Obama campaign vow of public debate on health care fading

[kpete]

Source: McClatchy

Obama campaign vow of public debate on health care fading

By David Lightman and Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — Campaigning for president, Barack Obama said repeatedly that any overhaul of the health care system should be negotiated publicly and televised for all to see. Throughout this year's negotiations, however, the big deals have been struck in secret.

With tax increases and limits on what's covered among the possible ways of offsetting perhaps $1 trillion over a decade in expenses, neither the administration nor Congress is willing to give up its right to do the most sensitive talking in private, as it's always been done.

"It's unrealistic to think every aspect of the negotiations is going to be public," said Senate Assistant Majority Leader Richard Durbin, D-Ill.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, traveling with Obama in L'Aquila, Italy, said Thursday that "this president has demonstrated more transparency than any president." He said that Obama had participated in multiple town-hall meetings with doctors, nurses and providers to discuss revamping health care.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/71584.html

[Vinca]

1. Public, private, what's the difference?

We want single payer, but it's not even being considered. They haven't even acknowledged that "public option" is our fallback position. They'll give us what they deem appropriate as seen from the golden tower with solid gold health benefits.

[RufusTFirefly]

21. Indeed. I support a "private option", not a "public option"

The Democrats unilaterally lowered the bar and have still managed to trip over it. Pathetic.

The great thing about single-payer Medicare for All is that it's easy for everyone to understand once you slog through the doom and gloom propaganda from the Big Insurance lobby.

[maryf]

58. I think you have your terms mixed up..

Private option would be the Insurance Corporations, Single payer would be a public option without the private option!! But to be clear we can say Single Payer is the only option!! :)

[RufusTFirefly]

62. No, I understand what single-payer is

I'm questioning the notion of referring to the public part of the system as simply an option. I support a public system (IOW single-payer) and think it's ok if some people want to supplement their coverage with private. This is the case in some of the civilized countries that have single-payer. The default for the system should be "public." That's why I question referring to it as an option.

[maryf]

65. Gotcha! sorry...

private options for elective vanity stuff would not be unreasonable! thanks for the clarification! and yes, public should be the default! :)

[rurallib]

2. Yet oddly, HC is being debated in every nook and cranny of the US

and these reporters are missing it? Or perhaps there must only be a large spectacle of a debate like the Dem and Repug debates before the primaries last year? I learned much from them, especially with the insightful questions from the press. (Mr. Obama, how were you able to help Bill Ayers when you were only 8 and lived in Hawaii?)

[RBInMaine]

3. MUCH of the committee work can be seen on CSPAN. This is crap.

[No Elephants]

8. Deals are not being struck in

Committee hearings.

Biden negotiates. The WH negotiates. Senators negotiate. But not on TV. Then they announce to us the alleged savings that resulted from these negotiations. http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/07/07/savings-from-hospitals-insurers-pharma-could-top-300-billion/ But, they never seem to announce what they gave the industries in order to get these alleged savings from them.

Beside, is that what you really thought the campaign promise meant? That we could continue watching C Span, as always?

[elocs]

20. No, I'm sure the health care industry altruistically make consessions

from the goodness of their hearts. After all, their business goal must be to keep us sick and in poor health just short of dying so they may squeeze as much money from us as possible to fill their coffers. That so many suffer and die along the way is simply the cost of doing business for them.

[RBInMaine]

Do you really expect people to stop having private conversations as they work through legislation?

Obama has met with MANY people and interests in this. He has done a town hall. More is coming. What do we do, expect them never to have private conversations to work out deals at ANY level of government? Ever hear of exective sessions? Do we eliminate those too? Have you ever held public office? Have you ever been involved in an organization where decisions had to be made? If so, have you ever had private conversations regardng issues? There is plenty of transparency. You are crying wolf needlessly.

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. If those who will decide on policy are not talking publicly about single-payer,

then there is NO debate.

Where's the transparency on WHY nobody is talking single-payer?

[RBInMaine]

71. I will agree single payer should be discussed, but that doesn't mean there is NO transparency on

this issue. You're taking a narrow view.

[Inuca]

45. Whatever the promise meant, I am sure it was not

implied that all senators and congressmen will be on live camera 24/7 so that we can all be privy to every single word they utter, if we so desire.

