'Power' move by male students ruffles U. of C.

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Chicago Tribune

A group of University of Chicago students think it's time the campus focused more on its men.

A third-year student from Lake Bluff has formed Men in Power, a student organization that promises to help men get ahead professionally. But the group's emergence has been controversial, with some critics charging that its premise is misogynistic.

Others say it's about time men are championed, noting that recent job losses hit men harder and that women earn far more bachelor's and master's degrees than do men.

"It's an enormous disparity now," said Warren Farrell, author of "The Myth of Male Power" and former board member of the New York chapter of the National Organization for Women. He noted, among other things, an imbalance in government and private initiatives that advance the interests of women and girls.

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-u-of-c-mens-groupmay19,0,4707353.story

---

Sorry guys but as a female who had to battle for my equality in the workplace and even in hobbies for the past 40+ years and who had paths shutoff at times, I'm not that sympathetic. Welcome to my world! :nopity:

[DURHAM D]

1. Poor widdle babbies. n/t

[Solomon]

41. It's the He-Man Women Haters Club

LOL

I wonder if they talk in rhymes like the Three Stooges did.

[jkappy]

57. kinda like the millionaires liberation front n/t

[smirkymonkey]

90. Or "White Power to the People!"

:sarcasm:

[Scairp]

59. Gimme a break also

The day that the Yankees sign a female starting pitcher, I'll buy all of these guys a beer for every Sox or Cubs game for life. I have a feeling I won't be out a dime on that wager, ever.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Univ. of Chi has given the world a great many right wing cranks. nt

[pocoloco]

25. Where Strauss taught the first of our neocons.

They have since spread far and wide.

[Captain Hilts]

31. Friedrich Hayek who created the How-to-Hate-Govt.B school and the law school that

gave the world the guys that worked for Kenneth Starr that went after Clinton.

[bluestateguy]

3. The organization has the right to exist

If it was an outrage that Liberty University banned the College Democrats, then we must be consistent and also accept the right of this organization to exist.

[ejpoeta]

6. they have a right to exist.... i just find it funny what their purpose is....

because they've got it so rough.

[Buzz Clik]

7. Absolutely. College political cartoonists need more muses.

[RamboLiberal]

10. Oh they have a right to exist - just don't get my sympathy

Wonder how many are also Young Republicans?

[sakabatou]

36. True, even though it's chauvinist.

[Rage for Order]

103. If this is chauvanist...

What would you call this:

"Sharlene Holly, associate dean of students and the director of student activities, said the University of Chicago has approximately nine women's advocacy groups on campus; this group would be the first male advocacy group."

Damn those women are sexist!

[No Elephants]

45. Who is taking it out of existence and what does banning a political party

from a campus have to do with men whining about favoritism to women for too ...hahhahaha...long?

[ejpoeta]

4. men have it SOO hard, don't they!! they get paid more than women,

they don't get pushed to the side because of the 'mommy track' stuff. you know, i like watching baby boom because it's probably like what women have gone through and still go through today in the business world... this woman ends up with a relatives baby. she ends up wanting to keep the kid, so the big account that she was heading gets given to an inexperienced man while she gets a smaller inconsequential account.... because she is now on the mommy track. but by all means, yes the men have it SOOO tough!

[Captain Hilts]

32. Three dark suits will get them through an entire career. nt

[No Elephants]

46. Yes, but then she starts her own baby food company and the inexperienced man has to kowtow.....oh

wait, that was a movie.


nevermind.

[paulsby]

74. we can play with stats all you want

men

1) live shorter lives than women
2) more likely (by a large margin) to commit suicide
3) more likely to be institutionalized in a mental institution
4) more likely to be injured or killed in the workplace
5) more likely to be a victim of violent crime
6) more likely to be imprisoned

etc.

not saying that men have it worse than women. i am saying it's perfectly ok for a group to champion mens' causes, just as the cause to promote women is valid too.

[mopinko]

78. you mean

1) more likely to eat foods they know will lead them to an early grave
2) ok, i give you this one because i don't make suicide jokes
3) not sure where this stat comes from, because i think it used to be the other way around. i suppose it is the side effect of failures of #2. but i bet that women are more likely to be committed against their will.
4) more likely to get and keep the kind of physical jobs that pay well.
5) more likely to be listed as the victim of a robbery because they are the ones who "own" all the property.
6) more likely to commit a felony

etc.

but hell, everybody likes a good pity party.

