Hosts Ask Aristide to Stop Blaming U.S.

[Loonman]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040302/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/aristide_exile_27

BANGUI, Central African Republic - The African hosts of Jean-Bertrand Aristide have asked the exiled Haitian leader to stop blaming the United States for his ouster as they work to get another country to take him, a top official said Tuesday.

[Robbien]

1. Seems like the CAR is afraid of losing their aid

Someone who has hold of US purse strings must have made a call to the Central African Republic.

[Tinoire]

5. They're an old French colony

Gained its independence in 1960

The French don't like letting go of their colonies...

Blair, Bush & Chirac... all on the same sheet of imperialistic music. Their only disagreements seem to be over who gets the biggest pieces. This is all so depressing.


French Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie suggested Tuesday that Aristide was being guarded by French soldiers, but later backtracked. She said French troops had been in the country for several months training African soldiers, but their mission ``has nothing to do with the presence of President Aristide.''

<snip>

Bush telephoned French President Jacques Chirac on Tuesday to praise ``the excellent French-American cooperation in Haiti'' and to ``thank France for its action,'' said Chirac's spokeswoman, Catherine Colonna said.

Chirac told Bush he was ``delighted by the quality of the cooperation'' between the two countries in handling the Haiti crisis and the relatively smooth departure of Aristide. But there was no comment from the French presidential palace on whether that cooperation may or may not have extended to forcing Aristide to leave.

http://www.news-journal.com/news/content/news/ap_story.html/Intl/AP.V4476.AP-Aristide-Exile.html;COXnetJSessionID=AFC9cPXQgyGoiENxsSeRqilpOcvFHOTSIlk2BhefWIaE2MnMv58G!-1732990416?urac=n&urvf=10782645737160.7751573305641076

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3812774,00.html

[tom_paine]

2. In other words: "The Empire is leaning on us!"

Aristide is lucky the Busheviks haven't sanctioned a hit on him.

Although maybe they have, and the Bushevik Employee is just waiting for things to die down.

[pinto]

3. their request is apparently more about CAR/US relations than Aristide

from the article:

"The authorities have already called on Aristide to remain calm, to stop making accusations against America," Foreign Minister Charles Wenezoui told AP.


"We fear that this kind of declaration compromises relations between the Central African Republic and the United States," he said.

<snip>

Bozize, who took power in March 2003, has been courting international support and aid to stabilize his country. The U.S. Embassy in Bangui closed on Nov. 2, 2002, as Bozize's rebellion raged in the country.

[Mr.Green93]

4. he should go home and lead his people

[Tinoire]

6. If they don't like it, they should send him back to Haiti

Especially since he never asked them for asylum.

[ManneredChild]

7. What about this report on Aristide

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Hti-summary-eng

I just don't know what to think of Aristide with respectable people like Amnesty International talking him down.

[htuttle]

11. Have you seen what Amnesty International says...

...about the United States?

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Usa-summary-eng

Or Israel:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Isr-summary-eng


Or the UK:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Gbr-summary-eng

Or the C.A.R., where the US dumped President Aristide:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Caf-summary-eng

My point is, Amnesty International has very high standards -- as they should. Very, very few countries escape their criticism.

Are you prepared to deal with all the issues that Amnesty International raises about the US? Because I think we should do so before we go complaining about other country's AI reports -- especially when they are not a whole lot worse than ours. Read them and see.

[ManneredChild]

13. Sure but that's another thread

This one is about Haiti and its ousted leader.

[Tinoire]

18. Where are they talking down Aristide?

That report is the equivalent of saying "while Clinton was in power, certain democratic voters committed crimes".

You surely do not expect Aristide to control 97% of the population supporting him during a popular uprising against the ruling class.

[ManneredChild]

20. I expect him to keep law and order

And also keep those under his command in control. That's not asking too much for a LEADER is it?

