Pope warns of misuse of religion

[IndianaGreen]

Source: BBC News

Pope warns of misuse of religion

Page last updated at 16:52 GMT, Saturday, 9 May 2009 17:52 UK

Pope Benedict XVI has warned against the misuse of religion for political ends, in a speech to Muslim leaders on the second day of his visit to Jordan.

Speaking in the King Hussein Mosque in Amman, he argued that religion was a force for good, but its "manipulation" caused divisions and even violence.

The pontiff is also due to visit Israel and the West Bank on an eight-day tour.

Analysts say he is keen to improve ties with the Islamic world. A speech he made in 2006 offended many Muslims.

Some groups in Jordan had called for him to apologise for the speech, in which he quoted a medieval scholar who criticised the Prophet Muhammad.




Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8041421.stm

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The chutzpah of the former Hitler Youth Pope to speak about politicizing religion when he, as well as his predecessor, used religion as a political weapon to advance their medieval views on society.

[mwb970]

1. Now someone should warn the Pope about the misuse of religion. /nt

[burning rain]

36. He wants politicians to stop attending church? How odd.

^

[orestes]

2. So can I expect the Catholic Church

to reimburse me for a new Irony meter? Because mine just went nuclear.

[Moonwalk]

15. "Irony Meter" Yes! Brilliant!

:rofl:

I couldn't have posted a more perfect and brilliant response. I'm going to be laughing all day long. Thank you!

[WillParkinson]

3. At least he's an expert in that field...

Seriously.

[polichick]

4. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[skepticscott]

5. And in other news

Stalin warns against misuse of communism.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

6. .

[east texas lib]

7. Well, the Pope should know...

Being the CEO of one of the most misused religions ever.

[patrice]

8. No one listened to the previous Pope when he said Bush's War was not "Just", so I expect

no one to listen to Benedict either.

Depending upon how you look at it, one religious minority or the other is responsible for putting BushCo over the line in 2000 & 2004, but it sure as hell wasn't the Muslims!

[No Elephants]

14. The Diebold cult.

[glinda]

18. Previous Pope had a much better aura.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Previous Pope was the antithesis of an anti-Semite

while the current one.... :-(

[glinda]

57. Wasn't it interesting that Pope John Paul helped a woman escape being killed by

carrying her and was liked by Muslims and the Dali Lama and Benedict studied to be a Nazi??????? and is not liked by Muslims and to date I do not think the Dali Lama has had any contact with him. Benedict's behavior all the way around seems as if he is attempting to justify his "anger, hatred and plain old bizarraro actions". He is evil I think. Evil and angry.

[IndianaGreen]

61. Hitler Youth member Ratzinger would have called the SS to take the Jewish woman

back to the concentration camp, then claim decades later that he was only following orders or forced to do what he did.

I didn't agree with JPII's views on women and LGBTs, but I loved him for what he did to remedy centuries of his Church's anti-Semitism.

[glinda]

66. I left the Catholic Church but PJPII made me less hostile towards the Church.

Ratzi will have hell freeze over before he acknowledges PJPII's goodness. He was a close advisor (or liked to think so) towards the end but many observed he was radically conservative.

[glinda]

67. BTW I agree with what you said also.

[Zhade]

65. Unless you were gay. Or an atheist. Or pro-choice. Or...

The white-washing continues unabated, I see.

[bemildred]

9. In Jordan, Pope Deplores ‘Ideological Manipulation’

AMMAN, Jordan — Visiting a mosque on the second day of his closely watched first visit to the Holy Land, Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday denounced the “ideological manipulation of religion” and called for greater understanding between the Christian and Muslim faiths.

Speaking outside Al-Hussein bin-Talal mosque in Amman, Benedict said that because of “the burden of our common history so often marked by misunderstanding,” Christians and Muslims alike should “strive to be seen” as faithful worshipers of God.

In a speech that also touched on a central theme of his papacy and thought, the tension between faith and reason, Benedict said that “the ideological manipulation of religion, sometimes for political ends,” was often “the real catalyst for tension and division, and at times even violence in society.”

Relations between the Vatican and Muslims were strained in 2006 when, in a speech in Regensburg, Germany, Benedict quoted a Byzantine emperor who said Islam had brought things “evil and inhuman.”

Death to the dogmatic ideologues!!!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/world/middleeast/10pope.html?ref=global-home

[pattmarty]

10. This is fucking priceless. The "church" has used their religion.............

.......as a propaganda tool and much worse for how fucking long has it been now??? Fuck the pope!!!

[Aragorn]

38. Isn't it clear

that this is the precise equivalent of "appeal(s) to bipartisanism" in our country?

As in Catholics and Muslims agree that religion should not be used to manipulate the masses".