I do not know if there was such extensive coverage of similar committee markups in the past, I realy don't. Ad I hardly watched any of current hearings though I would have liked to, work and ife in general did not allow. But I did watch a bit of what happened in the HELP Senate committee, heard some of it while driving home (thank you XM radio!). These are unscipted often heated discussions, they are "for real".

[PSPS]

4. "perhaps $1 trillion over a decade in expenses"

With tax increases and limits on what's covered among the possible ways of offsetting perhaps $1 trillion over a decade in expenses, neither the administration nor Congress is willing to give up its right to do the most sensitive talking in private, as it's always been done.

They keep referring to the ten-year expenditure figure so they can use a "big number" in print and "scare" people. But this is a mere $100 billion per year -- absolute chump change in these days of (using the "ten-year trick") $7 trillion pentagon budget, $3 trillion more for Iraq, and $11 trillion for Wall Street bankster crooks.

[Deja Q]

7. you make a lot of sense

+1

[No Elephants]

10. Not only that, but I have not seen much about what has been given to the

insurance, hospital, Pharma, etc. industries in exchange for these alleged savings.

[AlbertCat]

14. BINGO!

Good point to bring up!

[George II]

17. Who are "they"?

[Lorien]

59. The mainstream media, their colleagues on the Hill and their corporate

masters, of course.

[George II]

66. I see...the great, vast rightwing conspiracy, right?

[Lorien]

70. A corporate conspiracy

they don't give a damn about your theology.

[George II]

74. Theology????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ProudDad]

80. Yes, theology...

Believing in capitalism and the altruism of the capitalists is just as crazy as believing in that rediculous set of dusty books of fables and poetry written by various collections of monotheistic desert dwellers.

[George II]

85. But that all has nothing to do with healthcare....theology being the least.

[Lifelong Protester]

25. excellent point and perspective n/m

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. This week's two narratives

Narrative #1 - Obama is breaking campaign promises!
Narrative #2 - The stimulus isn't working!

Regardless of facts, please press these narratives forward.

Thank you.

[humbled_opinion]

47. Yes, isn't wonderful

We know the Pukes will pile on to anything perceived or not and try to stir a shit pot but what infuriates me is the number of Democratas and so called Progressives that pile on too.

[ProudDad]

81. Obama IS breaking campaign promises

or, at best, is dragging his feet.

And yes, the stimulus isn't working for the millions who are becoming unemployed and the soon to be hundreds of millions whose "standard of living", boosted temporary by the Ponzi scheme that is the global Capitalist experiment, will NEVER be the same...

It's working great for the few rich f*cks, your corporate capitalist master and their lackeys in the various national Governments.

[Hutzpa]

6. Another knee jerk hit piece n/t

[RBInMaine]

32. And to think people here are helping FAUX News and Rush attack our guy. SICKENING!

[newtothegame]

9. Shocking. Shocking I tell you! He talks so good! n/t

[No Elephants]

11. As far as I ever knew, people either keep their vows or break them. How does a vow" fade?" Vow

bleach?

[George II]

18. So, when did Obama "VOW"????

[pattmarty]

12. I am going to hold off making my judgment on Obama and his...........

........."administration" until the final healthcare bill comes out. But I have to tell ya, that the more shit that comes out of this administration the more I feel that old "sinking feeling". I think we (all on the "left") have to put the pressure on him that we will stay home in 2010 & 2012 if he doesn't come thru with a REAL reform. We have to become more like Bush's base (fundies, the wealthy, corporate) and let them know we will not "be there" in 2010 and 2012.

[Grinchie]

16. He'd have to pass Unviseal Health Care, and Dismantle the Federal Reserve

in addition to cutting Military spending by 50% before I'd ever consider supporting Obama ever again.

Appointing Michael Taylor to the USDA was the last straw.

[pattmarty]

23. Well, not to argue with you, but If you thought when you voted for him................

.......that he was going to "dismantle the Federal Reserve" and "cutting military spending by 50%", you were dreaming. What I was hoping for when I voted for him was (and I am talking realistically here) was maybe not an LBJ but at least an Eisenhower (I know he was an "R" and I am being facetious here). What it is looking more and more with only six months in, is another Clinton (who I thought was "conservative").

[Grinchie]

49. No, I didn't, But now, thats what he needs to do to get back my support

All he needed to do was give us the Change he promised.