[Tinoire]

22. Then I'd suggest you work on your US LEADERS

Bush needs to do a better job of reigning in the hooligans under him. There should be NO crime on the streets of America! No murders! No theft!

If he can't do that, Russia should come in and finance a Coup d'Etat. The people of America would then be better off.

[ManneredChild]

24. I think that's another thread rather than this one

While I agree with your sentiment this thread is about Haiti and its failure to enforce law and order.

[Tinoire]

28. No this thread is about reality & justice & not excusing the Bush admin's

coup by using the excuse that 100% of the people in a populist political party backing Aristide wweren't angels.

It was your contention that Aristide as a leader is responsible for controlling the people who vote for him that brought this about.


I am showing you how silly it is to expect that.

[TankLV]

31. They're BAAAAAAACK!

This place is positively CRAWLING with 'em!

[ManneredChild]

34. Crawling with what?

Those that think we should not be involved in running Haiti? Is that a stance that you don't approve of?

[Tinoire]

38. The absolute fixation on the ONE document

the FRAPH supporters are posting on right wing web-sites to "justify" killing thousands and enslaving millions is telling.

Expect any moment now to start seeing posts about how Duvalier is reformed, how there were few human rights abuses under him, blah blah blah and how his return would be a good thing.

A few weeks max.

[ParanoidPat]

62. LOL! Way too obvious huh......

.....but that's another thread! :evilgrin:

[ManneredChild]

33. As I said we should stay out of Haiti's politics and let them handle it

The only thing silly here is ignoring the AI report on Haiti and Aristide. The only excuses I see here are those used to ignore the AI report.

[Zhade]

42. Too late to stay out. The U.S. got itself involved through the coup.

If Washington hadn't enabled the coup, then maybe we wouldn't be involved. Ever think of that?

[Mokito]

63. It's not so much 'ignoring' the AI report.

Rather relativating. As someone said before, the AI reports are based on very strict criteria and I think that not a single country on this globe gets a perfectly positive report.
This said, it makes it almost impossible (and perhaps unethical) to base socio-political decisions purely and solemnly on an AI report. If that would be the case not a single nation would know a single day of rest. It would be AC-politics all day, every day.

[Dirk39]

45. While Death Squads supported, armed and paid for by YOUR...

government slaughter people in the slums of Haiti, you sit at home, reading Amnesty-Reports about human rights abuse by Aristide and his supporters?

Wait for the Amnesty Reports about Haiti to come.

Talking about human rights abuse by Aristide and the former government of Haiti NOW?

I guess, if after the civil war against slavery in the USA the winners would have been toppled by a foreign government and slavery would have been reinstalled,while the president is kidnapped: you would start a discussion about the cruelties commited by the north during the civil war.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[nolabels]

59. Nice of you to drop in Dirk, how is the Black Forest doing?

Good I hope, Germany is great place to take a vacation

[pinto]

9. catch the paternalism in all this?

[Chicago Democrat]

8. Let Aristide go free! Vive Aristide!

Let Aristide go to South Africa, Canada, The Netherlands... Any number of freedom loving countries would willingly accept the legally elected President of the Haitian Republic.

Why are some "democrats" supporting Guy Phillipe and his goon squads?

[ManneredChild]

10. I trust these guys and they don't think too highly of him

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Hti-summary-eng

[pinto]

12. I trust AI, also. the point is the international community's response...

You've got an elected government. You've got a civil situation with human rights accusations against both sides. You've got an established legal system. What's the world to do? well, for one, step in diplomatically, stop refusing IMF support, leverage that support with local groups to try and facilitate compromise and a basic standard of human rights across the board. Support the OAS resolution 822. Not real "flash" kind of process, but it is one way the world can and does work. thanks for the post(s).

[Bandit]

14. Do they think very highly of Democracy?

What is your point? Do you agree with the coup?

[ManneredChild]

15. I agree with AI

The coup is their problem and we should stay out of it.

[htuttle]

16. Should we have sent financial backing to the opposition?

Would that have been included in 'staying out of it'?