[paulsby]

91. for both genders

behaviors are to some extent, related to results

duh.

men are , on average , (and there is a genetic basis to this, as well as environment) less risk averse (and they assess risk differently).

this has positive and negative benefits, for instance.

men also value and weight things differently (on average) which leads to different career choices, etc.

not all the differences in outcomes for men OR women are attributable to external factors.

for example, look at income differentials. or the type of jobs women (on average) choose vs. men choose.

the point is that i see nothing wrong with men advocating for causes that benefit them, any more than women.

but of course i believe in equality. maybe you don't.

[Buzz Clik]

5. Ah. Ain't it the pits?

There's a host of reasons why women in some fields are getting more degrees than men, but one of the reasons is NOT that men can't catch a break.

Please, Jeebus -- let one of these whiny bastards sit in my office and repeat that. Pretty please?

[KansDem]

99. You have an office?

Congratulations! :thumbsup:

[Lorien]

8. Agreed RamboLiberal. I once worked for a corporation that paid women

$25 an hour and men $45 an hour for the EXACT same position, and it wasn't that long ago. The guys who were my trainees were making more than I was after a week on the job vs. my ten years-and I always had to correct their work, which was turned in late. I was told by management that men "just need more stuff" and that women "don't need an income because they can just get married". When I asked them to explain why my single father who had no dependents needed more money than my single mother who had two children they just replied "well, your mom could have just gotten remarried". :eyes:

[RamboLiberal]

12. Here was some of my frustrations

As a kid I loved baseball, was actually pretty decent in the street games with the boys, but was I allowed in Little League - NO. And there wasn't even baseball or softball for girls in my town at the time.

I went to a Catholic all girls high school. The boys had a brand new building with gym and all the amenities. The girls got stuck sharing a school with an elementary school and a 2nd building probably 80+ years old at the time where the 3rd floor was shutdown for safety reasons.

I might have pursued a career in the military or law enforcement, but both of those avenues the jobs in the military at the time wouldn't have interested me and in law enforcement women were still wearing skirts and probably carrying their gun in their handbag.

I got training as a computer programmmer (still in IT). First all the jobs in my field at the time(1971) were listed in the newspaper under Male Help wanted. Like only men could understand and program those big hunks of iron(sadly women still are behind in this field though I feel it is changing). BTW, I was 2nd in my class. I know I was paid less than men though I did do ok.

Martial arts after I got a black belt doing the same as the men and fighting men I still had to have a huge verbal argument with my instructor for the right to teach martial arts classes. I hung long enough to become the first female master rank in his school.

So like I said - welcome to my world guys even though you guys are not the generation(s) to blame.

[catrose]

21. GAG

sympathies to your mother--and her children

[dana_b]

22. holy s***

to come right out and say that is incredible! they're lucky you didn't sure the pants off of them.

[No Elephants]

47. Before the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it was not illegal to discriminate against women. And not

many employers focused on the part of that Act that pertained to gender for quite some time.

In about 1965, I taught (public school) with a woman who was supporting her widowed, orphaned sister and the sister's baby. When she complained about unequal pay, she was told that men needed more money because they had families to support--and then the disparity was much greater than it is now. At that time, neither she nor I would have thought of a lawsuit.

[superconnected]

96. And to believe it is even more incredibl(y) stupid.

[RamboLiberal]

28. Amazing how they could get away with this crap

I never had anything like that said to my face at work. In martial arts I was told that men wouldn't take lessons from a female. I had a lot of guys come up to me when I taught to complement my classes and how difficult they were and what a good workout. Didn't hurt that I'd often intentionally pick a big guy to show the pressure point techniques on.

[superconnected]

95. I'm in the computer industry and we are hard hit by lay offs.

The men got laid of way more than the women because there were 10 guys for every woman working here. The few women we had got laid off as well as the men in the lay offs. We went from 85 down to 16. I'm the only woman in the office now.

