Climate change: World's destiny at stake

[Old Coot]

Source: AFP

PARIS (AFP) – Ministers from economies accounting for 80 percent of the globe's greenhouse gases met Monday to warnings that "the world's destiny" may lie in the outcome of a mooted pact on climate change.

The so-called Major Economies Forum (MEF) met in Paris ahead of a new round of UN talks aimed at culminating in a sweeping global treaty in Copenhagen in December.

"The world's destiny will probably be at stake in Copenhagen," French Ecology Minister Jean-Louis Borloo said as he opened the two-day meeting in Paris.

He spoke out against skeptics who predict the accord will cripple the world's economy.

<snip>

By comparison, US President Barack Obama has proposed reducing America's greenhouse gas emissions by 14 percent by 2020 compared to their 2005 level. Analysts say this roughly translates to a three percent cut from 1990 levels.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090525/ts_afp/climatewarmingtalksmef_20090525183953

[villager]

1. And yet, it's not politically expedient for the U.S. to push for "too much"

at Copenhagen, or anywhere else.

U.S. message to world: Fuck off! We have political careers at stake!

[pscot]

5. Well, there's money too

Our politicians really are a lower life form.

[niceypoo]

13. But the GOP suicide cult wouldn't approve...

...they would throw hissy fits and we cant have that.

[denem]

2. It's a farce. A do something, anything conference while the scientific evidence

mounts that it's already too late to keep global temperatures from rising by 4C. Even a 3% global CO2 cut, each year, every year to the end of the century can't head it off, as mega millions of tons of methane begin to bubble out of the arctic tundra.

"On current trajectories we'll be lucky to get away with 4C. Mitigation (limiting greenhouse gas pollution) has failed; now we must adapt to what nature sends our way. If we can."

"It's more or less what Bob Watson, the environment department's chief scientific adviser, has been telling the British government. It is the obvious if unspoken conclusion of scores of scientific papers."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/17/monbiot-copenhagen-emission-cuts

An agreed cut of 14% by 2020 would render this sham a pure farce.

[Turborama]

8. Warming hits 'tipping point' (Guardian 2005)

The tundra methane story has been reported for several years now, what will it take to wake the politicians up to the fact that money will be useless and there won't be such a thing as elections in a relatively short amount of time unless they get their shit together and take drastic actions NOW?!

Siberia feels the heat It's a frozen peat bog the size of France and Germany combined, contains billions of tonnes of greenhouse gas and, for the first time since the ice age, it is melting

Ian Sample, science correspondent
The Guardian, Thursday 11 August 2005 12.36 BST

A vast expanse of western Sibera is undergoing an unprecedented thaw that could dramatically increase the rate of global warming, climate scientists warn today.

Researchers who have recently returned from the region found that an area of permafrost spanning a million square kilometres - the size of France and Germany combined - has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age.

The area, which covers the entire sub-Arctic region of western Siberia, is the world's largest frozen peat bog and scientists fear that as it thaws, it will release billions of tonnes of methane, a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide, into the atmosphere.

It is a scenario climate scientists have feared since first identifying "tipping points" - delicate thresholds where a slight rise in the Earth's temperature can cause a dramatic change in the environment that itself triggers a far greater increase in global temperatures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005/aug/11/science.climatechange1">Full Article

-- --- --

Global Warming Heats Up

By JEFFREY KLUGER Sunday, Mar. 26, 2006

=snip=

FEEDBACK LOOPS

One of the reasons the loss of the planet's ice cover is accelerating is that as the poles' bright white surface shrinks, it changes the relationship of Earth and the sun. Polar ice is so reflective that 90% of the sunlight that strikes it simply bounces back into space, taking much of its energy with it. Ocean water does just the opposite, absorbing 90% of the energy it receives. The more energy it retains, the warmer it gets, with the result that each mile of ice that melts vanishes faster than the mile that preceded it.