Transparency -- Nope
FISA Immunity -- Nope
Bush held accountable -- Nope
Visitor lists public -- Nope
Fresh team of Progressives? -- Nope
Tired old Clinton Crew -- Yep
Sustainable Ag proponent -- Nope
Monsanto Lawyer appointment -- Yep
Hilary as State -- Yep
Panneta as CIA -- Yep
Wafflefry? -- Yep
Not to mention Geithner and Summers.

Substantial Equivalence was a gift from Michael Taylor. This is the most evil time bomb ticking in the USDA and most people don't even know what it means or how it is being used.

[Zhade]

78. Indeed. I'm tired of him breaking his promises and will not vote for him again.

I'll likely be staying home. Fuck any system so broken that I'm forced to reward liars.

[grahamhgreen]

51. I'm waiting for the HC bill. Perhaps foolishly....

[Grinchie]

56. The Safety of our food supply should be the concern for everyone

As it is the one thing that can affect everybodies health without exception.

Where do we draw the line and say enough is enough? We have monsters running our food industry, and the conditions of the factories and cafos affects the safety of the food, and the people that eat it.

The longer this crime is left to continue, the more people are going to be hurt by it. If nobody is going to stand up and say enough to the continued takeover of our food supply my Corporate rule makers, then what the hell are we doing? We are supporting and administration that has bought into the GMO myth, and is using all of us as guinea pigs.

If Michael Taylor doesn't have the most vile history and legacy, then who will ever fail to be implanted?

We are losing the diversity of our food every day, and I am not exagerating. This is very serious.

[grahamhgreen]

19. I agree. The HC bill will make a definitive statement of his loyalties to the people.

Although his stance on allowing torture to go prosecuted, and indefinite detentions, and destroying Habeus are fairly definitive as well. Not to mention continuing the wars for profit.....

[pattmarty]

26. I agree with you. That is why I say that healthcare is the BIG promise............

........he made to the country. Healthcare was his "crown jewel" and if he doesn't come thru on that ALL the independents will leave in droves, and the "lefties" will stay home from the polls.

[grahamhgreen]

50. I wont just stay home, I will actively campaign to replace every demo-CON with a progressi-dem

I like that... DEMOCON, DEMOCONSERVATIVE...

Progressicrat... progressidem.....

But making the HC bill the tipping point is a great idea.

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. I sense that he doesn't care if we stay home in '12. I think he only plans on one term.

:shrug:

[pattmarty]

27. No, EVERYONE that has been or wants to be President has a huge ego.

He'll run for a second term.

[grahamhgreen]

52. I think he thinks there will be no competition and he will get Republican votes....

But maybe he only wanted to be a one term wonder....

[Mari333]

53. seems like it! nt

[Lorien]

60. I've had that sense too. When questioned about a second term he always

says that the people will decide if he should RUN for a second term. Past Presidents have said that they HOPE that the people will grant them a second term, but they don't simply state that the people will be deciding if they run or not.

[bvar22]

63. Just enouh time for one more "Snash & Grab".....

...by his buddies on Wall Street.

[Javaman]

13. We will be treated to the dog and pony kabuki show...

it will give a sense of public participation when the real deal has already been cut.

The false guise of "public involvement".

Trying to cut out the insurance corps in this mess is the equivalent of trying to stop paying protection money to the mafia.

We need a single payer system but what we will get instead is some bizarre unwieldy pile of red tape bureaucracy that will frustrate even the most patient.

I recall the phrase from the book, Animal Farm, "some animals are more equal than others".

[bvar22]

64. Its worse than that.

The bill that came out of HELP funded the "still not defined Public Option" by cutting Medicare.
The ConservoDems are going to succeed where the Republican have failed for 40 years.
These "Democrats" are going to kill Medicare and hand us an unworkable Public Option that is guaranteed to FAIL but succeed in funneling $Billions to the For Profits.

[George II]

15. The president does not dictate how Congress operates....

....from the article:

"Campaigning for president, Barack Obama said repeatedly that any overhaul of the health care system should be negotiated publicly and televised for all to see."

He did not say it MUST be that way. That was not a "VOW", it is the way he would LIKE it to be (i.e., "should be negotiated publicly")

Amazing how people can twist quotes to prove a false, negative point.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChiciB1]

34. Well, The Fact That Your Name Is GEORGE Must Be The Give-Away...

I must say, I RARELY, almost NEVER tell someone they're "off-base," but mincing words doesn't change the outcome!

