Freed Army deserter says he has no regrets

[sabra]

Source: SD Union-Tribune

SAN DIEGO — Robin Long, an Army private court-martialed for desertion after he refused to fight in Iraq, said Friday that he has no regrets, even after spending the past year in the brig at the Miramar Marine Corps Air Station.

“I wouldn't do anything differently,” he said at a morning news conference outside the Veterans Museum and Memorial Center in Balboa Park.

Wearing both an Army camouflage hat and a T-shirt decorated with a large peace symbol, Long said his imprisonment was “the hardest thing I've ever had to do,” largely because it kept him away from his common-law wife and 3-year-old son in Canada.

“But I had to do what I felt was right.”

Long, 25, originally from Boise, Idaho, enlisted in 2003. He said he initially supported the war and was ready to fight, but grew convinced that it was “illegal and immoral.”

Read more: http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jul/10/bn10long123257/?military&zIndex=129988

[ThirdWorldJohn]

1. it was “illegal and immoral.”

So True.

[midnight]

2. What you said. Now let's bring them home.

[pasto76]

3. may have been a private, but seems to have the integrity of an NCO

good for him. If you truly beleive it, stand by it.

[havocmom]

8. Seems to have more integrity than a former CIC

He faced the consequences of his actions. bush just had the clean up crew take care of the annoying details of HIS desertion.

[frylock]

4. ..

:patriot:

[Brooklyns_Finest]

5. Cowards like that should lose their citizenship

If he was against war he should have never enlisted. Before I was deployed to Iraq in 2003 we had a few objectors in our company. All of them made me sick. How do you party, train, eat, with your fellow Marines for 4 years but when it is time to fight you back out?

Anyone who supports this kind of disgraceful act is as pathetic as the ex soldier.

[PassingFair]

6. I have one word for you:

NUREMBURG...

The only thing more disgraceful than
a deserter is a soldier that follows
unethical and immoral orders, or
participates in an unnecessary, immoral,
and illegal war.

[Mari333]

11. amen! nt

[HOLOS]

41. PassingFair, Thank You for this TRUTH

only War Criminals invade a country of innocent human beings.....raping their children and pillaging their resources (oil).

Beautiful, highly educated, wonderful people who did absolutely nothing to us...US war criminals destroyed their cities and fields w/ chemical bombs w/ lethal effects that last 100,00+ years, destroyed their ancient history, artifacts, museums and libraries... as the historically revered true " Cradle of our Civilization".

Millions of now poor, shattered Iraqi grandmothers, fathers, women and children are reduced to starving animals living in wretched refugee camps in the boiling desert...thanks to Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Tenet!!!

An entire generation of American soldier is also completely soul shattered - feeling the 24/7 searing guilt of the effects they witnessed from their own personal vicious, vile abuses of power... that drugs and alcohol cannot now mask...only rampant self - suicide relieve.

WHERE ARE THE TRIALS?!?!!!! #@$!!^%&*!!!

[Thothmes]

48. Sort like we did in Vietnam.

I asked that question about LBJ a couple of decades ago. No one seemed interested.

[Thothmes]

47. So those millions of Americans that served

in Korea and Vietnam should be tried for war crimes. What about the Presidents that sent them there.

[frylock]

10. tough shit

[Cha]

13. The article said he wasn't against it

at first..then he got smart and realized wtf bush and cheney did and got out.

Good for him.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

17. Comical

You really have to be in the military to understand the kind of soldier we are talking about here. More than likely, it had nothing to do with what he deems an "illegal war". He was probably too scared to live up to his committment when the orders came to deploy. I know this because I know the type. They are just in it for the pay check. When their country ask them live up to thier part of the bargain, they run away and make excuses. When we were deployed (2nd battalion 25th Marines March 2003) I think we left 3 guys behind for these same reasons. I knew all of them fools personally. Cowards, all of them.

As far as comparing US soldiers fighting in Iraq to Nazi soldiers, well, sir, that is pure crazy talk.