All of the jobs I've had in the computer industry have been this way - way more men working there than women. Usually the women are secretaries. I'm strange because I'm a systems engineer - the only female one I've ever met and I came to my position from Microsoft which hires the most women of any company I've worked at. They still have more than 5:1 males though.

[Lorien]

9. And maybe they should narrow it down even more; straight white Protestant

males from wealthy families. Now there's an underprivileged and under represented group! :sarcasm:

[Triana]

11. When they start getting paid 74 cents to every dollar an equally qualified woman makes for the same

job - then they'll have something to worry about.

Then there are such things as this:

"The Male Programmer Privilege Checklist" (note the last item listed, in particular)
http://lafalafu.com/krc/privilege.html


And just a heads-up for when some guy wants to argue that all this discrimination against women really doesn't exist - here's their operations manual:

Derailing for Dummies Checklist:
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

[RamboLiberal]

14. Having started as a female Computer Programmer

back in the day when I had to search for jobs under Male Help Wanted - that one is a keeper. Saved it.

Going to save the 2nd one as well. Thanks.

[Triana]

35. Welcome Syster....

...us geekgrrls gotta stick together.

[SWr]

60. here's something interesting

its from http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary/2007/04/men_vs_women_sa.html

Do women earn less than men on the pay equity table? According to money.cnn.com, the oft-quoted "77 cents" sounds like women are earning less than men are to do exactly the same job. This gender gap in wage earning stat is from a 2004 study by the Census Bureau, which was actually a comparison of median earnings of working men and women who clocked in at least 35 hours per week. It didn’t compare men and women working the same job, as rhetoric often suggests, but rather, median income from any job.

According to Heidi Hartmann, president of the Institute for Women's Policy Research, the wage gap "is a good measure of inequality, not necessarily a measure of discrimination…parsing out is difficult to do."

Being paid unequal wages for different jobs is the American way. The socialists among us may not like it, but professional football players make more than surgeons, surgeons make more than nurses, and nurses make more than nursing assistants.

Gender discrimination may be a factor in why the jobs that pay better have a higher fraction of men, and the jobs that pay lower wages have more women. However, there are many reasons besides gender discrimination why women may choose, rather than be forced into, the lower median salary jobs. These reasons are often not only legitimate, but can be wise.

[mainer]

13. Men complain that women now have more secure jobs?

Then why don't they do what they've been telling women to do for decades? Compete for those jobs! For too many years, the pat explanation for why men out-earn women is that women just aren't attracted to high-paying professions. It's always been the women's fault! Women should do what it takes to get those great jobs!

Now the shoe's on the other foot, but I don't see a sweeping movement of men going into nursing. They've sneered that women are at fault for poor career choices, but somehow it doesn't apply to men.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. When men no longer make 28% more for doing the same work as

women, he MIGHT have something to complain about. After all, nobody likes an even playing field.

[Dogtown]

16. Black-balled by Skull & Bones, no doubt.

:eyes:

[stanwyck]

17. I thought they already had their club, the GOP

which helps those unable to make up for their disparity in discipline or intelligence. I offer you GWB as proof. There are countless others. And, yes, they did give us Sarah Palin, their pinup girl. Again, she "failed up". One of the main attributes of this mindset.

[MellowDem]

18. Who cares?

Why would this ruffle feathers? If there is no need for men to have helpful organizations out there, then this one won't do much will it? I don't get all the outrage and "welcome to my world" attitude.

How is its premise misogynistic? You might think it is wrong that men are in much need of a student organization, but wtf makes it anti-woman?

[No Elephants]

48. If you have to ask, explaining probably would not

help anyway. Just take it as a given.


Pleasant surprise to see that you favor affirmative action, though. It's totally baseless when members of the historical power structure demand it, of course, but I am surprised to see you support the principle.

[MellowDem]

65. Affirmative Action?

This is a student organization from what I read. What does it have to do with affirmative action?

[JonQ]

108. When I hear about such and such empowerment groups

women, blacks, homosexuals, etc I don't immediately assume that means they are anti-male, or anti-white, or anti-heterosexual, etc. So it seems unfair to immediately assume these guys are anti-female.

So far it seems harmless and I doubt it will last long.

Big deal.