But it's OK to opiate them. (A new verb)

[pattmarty]

45. Yep. Although I believe Marx (or possibly Engels) "discovered" ............

..............the verb.

[napi21]

11. He should send that speech to the Pubs too! n/t

[xfundy]

12. The religion industry is self-regulating and would never do anything wrong!

Just like the industrial pig farms. And with the same result.

[onehandle]

13. "required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939"

Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth, as membership was required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939, but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith, according to biographer John L. Allen, Jr. In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

[IndianaGreen]

16. According to wiki

This Pope also wants to canonize Hitler and Mussolini's favorite Pope, Pius XII.

From the mouth of the Christian faith's founder:

The Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. 19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207%20;&version=51;

[onehandle]

21. And yet the Hitler Youth smear is still meaningless.

There are a lot of reasons to dislike this Pope. That's not one of them.

It smears the young male population of Germany during that time. These kids were kids in a dictatorship.

Keep attacking kids. There you go.

[IndianaGreen]

22. They all loved Hitler and the bands and parades

The real anti-nazis ended up in concentration camps, in exile, or dead.

[onehandle]

25. Hoo boy.

I'm done with you.

[Thothmes]

34. Proof of your statement is?

or is this more mindless flatulence.

[onager]

63. Well, the Robo-Defenders seem to be smearing the anti-Nazi kids...

Resistance: Both Joseph Ratzinger and his brother, Georg, have said that “resistance was impossible” at the time and, therefore, it’s not surprising or morally culpable that they also “went along.”

This is also not true. First, it’s insulting to the many who risked their lives to resist the Nazi regime, both in organized cells and on an individual basis...

Elizabeth Lohner, a Traunstein resident whose brother-in-law was sent to Dachau as a conscientious objector, has been quoted as saying, “It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others. The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice.” Note: Traunstein was the Ratzingers' hometown.

And this is an overall good summary:

While Ratzinger was not a Nazi in the past and Benedict XVI is not a Nazi now, there is more than enough reason to question his handling of his past. It appears that he hasn’t been honest with others — and probably not honest with himself — about what he did and what he could have done.

It’s simply not true that resistance was impossible at the time. Difficult, yes; dangerous, yes. But not impossible. John Paul II participated in anti-Nazi theater performances in Poland, yet there is no evidence of Joseph Ratzinger even doing this much.

...were he any average person, that would be the end of the story. But he isn’t an average person, is he?

He’s the pope, a person who is supposed to be the successor of Peter, head of the Christian Church, and symbol of unity for all Christendom.

You don’t have to be morally perfect to hold such a position, but it’s not unreasonable to expect such a person to have come to terms with their moral failings, even the moral failings that occurred in youth when we don’t usually expect a great deal.

It was an understandable mistake or failing not to do more against the Nazis, but still a failing that he hasn’t come to terms with — it sounds rather like he is in denial. In a sense, he has yet to repent; yet he was still considered the best of all the candidates for the papacy.

http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi/i/RatzingerNazi_2.htm

[Thothmes]

33. Any sources beside Wiki

that Hitler and Mussolini favored Pius XII.

[closeupready]

49. And how did he suffer for refusing to join?

And after you answer that, how enthusiastic was Colin Powell about his speech in front of the UN?

[onehandle]

53. Child following orders = Colin Powell making an ass out of himself

:crazy:

[liberal N proud]

17. Really?

WOW! Just fucking wow!

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. And he will make this same speech in the USA?

[jmondine]

23. Pot to Kettle

[McCamy Taylor]

24. Hypocrisy thy name is Pope Benedict. What do you expect from a former Hitler youth?

[onehandle]

26. "required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939"

Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth, as membership was required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939, but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith, according to biographer John L. Allen, Jr. In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

[onager]

29. Hey, Robo-Papal-Defender...you're leaving out a few facts...

The kids in the famous White Rose resistance movement weren't much older than Pope Panzer. And while membership in the Nazi youth orgs was theoretically compulsory, well...:

Hans Scholl was a member of the Hitler Youth until 1937, and Sophie was a member of the Bund Deutscher Mädel.

Membership of both groups was compulsory for young Germans, although many such as Willi Graf, Otl Aicher, and Heinz Brenner never joined.

...The group was motivated by ethical and moral considerations. They came from various religious backgrounds. Willi and Katharina were devout Catholics. The Scholls, Lilo, and Falk were just as devoutly Lutheran. Traute adhered to the concepts of anthroposophy, while Eugen Grimminger considered himself Buddhist. Christoph Probst was baptized a Catholic shortly before his execution. Earlier he had followed his father's theistic beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

[onehandle]

32. Gosh! I guess any child that didn't resist was just shit.

How nice it must be for you to resist for them from the back seat and 70+ years later.

[onager]

44. Just as nice...

...as you defending Pope Panzer "from the back seat" 70 years later, I reckon.