That is what scientists call a feedback loop, and it's a nasty one, since once you uncap the Arctic Ocean, you unleash another beast: the comparatively warm layer of water about 600 ft. deep that circulates in and out of the Atlantic. "Remove the ice," says Woods Hole's Curry, "and the water starts talking to the atmosphere, releasing its heat. This is not a good thing."

A similar feedback loop is melting permafrost, usually defined as land that has been continuously frozen for two years or more. There's a lot of earthly real estate that qualifies, and much of it has been frozen much longer than two years--since the end of the last ice age, or at least 8,000 years ago. Sealed inside that cryonic time capsule are layers of partially decayed organic matter, rich in carbon. In high-altitude regions of Alaska, Canada and Siberia, the soil is warming and decomposing, releasing gases that will turn into methane and CO2. That, in turn, could lead to more warming and permafrost thaw, says research scientist David Lawrence of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) in Boulder, Colo. And how much carbon is socked away in Arctic soils? Lawrence puts the figure at 200 gigatons to 800 gigatons. The total human carbon output is only 7 gigatons a year.

One result of all that is warmer oceans, and a result of warmer oceans can be, paradoxically, colder continents within a hotter globe. Ocean currents running between warm and cold regions serve as natural thermoregulators, distributing heat from the equator toward the poles. The Gulf Stream, carrying warmth up from the tropics, is what keeps Europe's climate relatively mild. Whenever Europe is cut off from the Gulf Stream, temperatures plummet. At the end of the last ice age, the warm current was temporarily blocked, and temperatures in Europe fell as much as 10°F, locking the continent in glaciers.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1176980,00.html">Full Article

The photograph taken in 1928, above, shows how the Upsala Glacier,
part of the South American Andes in Argentina, used to look.
The ice on the Upsala Glacier today, shown in 2004 below, is
retreating at least 180 ft. per year

[quidam56]

3. See for yourself what is called "clean coal"

It's a sin ! http://www.wisecountyissues.com?/p=138 Hannity's America sure isn't My America.

[Lorien]

4. 14%. Just pitiful.

And here they say that they are concerned about the economy. What rubbish. They're concerned about keeping the balance of power intact; where those that control the world's energy control the world. They know that clean, green renewable energy would create thousands of new jobs, but like JP Morgan they don't want anything that comes "without a meter on it". They don't care about the loss of life; they only care about the loss of fossil fuel profits. :grr:

[defendandprotect]

16. Patriarchy = "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" . . .

holding onto that patriarchal concept of control and exploitation is

suicidal -- always has been!

If you look at how the new owners have destroyed this continent in only 500 years

we can get an idea of how quickly they can destroy an entire planet!!!

[defendandprotect]

6. We need to get all the gas-guzzlers off the roads immediately . . .

electric cars, trolleys, golf carts -- bicycles --

We have plenty of bike riders in our town, with few accommodations made for them!

We don't even have an Environment Panel to keep an eye on what's happening in town --

Town Council decisions, etal.

[Gregorian]

7. If it weren't for cars, I'd ride my bike to the store.

I bought my property because it is adjacent to bike trails. I ride about 20 miles a day. But now that I don't live in the city, riding on the road is impossible. So when I go to get groceries, I drive a truck. And not just any truck. I have a truck that pulls a backhoe. 9000 pounds of monster four wheel drive diesel. Granted I fill the tank once every six months. But if there weren't cars, or if there were a separate place to ride where the jerks didn't have the opportunity to mow me down, I'd have a little trailer behind my bike. It's slow. But I commuted 11 miles each way for nearly ten years on a bike. It was great. Except for the cars.

But take a look at the bike forum on DU. The first page consists of posts from two years ago. It's that slow. We want immediate gratification. But people don't have the slightest clue how great a bike is. You can feel the air, the sounds, smells, and friendship. It's far more like being part of a community than the stampeding of a car. But just look at how many people aren't driving. No one. It's a disease. I can count the number of times a neighbor comes and goes per day. Work, school, kids, lunch, travel... A never ending stream. We need to consolidate, do more with less. And be more patient. And work a little harder. Pushing a pedal may seem harder than pushing a gas pedal, but it's highly rewarding, and it doesn't kill.