[get the red out]

19. Women earn more degrees than men

Well high school guys, wake up! Throwing the football down the field, seeing how many girls you can screw, and thinking academics are for wimps is the culture of defeat.

Steroid stupid is no way to go through life.

[amandabeech]

29. "Steroid stupid." LOL!!!!! n/t

[JohnnyCougar]

67. That's kind of a broad and crass generalization.

This whole thread is pretty ridiculous, actually.

[get the red out]

81. Have some fun!!!!

It may be "broad" but I knew enough sports guys in high school to know that the sun rose and set with them and they didn't need academics at all; until it was too late. Adults really harm young guys when they try to live through their prowess, and that happens a lot.

Other than that, taking a joke makes life a little more fun.

[JonQ]

109. When women earned fewer degrees

was it because they were too busy dressing up pretty, thinking about boys and worrying that books weren't ladylike?

Feel free to insert whatever broad-brush stereotype you like to explain why they failed until now.

[Tempest]

20. They're playing fast and loose with the facts

noting that recent job losses hit men harder

True only because construction and transportation are male dominated and they are the hardest hit industries.

In the financial industry, women account for 90% of the layoffs when they are only 59% of the workers.


women earn far more bachelor's and master's degrees than do men

And are paid far less.

[hedgehog]

23. This is wonderful! Now no woman at the University of Chicago

will have any difficulty separating the good guys from the bad! All the worst (insert your favorite pejorative here)will self-identify themselves by joining this group!


Darwin in action? I'd like to see these guys try to reproduce!

[buckrogers1965]

24. What exactly do they want?

Do they want the percentage of male CEO's to go from 97% to 98%?

I don't see what it is that this organization is attempting to accomplish.

[David__77]

26. There are many factors. The gap has narrowed considerably though.

Women are still disadvantaged. Even if women earned the same as men for comparable work with comparable experience and education, there is also the fact that some fields are still male-dominated. Engineering, for instance. It's not enough to just run a simple regression analysis. Trends are positive though.

[EC]

27. Well, like many of us women have been told

if the women are more secure in their jobs, the men should just marry them. Wasn't that why women are paid less and given the brush-off? I've heard it in arguments about equality...if the women want this or that, blah, blah, blah, she can just get married.



So why don't they just get married?:sarcasm:

[AngryAmish]

30. If you don't think young men have problems, then you are not looking very hard

Young men have worse educational attainment, much more likely to be victims of crimes, way more likely to be perpetrators of crime, commit suicide, abuse drugs and alcohol and the like.

And I love to hear the supposedly liberal members of this board dismiss worries about young men because they are men ..."poor widdle" and "steroid stupid" and the ilk. I guess some people, even self identified liberals lack empathy and compassion.

Many years ago the actual disparate outcomes proved as a prima facia violation of Title IX. Now some people say it just proves men are dumb.

Can we finally dump this "girls rule, boys drool" attitude that is so prevalent around here?

[DavidDvorkin]

33. You'll either be ignored or attacked

DU is biased and regressive where the plight of men is concerned.

[No Elephants]

56. Yes, expecting a level playing field is totally unreasonable. I hope you can forgive us.

[DavidDvorkin]

61. Q.E.D.

[Yupster]

75. It is DU at its worst

when the anti-male screeds come out to play.

I'd like to think it's a minority opinion, but I really don't. If it was, the sexist comments would be hooted down. Instead, the ones pointing them out are usually hooted down.

There's hardly a night goes by without some sexist comment like "If men could have babies, abortion would be (fill in the blank.)

[The2ndWheel]

38. In a mass produced world, one size must fit all

That goes for both boys and girls.

[malakai2]

39. Thanks

The more I see this shit on here, the more I think 1) I understand why the party has issues with men in general and white men in particular, and 2) it's a waste of my time to offer support to people who would miscast me as a good-for-nothing meathead that got ahead in life as a steroid-pumped athlete and now rakes in vast sums more than equally talented women.