[ManneredChild]

17. The coup is their problem and we should stay out of it.

I think I made it quite clear. 'staying out of it' would certainly prevent us from sending financial backing to the opposition wouldn't you think?

[Judi Lynn]

21. You're damned tootin' right.

Our "staying out of it" should ALSO be retroactive!

From an article written in 2002, containing material concerning the elder Bush coup prior to the re-instatement of Aristide by our own ELECTED Democratic President, Bill Clinton:

1990: Democratic elections are finally organized. U.S. opposes Jean-Bertrand Aristide’s candidacy and support their own man, former World Bank employee: Marc Louis Bazin. Following Aristide’s overwhelming victory in these democratic elections, U.S. Ambassador Alvin Adams warns festive Haitians with Kreyòl proverb Apre dans tanbou lou (After the dance, drums are heavy to carry).

1991 (September: 7 months after Aristide’ swearing in): Army officials now known to have been on CIA payroll (Nairn, 1995) overthrew President Aristide in a bloody coup d’état in which over 5000 Haitians perished. Former CIA Director, Georges Bush Sr., becomes President of the USA. The Vatican is the only state to officially recognize the de facto government established by the military putchists. (See: Haiti’s Nightmare The Cocaine Coup & The CIA Connection by Paul DeRienzo, http://pdr.autono.net/haiti.html).

1992: Shocking Murder of Prominent Aristide Supporter and Campaign Financer Antoine Izmery who revealed to the New-York Times that Jimmy Carter had tried to get Aristide to concede the election before the first votes were counted. (Written in Blood, Heinl p735) «The Bush and Clinton administrations expressed support for Aristide as Haiti’s elected president, but behind the scenes the junta had powerful allies in the CIA and in the offices of conservative US Senators Jesse Helms and Robert Dole.» (Everybody Needs Some Bodies Sometime (Haiti)—excerpted from the book Toxic Sludge Is Good For You: Lies, Damn Lies and the Public Relations Industry The Torturers’ Lobby by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton) http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Public_Relations/TortLob_Haiti_TSIGFY.html

Jesse Helms, a leading opponent of Aristide, brought CIA analyst Brian Latell to Capitol Hill, to brief selected senators and representatives on allegations that Aristide had been treated for mental illness. It turned out that the time during which the CIA report alleges Aristide was treated at a Canadian hospital falls within the same period that Aristide was studying and teaching in Israel. (snip/...)

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/396.html

It's easy to recognize you see how far back we need to go to REALLY "stay out of it."

[dax]

25. "Stay out of it"?! U. S. CAUSED IT!

I guess you haven't seen any pictures yet-those are AMERICAN weapons those rebels are toting,(they don't even make weapons in Haiti) people on the ground in Haiti were saying yesterday that American Marines were greeting rebel leaders as if they already knew them. Regardless of any mistakes made by Aristide, there is undisputed factual corroborated evidence that the rebels armed by America went through the countryside and murdered civilians, burned schools and hospitols, on their way to the capitol. Noone has investigated the claims of the rebels that Aristide was responsable for gangs that murdered-Phillipe and his ilk have already demonstrated they will kill their own and blame it on him(Aristide). Now Powell is saying they won't be "part of the new government" since he already knows they (rebels)are butchers- US just used them to provide black faces on their occupation of Haiti. The "rebels" have never won more than 12% of the vote- and of course the sweat shop owners were kissing their cheeks when they rolled into the capitol- Aristide just raised the minimum wage to 70 gourdes a day (less than five bucks) but a whole lot more than the 15 gourdes they used to pay. You also have to consider the fact that Aristide did not privatize all the services like they wanted him to-he was trying to keep Haiti independent something US and France just can't stand-uppity slaves need to know their place! Aristide doubled the number of schools in the last year and once that 70% illiteracy rate gets taken care of they will know that the Americans are not their friends-can't let that happen! They were only cheering because 5,000 civilians didn't get massacred like the last time US sponsored a coup over there. Haiti was struggling because of the US embargo-they paid 5 million on FEES and then the US held up their loans and still -with that pariah CUBA's help they were building a medical system and roads where they had never been before-on their own-nothing puts you on the regime change list faster than independent success. US went in because Venezuala was about to come protect Aristide and it would have been embarrassing for Bushco to have Hugo investigate the fact that the rebels were armed, trained and sponsored by the CIA. Propaganda sucks don't it?!? why do so many believe it- jump down the rabbit hole if you want but don't count on the drink to make you tall enough to get out.

