Distracted by Haiti, U.S. ignores Venezuela - People preparing for civil w

[Tinoire]

((Caution, you are now in a spin zone))

Distracted by Haiti, U.S. ignores Venezuela - People preparing for civil war


Jean-Bertrand Aristide has fled, Haiti is on the verge of total anarchy, and the United States has taken its eye off a larger and much more dangerous problem. The very day that Aristide fled, fires burned throughout Caracas, Venezuela, explosions and gunfire could be heard across the city, citizens battled and died at the hands of the National Guard, and the country pushed closer to all out civil war.

Civil war in Venezuela will make the anarchy in Haiti look pale and meaningless by comparison. The American media are filling the airwaves with images of violence from Port-Au-Prince, while "burying the lead" as they say in the news business. That "lead" being the exponentially larger story in Venezuela our press is ignoring.

While Haiti is indeed a headache for our nation, the coming civil war in Venezuela will have a disastrous impact on our national security and way of life. On any given day, this South American nation is the No. 1 to No. 3 exporter of oil and gasoline to the United States.

With regard to this oil, a little-known fact is that the largest franchise in the United States is Citgo. This franchise is owned by PDVSA, the national oil company of Venezuela, and as of today, controlled by the madman who runs the nation.

Sadly for the United States, President Hugo Chavez is much more than a madman who has his hand on the spigot of much needed oil. Many think him to be a terrorist who is actively trying to destabilize his neighbor Colombia, the region and much of South America. Worse, while he exports oil and gas to prop up his all-but-in-name dictatorial regime, he is actively importing terrorism, terrorists and even members of al-Qaida.

<snip / it only gets worse>

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2428200

MacKinnon was press secretary to former Sen. Bob Dole. He is also a former White House and Pentagon official, and an author.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

1. press-package for the next BushCo-led coup d'etat...

[Just Me]

31. Who have proven to be the MOST destructive oil-diggers,...

,...and have abused the blood and money of Americans and all other peoples to fill their vaults!!!

It is absolutely astounding to me how the ones who hold all guilt cast their evils upon anyone who stands in their way. *ahem*,...actually,...that IS how every evil criminal operates.

[Aidoneus]

2. bodes unwell..

ridiculous propaganda such as this suggests a bit of planning behind it.

:eyes:

[David__77]

3. Laughable and sinister.

This is fascist propaganda, pure and simple. As I like to point out: George Bush would do well to recall that Chavez, unlike him, got more votes than his opponent.

The poor working people of Venezuela will not easily return to the days of unbridled oligarchy. Indeed, neo-liberalism is on the rocks across that continent, with the Workers Party of Brazil, patriotic factions among the Peronistas, Gutierrez of Ecaudor, the Bolivian people's uprising, among others. The future looks good.

[Zhade]

4. Dear GOD, this is bad propaganda. I mean, it's blatant!

You can't throw around terms like "madman" and expect to be seen as credible!

Except, of course, in America. Land of the fee, home of the slave.

[Shanty Oilish]

5. MacKinnon

Not a typical Republican...

http://progressivetrail.org/articles/031129MacKinnon.shtml

snip...
"We are the most prosperous nation on earth, and yet according to the Census Bureau, 34.6 million Americans now live below the poverty line ($18,392 for a family of four). That is not a statistic, that is an indictment against all those in and out of politics who profess to speak for the poor.

"To add insult to injury -- which is an everyday occurrence when you are truly poor -- the Census Bureau also reports that 43.6 million Americans have no health insurance. To put it another way, the entire populations of about eight states have no health insurance.

"There are truly well-meaning people in politics who are saddened when they read such statistics. Saddened, but not galvanized into action. The reason, in my opinion, is that they just don't know any better. The vast majority of politicians on both sides of the aisle have absolutely no idea of the pain and hopelessness created by poverty.

"Unfortunately, I do..."

[pescao]

6. he sounds like a typical...