Reality check for those upthread, there are lower and middle class (whatever the hell that means anymore) men out there who are nothing like you are supposing. They're unemployed, underemployed, unemployable because they are overeducated. They are struggling with student loan debt, rent payments, car costs, and have no health insurance. They'd like to go back to school for training in a new job field, but can never seem to take on the additional expense to make it happen, or if they do, then that field becomes saturated and now they are even further underwater. They didn't make your life difficult because you were born with a vagina. Matter of fact, most of them have supported and continue to support the quest for equal rights, and quite many of THOSE men are in the same damn boat as you, regardless of what's between your legs.

But please, do continue your little two minutes' hate. It's mildly entertaining, for several reasons you probably don't intend.

[kaylynwright]

44. A book you might enjoy.

malakai2,

I read your comment, and I do agree that it's unfair for people to ignore that young men are facing many of the same problems as young women.

I posted further down about how I thought the Men in Power group should look at the reasons for the disproportion in college-bound males and females, mainly what is causing boys in middle and high school to choose to not pursue college. It seems very plausible that some major reasons for this include the increased amount of time spent in front of the TV, playing video games, and computer games, as well as the amount of over-medication in this age group.

Boy's Adrift is an excellent book that discusses many of these issues. I thought you might find this interesting. Here is a link to it:
http://www.boysadrift.com/

I hope you choose to read this. You can probably find it at your library now since it has been out for a while.

Have a nice day!

[No Elephants]

55. Except that these young men claim to be facing greater problems than faced by their female counter-

parts.

[JonQ]

112. In some ways they are absolutely right

young men lead women in terms of suicide, drug abuse, accidental deaths, highschool dropouts, college dropouts, combat deaths, prison terms for comparable crimes, have always been behind in life expectancy, etc. And are well behind now in college admissions (this is a college group, so I imagine issues that affect college age men would be their main focus).

I'd say these are fair issues to be looked at. Or are we to wait until women have equaled or surpassed men in all "good" areas before we can look at any issue relating to men?

There is a nasty streak of anti-male ideology some people on here express without shame. Discrimination is wrong, no matter your personal grudge.

[No Elephants]

49. Lower and middle class men did not make things difficult for women? That

statement proves how very little you know about this subject.

[Romulox]

84. Rich women don't make things difficult for working men AND women today?

points like the one you make frequently cut as wide as they do deep! :hi:

[RamboLiberal]

52. You have a point but these guys are in a good college

Doors are wide open for them. They can compete equally with the women in that setting. They can compete equally for the jobs as well once they have that sheepskin. They can apply equally to graduate schools. Etc.

Only in the last 2 decades have women come even close to the opportunities and equality men have had all along.

I feel for both the male HS grad who can't or isn't college material or the dropout who one time had an opportunity in a blue collar wage to make a good living. BTW, even there women in similiar circumstances were for the most part locked out of those good-paying jobs except for the WWII years with the excuse the job was too tough or dirty for women or they should let the bread-winner(male) have those better paying jobs.

If there's one thing this country needs to get a handle on its preventing kids from dropping out and making sure everyone can get the education needed for a good paying job. Also to make all jobs pay a living wage.

[SWr]

58. yep

About the ONLY sane post Ive read in this thread.

Will it ever end ... most likely NEVER. Cause some people cant let gooooooooo they think everything is gender based.

But this thread should be good for some entertainment.

:popcorn:

[JohnnyCougar]

68. The intolerance on this bord is sometimes astonishing.

I think some people are confused as to what the word "liberal" means. Threads like this just reinforce stereotypes that liberals are hypocrites, and that they value the tolerance of certain groups over others. There was nothing that this men's group said or did that threatened to keep women -- or any other group -- down.

[chascarrillo]

71. Awww... you poor widdle boys have it sooo hard,,,

Christ on a fucking crutch. Get real.

[JohnnyCougar]

73. Sad...

[AngryAmish]

77. What is wrong with you?

Upthread there are many posters to correctly point out the unfairness that women makes 78 cents (or so) to the dollar that men make. What if I tried to infantilize them, call them poor widdle tings and the like? It would be considered hate speech.

I ask again, what is wrong with you? It is not a rhetorical question. Do you realize men are actual human beings with feelings? Look into your heart and decide that.