IF "repeatedly said" doesn't indicate SOMETHING close to a vow, then maybe INDICATE means nothing either!

Myself? I can't APOLOGIZE ALL the time! Do I want him to succeed? For sure, but this first six months have really thrown me for a loop, and it INDICATES something different from what his campaign INTENDED to say!

And no, I'm NOT going to argue the point with you... I have to run away now... have errands to run!! Just couldn't help myself THIS time. It's not just you, it's so many others here who keep this "interpretation" thing going. Sometimes the hand writing IS ON THE WALL!

BUT, I COULD be wrong!!! There's your out!

[ChiciB1]

35. Just One More Thing... Yes, Congress IS Involved... But What About The

BULLY PULPIT?? THE BUCK STOPS HERE?? THE BIG TENT "thingey?" I'm sweating from the heat an humidity down here in FLORIDA, but feeling SOOOOOOOOOOOOO COLD inside!!!

[TheWatcher]

38. You just can't grasp the magnificient game of Chess they are playing.

It's too complex for us to even comprehend, so grab these Pom-Poms, scream these pre-arranged cheers and SHUT UP.

Or something like that.

[George II]

67. And there's your waffle....

....."indicate SOMETHING close to a vow"......something "CLOSE" to a vow IS NOT A VOW.

I rest my case.

But, as you put it, "it's not just you", it's MANY DUers here who are essentially DINOs, they don't agree with the principles of the Democratic Party or what they represent. All they are is a bunch of self-centered, self-serving people who are never happy unless they get 110% of what they want, 110% of the time.

Sorry, in this world that's not how it works. Hope your errands worked out better.

[ProudDad]

82. From the example of the whimpy, pro-war cowards

that the Democrats have been over the last 30 years...finally voting with bush's wars and unconstitutional bullshit over the last 8 (and STILL!)...

And currently busy sabotaging the best chance at truly Universal health care in this benighted country...

WTF ARE those "principles of the Democratic Party"?

Seriously, what are those "principles"?

From my seat they look like eternal compromise to the benefit of their corporate capitalist masters...

[George II]

84. What drag in pro-war over the last 30 years and busn's wars...

....have to do with healthcare?

If you don't know what the principles of hte Democratic Party are, why are you here?

[ProudDad]

40. Lyndon Johnson dictated how Congress would operate!

He pushed through Medicare and Medicaid in the good ole' fashioned way...

Threats, bribery, sweet talk and ego stroking.

The same way that the vast forces of the 'for profit sick care' industry is using to make sure real Health Care doesn't happen with their hundreds of millions of dollars buying thousands of "lobbyists"...

Unfortunately, this is one area that Obama seems to have little experience with...

It's sad really. Lyndon would have gotten us Single-Payer but the best Obama can do is propose "public option" and allow withdrawal of that proposal to be negotiable...

Very wimpy...

[EndElectoral]

22. Obama continues to dissapoint on this issue.

[seabeckind]

29. I thought we were supposed to have learned from 1994?

Some might have come away from that fiasco thinking that not all parties were involved and not everyone was on board. We needed to be more "bipartisan".

What I say is bulls--t!

What I came away with is more of a military maneuver. If you plan on attacking in a certain direction, at a certain time, with a certain force, and in a certain method, the last people you want informed is the one opposed.

Another point is that speed is of the essence.

While Mr Obama was giving speeches and getting everyone on board the insurance and drug industries were buying pundits and shills. They have watered down the proposal and solidified the defense.

It's as if on June 1st 1944 Eisenhower had stuck a sign in Normandy saying "Invasion Right Here!"

And that has been true of just about EVERY initiative. How's that new credit card thingy working out fer ya? How about that bailout stuff?

And yeah, I got the sweatshirt. Obama wasn't my first choice...seeing Dennis brings a tear to my eye..but I'm on board. I just want the dam boat to start moving.

Oh and BTW, f--k Bayh(D, Lilly).

[nightrain]

30. yeah, disappointing, and not such a surprise... so many campaign

promises going by the wayside.

Most administrations don't want to have the public see the wheeling and dealing that goes on in back rooms and corporate rooms.

We'll probably end up with some watered-down piece of crap. Hope? Dashed.

"Meet the new boss, same (in many regards) as the old boss."