As for the non sequitur about Sen. Byrd, I don't believe he's handed down any unilateral decisions recently that directly interfere with the rights of women, gays, etc.

Maybe you can enlighten me, from that interesting parallel universe where all the Papal Apologists seem to live.

[onehandle]

46. I didn't say anything about that shit.

Nor did I defend anything that this Pope has done as Pope. I think many of the church's policies suck.

But to characterize him with a forced membership from his dictator ruled childhood is just plain stupid.

[closeupready]

50. If Ratzinger was merely just another child, he doesn't deserve to be Pope.

If he had refused, then we could talk.

[onehandle]

52. Seriously? DUers are beating up on scared children living in dictatorships?

Would you like to kick around the children of Darfur?

C'mon. Take your best shot. They're such easy targets.

[No Elephants]

59. Again, not blaming a 14 year old, but how do we know he was scared?

[onehandle]

62. I retract the word scared. Here you go minus your straw man parse...

Seriously? DUers are beating up on children living in dictatorships?

Would you like to kick around the children of Darfur?

C'mon. Take your best shot. They're such easy targets.

[Thothmes]

35. the facts are the kid was a kid

Do you bash Senator Byrd because in his younger days he voluntarily joined the KKK. According to your theory, you folks should bash the hell out of Byrd because he was in the KKK at an ge a hell of a lot older than 14 years. Should we execute 14 year old for their decisions.

[Aragorn]

39. yes, we should

but I would say not after one "repents" openly, and denounces past mistakes. BTW a lot of folks apparently felt gwb did enough of that to overlook his "past" alcohol abuse.

[Thothmes]

40. Exactly how many war crimes does the current pope have

to repent for. Was he a guard at Sobibor, maybe Auschwitz. Did he participate in the Malmady massacre? Byrd tried to filibuster the Civil Rights bill. that is a hell of a lot more serious indictment of a man than being a 14 year old in a goverment required "boy scout program"

[No Elephants]

60. I do bash Byrd for joining. However, I recognize that he repented, apologized,

redeemed himself and not done anything remotely like that again. Nonetheless, that is not saying that joining was not wrong or excusing him for joining. However, as pointed out, Byrd was older than 14 when he made that choice. Another difference is that the law of the land did not require Byrd to join.

[Dorian Gray]

55. They were all in college

when they joined the White Rose resistance movement.

There is a world of difference between 14 years old and 18 years old.

That doesn't mean that Benedict shouldn't be criticized for other things, but for this.... I don't agree.

[No Elephants]

58. I am not blaming Benedict for doing what the law required.But, those bolded words need a source

other than wiki.

[Warpy]

27. Somebody hand that man a mirror

because nobody tries to insert its dogma as civil law more than the Church of Rome does.

[Hulk]

28. Pope Hypocrite

I'm so turned off with the Catholic Church these days. The more they stick their noses into the politics, the further out I pull my ass.

I was born, raised and still practice my faith...but it's becoming increasingly more difficult as each day goes on. I'm actually ashamed of the heirarchy...this dip shit included.

He should be lecturing his own nutcakes, like that pudgy catholic hate monger that the propaganda network hosts every few days. He needs to shut his stinking mouth, mind his own business...and speak for HIMSELF...and not try to imagine he is speaking for anyone but himself and the lunacy fringe of the Catholic faith. Granted..there are a lot of them, but there are a lot more like myself that wish they would all just SHUT THE F*CK UP!

[Skittles]

30. he could use himself as a prime example

[MaineDem]

31. I hope the Catholic Church in Maine is listening

They're involved in the repeal/veto of the Marriage Equality Law. How very hypocritical!

[burning rain]

37. He wants politicians to stop attending church? How odd.

Most politicians' only use for religion is to milk it for political gain.

[Demeter]

41. Pardon Me

:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

42. Talking about calling the kettle black...

[Baby Snooks]

43. Just more hypocrisy...

Just more hypocrisy from a hypocrite who has done the very thing with his "dictums" to Catholics in the United States.

"Do as I say, not as I do......."

[Vidar]

47. You're the expert, asshole!

[and-justice-for-all]

48. Awsome!! So is the Pope going to mind his own fucking

business and shut the fuck??!

The catholic church and other religious factions have done NOTHING but use their religious dogma as a political weapon. RAPTURE ALREADY, DAMN!

[Donnachaidh]

51. you do have to give him one thing -- he's got one HUGE set of balls to be saying this.

Now, IF he was serious, he'd also be carrying this message to Israel, to the Whackjob Fundies and his OWN flock. But I wouldn't hold yer breath on THAT being done anytime soon...

[shanti]

54. hear him tell it...

:eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

56. pot meet kettle. nt

[Zhade]

64. HA! Religion itself is the manipulation!

NT!