[laureloak]

97. Good post.

[Dutch]

105. Superbly good post. Stuff like this brings out the nasty worst in too many DUers.

[caseymoz]

110. I'm a guy, and I haven't seen any discrimination.

Let's see, worse educational attainment. That's just indicative of something. Discrimination in the classroom? It could be anything. Unless you connect to something else, as far as we know, men don't want to attain as much. (In my major, women definitely outnumbered men, but guess what? Men far outnumber women at the top of the profession. How does that happen.)

Commit suicide. Okay, again, what is this connected to? Men commit suicide far more than women do, by about three times as much, even in such bastions of women's liberation like Iran.

And men also commit more violent crimes, and die of them. That holds in every country, everywhere, every time.

They have also lead in alcohol and drug use, every country, everywhere, every time.

I'm not saying it's there fault, or their dumber, but I'm skeptical that these are a matter of males not having enough rights.

[musette_sf]

34. K&R

and some very (ahem) interesting comments. interesting what you learn about DUers.

[SemperEadem]

37. ah, the death throes of the mediocre angry white male...

the only thing that is holding them back is their own mediocrity. Everything else is a ruse to shift their responsibility onto everyone else.

[laureloak]

40. Way to go guys.

All doors should be open to women, but it's not right to close them for men.

[No Elephants]

50. And who closed doors on men?

[laureloak]

83. Ones who award based on gender rather than qualifications.

[proteus_lives]

42. Silly, given the reality of the world.

But if they aren't hurting anyone or advocating against women, it's their right have this organization.

[No Elephants]

51. Anyone stopping them?

[kaylynwright]

43. Boys Adrift

I don't think there is anything wrong with young men starting a school group focused around men's issues. However, I think that maybe the group should focus more on young men still in middle and high school. Men in college for both undergraduate and graduate degrees are not the cause of the disproportion in the male:female ratio. Rather, the men in the group should target the real problem that's plaguing the younger boys. As a recent high school graduate, I can say that I've encountered a higher number of unmotivated, lazy, video game addicted boys then girls. My older sister and I were both highly motivated and are doing very well in college. She will graduate very soon. Our younger brother has no motivation in school and has difficulty concentrating. I find it ironic that teenage boys like my brother can't pay attention to an hour long class yet can sit and stare at a computer screen for five hours straight everyday.

In addition to targeting high school-aged men, the group should consider focusing on men's health issues as well (like many women's groups do). I think part of the reason for the disproportion, in addition to the problem with high-school aged boys, is that young women have, over the past decades, gained access to birth control. Women now have control over when to start a family, and have as a result delayed the age they choose to marry and start families.

Anyway, I would like to add that I in no way am trying to categorize every young man into this category. I have met plenty of highly-motivated, talented young men as well as unmotivated, lazy young women.

A great book that focuses on the issues affecting young boys and teenage males: Boys Adrift, by Leonard Sax, http://www.boysadrift.com/
An excellent documentary to watch: The Pill, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/pill/


Thank you! If anyone wants to know, I am a 19 year old female.

[No Elephants]

53. Law schools originally kept out most or all women. Then, they had slowly

inreasing limits, while CLAIMING to be using affirmative action for women. When they removed all limits (as far as we know) and treated everyone equally, admissions of women surpassed admissions of men, strictly on merit. So now, men are dissatisfied? If you read between the lines--and not even very much, aren't they seeking an advantage for members of the power structure and a disadvantage for women--a group historically discriminated against? Affirmative action for those who have no basis to seek it?

The article says that the campus has around six gender neutral organizations to help students get ahead. That's not good enough--there has to be at least one devoted only to members of the historical power structure?



"Hayward, who is based in Sacramento, Calif., started his men's group in 1977. Then and now, he said, women have not paid enough attention to what it means to be a man in modern society."



Are you effin' kidding me? In 1977, women were too busy trying to get equal rights to pay attention to the unfair advantage men had.



"Hayward said one of the biggest myths borne of the women's movement was that men like to help each other out."


Right. There never was an old boys' network. Riiiiight.



"We are competing directly for access to women and jobs," he said."


Maybe now you finally are. And?


I think I've isolated Hayward's problem. That much of a break with reality is an indicium of schizophrenia.

[mix]

54. pathetic losers n/t

[LanternWaste]

62. Crazy, man. Just crazy...

And even now, there are white males on DU who are bemoaning the fact that, although males make more than females, and that whites make more than minorities, they are still, somehow, someway being discriminated against and held down/held back.