..jingoistic scare-mongering bully to me:

>Winning the peace in Iraq is important, but at what point do we turn our eyes to the south? Toward our own hemisphere and toward an evil just as unpalatable, just as real and potentially just as lethal as Osama bin Laden? Four hours south of the White House by jet sits a tyrant who openly taunts President Bush, our nation and our way of life. Again, the day that Aristide fled Haiti, Chavez was organizing yet another "hate" march against Bush and the United States, and inciting violence against the majority of his people.

>Aside from protecting our national security, my interest in this is personal. My wife is from Caracas, as are my in-laws and many friends. To a person, they strongly support the United States and believe we represent the hope of the world. Sadly, they, like many of our friends in Latin America, also believe that the United States has all but abandoned them to focus on Iraq. A belief Chavez tries to reinforce every day with his Hitler-like rhetoric.

still, the enemy of your enemy is your friend, right, draftcaroline?

[Just Me]

32. I would like to know what the heck you are talking about,...

,...please explain your, like, really weird post. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[pescao]

36. it makes sense if u know some DU history

draftcaroline is one of a handful of rabid chávez-haters that have infected this site. one of the arguments they use is that just because bush (our enemy) is enemies with chávez, it doesn't make chávez automatically our friend. indeed that's true, however no-one here would say they support chávez solely because bush hates him (though of course that's significant).

the reason draftcaroline's post above made me smile was because they were trying to give credibility to the MacKinnon, the author of the above piece and hardcore Republican, by illustrating what a 'progressive' he was, hence presumably giving weight to his extreme anti-chávez argument. draftcaroline is asking us to ignore this man's obvious warmongering-propaganda credentials ("Before going to the Pentagon, Mr. MacKinnon served at the White House as a writer for both Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush" - nice!) and clearly is supporting him now solely because he's turned his propaganda skills against chávez. a case of treating the enemy (MacKinnon) of draftcaroline's enemy (chávez) as a friend, which is exactly what we're accused of doing!

arrogant hypocrisy is something the escualidos (anti-bolivarians) do really well, otherwise i wouldn't've mentioned it...

[Judi Lynn]

39. Your post was perfectly clear.

You're not losing your grip, far from it!

The _Bush-backed and funded "opposition" is the LEAST DEMOCRATIC group of idiots and useless trash I have EVER seen discussed in any forum, anywhere, unless it's the Cuban Batistianos, with whom the Venezuelan "exiles" in Miami have formed a fast, enduring love bond.

They are fascists, NOT democratic, socially responsible citizens.

I can't IMAGINE how the great majority of Venezuelans who support their elected leader can be as civil toward them as they've been.

[pescao]

42. thanks!

don't think this has been posted yet:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1118

The Script of Destabilization as Applied to Venezuela

Wednesday, Mar 03, 2004

By: Dario Azzelini

These days the audience of Venezuela’s four most important private TV-channels must have the impression that there is a popular revolt against the Chávez government going on. Globovision is in a leading position with an uninterrupted live program. The local news-source for CNN is selling the idea of street fighting throughout the whole country. Even images of two burning litterbags or simply some rocks lying around are supported with dramatic music while aggressive politicians from the opposition talk about a supposed dictatorship and make calls for disobedience. Reporters of the same channel are filmed in front of a completely normal city highway and declare with a certain flavor of invitation: “The protests here will begin about midday, we’re gonna stay here until the blockades start.” On Venevision, also an organ of the coup-friendly sector of the opposition, we can observe messages of supposed calls of the audience on the bottom of the screen: “Out on the streets!” “Fight the dictatorship.” “Blockades with any means.” “Shame! Nobody can stay at home!” And a hysteric voice declares in a phone call: “People have to wake up! The regime is executing people on the streets all over the county!”

Reality on streets is obviously different. Several members of the opposition have been arrested during violent acts, while Carlos Melo, a former leader of “Causa R” (CR – Radical Cause), was arrested by the investigative police (DISIP) with two automatic high-powered rifles in his car.

