White House To Declassify “Holy Grail” Torture Report That Could Undercut Cheney

[kpete]

Source: The Plum Line

The Plum LineGreg Sargent's blog
White House To Declassify “Holy Grail” Torture Report That Could Undercut Cheney

There’s a big piece of news about Dick Cheney and torture buried toward the end of this big Washington Post piece about the torture wars.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/09/AR2009050902489.html?hpid=moreheadlines

Specifically: The White House has decided to declassify and release a classified 2004 CIA report about the torture program that is reported to have found no proof that torture foiled any terror plots on American soil — directly contradicting Cheney’s claims. The paper cites “allies” of the White House as a source.

Dem Congressional staffers tell me this report is the “holy grail,” because it is expected to detail torture in unprecedented detail and to cast doubt on the claim that torture works — and its release will almost certainly trigger howls of protest from conservatives. Tellingly, neither the CIA nor the White House knocked down the story in response to my questions, with spokespeople for both declining comment. Here’s the key nugget from the Post piece:

***Government officials familiar with the CIA’s early interrogations say the most powerful evidence of apparent excesses is contained in the “top secret” May 7, 2004, inspector general report, based on more than 100 interviews, a review of the videotapes and 38,000 pages of documents. The full report remains closely held, although White House officials have told political allies that they intend to declassify it for public release when the debate quiets over last month’s release of the Justice Department’s interrogation memos…

*** Although some useful information was produced, the report concluded that “it is difficult to determine conclusively whether interrogations have provided information critical to interdicting specific imminent attacks,” according to the Justice Department’s declassified summary of it.



Read more: http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/white-house-to-declassify-holy-grail-torture-report-that-could-undercut-cheney/

[redqueen]

1. Cheney needs to end up in prison for life. (nt)

[LaPera]

35. If congress prosecutes fairly & fully as they absolutely should Cheney should go to prison for life

[liberal N proud]

2. The world needs to know

what these war criminals did. Then if we don't prosecute them maybe someone else will.

[Xipe Totec]

3. Mr Cheney chose poorly...

http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/IndianaJonesHOlyGrail.jpg

[FailureToCommunicate]

7. Excellent reference! 'That's not the cup of a carpenter...'

[InfiniteThoughts]

51. and not for the first time ...

:evilfrown:

[GardeningGal]

4. You know, we wouldn't even have to put Cheney in jail if we would

just drop him from his health insurance. Sure, he can afford to pay out of pocket with all his money made from his Halliburton stock but since he obviously values money so much it would probably kill him to have to pay for his own health care.

[Downwinder]

29. The medical profession does excellent wallet biopsies.

[beac]

30. Yes, yes! Excellent idea. The 'death of a thousand cuts'... to his benefits. n/t

[Aslanspal]

5. Wait! wait! wait! I thought Cheney was sure that this would vindicate him

Or are we going to get a big cherry picking campaign by the right wing media to propagandize this...we need to beat them too the punch...like this.

[Salviati]

31. Yeah, here's the redacted version that cheney wanted released:

“There exists no conclusive proof that the evidence obtained by enhanced interrogation techniques was reliable, or that it prevented any terror plots. Furthermore, it is clear that these techniques undermined popular sentiment towards Americans, and provided powerful recruitment propaganda for terrorist organizations.”

[emulatorloo]

37. Cheney lying again. Hoping it wouldn't be declassified so we would have to take his word for it

EOM

[Stuckinthebush]

6. I have a feeling that Obama is playing this like a pro

Let the info leak out little by little until the public outcry is enough to risk the political implications of indictment.

[AlbertCat]

14. leak out little by little

MWAHAHAHA!

And make sure Dick gets on the Sunday Talk Show circuit for weeks! Speak Dick! Speak!

[Baby Snooks]

17. You may be right...

And you may be wrong and what's wrong with being wrong in this case is the message being conveyed which is that while this administration condemns the criminal acts of the previous administration, the previous administration is above the law and the reason why is because this administration wishes to be above the law as well.

[SemperEadem]

24. that's my view, also

he is building what is known as "critical mass". It's brilliant.

[louis-t]

8. I love the visual of "howls of protests from Conservatives"

Ooooooowwwwwwrrr!!!!!1!111!11!!

[NewJeffCT]

40. It will be more like this

[louis-t]

43. Haaaaaa!!!!!!

[cindyfaulkner]

9. Maybe ( I could be wrong and probably am)

as often as Mr. Dick will keep running his mouth, my President will keep pushing back with the truth until Mr. Dick shuts his mouth.

