. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO STAY!!! We can get out in three months . . .or sooner!!!

How can Obama argue that we're in an extremely serious economic situation ---

and NOT stop both wars??????

Further -- Obama should cut the Social Security FICA payments and STOP building

a Surplus in SS which is funding our national debt for these wars!!!

No money to borrow? Good!!

[defendandprotect]

7. We should also have more Democrats talking about national debt -- $56-60 TRILLION...???

what is the figure now ---???

We can't afford war -- we can't afford 45,000 private contractors in Iraq!

Nature cannot tolerate more wars -- more violence.

Iraq has already over 20 years been bombed back to the stone age!!

Who'll love us for that???

[elocs]

9. Ultimately, one way or another, Iraq is going to have to work out its own destiny and its own future

with its own blood, sweat, and tears, its own struggle. We cannot force our own form of government and our own way of life upon them. We live in an imperfect and unfair world and this country is incapable of saving other peoples from themselves. In the end are we really capable of saving ourselves from ourselves? Or is it as Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us"?

[defendandprotect]

38. After 20 years of US bombing them - and this latest 7 year catastrophe????

Just "MoveOn!" . . . ??

I think we're going to owe them a few billions plus in lawsuits --

and hopefully World Criminal Courts will be considering this in the future!!!

[Oregone]

10. Wouldn't it of been easier to rename all 150 K "Non-combat" troops?

Then he wouldn't even have to come up with a withdraw plan. War over. Its the perfects Newspeak.

[wroberts189]

11. He is playing rope a dope with the pubs again. knr

and they fall for it every time.. this time the congress dems are in on it.


Get everyone to say you need to get them out sooner... get the media to look at the latest "rift" in the Dems.


then totally cave in with political cover. Perhaps get rid of Patreus as well. I hear there is an office in the basement.


Watch for a "compromise"

[Left Coast2020]

14. Let me make sure I understand this.

The President is listening to the "generals" on the ground. WTF? I thought Obama was in charge? Am I missing something here? What the hell do the generals know about running a country or addressing issues important at home? All generals do is fight wars. They don't know squat about anything else. They want to keep fighting so they can pad theie salary, or retirement. :banghead:

[No Elephants]

25. Ah yes. The now famous "Obama has a plan within a plan within a plan" gambit.

[Lasher]

18. August 2010 isn't good enough.

He promised 16 months. That makes it May 20, 2010. I expect him to keep this promise.

[defendandprotect]

39. Agree -- that's sad news, indeed.

[Lasher]

42. I've been through this before.

In five weeks since the inauguration, 16 months just turned into 19 months. With a year and a half to go now, there's plenty of time for realities on the ground to force perpetual adjustments, keeping our combat military there forever. I no longer trust Obama to get us out of the entanglement in Iraq.

[defendandprotect]

44. Well, at least he didn't announce a SECRET plan ....!!!

:evilgrin:

[Lasher]

47. Ha ha, you know the drill too.

I'm depressed about this but we gotta keep our sense of humor. :thumbsup:

[Optical.Catalyst]

19. President Obama should withdraw our troops sooner, rather than later

Keeping 50,000 troops on the ground in Iraq is unacceptable. We have no business being in Iraq at all, much less having a standing army of five divisions of combat troops there.

Get out of Iraq now!

[leftchick]

27. now who didn't believe we would leave at least that many there?

we did not build that embassy & those bases for the Iraqis now did we. Between this and the 60 billion more for Bagram the plan is to stay in the Mid East forever. Note he always used the weasel words, "combat troops".

[No Elephants]

28. Because the military has so many troops that have nothing to do with

combat. *rolls eyes* Give me a break.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Eisenhower had "military advisors" in Vietnam, not combat troops. Riiiiight.

Give me a break.

[leftchick]

41. no mention of private contractors either

didn't Xe/Blackwater renew a contract? There could be 50-100,000 of them left behind.

[ManiacJoe]

45. You seem to be confusing...

... "contractors" with "security contractors".

As of Aug 2008 there were about 10K-20K security contractors from multiple agencies according to previous reports.
All other contractors are doing maintenance, construction, logistics, transportation, etc.

As of Jan 2009 the number of contractors from Blackwater was approx 1000.

[ManiacJoe]

46. My guess was closer to 20K.

The Iraqis still need all the training instructors they can get.

"Combat troops" are not weasel words, they are an accurate description. The US military has instructors in dozens of countries at any given time. No one has ever talked about a quick withdrawal of 100% of the troops from Iraq.

[riverdeep]

30. Sort of off topic-

But we can't let them get away with this, keep getting away with this statement- "...as well as from some Republicans who argued that the idea of a withdrawal would not have been possible had it not been for the additional troops -- the "surge" -- that he opposed."

NO!!! It is NOT true. The 'surge' didn't have jack squat to do with it.

Satellite images taken at night show heavily Sunni Arab neighborhoods of Baghdad began emptying before a U.S. troop surge in 2007, graphic evidence of ethnic cleansing that preceded a drop in violence, according to a report published on Friday.

"Our findings suggest that the surge has had no observable effect, except insofar as it has helped to provide a seal of approval for a process of ethno-sectarian neighborhood homogenization that is now largely achieved," Agnew's team wrote in their report.

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1953066020080919

As for leaving troops, I'll hear him out first. Don't forget that even Pelosi, who opposes it, still wants anywhere from 15,000 to 20,000 troops to remain.

[Mari333]

31. this is still bush's illegal occupation but its being legitimized

as long as the bush admin isnt being held accountable for it..its a high crime, and the obama admin is trying to fix a high crime...pelosi and the other dems dont want to go after bush and say its a high crime, they just want to play politics, as does obama, and squabble about the troop size..how about someone coming right out and saying 'this war is an illegal occupation and should have never happened, and its time those who started it are investigated, and if found guilty, tried for criminal behaviour'..until they do that, they keep legitimizing the damned thing
if anything , the united states needs to apologize to the world . on their knees. for letting it get that far.
its like hitler invading poland, and then a new admin coming in and telling hitler to go to austria and do a speaking tour while they fix his mess.
bring all the troops home from both these occupations and start getting a spine, obama and the rest of the dems..quit playing politics for 2012.

[Bragi]

32. Obama should stop listening to self-serving generals...

... and instead listen to the people who elected him.

[defendandprotect]

40. Evidently, he didn't replace the Joint Chiefs -- !!! Wow . . . not good!!!

[mike_c]

33. way too liitle, way too late....

This is shameful.

[defendandprotect]

48. REMINDER: Let Pres. Obama know how you feel about this issue -- !!!

[nolabels]

51. And request he watch the movie " A few good men" a couple times

Effing pompous brass are often the last people you would want to seek advice from in matters of military concern x(

[daleo]

57. You can't be a little bit pregnant

And you can't half withdraw. It's one or the other.