[ManneredChild]

30. Are you addressing me?

I said we should stay out of it. Are you by chance reading something more into my words than exactly what I said?

You have a very nice flame going there..just don't point it my way please.

[Tinoire]

23. Quotes supporting your deep thoughts please.

It would be interesting to try and follow your reasoning.

[ManneredChild]

26. AI summed up my deep thoughts nicely

If you read the AI story you'll see they are right on base and they support what's best for the people as do I. Aristide got away with some really nasty stuff for too long judging by the AI report.

[Tinoire]

29. Quotes. Because I must be stupid. I am not seeing what you see

at all. Quotes please. Deep thoughts please. Let's see if you have any idea what you're talking about.

[ManneredChild]

36. AI report

An unprecedented wave of violent clashes in November and December, involving supporters of opposing parties and at times the police, was sparked by the failure of political leaders to move towards long-demanded elections. At least five people were reportedly killed and many more wounded in the confrontations. On 17 November in Cap Haïtien, the largest ever march in protest against the government of Jean-Bertrand Aristide was held. It was peaceful. The Haitian National Police (HNP) were accused of repressing anti-government protests while failing to intervene to control violent pro-government crowds.

[Tinoire]

37. So your problem is with the police, not Aristide then.

I fail to see why a democratically elected leader should be whisked away by the US because the police was "accused" (by whom?) of repressing anti-government protests (by the FRAPH? the rebels? the business elite) while failing to "intervene". What the hell does that sentence mean? That's ALL you could find and it isn't even related to Aristide.

This is humorous. What you are defending is Andy Aipad, group 184, American citizen, the largest sweat-shop owner in Haiti, and his "employers strike". An employers strike? Yes, 97% of the population should just buckle to Andy Aipad's demands and be grateful to earn $1/day. I hope to see you out in the streets of the US the day the corporations here decide to have "employers strikes". You would be there wouldn't you?

====

17 November - Many private businesses in Port-au-Prince closed their doors on Monday in respect of the employers' strike, called to protest against the incidents during the demonstration on Friday. Shops and banks did not open, nor did private schools, although the State-owned banks, the public adminstration and public transport, as well as street markets, functioned as normal. In Cap-Haïtien only the private banks were closed. (AFP)

15 November - André Apaid, the coordinator of the Group of 184, has said that the government will not allow fair elections to take place in Haiti. Speaking after the premature ending of the Group of 184 rally in central Port-au-Prince on Friday, Apaid said that the police, while supposedly dispersing government supporters, sprayed the demonstrators with tear gas. He condemned the police for doing nothing to stop counter-demonstrators throwing stones at the Group of 184 supporters, while arresting those who were engaged to protect the Group of 184 leaders. (Haiti Press Network)

15 November - During a press conference today, the Group of 184 issued a call for a general strike across the country on 17 November. The call followed the violent dispersal of supporters of the Group of 184 by Aristide supporters at the Champ de Mars rally on Friday. (AlterPresse)

http://haitisupport.gn.apc.org/fea_news_main22.html

====

I am over-joyed to see you so concerned with human rights. Please write to your Representatives about this. Tell the Amnesty International sent you and that their word is gold to you:

President George W. Bush said last Wednesday that all Haitians attempting to flee to the US would be stopped and returned, showing a blatant disregard for the most fundamental obligation states have towards refugees not to forcibly return them to a situation where they could face human rights abuses.