But just as during the April 11th 2002 coup attempt, the mass media, controlled by rightwing businessmen, play a central role in the destabilization strategy of the opposition. So the virtual reality of the opposition, which is mainly formed by the same sectors that robbed the country for 40 years and kept most of those who now support the Chávez government in poverty and controlled them with repression, finds an echo in the international mass media.

The documentary “The revolution will not be televised” won several international prizes and was shown all over the western world; in some countries such as Germany and Britain even on public television. Nevertheless, very few journalists seriously thought about the virtual set-up of the coup. The same politicians that participated in the coup are today once again presented as the “democratic opposition” and the same TV channels that helped organize and support the coup are today once again the main source of information for the international press.

...

[Judi Lynn]

49. Wow! Well, now we've heard EVERYTHING.

After seeing the way they have operated since April, 2002, it's STILL so odd coming across informtion like this. I actually think I've seen allusions to this Polar beer thing before! They are REALLY desperate, when they roll out the old beer barrels to get the demostrators hammered!

(snip) The police force of the city’s largest district, of Libertador, which is governed by a pro-Chavez mayor and which, with its over two million inhabitants, has more inhabitants than all of the other districts put together, is not allowed to be active in the rest of the city. And the National Guard and the military police are, as long as there is no state of emergency, only allowed to protect the main thoroughfares and city freeways. So as to provide the necessary mood during the demonstrations, the oppositional company Polar, which is the largest beer producer in Venezuela, has been distributing free beer to the “demonstrators.” Also noticeable is that numerous freeway blockages are being organized with Polar trucks. In this way small groups can, at least in the virtual reality of television, plunge the city into chaos.
(snip)

Yep, you really want to see those guys lose their inhibitions, loosen up and just run amock, don't you? I would laugh, but it's too damned scarey.

Thanks for this more detailed look at "opposition" as it evolves.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

7. What a piece of trash article.

[lostnfound]

37. From a piece of trash newspaper..but is it a sign US is targeting V next?

Obviously trying to prepare the American public for believing Venezuela is on the edge of chaos..what is up the neocon's sleeves? Assassination..paramilitaries from Columbia..even terrorist bombings?

[Judi Lynn]

40. Had the same creepy feeling, here, too.

Sounds like they're trying to do a little "perception molding."
:shudder:

[pinniped]

8. Here is your standard press line, insert your choice of madman here...

Sadly for the United States, President ________ ________ is much more than a madman who has his hand on the spigot of much needed oil.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Ah, the war on terra

coming to a hemisphere near you.

The Neocons in Bu$hCo are truly out of their minds. Now that they are done destabilizing the ME and most of Asia, it's time to push the uncooperative countries in SA and the Caribbean over the edge. Especially since things didn't go so well in Afghanistan and Iraq and getting the oil out has proven to be more difficult than expected. Time to take over all that lovely crude in Venezuela. Bye, bye Chavez. Aristide was just the practice run.

[Judi Lynn]

10. No kidding, he IS a permanent resident of the (((((spin))))) zone.

Douglas MacKinnon
Douglas MacKinnon is Director of Federal Affairs and Communications at Sullivan & Worcester LLP. Prior to his current position, Mr. MacKinnon spent five years as Senator Bob Dole's director of communications. During that same period, he also served as director of communications for Verner, Liipfert, Bernhard, McPherson and Hand in Washington, D.C. and as one of the law firm's top Republican lobbyists. In his role with Bob Dole, Mr. MacKinnon interacted daily with the national television networks and major newspapers, negotiated commercial deals, helped write and negotiate book deals, drafted speeches and columns and worked regularly with the Bush Administration.
(snip)

Prior to working with Bob Dole and Verner Liipfert, Mr. MacKinnon served as Vice President at Barbour, Griffith & Rogers. BG&R is headed up by Haley Barbour and is considered the preeminent Republican lobbying firm in Washington.