[Cha]

18. I don't agree..but

thank you for your service.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

21. For A lot of people

The military is just a pay check. Now I have no problem with that. It only becomes a problem when people don't live up to their commitments. I joined because I grew up watching GI Joe and just love doing hard corp shit.

As far as what my specific unit did in Iraq? Well, most of my time was spent playing cards and watching bootlegged porn from Kuwait. I was lucky enough to never have to shoot my weapon--even though I was infantry. The US really dropped the ball when they let the Iraqi army disband thus creating the insurgency. Before this, at least where I was based, the people really appreciated us being there. I was based in the South, I can't speak for what was happening in Baghdad or Fulujah.

This topic always pisses me off, because it reminds me of a "friend" who abandoned me because he was too scared to deploy with us.

[Mari333]

26. and I have a nephew who went with special forces

he spent many days picking up the pieces of his friends bodies near Mosul in the heavy fighting and trying to match body parts. Hes pretty f*cked up now. real f*cked up. he drinks a lot.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

27. Cost of being a soldier

I don't want to seem insensitive, but cops see messed up things every day. Should cops just stop investigating murders and child rapist?

I am a big advocate for troops. I work for the Social Security Aministration. I am the wounded warrior representative for our office. I am also on the veterans affairs committee in our region. I know how to seperate the needs of the troops vs the accomplishment of the mission (I know I am seeting myself up with that).

I hope your newphew gets better!

[Mari333]

28. well hugs to you

:hug:
from a mom.

[IsItJustMe]

43. Well then, you must be god. Hard for me to understand my own motivations many times on a given

situation, let alone understanding someone elses. That is a hell of a power you have there. It must be true of course, because you said so.

Give me a break.

[Zhade]

52. I'm from a military family, and this man is a hero.

NT!

[ProudDad]

61. And you, sir, are engaging in the same sort of

insane babbling that perpetuates the madness of war...

I got smart after spending a year in the Navy back when Lyndon was beginning to shovel cannon-fodder in the way of the patriots in Vietnam defending their own country from the USAmerikan horde. I realized the bullshit that was war and got the hell out of there.

But thanks for your post. It aptly demonstrates the kind of bizarre thought process that makes it SO easy for your corporate capitalist masters to warp immature children into fleshy machines fight their wars for them.

------------------------------------------------------

War is a Racket...

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

[saigon68]

68. I love the lifer mentality jack-asses who rave on about Killing

Or being part of "The Hard Corps."

I am a VSO and I will tell you that PTSD and its associated behaviors have caused more suicides in my generation, than were killed in 16 years of the Nam 1959-1975

So let The Chimp's little butt boys rave on how NOBLE this descent into madness is for the about to be created Gold Star Mothers.

"BRING EM ON" shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE

[xocet]

14. Illegal War - Illegal Orders....

It is too bad that you did not have the guts to stand up against the orders to go. Isn't participation in an illegal war of aggression a crime? (Remember that following orders is not an excuse.) No one wants to say it this way, but you should have stood up and stayed home. Frankly, everyone should have, but that is not what happened - look at all the death, displacement and destruction that resulted.

I support the troops and don't want them to be killed, but I also never wanted the innocent Iraqis that have died to die. I don't support illegal war as you do. It is too bad that you do: go join free republic - they would like you and your bravado. It is too bad that some people are too ignorant to understand that war means a lot of innocent people are going to be killed.

Do you like pizza? If you do, please give the delivery driver a tip.

[Big_Mike]

29. Pardon me, but the illegal war meme is getting a little long in the tooth

We went into Iraq in 1990 with concurrence of the UN via Resolution 678 in 1990. It has never been rescinded. Under the terms of the surrender at the end of Desert Storm, we could resume hostilities if certain conditions were not met. Those conditions were violated many times, but we never restarted hostilities, although we had legal justification to do so at essentially any time.

For OIF, the Congress of the United States AUTHORIZED the President to commit military forces to hostilities. That, BTW, is how you send our forces into harm's way.