[kpete]

13. i like that thought

i hope you are right, peace, kp

[jody]

10. "no proof that torture foiled any terror plots" but it COULD have and that possible end justifies

all types of torture. :sarcasm:

[cliffordu]

11. Note to freepers throughout the world....

CHESS, MOTHERFUCKERS. THE PRESIDENT IS PLAYING CHESS.

Now get your asses back under the bridge and fucking stay there.

[Happyhippychick]

12. Anything that triggers "howls of protest" from repubes and could cause problems for Cheney

makes my day happy and special.

[denem]

15. Q: Why are you releasing this report? A: Because VP Cheney asked us to

set the record straight. :evilgrin:

[SemperEadem]

25. that's former vp

IMO, he's getting way too much deference considering the situation.

[Wetzelbill]

16. I wonder what Cheney is thinking

Does he believe there are documents that justify what he says? He seems so certain, but he's been certain on other issues that he's been famously wrong on.

He either honestly believes that vindication exists in some documents somewhere, or he believes Obama wouldn't have the guts to release anything, so he can just keep saying it. It's also possible that no matter what Obama releases he thinks he can always get away with saying "Well release the ones that prove torture works." He could say that all day long even if they don't exist and you know at least the far right, including Fox and the other RW defenders like the WSJ editorial board, will just fall in line.

[AlbertCat]

19. He could say that all day long

True.

But for the 23% die hards, it all gets so tedious that it doesn't work eventually.

It's too hollow. Like the "Pelosi is culpable!" campaign. Many on here even fall for it! But I have to say every liberal I know to an individual has said, "If so...she should go to jail too!". Repugs just don't get it. They just don't understand how a liberal thinks and acts (Look at Coulter's books! Yikes!) They assume we will act like them. They have human nature down pat. Besides, whatever Pelosi is responsible for, she was not in charge and she didn't order any of it so it's another fake equivalency argument.

Sing along:
"One of these things is not like the other..."

So what if torture worked...it's still illegal. If I murder a man who said he was gonna kill my family later that day, did I not commit a crime? I may have saved my family and deserve leniency, but I still murdered someone who only threated someone else.

I think Cheney is delusional. Stress. All those medications....

[sabrina 1]

21. The problem for Cheney and the rest of the torture

crowd however, is that both International and Domestic laws make torture illegal. In order to win this debate, Cheney would have to be pointing to the LAW, not to someone's OPINION, to show where it says that torture is legal if it provides 'useful information'.

But he is NOT pointing to the law because he can't as the law doesn't support his claims. Instead he is doing what all criminals do, attempting to excuse his crimes by claiming that the crimes had some benefit to the country which is a very weak defense considering all the evidence to the contrary.

The bottom line is whether there is a document somewhere that supports his claims, it doesn't matter. Torture is illegal.

The interesting thing about Cheney's claims is that he is admitting they broke the law, so the more he talks the more he indicts himself.

No wonder he only appears on Faux and Rush as he knows they will not point out this very simple fact to him.

Keith or Rachel should challenge him to come on their shows and debate the law with people who are actually informed. Even if he refuses, that in itself would be a statement.

[Wetzelbill]

28. I don't think he cares about the law

It's not really part of the equation for him. He thinks that the president can basically do whatever he/she wants and that's good enough. It's above the law. Especially, as he has been asserting, that it was in the defense of the country. Which I don't agree with but that's what he's saying. Cheney isn't going to be taken to court over this. I'd be surprised and he's outright daring anybody to do it. So whether or not torture is illegal doesn't even factor into his defense. All that matters to him is that he did it in supposed defense of the country. He's not pointing to law because he's not arguing in a courtroom, he's arguing this to the press and to the country. Few people think Cheney is credible, but the media and the RW pretty much do. And if another attack of any magnitude happens, Cheney will be right there pointing fingers and trying to use it to vindicate himself and the media and the far right will jump right in as well.

[sabrina 1]

39. Yes, I understand all of that

The fact still remains, he is arguing for lawlessness. He is arguing that we as a country can .throw away the law in the event of a threat, and yes, there are those who agree with this kind of lawlessness. That is not how our laws are written. There is nothing that says that torture is legal in the event of a threat. War is justified, yes, if a country is faced with a threat, but not torture.

This 'debate' over the law, because it is about the law whether he avoids that fact or not, is putting this country to a huge test. How the country responds will determine once and for all whether we are what we say we are, or whether we are finally willing to admit that our claims of being a civilized, law-abiding country are merely words, like so many other rogue nations.

He may not be tried in this country, but as everyone knows, he can be held accountable elsewhere.