[bertman]

10. I'd love to ride my bike to work except my old ankle won't take the torque. I'm sure

the carpenters who work on our jobsites would love to ride their bikes 30 miles to work and then back home after a day of framing or tearing apart houses. Not to mention lugging all of their tools with them, rain or shine.

The reality is that there are many reasons people drive their vehicles and not all of them are frivolous. Of course we could do more carpooling and be much better organized with our automotive travel, but it's ridiculous to say that we can make the change overnight.

Mass transit, electric vehicles, carpooling, higher CAFE standards, are all part of the solution, but it's first gonna take the American people demanding the change. Given the response our elected representatives made to our demands that they NOT bail out the Wall Street thieves I seriously doubt they'll listen to anyone other than the lobbyists who pay their campaign bills.

Meanwhile, the wife and I are trying to restrict our driving to as few trips as we can get away with. And that's still too many for my taste.

[Gregorian]

14. This is one of the reasons I'm so worried.

But first, what I see where I live is absolutely a majority of goofballs just flitting around. It's a tourist/retirement kind of community.

But yes, there is a large segment of society that absolutely relies upon the bigger vehicles for their work. And these vehicles will never be efficient. That's why I keep saying that even if we had renewable energy powering electric cars, it would only solve a fraction of our problem. People act as though they've found the solution.

Ha, I used to commute to my roofing job by bike, work like a maniac, commute home, and then go on a bike ride for fun. But I was immortal back then. :)

It makes me happy to think that people like you are thinking. I see so many who aren't even conscious about this.

And off I go to flit around getting a hydraulic hose fixed! ARGH!

[defendandprotect]

15. I used to see people riding even three wheelers . . . we need to make room for all bikes--!!!

I didn't say NO CARS . . .

I said, get rid of the "gas guzzlers" . . . AND . . .

We're permitted mass transportation to be destroyed --

And still in the suburbs there are few ways to get around without a car.

Our railroad parking lots are full of cars -- and have been for decades -- cars just
sitting there all day!

I also live in the suburbs so I fully understand the need for a car -- especially now
as even large stores are closing and being replaced by more distant even larger stores!!




I'd love to ride my bike to work except my old ankle won't take the torque. I'm sure
Posted by bertman
the carpenters who work on our jobsites would love to ride their bikes 30 miles to work and then back home after a day of framing or tearing apart houses. Not to mention lugging all of their tools with them, rain or shine.

[KillCapitalism]

17. Yeah, I'd like to ride my bike to work too.

Problem is that my commute would take about as long as the entire Tour De France...j/k, but really a 90 mile round trip commute on a bike through steep country would kill me.

[bertman]

19. Tour De France!!

:rofl:

[AlphaCentauri]

11. I'm trying to use my car only to go to work

I ride my ebike most of the time

[The Doctor.]

9. Most people do not understand the 'population control' philosophy of the elite.

The few thousand folks who now control most of the world's media and corporations have some pretty regressive ideas about how the future should play out.

If that seems preposterous, then the very definition is captured.

[XemaSab]

12. At the end of the day

we're not going to do shit.

It's going to be a wild ride.

[dysfunctional press]

20. yep.

people won't start paying attention until the greenland ice sheet slides into the sea.

it's going to make for some great tv in the coming years...:popcorn:

[The2ndWheel]

18. It's not the resource, it's the activity that the resource allows

If people think our environmental impact is large with oil, just wait until everyone has access to unlimited amounts of renewable sources of energy.

[OneBlueSky]

21. "Obama has proposed reducing America's greenhouse gas emissions by 14 percent by 2020 . . .

compared to their 2005 level" . . .

pretty fucking meaningless at this stage in the game . . . pitiful . . .