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[natrat]

36. now who said you can tell anyone what and where to say?

[TheWatcher]

37. Chess, Pony, Unicorn, 3 Months, 6 Months, 1 Year, 2 Years, 1 term, 2 Terms

You really need some new Material.

And a different Set of Clown Shoes.

And maybe a new set of Pom-Poms so you can cheer lead the "Football Team" in style.

[emilyg]

39. How much time you want to give him?

[ProudDad]

41. We've already covered his swings and misses elsewhere

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5994957#6000707

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5994957#6000789

[humbled_opinion]

48. You can save that crap sandwich for your Freeper pals... n/t

[nightrain]

54. hardly a Freeper. And not afraid to critique Obama

and Congress.

Apology?

[humbled_opinion]

55. Why don't you address the myriad of

Campaign promises that he has kept?

Why don't you take a look at the massive problems this nation faces and bring the critique to the idiots that got us into the mess we are in?

Why don't you address the need for patience?

Why don't you discuss how Unpartisan the Republicans are and how nothing can truly get done without common ground?

So you go right ahead with your unwavering constant criticism of a man who just recently took charge and who is obviously VISIBLY working on behalf of the people of this country and before you know it enough people who pay little attention to the issues but do listen to the wind blowing will suddenly get us Sarah Palin in the White House and then the end of civilization will be your fault.

[Grinchie]

57. Please feel free to list them. I'm coming up blank.

Honestly, I really have a hard time coming up with any Campaign promises that he's kept, and that's just sad.

Edited to remind you that you selected the word "Myriad"

This is not a discussion about voting for less crazy, which we did out of necessity, but I think that Obama now thinks he can do whatever he please, which is bulldozed a new pad for the new DLC spa in the Oval office.

If I wanted the DLC back in charge after an 8 year hiatus, I would have voted for Clinton, but lo and behold, the gang's all here. The Billy Boy frat club ready to sell more pieces of american labor and industry across the border.

[humbled_opinion]

61. OK Here they are....

Jan. 23 2009 – Obama orders the close of Guantanamo Bay facility
Jan. 29 2009 – Obama signs the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.
Jan. 27 2009 – Administration tells Citigroup bank it is “unacceptable” to pay for a $42 million dollar luxury jet when they have received $45 billion in bailouts from taxpayers
Feb 17, 2009 ... signs into law his $787bn economic stimulus plan.
Feb. 21 2009 – Obama signs a mercury reduction pact with 140 other nations
Feb. 19 2009 – Bans the exception of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars from accounting the deficit
Mar. 9 2009 – Lifts ban on embryonic stem cell research
Mar. 30 2009 – Obama signs the Omnibus Public Lands Management Act of 2009
May 19 2009 – Obama teams up with the auto industry to raise the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards to an average of 35.5 mpg by 2016.
May 22, 2009 – Creates a credit card bill of rights
May 22, 2009 – Tries to curb wasteful spending by the Pentagon on the defense budget by signing the Weapons System Acquisition Reform Act.

- Note: These run the gambit from Restoring America's credibility in the world, Human Rights, Administration Transparancy, Ethics reform, Energy reform, reduction in government waste, Environmental restoration.

Stop concentrating on one or two issues that would become a political quagmire for him and start supporting him or else maybe you would be more comfortable over in Freeper land to jump on the Baseless Bashing of Obama bandwagon.

No wonder Obama's approval ratings are dropping now I know who to blame, Democrats... amazing you would think this country didn't just come off the worst 8 years in its history.

[Grinchie]

68. Ugh. I'm too tired tto list the things he HAS done.

For some reason, those things are about as important to the Earth as a Lei of plastic flowers.

I defer comment until tomorrow and after I sleep on it.

I will warn you, your Myriad is Woefully inadequate.

[nightrain]

69. We have a different outlook. Doesn't mean you need

to make an unfounded personal attack on me. Know who you are talking to before you blast. Check the archives.

Part of being a citizen is being able to critique.

Make your own claims, don't expect me to make yours for you.

No, I give Obama credit when I feel it's due. I think he's handling healthcare in an extremely weak way.

"unwavering constant criticism"? I don't know where you get that from in my post.

[humbled_opinion]

75. Look my bottom line is this

When we are the only side in politics that holds our leaders to account that trait then gives the Republicans a chance to hypnotize the ignorant portions of the electorate and brainwash them to agree to things that are not even in their own self interest let alone the interests of mankind.