Mr. MacKinnon spent three years at the Pentagon serving in a joint command as Special Assistant for Policy and Communications and also served as a spokesman for the Department of Defense, appearing on all of the national networks.

Before going to the Pentagon, Mr. MacKinnon served at the White House as a writer for both Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush.
(snip)

http://www.eduseed.org/board.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Looks as if it'd be hard to trust ANYTHING he says! As if we want this clown explaining Hugo Chavez to us.

Too damned bad it's his kind of rif-raff writing our country's policy until (I pray) _Bush leaves us alone.

[MidwestMomma]

11. This is not his Poppy's time

I don't think South/Central America will be quite so easy to subvert for Junior.

Won't keep them from trying and many innocents will die.

I just hope and pray that people will wake up from the propaganda induced trance in time to vote Bushco out of office. But today, not feeling too hopeful.

On the article, good thing for his people that Chavez is a 'madman'. Takes one to fight one...yes? }(

[Crachet2004]

12. The whole damn crooked-ass house of cards is beginning...

to collapse. I was in a fleamarket in Kentucky last fall, and they were selling Bananas-40 lbs for 4 dollars. And they had to be shipped all the way to KY from Central or South America! How much can those people down there be getting paid? But Red Bell Peppers from Israel are 2 for 3 dollars, at Walmart, in WV! There are no truly 'free' markets. Everything is manipulated!

I think there is a lot of economic injustice in this world, but people here kind of turn a blind eye to it, as long as it doesn't intrude it's ugly face into their own lives. But the pain our economic system inflicts on many, is beginning to be felt on the homefront! Politicians beware!

If George Bush sends Marines to Venzuela, it will be a sorry day for this nation, because the whole South American continent is a tendrbox...and Venzuela may be getting ready to enter a 'Guillotine' phase of it's struggle against elitist interests. Chavez seems to be goading Bush-daring him to intervene. I honestly hope George Bush is not stupid enough to do it.

No matter the outcome, what is happening in Venzuela bodes ill for fuel prices here in America...and that bodes ill for the GOP in the fall. Their mishandling of foreign relations has already caused more damage than can be repaired in fifty years...and much of what they have destroyed may be beyond repair.

Let Freedom Ring!

[Minstrel Boy]

13. "US ignores Venezuela" - if only.

"much more than a madman...terrorist...destabilize...al-Qaida"

God, how disgraceful is this?

I would laugh at such a bileous stream of lies, but I expect many reading this in their papers will swallow it uncritically, having virtually no knowledge, let alone informed opinion, of Venezuela and Chavez.

It says much about Chavez and his supporters - and also the oligarchs - that one of Chavez's most distinctive symbols is his blue-bound copy of the Venezuelan constitution. Perhaps, if Americans could pay attention without imperial filters like MacKinnon's, their own constitution could become a point to rally opposition against their own oligarchs.

[Tinoire]

16. You're so right. I found it at that "other" board

Free Republic: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1088911/posts

:scared:

[Minstrel Boy]

17. From that "other" board:

There is a movie out there called " The revolution will not be televised " While it did give some time to the opposition it was pretty much sympathetic to the dictator. I saw the movie in a little movie house that had a few Bush haters who were so rude they keep making loud comments thoughtout the movie. While watching the coup unravel I kept thinking " they should have shot that SOB when they had the chance". It was pretty clear from that movie that the Pro-Chavez forces consisted of the poor, lazy ,crazy, ignorant and/or power hungry criminal segment of the population and almost nothing short of civil war is going to get rid of this guy.

What makes people like this?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. Like we say in my country.

When they're born they actually come out of the wrong hole.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

23. Indoctri-nation from birth, TV from birth, the media from birth.

It's sad that we Americans are raised from birth to believe that our people and government are collectively Superman Jesus in a Cowboy Hat.