Was it the right thing to do? Were people misled? WMD? Argue about it to your heart's content. But do not say it was illegal. The President requested authorization and Congress granted it. That ends it.

Perhaps you wish to argue the "No war without U.N. authorization" point. Argue away. In my reading of the Constitution, they have no jurisdiction over our nation. And we are, at least at this point, still organized under the Constitution.

Edited for poor spelling and grammar.

And edited again because I forgot what I was going to say in the first place - he abandoned his fellow soldiers but did his jail time and is out now. He did exhibit moral courage for taking his stand, if not intelligence for enlisting with mental reservations (the oath states "...I take this oath freely and without mental reservations..."). I vehemently disagree with the way you performed your service, but I wish you good luck, Mr. Long, should you ever see this.

[LynnTheDem]

32. You are absolutely incorrect.

The bush invasion against the people of Iraq was, in fact, ILLEGAL.

The rightwingnuttery tried hard to get that "Resolution 678" bullshit to fly...finally even George Dubya Bush gave up.

You really should, too.

[Joe Chi Minh]

38. You should have added, "Little Mike". I love the way these guys portray themselves as

heroes. "Big Mike"! "Brooklyn's Finest"! You're only as "Big" and "Fine" on here as the intelligence/wisdom you show. Now that artist-war protester who tried to bundle Robert McNamara over the railings of the Martha's Vineyard ferry, during the Vietnam war, that was one big, fine guy - and a hero. Flower Power it wasn't.

[Big_Mike]

45. Oh, my so astute commenter

Big refers physically -- 6'7" and about 400 pounds. Somehow Tall_and_Fat_Mike doesn't screen so well.

AFA service is concerned: I retired from military service in 1995. Got the DD214 and the blue Armed Forces ID card to prove it.

What I'm saying is that sending the troops was LEGAL. I don't argue that this was a just war, as I don't really think it qualifies. But it was certainly legal. AFA casus belli is concerned, I always thought that the attempted assassination of Bush 41 was enough to justify restarting hostilities.

But unless you can climb into the Way Back Machine and revoke Congressional approval, it was legal.

[Joe Chi Minh]

49. Well, you know, your physical stature isn't that relevant on a forum, you know.

I am not saying we are not all vain in some degree, but if you were 4'7", would you call yourself, Little Mike"?

"I don't argue that this was a just war, as I don't really think it qualifies."
"AFA casus belli is concerned, I always thought that the attempted assassination of Bush 41 was enough to justify restarting hostilities."

It seems odd that you should consider an unjust war to be consonant with a bona fide casus belli.

As for Congressional approval, Hitler had his own judges, and a whole personalised panoply of state. It was not held by the International Military Tribunal of war criminals at Nuremberg to be an acceptable plea in mitigation, however. Any more than that guy admitting he shot the sheriff, but pleading that he didn't shoot his deputy, in the Bob Marley song.

Of course, it has always been the soldier's lot to "do or die", and "not to question why"? But I find it objectionable when people who have a measure of academic education and intellectual self-confidence, argue on a public forum in favour of an imperial duty to smash an innocent county to smithereens, killing millions of innocent people, admittedly brown-skinned, and driving millions of them more into exile. (What if it had been France? Would that have been OK?) It was an invasion, incidentally, whatever your grounds for its justification, started on mendacious grounds. The Bush regime had a record of ignoring expert advice which didn't fit in with its "New American Century" plans.

Anyway, why should Iraq have been smashed and all those millions murdered and exiled for an act of an evil dictator, who had actually been imposed on them by the US, itself! The CIA selected Saddam Hussein, groomed him, effectively installed him, and even gave him a list of his enemies for him to murder. There's a great photo of Rummy with him, when the US was his friend. With that kind of complacency about visiting murder and mayhem on so many innocent people on such specious grounds, you may find St Peter doesn't want to know you. And here you are touting it, championing it.