"All forcible returns of Haitians to Haiti should be suspended unless or until their entitlement to protection has been determined through a full and fair procedure and their return can take place in safety, dignity, and with full respect for their human rights", Amnesty International concluded.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr360112004

[ManneredChild]

39. I fail to see why a democratically elected leader should be whisked away

by the US too. I do understand why the people of Haiti wanted to get rid of their "leader" that could not even control his police.

I hope they elect an honest leader this time.

[Tinoire]

40. Wow. Your statement is too sad for words.

Sadder for America, than Haiti, that people swallow the propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Afghanistan? Iraq? Saddaam had WMDs right? And the Iraqi people are better off without him and the Afghans love us?

Free Labor!
Free OIL!

Here. Just to prepare you for the next one. Read the blatant propaganda. It was the same with Haiti. Bush co and friends have already started with the demonization of Chavez. Even Amnesty International has things to say for the anti-Chavez folks to use.

The policing of public demonstrations has frequently resulted in human rights violations by the police and security forces in Venezuela over the last 15 years. The authorities have consistently failed to investigate and punish officials responsible for abuses or effectively implement United Nations guidelines on the use of force or firearms. Incidents of political violence, attributed to both government or opposition supporters, that have taken place under President Chavez's administration, such as the deaths and injuries that occurred in the context of the attempted coup of 11 April 2002, have not been investigated effectively and have gone unpunished. The impunity enjoyed by the perpetrators encourages further human rights violations in a particularly volatile political climate.
http://news.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530022004

Just letting you know so that next conversation, you will be better prepared.

====

Distracted by Haiti, U.S. ignores Venezuela - People preparing for civil war


((Caution, you are now in a spin zone))

Distracted by Haiti, U.S. ignores Venezuela - People preparing for civil war


Jean-Bertrand Aristide has fled, Haiti is on the verge of total anarchy, and the United States has taken its eye off a larger and much more dangerous problem. The very day that Aristide fled, fires burned throughout Caracas, Venezuela, explosions and gunfire could be heard across the city, citizens battled and died at the hands of the National Guard, and the country pushed closer to all out civil war.

Civil war in Venezuela will make the anarchy in Haiti look pale and meaningless by comparison. The American media are filling the airwaves with images of violence from Port-Au-Prince, while "burying the lead" as they say in the news business. That "lead" being the exponentially larger story in Venezuela our press is ignoring.

While Haiti is indeed a headache for our nation, the coming civil war in Venezuela will have a disastrous impact on our national security and way of life. On any given day, this South American nation is the No. 1 to No. 3 exporter of oil and gasoline to the United States.

With regard to this oil, a little-known fact is that the largest franchise in the United States is Citgo. This franchise is owned by PDVSA, the national oil company of Venezuela, and as of today, controlled by the madman who runs the nation.

Sadly for the United States, President Hugo Chavez is much more than a madman who has his hand on the spigot of much needed oil. Many think him to be a terrorist who is actively trying to destabilize his neighbor Colombia, the region and much of South America. Worse, while he exports oil and gas to prop up his all-but-in-name dictatorial regime, he is actively importing terrorism, terrorists and even members of al-Qaida.

<snip / it only gets worse>

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2428200

[ManneredChild]

43. Why change the subject

This is about Haiti not Venezuela.

[Tinoire]

49. Is is too much for you to handle more than one propaganda point at a time?

You really did need that head's up then! Hopefully next time your talking points will be better prepared and you might have more than one weak paragraph.

Better hurry though, you don't have long to get prepared. That ass-hole _Bush is in a rush.

[bicentennial_baby]

41. Are you fucking kidding me?

"I fail to see why a democratically elected leader should be whisked away by the US too"

Yes folks, that sound you just heard was my head exploding... :nuke:

[ManneredChild]

44. Why do you support the US whisking away elected leaders?

I cerainly don't support the US whisking away elected leaders?