People are ignorant, not evil. And heavily indoctrinated with lies.

I have a cousin my age who works in the 'intelligence' field. She has recently assured me that "the US Constitution is alive and well or we wouldn't be having this conversation." And she meant it. AAARGH.

The truth of our nation's murderous history and present is well-hidden and there are plenty of foreign bad guys to distract from American self-knowledge about creating and arming them.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. "Superman Jesus in a Cowboy Hat"

That is just brilliant. It says it all. Do you mind if I borrow it?

[Just Me]

34. The "people" in Orwell's 1984 were clueless,...

,...the "people" in "The Matrix" were clueless.

Manipulating fear has been the trademark of power-mongers throughout history. I wish I had the power necessary to kill that one human weakness which still remains irrationally vulnerable.

[Just Me]

33. The "devil" LOL *eom*

[bemildred]

14. Utter horseshit. There is not going to be any civil war in Venezuela. nt

[jmcgowanjm]

15. Chavez called bush an asshole for his role in April2002 Coup

"Why would we immediately support an armed overthrow and not support a constitutionally elected government?" -
Jesse Jackson

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/

http://www.counterpunch.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/01/international/americas/01VENE.html?

The American people will never be told that we are 6%
using 26% of World's oil and borrowing 75%
of the total cost to do so.

Never mind that we are at PeakOil right now with
these implications:
1-Oil will never be as plentiful as now
2-The world can support only as many people
as there is oil
3-The US will take what it needs in anyway possible

If we attack Venezuela, it will take more than a couple
thousand marines.

When we attack Venezuela we'll also have to attack
Brazil and Argentina.

Despite the progress, however, demand in the largest country in South America will once again exceed production if it simply maintains the status quo.

http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/web_article_display.cfm?ARTICLE_CATEGORY=GenIn&ARTICLE_ID=199785

[Say_What]

19. The Accomplished Destruction of Aristide, the Planned Destruction of Hugo

<clips>

The drama of Haiti and of the Aristide administration implies many dangers for Cuba and Venezuela. It is the final outcome of Washington’s Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) against popular governments in Latin America: namely, subversion-destruction.

The last phase of this strategy can be seen in Haiti, its initial phases in Nestor Kirchner’s Argentina, and its middle phase in Hugo Chavez’s Venezuela.

Sometimes this strategy ends with the death of the Latin American protagonist, as was the case with Salvador Allende. In other circumstances, the protagonist manages to go into exile, as in the case of the Guatemalan president Jacobo Arbenz. A third scenario is the “re-education” of the Latin American protagonist within the empire and his subsequent political recycling in his country, and that was the case of Aristide in Haiti and Michael Manley in Jamaica.

Regardless of the outcomes that Washington’s Standard Operating Procedure may have on our countries, the initial aim of the subversive industrial/military complex of the United States is always the same: to tame a leader or social movement that has come to power through elections or de-facto, and whose political agenda does not reflect the interests of Washington.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1115


Supporters of Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez march to support him in Caracas, Venezuela, Sunday, Feb. 29, 2004. The sign at bottom reads 'Bush is a terrorist.' (AP Photo/Leslie Mazoch)

[bemildred]

20. Left out Brazil.

Lula seems to be on the list now, too.

[Say_What]

21. I figured that would only be a matter of time. Argentina's Kirchner

is right behind as well. COHA has an article about him:

<clips>
Argentina’s Kirchner: Latin America’s Most Dynamic Leader in 2003

· Under Kirchner’s guidance, Argentina’s economy became one of the biggest surprises and best regional performers of 2003, projected to have grown between 7.8 and 8 percent.

· Kirchner initially only attracted 23 percent of the vote in his presidential campaign, but now, a year later, enjoys an 85 percent approval rating.

· Argentina’s leader insists that his country is no longer a “carpet” for U.S. economic and diplomatic agendas, in response to “insolent” remarks by the State Department’s controversial figure, Roger Noriega.