Crazy, man. Just crazy (with a side dish of absurdity, followed off by a dessert of self-pity...)

ed: sp

[Wednesdays]

63. K&R

:kick:

[KamaAina]

64. Men In Power: No Gurls Aloud

But seriesly, I can certainly empathize with the plight of these poor embattled males. Why, just the other day, the President -- a male, no less -- nominated a female to the Supreme Court! Do you realize that means there will now be two females against only seven of us?!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

edit: spelling

[ProgressIn2008]

66. So much misogyny, so little time. nt

[defendandprotect]

69. Males want affirmative-action . . .

:evilgrin:

They're certainly not looking for a meritocracy

1. an elite group of people whose progress is based on ability and talent rather than on class privilege or wealth.
2. a system in which such persons are rewarded and advanced: The dean believes the educational system should be a meritocracy.
3. leadership by able and talented persons.

[JohnnyCougar]

70. Most idiotic DU thread ever.

Men have issues of their own in this society. They're portrayed as simple-minded doofuses on TV (which really pisses me off), and for every 1 white male in the elitist power structure, there's 50 other men struggling hard to provide for a family and wondering when they might get laid off or when they will get a job in the first place.

It's a shame there aren't more leadership groups for men around. Men have the right to feel proud of who they are and form groups just like women -- especially when the group isn't about keeping the other side down, such as in the current example.

I'm not sure why people on this board feel it is acceptable to both completely misrepresent this group's intentions and openly reinforce negative stereotypes about men. It's a shame that so few posters hold men in high esteem. It's easy to find a few bad examples of men either acting like a lout, repressing women or acting like a misogynist, but to generalize that view upon all men is the act of a coward. It's the same as saying that all black people steal television sets because there was a news article in the paper saying that someone's TV set was stolen by a black person. You figure that kind of intolerance would be unacceptable on DU. Probably 99 out of 100 men I meet in this world are not guilty in any way of keeping women down or are not part of some sort of evil plot to rule this society. They want a job so they can provide for their family like anyone else.

[Alamuti Lotus]

72. The hypocritical man-hate on display may only help prove their point

[hayu_lol]

76. One thing we can probably all get together about...

is that if there are no causes to fight for, college students will create one.

[Odin2005]

79. This guy thinks these guys are a bunch of pathetic losers.

Men get less college degrees simply because education is less valued by men then it is by women, I've noticed that it is much more acceptable for women be be "nerdy" then guys.

[Rage for Order]

101. Your bigotry is simply astounding

Let's replace a couple of words in your statement, read it back, and see how it sounds:

"(Black people) get less college degrees simply because education is less valued by (black people) then it is by (white people), I've noticed that it is much more acceptable for (white people) be be "nerdy" then (black people)."

[No Elephants]

80. BTW, anyone know why the headline says this is a "power" move? When women

formed this kind of organization in the 0's and 80's, I don't recall anyone talking about the move being powerful. It was more like these powerless females had to band together because the powerful men shut them out, intentionally or not.

[LibertyLover]

82. As a female University of Chicago graduate

(AB, 1975, Ancient Near Eastern History and Culture), all I have to say to these guys is STFU. Oh and "go away".

[Lance_Boyle]

88. not much of a liberty lover then, are you?

Hypocritical jackass-ette.

[LanternWaste]

93. Telling someone to "go away" or to STFU denies them of what particular liberty?

Telling someone to "go away" or to STFU denies them which particular liberty...?

Or (and I find this more likely) you're merely confusing civility with liberty?

ed: sp

[Romulox]

85. I would never join such an org., but a lot of the comments on this thread are beyond the pale.

[CBR]

86. I do not really see a need for this type of organization but

I could care less if they form it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

87. Perhaps it is needed?

There is a possibility that in rightly focusing on all the various minorities that deserve help. That aid for some deserving individuals in the majority has been overlooked. Although we must note that no matter how noble this starts out it's only a metter of time before it's taken over by reactionaries.