This leads to a world that gets destroyed by idiots like the Bush regime. So when we finally get a leader in charge that is, Pragmatic yes, but also understands the issues and speaks intelligently on the issues as well as a man that is following a Progressive agenda then I say we allow him to play the political chess game and I say that we do not give fodder to Republicans to beat him up.

Even now as I type this there are idiots on the right using the economy and recent Polling trends to try and destroy Obama. I for one will not allow that to happen and will support This President unwaveringly.

You are free to do as you wish however, the next time we are lost in the Bushes don't forget to remember the part you played in getting us there.

[nightrain]

76. Interesting....

It's "we" now? Is that an apology?

The fodder that the Repubs have is NOT my doing. I don't imagine myself to be the source of the Repub talking points, nor do I have such grandiose ideas about my importance as to "remember the part I played".

I see scare tactics are in operation. If you admire Obama's style so much, then you might try emulating a less violent communication style.

I don't pretend to support some idea/someone if it's against my own integrity, even if it's on the Dem platform. I don't support getting some bs healthcare bill through just to get it passed. How we do healthcare is far too cumbersome from both the practitioner (me) side and the patient side (also me). I entirely support single payer, and don't see a place for insurance extortion corporations in the provision of care.

Did you see Bill Moyers last night? For me, more demonstration of how utterly corrupt the healthcare insurance corporations are. I will continue to support single payer, not the proposals that are coming out of the House or Senate (so far).

[humbled_opinion]

77. Yes, I apologize,

I do seem to be getting testy lately seeing all the, what I will characterize as lacksluster support for our President.

I do try to keep an open mind about the issues and clearly I have scared myself enough to wrap myself around a support at all costs philosophy.

Anyway whether the issue is the economy, taxes, healthcare, foreign policy or the wars, I would much rather listen to a man than can articulate the situation and the options then be directed by some puppet that cared so little about human life.

I just hope that the majority of the people in this country remain as focused.

[nightrain]

79. apology accepted

I appreciate the self-reflection you seem to have done. Bravo.

Obama is bringing this decreasing support on himself. After making enormously popular campaign promises (having attend one huge event in person myself), when he is so non-committal about healthcare, I start to wonder what the outcome is going to be. I am sorely disappointed in the continuation of the corporate influence and control over decisions in the Obama administration, as well as in Congress.

Obama talks big and I question whether he's delivering. (Nevertheless, on balance, I'd rather have him than Bush.) But, after getting my expectations raised, now it's like a big let down.

Take care.

[scheming daemons]

33. So.... "debate SHOULD be public" is a VOW now?

Obama can't make congress debate in public.

All he can do is say that it SHOULD be public. Which is what he did.


This thread is shit.

[ProudDad]

42. Damning with faint praise...

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, traveling with Obama in L'Aquila, Italy, said Thursday that "this president has demonstrated more transparency than any president."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DebbieCDC]

43. As with so many other campaign "vows"

Dust in the wind

[George II]

73. Considering that Obama made a statement about how he'd LIKE it to go....

....and not a "VOW", I think the OP has exaggerated and misrepresented that statement.

[Vidar]

44. More of that opaque transparency,

[RBInMaine]

72. Obama's campaign statement was largely in regard to how Clinton did not do healthcare via Congress.

Context is missing here. Part of the reason Clinton lost on healthcare was that he drove the process executively, often in closed door meetings, and didn't allow the legislation to formulate through the congressional process from the beginning. Obama has laid out parameters but has allowed congress to do this, which is the real law making body. Therefore, all the official proceedings ARE transparent from beginning to end and can be largely seen on CSPAN and via other media. In addition there are all the town halls and many other forums where this issue is being thoroughly discussed and debated all over the country. Of course there will still be private, off the record, conversations and negotiations as there will be in ANY legislative process at ANY level of government.

[ProudDad]

83. I love it when you folks try "revisionist history"

The MAIN reason Clinton lost on health care is because they let the FOR PROFIT insurance corporations and drug companies drive the process (behind closed doors). And then the Congress did what they're supposed to do, paid to do...shitcan health care again...

Just as Obama is doing now (behind closed doors)...

That's why we're fucked again this time too!

And where's the discussion of the only system that would WORK??? HR676 - Single-Payer???