· Argentina is counting on Washington’s support to work out the $88 billion debt owed to international creditors.

· Bush, who met with Kirchner in Monterrey, indecisively discusses foreign debt and brings up the issue of the “defiant” Hugo Chávez of Venezuela.

<http://www.coha.org/NEW_PRESS_RELEASES/New_Press_Releases_2004/04.04_Kirchner_2003_Leader.htm>

[jmcgowanjm]

22. James Baker Institute of Rice University- All Oil is On Us

HOUSTON, Mar. 1 -- Brazil's energy sector needs further restructuring to meet its domestic oil needs, said Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy in a recent study.

http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/web_article_display.cfm?ARTICLE_CATEGORY=GenIn&ARTICLE_ID=199785

If it is not, well...
the American public, conditioned to be suspicious of all things Arab (Fill in opponent here), would have little sympathy for nomadic Arabs (Opponent) fighting against a U.S. "ally." It is a scenario that could be replayed in every part of the world where local secessionist groups are pitted against brutal regimes and greedy multinational corporations--the Aceh region of northern Sumatra, West Papua, and Nigeria's Delta Region, (Brazil) to name but a few.

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen01082003.html



http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/web_article_display.cfm?ARTICLE_CATEGORY=GenIn&ARTICLE_ID=199785

[bemildred]

25. Yes, I saw the Rice "study" and another one dumping

on Lula because the economy "contracted 0.2%", and
that is why I figured that he was on the list for
"democratization". I haven't really seen much about
Kirchner so far, but given the way these guys are all
working together he will show up sooner or later.

In another story, this guy is worried that Chavez is
diverting too much money to the public good and there
won't be enough to "keep oil production" up.

[Judi Lynn]

28. Kirchner is standing up to the pResident's Latin American squad!

In Argentina, Noriega publicly criticized the government's domestic policies and advocated that the Kirchner government break ties with Cuba. President Kirchner retorted: "We're through being used as a carpet... nobody can sit us down, and much less challenge us, because we are an independent country with dignity."
(snip)
http://www.counterpunch.org/carlsen02272004.html

They also warned him about Venezuela, and Chavez, I believe after that, and got back more of the same!

[bemildred]

44. Yeah, there is always the constant whining noise in the background

coming from Riech and Noriega and their ilk, I just hadn't been
seeing much in the state propaganda organs.

[bobbieinok]

29. as an alum of Rice - YUCK

better start reading that info material sent to alums - did NOT know this Baker inst existed

did know Brown-Root (now part of Halliburton) was big contributor to Rice

students when I was there claimed the buildings constructed by Brown-Root were poorly built

[daleo]

26. I very much doubt that BFEE is 'ignoring' Venezuela

At least not in the sense that normal people mean when they say ignore - leave alone, don't get involved, stay neutral, MYOB, etc. I imagine the author of this article means it in the BFEE sense - not yet fully undermining a democracy.

[maggrwaggr]

27. the US is behind the instability, to drive up oil prices

and it's working quite well.

Record profits for the oil industry continue.

[jmcgowanjm]

38. yes oil $ are going up, maggrwaggr, but

the US wants the oil, to control it from the ground
to your gas tank.

Three Days of the Condor

Chavez, Lula, and Kiirschner are in the way.

And I think it's going to take more than the CIA/NED
to pull this one off.

As FTW has shown in recent stories – using declassified CIA documents – the CIA was well aware of Peak Oil in the mid 1970s. 

http://www.newsgateway.ca/Three_Days_of_the_Condor.htm

[SoCalDem]

30. Haiti is the dry run..and staging area for Venezuela..

Poor Hugo.. He might be in for the fight of his life.:eyes:

[Say_What]

35. Sad to say that Maxine Waters mentioned the same thing when interviewed

tonight on KPFA's Flashpoint. She also believe the Bush junta has its eye on Cuba. As Chris Dodd said so eloquently in his statement on Haiti

...."But did the cumulative effect of these failures amount to a decision that we thought we could no longer support this democratically elected government? If that becomes the standard in this hemisphere, we are going to find ourselves sitting by and watching one democratically elected government after another fall to those that breed chaos and remove governments with which they don't agree. They are being told by the Bush administration now that the Haitian Government was a government of failed leadership. That is a whole new standard when it comes to engaging in the kind of activity we have seen over the last several days."...