[sabrina 1]

60. Big Mike, I'm sorry, but sending the troops was not legal

I know that the troops for the most part, did not realize that. I know of one eg, who went willingly to Iraq, believing that country to be a major threat to the US. But, over time he learned the truth and refused to return when he was ordered to do so for a second deployment. No one could call this man a coward. He was a ten year veteran of the military, from a military family, with many honors to his name.

He never earned an honor more, imo, than when he stood up and refused to follow those orders once he knew they were illegal. He served time also but it was no he who should have served any time, it is those who lied this country into war.

This was an illegal war. There is hardly a legal expert anywhere on International Affairs who disagrees and those who sent the troops over there, know it and knew it themselves. That is why they made up the lies they did about 'mushroom clouds' and 'imminent threats' and lied about Saddam being in league with radical extremist Muslims when the truth is they were his mortal enemies.

Maybe it's better for those who went there to believe it was legal, I don't know, but imo, the truth only hurts those who have a vested interested in hiding it.

[Zhade]

54. The truth gets tiresome? Too fucking bad.

NT!

[sabrina 1]

57. You are wrong and your attempting to defend

the illegal war by bringing up yet again, those resolutions, will not change that. The Resolutions made it clear that no country who signed them could act alone without the approval of the Security Council.

Bush was forced to recognize that eventually, and the case did go, very reluctantly, before the UNSC. But, they, the warmongering neocons were impatient, and when it looked like the SC might not go along with their WMD argument, they did not wait for a decision and used the false claim that the US was in 'imminent danger' from Iraq, the only other legitimate way to go to war without waiting for the findings of the UNSC.

Since the US was never, ever in danger from Iraq, since there were no WMDS and most intelligent people already knew they were lying, this war is a classic case, according to most International Legal scholars, of a country going rogue, of a war based on lies, and therefore illegal.

This is an old and long refuted argument. The documentation is available all over the place, from what was in the Resolutions you mention to the lies about WMDS.

They should all be tried, preferably by an International tribunal since the US doesnt' seem to have the courage to take its own criminals to task.

[readmoreoften]

15. And jingoistic cowards like you should GET YOUR ASS TO IRAQ AND AFPAK NOW.

I'm sick of scumbags relying on the bad decisions and poverty of 18 year olds to keep them interred in a pointless wars for profit for 8 years of their lives. I've seen the damage: the PTSD, the brain damage, the death, the physical destruction of the troops and I've seen their HATRED of this war and UTTER DISGUST of people like you. Every war ends with either a win or the troops ending it by way of strike. They want this war to end. Some of them are COURAGEOUS enough to stand up and risk themselves to save the lives of other Americans and other innocent Afghans, Iraqis, and Pakistanis.

The US military is taking just about anyone right now, so long as they're not gay. So get your happy ass over there. A 60 year old just re-enlisted (well, the troops under him fragged him, so there's an opening.) They're guys out there with flat-feet, fighting with gunshot wounds, PTSD, and major injuries. There are plenty of folks in the FOBs who don't even need to be physically fit. So you've got no excuse. Get over there.

Get your hypocritical ass over there NOW.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

19. Been there done that

1st Platoon 1st squad leader. Fox Company 2nd Battalion 25th Marines. Attached to the 1st Marine Divsion from March 8th 2003 to August 22 2003 (Marine deployments are shorter). I have no complainst at all. My time in Iraq (Nasiriyah)was some of the best in my life. I did my 8 years in the Corps and got out. If I have a son, I will encourage him to join. I have 2 newphews and I tell them my Marines stories every chance I get.

Some of us actually love the life!

[xocet]

23. Yes...

I was only doing what I was told. That has been heard before.

Who needs the Nazi comparison anymore, though? We have YOU as the new example. Brooklyn's_"Finest" just loves the life! (Note that there is a much more current instance of an illegal war of aggression on the books.)

Thanks a whole fucking lot for going along to get along. Whether you like it or not, the innocent people who have died as a result of this catastrophe are our common heritage now. As I said, thanks a whole fucking lot.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

24. Your welcome, sweetie (eom)

[Rage for Order]

25. LOL

That poster is a piece of work. Dare I say, he may even be referred to as something that rhymes with "rooshbag"!