The Spanish court has said it will wait to see what the US does about Bybee et al before proceeding with their own charges. And as I read recently, this complicates matters for the DOJ in terms of letting them off easily.

As Sen. Graham Lindsey said after viewing the videos not available to the public from Abu Ghraib, and I believe his remarks at the time were directed to Cheney who was attempting to shut down the torture hearings, something to the effect of (paraphrasing from memory) 'Mr. Cheney, let us do our job because'....:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842

"'The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,' Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. 'We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges.'

We still haven't seen those videos nor addressed the charges made made by Symore Hersch, apparently verified in the videos.

IF there should be another attack on this country, it will be the fault of Cheney/Bush et al. It will be in revenge for their war crimes against the citizens of other nations. Why anyone lets him get away with this 'threat', that if we don't torture we'll be attacked again, is simply incredible. But Dems are not very good at arguing with Cheney and his gang of thugs.

'These are the times that try men's souls' .... this country has faced far more serious threats than Cheney's lies who does not have the law on his side. The soul of this country is being tried once again and it will take courage to do what is right, or history will not be very kind to us.

[bobthedrummer]

18. K&R+ "CIA Headquarters Micromanaged Torture" by Jason Leopold (5-11-09 Truthout)

http://www.truthout.org/051109J

[Iggo]

20. Cheney's lucky he's not breaking rocks.

He should keep his trap shut.

[kirby]

22. We are the VPs who say Wahhhh! n/t

[beac]

33. I'm thrilled Obama is releasing IT! IT will be great to watch Cheney try and spin IT.

His days of demanding shrubbery and getting away with IT are over!

[Hekate]

23. Is that a smoking gun I smell in your pocket, Big Boy ...

... or the mother lode of all fear reactions?

:evilgrin:

Hekate

[sellitman]

41. Off topic but...

I take it you are safe from those horrible fires nearby?

I hope so.

[Hekate]

47. Thank you! We are doing much, much better. We'll know more later in the week as the weather turns...

Yesterday, last night, and today we have had lovely coastal fog and cooler weather helping the firefighters; the fire is 77% contained and seems to be burning more into the back country instead of the city. The weather forecast for the rest of the week, sadly, is for a return to hot weather and sundowner winds, so we'll just have to cross our fingers that the expected containment date of 5/13 can be met.

Hekate

[Hulk]

26. "Somebody, get me a rope!!"

Bring it out. Bring it ALL out. If Pelosi can clear her name, fine. If she was complicit, then she needs to swing as well.

But "the Butcher from the Cellar" needs to start doing his neck exercises...because if it comes out like I think it will.....he can swing from a rope along with his good buddy Saddam. I have NO pity on this sick, evil son-of-a-bitch.

I think a good tar and feathering for the others would certainly be in order as well. I'd like to include "the evil dick" in that function too, before he swings.

[SemperEadem]

27. I can't recommend Jane Meyer's book "The Dark Side" enough

I'm serious... the indictment she lays out in her book against cheney is breathtaking.

[pjt7]

32. Bring the old man down

& bring America back up.

[florida08]

34. checkmate

Cheney..game over

[roberto]

36. Cheney, Bush : should torture themselves, they were THE world terrorists

[Vehl]

38. Great news!

this would hopefully prove the claims by Cheney to be the lies that they are

[pam4water]

42. Anticipatory salvation. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

44. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.:thumbsup:

[katty]

45. just do it, release them: YES WE CAN and WE WILL

[tanyev]

46. Is this what they were howling about on FOX News this morning?

I took my husband's car in for state inspection and that's the channel they had playing. It wasn't on very loud, so I could tune a lot of it out, but when they got to arguing about Miss California I went outside. Unfortunately it started raining too hard to stay out there. :grr: (Hubby owes me one.)

[truthisfreedom]

48. It is clear that torture has endangered our troops/agents in the field and energized ALL terrorists.

It has completely backfired on us, and it's all the bush administration's fault.

[Wednesdays]

49. K&R

:kick:

[WestSeattle2]

50. Cheney has done so much to damage to

our country while enriching himself, and his cronies. His chronic deceptions, "erroneous recollections", and intentional deceit go beyond the pale. The man is deeply disturbed, as the country, and world, are finding out every time he opens his mouth.

[SpartanDem]

52. Cheney's fat mouth

is going to be his undoing

[bobthedrummer]

53. k

[bobthedrummer]

54. .

[fascisthunter]

55. Cheney was the Type of Child That Did Cruel Shit to Small Animals

to make himself feel good when he was a kid, guaranteed.