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1188099>

[jmcgowanjm]

41. we have seen over the last several days(no, years)

Precident is everything in law.

The SCOTU started this in 12122000.
Then accellerated in/after 911
The Patriot Act compromised Congress.
Then Afghanistan.
Then the Major (meaning it will take big $ to
pull this off) Iraq.
And the precident is now in place-just add
$ and enough Fodder Units-to overthrow
any and all.

And don't think that China does not notice.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/02/25/042.html

[jmcgowanjm]

43. And speaking of China and South America

Oil-rich countries in Africa and South America have
developed friendly relationship with China and the
trade and economic exchanges between China and
these nations are expanding. Oil rich nations in these
regions are generally less developed and some of them
are suffering from long-term sanctions by the US. Their
oil industry is poor. As they have a strong incentive to
export oil for forex to alleviate poverty, they generally
offer favorable terms for their oil export trade

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200402/28/eng20040228_136084.shtml

Whoo Boy! You can't get any plainer than that.

Monroe Doctrine, What's that?

[bemildred]

45. That is interesting.

I see a lot of stories now where the second and third world
nations are starting to do business directly with each other.

[jmcgowanjm]

48. You're right / and the US Command Economy cannot allow this

[bemildred]

52. Well then they are fucked.

They are fucked in Iraq and it's starting to look
they cannot even pull off a nice clean little coup in Haiti.
The intimidation is not working. All they can do with that
aircraft carrier is threaten, and there are too many people
saying "fuck you" now, you can't threaten all of them, and
bombing Haiti will do nothing, 75% of the people have no
infrastructure to speak of as it is. We have grabbed the tar
baby in Iraq, and it has the US military tied down and worn
out. It is no accident that they are sending minimal troop
levels to Haiti, and are begging for help. Have some popcorn,
it's going to be quite a show.

[jmcgowanjm]

53. Whoa! Bemildred! You go Girl!

[Say_What]

50. The world needs a balance--I won't be surprised to see another

superpower emerge. The 400 pound gorrilla aka the USA is getting WAY out of hand.

Watch CARICOM re Aristide's removal--they denounced it immediately--and they are calling for his reinstatement. I watched the House committe meeting last night on CSPAN. They're gonna keep the pressure on this bigtime. Especially impressive was Jeffrey Sachs--I wish I could find a transcript--he was AWESOME. He said he's been in contact daily with Aristide and that they are fearing for their safety. MANY spoke openly about the US coups over the decades.

Not only is CARICOM outraged, this *government* the US is putting in place will unlikely be recognized by the UN or OAS. Stay tuned--it's gonna get interesting.

[Polemonium]

46. When the lies come from so many different sources and in

so many different areas. Where do you begin. Civil War in Venezuela, not in my lifetime. I can see it now: the fat cats who are against Chavez trade in their designer suits and ties for ... yes that's right guns.

[Say_What]

47. If you see the documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"

you will learn that the guns have been a reality for some time now. The oligarchs actually have these meetings where they are taught how to use guns with a little speech that goes something like:

'Your servants may be listening to your conversations. They are also joining Bolivarian circles--they could present a danger to you and your household. Here's a gun and here's how to use it.'

Man, if that isn't a recipe for disaster I don't know what is. But the documentary also stated how many people in Venezuela carry firearms and the amount was astounding.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

51. Everyone's packing down there.

What these "riquitos" will do is agitate some of the poor and gullible elements and have them do the fighting, while they hide their asses in Miami.