Why would your head explode when someone does not support the US whisking away elected leaders?

[KoKo]

27. BUT! has AI gone the way of "Nature Conservancy" and other groups in that

their original purpose has been take over by the Corporatists raking in Big Bucks by being in bed with those they shouldn't be sleeping with?

When was Amnesty International's last Success? If you tell me how recent it was and what it was, then I will think that I should listen to them about Haiti.

But, I don't see them as "visible/viable" anymore. What are their recent successes...? :shrug: We have invaded Afghanistan/Iraq/ and now have had some "thing" going on in Haiti to topple Aristede. We are responsible for even more "underground" atrocities the world over.

I see more action from "GreenPeace" than from "Amnesty I." :-(

[ManneredChild]

35. Maybe so but I now see the people of Haiti are celebrating

It seems that 90+% that elected him is shrinking fast.

[Say_What]

46. Those are the murderers they broke out of jail --like in this photo

There's a blood bath going on there, thanks to your pResident George AWOL-Boy Bush. Executions, torture, homes burned out, an elected official who lives in fear because Guy Philippe (another sordid character) is out to kill him. Oh yeah, plenty to celebrate </sarcasm>


Supporters greet rebel leader Louis-Jodel Chamblain upon his arrival in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, Monday, March 1, 2004. Chamblain, a convicted killer and accused death squad leader, says he has no plans of fading into the shadows. (AP Photo/Pablo Aneli)


A Haitian killed execution style lies in the street where he died as early morning passersby throw long shadows towards him in Port-au-Prince, March 2, 2004. U.S. Marines began patrolling the capital today in the first international effort to quell violence that surrounded the departure of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. REUTERS/Andrew Winning

[AZCat]

47. Here is what AI has to say about the rebel leaders...

<snip>
2. that the MIF guarantee that notorious human rights offenders with pending sentences for human rights convictions, such as rebel leaders Louis Jodel Chamblain and Jean Pierre Baptiste ('Jean Tatoune') are taken into custody and brought before the Haitian justice system.
<snip>

link:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR360122004?open&of=ENG-HTI

Since AI is part of this, I thought I should bring up that they are NOT supporters of Chamblain, et al.

Their article doesn't say anything about Aristide, though. I guess they are staying out of that for the moment.

[ManneredChild]

48. He is not my president

Mine is Al Gore. Who is your president?

[Tinoire]

50. This idiot

[Mika]

51. This Miami Herald cartoon says it all

The Bush minion Cuban exile run city bond rating is most important (elections, and there are new sports stadium boondoggles for repug connected billionaires to be built).

[tedzbear]

64. Please, before you say another word, read this:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0302-08.htm


At first I bought the BS that Aristide was corrupt. But after much reading on Haiti and its history I have changed my opinion. Aristide was no angel, but he was no devil either. He tried to make Haiti a better place, but he was blocked in every attempt by his opposition (led by the United States). Personally, I would vote for Aristide over ANY of his opponents any day (including *).

[Judi Lynn]

65. Excellent article by Peter Hallward

Very insightful.

In reading his thoughts on the 2000 election, I remembered one small fact which was mentioned by one of the Black Caucus's members in some speeches given last night in the House of Representatives. I think it was New York's Major Owen who said that Aristide actually didn't take office himself until 2001, and the whole idea that any possible irregularities, had there actually been any, could NOT have been laid at his feet, since he was not in charge at that time.

I had never heard this before. He said that it has been a deliberate effort on the part of right-wing propaganda spinners to leave the impression that Jean-Bertrand Aristide had been the President for 10 years or so in a straight line, thereby dumping the impression on people that there had been grave election problems, and that they had been his fault.

The article you provided really showed some needed light on that election.

Too bad the pro-coup people don't take the time to do any reading FIRST before making their assertions, but then, if they did, we wouldn't be hearing from them!