[TheWraith]

89. Wait a minute--RamboLiberal is a woman?

Damn, the stuff I miss not clicking on people's profiles! :D

[Brooklyns_Finest]

92. Very sad thread

I would love to know the ages of the dismissive women who post on this thread. I am going to guess that most are older and not college aged. I am 31, but my circle of friends range from 24-33 years of age. Most of the females that I know are doing very well. Some of the men are doing extremely well and some are doing okay. I will tell you this, some of the people who are most concerned with lack of achievement in men are my female friends. I know so many lovely ladies who have great jobs, are in great shape and have decent personalities, yet they can't find a man because so many of their potential suitor don't cut the mustard. Then there are the single moms who receive little to no child supports from the children's father. Let's not even begin with the under-employed guys who live off of their women.

Most of my experiences comes from being a black male. In my community, black men have a long way to go in achieving as much as their sisters. People like Obama, Holder and Powell are the extreme exception and not the norm. However, you can find the likes of Condolesa Rice and Michele Obama throughout the corporate and government world. Shoot, I work for the federal government, and my component director is the most impressive person I have ever work for/with, and she is a black woman. Black women out number black men 3-1 in college and 7-1 in historically black colleges. This figure is not good for black men or black women.

I try my best to mentor young black males in the community. It is very tough. Due to family issues, poverty, crime, and hip hop culture, black males do not see college as a realistic step to self sufficiency. They all want to be musicians, athletes, or hustlers. It is so cliche, but it is so true. While not all black girls are doing great, their motivation, and success far out shine that of their male counterparts.

These things seem to be primarily a black problem now, but they are slowly creeping up in the White and Hispanic communities. While historic gender inequality is a bad thing, we should not dismiss legitimate issues that men face.

[kaylynwright]

104. great post

This is a really good post.

I agree that the problem is even creeping into all the communities. The issue I've noticed with young white men is that they are exposed to too much TV, video games and computers, as well as being over medicated with Ritalin, Concerta, etc. I recently graduated high school and I would definitely say that the young women in high school and in college are, on average, more focused and motivated than the men. And this goes for white, black and Hispanic women I've talked too. My brother is a 16 year old, and like many of the other males around his age, the focus is on living in a fake computer universe and finding every way possible to avoid homework and the real world, not that he's anywhere near the "real world" yet. He seems to think everything will just happen for him and that he will find a career as a video game programmer or as a tester. He doesn't seem to realize that his grades just don't cut it and that is is very unlikely for a company to hire him over someone with a shiny, new degree.

"I try my best to mentor young black males in the community."
I think you've hit the nail on the head here. This should be the goal. Young teenage men.


Thanks for the good post!

[Mad_Dem_X]

94. Awww...the poor white men...WAAAAAAAAAH!

:eyes:

[superconnected]

98. Yeah, I feel so bad for them. You'd almost think women were ahead of them from

this article. But then I work in one of those male dominated fields that has been hard hit by lay offs - the computer industry, and I know first hand that the men got laid off more than women because there were far more men than women holding those high paying jobs.

[Rage for Order]

102. I know what you mean

"You'd almost think women were ahead of them from this article."

From the article:

"Since 1981, women have collected 135 for every 100 bachelor's degrees awarded to men, according to Perry. The gap is even wider at the master's level, with women trumping men 150 to 100, he said."

I dare say that if these numbers were reversed and men were getting 35% - 50% more college degrees than women, the outcry from women's advocacy groups would be defeaning. It would be called an educational crisis and various types of outreach programs would be developed to increase the numbers of college degrees earned by women.

There's also this:

"In April, the national unemployment rate for men was 10 percent compared with 7.6 percent for women, said Mark Perry, an economist at the University of Michigan in Flint."

The unemployment rate for men is 33% higher than it is for women. Obviously men face problems that are unique to men, and if men want to establish groups to assist each other with those problems that's a good thing, imho.

[laureloak]

106. Must you make everything racial?

[ismnotwasm]

100. Quoting Warren Farrell

Says it all

[laureloak]

107. It always amazes me to watch how so many who complain about

not receiving fair treatment behave when the tables are turned. They're the first to deny fair treatment to someone else.

These young men did not choose their gender or race and they should stand up for their rights just as minorities should.

[caseymoz]

111. I thought they already had that organization. It's called a fraternity. nt