:rofl:

Wait a minute. What am I doing talking to you, a modern day nazi, on an internet message board? :hi:

[Lagomorph]

67. I see Iraq vets are starting to get the Vietnam vet treatment.

I, for one, thank you for your service and welcome you home. You are entitled to your opinion, you sure as hell earned it, as opposed to just being yet another idealist.

[Zhade]

53. Chickenhawk motherfuckers should go get shot for lies instead of enjoying the safety of their chairs

The man in the OP is the real hero, not these cowardly little hypocrites that pretend to be all hard.

[alfredo]

30. Enlisted in 1965, volunteered for Nam, got sent to a station on top of

a volcano overlooking the Red Sea. Did my four years. Got out because I knew I would end up in the brig. I was getting more and more bitter and violent. I didn't like what it was doing to me. I couldn't commit 100% to the mission. the military was better without me.

Would you want the Marine at your side to be consumed with doubt, not totally committed to the mission? It's better for all that he left.

[LynnTheDem]

31. What part of ILLEGAL WAR did you not understand?

Or should all soldiers be good Germans?

My husband's entire 4th ID unit were "objectors", as they knew this was all total ILLEGAL bullshit.

Obviously, you still don't realize that wee fact.

That truly is pathetic.

[Tim01]

35. "initially supported the war and was ready to fight"

He went to prison and did his time. He made his point.

Would you be a coward for refusing to take part in war crimes?

[Joe Chi Minh]

39. My step-father fought in the artillery in WWII and always said that he thought

the bravest men were the conscientious objectors. And that was as just a war you could think of.

None are completely just, of course. Ultimately it was the rivalry between the agents of British and German imperialism leading up to WWI that led to WWII.

[pasto76]

37. because the partying, training et al did not include follwoign immoral orders

which, as you seem to espouse, your Marine training should have you understanding.

Us Army Dogs get that instruction in the first few days of basic - it is your DUTY to refuse to follow unlawful or immoral oders. Tellin me the Army is one up on the Marines in this area?

[IsItJustMe]

42. I guess one mans coward is another man's hero. The man has integrity and a conscience. He is a

hero in any sense of the word in my book. Any person who is willing to go against the conventions and do the right thing according to his conscience regardless of the consequences has true character.

It's easy to be a flag waver and scream USA USA when everybody else around you is doing it.

[Zhade]

51. He is a true hero. He's the kind of person that makes me proud as an American.

Three cheers for this hero!

[sabrina 1]

58. It wasn't time to fight, that's why what this soldier

was the right thing to do. The war was illegal, it was based on lies, and no soldier is committed to follow illegal orders. That is not what they sign up to do.

The only legitimate reason for the US to go to war is in self defense. Iraq was never a threat to this country although many in the military may not have known that in the beginning, as was the case with this soldier. But as soon as it becomes clear that the orders are illegal, a soldier is not longer obligated to follow them.

[JonLP24]

64. Lose citizenship?

If you are born in America you're citizen and most likely always will be even if you murder someone. As far as I know this deserter isn't a murderer and ever if he was he'd still be a citizen. If we take his citizenship, where do we deport him?

Everyone has different reasons for not going and there all not the same as the people you know.

In fact when I was deployed I knew a guy who deserted during leave over half way through our deployment. All he had to do was stick it out for 4 or 5 more months. But there was a combination of constant bullying from other soldiers(being in the Army was just like being in high school for me) as well as dealing with an unfaithful significant other. Even his team leader told him the best time to go AWOL is during leave because they wont look for you. Hell, he may have been a coward deep inside but considering with what he was dealing with I didn't blame him. In fact I have no idea whatever happened to him, I click on deserter threads to see if it was him but so for, nothing. But whenever I do click on one of these threads there is always one attacking him/her personally.