[Tinoire]

19. Chalabi asks Iraqis to stop blaming Bush n/t

[TankLV]

32. bush* is NOT a War Criminal!

So stop saying that!

(I'm being sarcastic - for the mentally impaired who have come out of the woodwork lately)

[Chicago Democrat]

57. Class shut up! Shut UP! SHUT UP!

Sister Mary Elephant

:)

[MidwestMomma]

52. It was my understanding that Aristide must ask for asylum

And that is the reason there is a problem with finding a country for him. From the article:

"South Africa has said in principle it's not opposed to taking in Aristide, but that it hasn't received a formal request."

As I understand, Aristide must make the request. I remember reading somewhere on the day he was forced out of Haiti, when no one knew where he was, that was why they had a problem finding a country to take him to, because the request must come from Aristide and the countries such as South Africa and Panama, had not received a request from him. Does anyone else remember this part of the story?

I'm wondering if the reason Aristide is not making such a request is because that would be saying that he is not going back and that he left voluntarily. But I'm not sure what the laws are regarding asylum seekers so I can only wonder. Thoughts from anyone on this?

[dax]

53. They came to his house in the middle of the night-

Go to Democracy Now and listen to the interviews-several people have talked to him and he is on one of the segments himself, also his wife Mildred. A contingent of marines and diplomats came to his house/contacted him by phone and basically told him they would unleash Philippe and his mob on the palace to start killing not only Aristide but other civilians. The last coup with Philippe resulted in 5,000 deaths so when Rummy says Aristide "left for the good of his country" that is technically correct. He did not want the bloodbath they threatened him with. He had been requesting assistance and did not request asylum because he had no warning they were going to show up and "make him an offer he could not refuse....

[MidwestMomma]

54. Thanks for the infor but I already all about how he was forced to leave as

I've been following this quite intently. What I wanted thoughts on was this question of seeking asylum. It appears to me that they are trying to spin it that they have to keep him in the Central African Republic because they can't find a country to take him. As the quote from the article shows, South Africa has still not received a request for asylum. My point is, according to what I've heard, no country will take him because the request for asylum must come from Aristide himself.

Suppostion on why he was flown to CAR is because they were the only ones that would take him at the request of the US/France as opposed to Aristide himself requesting.

So my question is...if it's true that Aristide won't ask for asylum there must be a reason why. What is the reason? That's what this inquiring mind wants to know.

[Judi Lynn]

55. I heard that he had not requested asylum

simply because he had not been given a legitimate choice to leave, or stay, and on his own volition, would have wished to stay in Haiti, as he had told Haitians, earlier.

I also heard that with South Africa, the request MUST come from the petitioner personally. Anything less would look like some one just dumped Aristide off there, which would be the case, where _Bush is concerned, which is truly shabby.

[windansea]

56. some info

Powell said that the first country Aristide requested to go to refused him, "and we went through an hour and half of negotiations to find alternatives."

The secretary said about 15 members of Aristide's security detachment accompanied him, but Rangel and Waters said Aristide claimed to have only his wife, his brother and two security members.

"That's what happened, notwithstanding any cell phone reports to the contrary," Powell said.

The kidnapping claim is "absolutely false," concurred Parfait Mbaye, the communications minister for the Central African Republic, where Aristide's party was taken.

The minister told CNN that Aristide had been granted permission to land in the country after Aristide himself -- as well as the U.S. and French governments -- requested it.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/03/02/aristide.claim/index.html

[daleo]

58. For me, Powell's credibility is shot

The address to the U.N. before the Iraq invasion did it for me. Maybe you still think he can be trusted to tell the truth, but most on DU probably have their doubts.

[Zhade]

60. "Powell said" - believe the opposite is true. Powell is a lying traitor.

He has no credibility. He's a liar.

CNN also lies. It's propaganda. A joke. Useless.

[Judi Lynn]

61. I think you meant to say "some DISINFO." n/t