It may not be you but I'm sure some of these posters wish we could go back to the good 'ol days of the civil war and whip out the firing squad for these deserters.

[quakerboy]

65. Finest?

I have doubts. I cant let this folly pass, but I also don't want to engage in a fruitless fight. I will limit myself to one comment, and you can return whatever, if anything, you see fit.

I doubt you will ever understand the caliber of this man. But when you have matured, perhaps you may. Should that day come, I feel for you, because your words will come back to you in a way far greater than anything I could say now.

[gratuitous]

7. Outstanding

Good for you, Mr. Long. May there be thousands who will similarly find the courage not to take up arms on behalf of an illegal and immoral cause.

[Solly Mack]

9. K&R

[Mari333]

12. a hero nt

[readmoreoften]

16. I welcome him home from jail, a hero.

It takes an immense amount of courage to do the right thing in that situation, especially at such a young age.

[hack89]

20. Neither does the army - I love a happy ending. nt

[Mari333]

22. spraying Testosterone B Gone

phew

[SKKY]

33. I'm going with Brooklyns_Finest on this one...

...we all know, by signing the contract and taking the oath, what may be asked of us. If each individual hasn't reconciled that with themselves, the should reconsider taking the oath. I am against the war in Iraq as much as anyone on this board, but that doesn't preclude me from fulfilling my obligation to the Navy, my command, or my shipmates. That, to me, is a much greater moral dilemma.

[Joe Chi Minh]

40. My condolences.

[Zhade]

55. The man referred to in the OP is the true hero.

NT!

[ProudDad]

63. Give me a break!

The military takes immature children and warps them into clinically insane, cold-blooded killing machines.

Thanks to the fact that the human brain's judgment centers aren't formed until age 25 the military is easily able to deform their unformed brains into bizarre irrational beings that can fight their master's wars for them.

------------------------------------

War is a Racket

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

[UndertheOcean]

34. What a hero , chose Jail instead of being a babykiller.

~Salute~

[Rage for Order]

46. Just out of curiousity...

Which members of the armed forces are the baby killers? Is every service member a baby killer, or only those in Iraq & Afghanistan?

You do realize that you funded the baby killers with your tax dollars, don't you? That makes you equally culpable for murder, douchebag.

:eyes:

[UndertheOcean]

70. All of them are babykillers , The whole army needs to be desolved

It is an institution that only exists to murder people.

I have no say in how the gov. spends my tax dollars , but the Army right now is a volunteers force.

[Thothmes]

73. Following that logic

you voted for the represntatives, senators and the presidents that sent them to war. You paid the taxes that finance those wars, Ergo you are equally culpable of murder.

[proteus_lives]

62. So all members of the US Armed Forces are babykillers?

Think about it for a minute. Is the Air Force radar operator in Alaska a babykiller? Is the submarine pilot in the Indian Ocean a babykiller? Is the Marine DI on Parris Island a babykiller? Is the jeep mechanic in Germany a babykiller? What about our Vets? Are they all babykillers?

Pull your head from your ass.

[provis99]

66. well, the whole point of the military is to kill people. So why get so defensive?

Colin Powell himself said during the 1990 war that the military "kills people and smashes things". So babykilling is just part of the job, not need to get all defensive and upset.

[proteus_lives]

69. Wow.

The stupid comments just keep on coming.

[UndertheOcean]

71. Yay , sure . I thought it was common knowledge.

[Agony]

36. Mr Long, I thank you for your service. I say that with NO sarcasm, none.

A person brave enough to follow his own conscience... and accept the consequences.

[Strelnikov_]

44. ..

[Zhade]

56. Awesome photo. Another hero.

NT!

[Zhade]

50. Now this is what heroism looks like.

NT!

[UndertheOcean]

72. +1

[ProudDad]

59. Kudos to a REAL American Hero!!!

We need more of this kind of hero and less of the mindless, jingoist, glory-mongering fawning about those who allows themselves to be conned into perpetuating the madness.

Piss on ALL FLAGS!