Same-Sex Public School Limits to Be Eased

[Khephra]

WASHINGTON -- Public schools are about to get broad new freedom to teach boys and girls separately, perhaps the biggest shakeup to coed classrooms in three decades.

The Education Department plans to change its enforcement of Title IX, the landmark anti-discrimination law, to make it easier for districts to create single-sex classes and schools. The move would give local school leaders discretion to expand choices for parents, whether that means a math class, a grade level or an entire school designed for one gender.

U.S. research on single-sex schooling is limited, but advocates say it shows better student achievement and attendance and fewer discipline problems. Critics say there is no clear evidence, and that single-sex learning doesn't get students ready for an integrated world.

At least 91 of 91,000 public schools offer a form of same-sex education now, including The Philadelphia High School for Girls, which sends almost all of its graduates to college.

more.............

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-same-sex-schools,0,2770299.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[bobbieinok]

1. 1st step to segregate girls and give them 'dumbed down' education?

...

[RC]

4. Yeah, my thought also.

It's about time we put these criminals into some same sex prisons.

[salin]

5. actually there were some studies

that said that in the middle and high school years, especially in science and math instruction, that many girls thrive and do better instructionally (how much they learn) in same-sex settings. I am not sure but the study may have been included with some work from the Association of Univeristy Women (?not sure if that is the correct title). If I recall it was very reputable work. I don't know that they were making the case for same-sex schools but that some same sex instruction in classes was perhaps worth implementing.

[Exultant Democracy]

13. In France the number of female and male scientists are virtually equal

It isn't about the classrooms, it is about the culture.

[salin]

16. on a societal level

you would be correct.

On a study of educational instructional impact on American students in same-gender vs heterogeneous classes, it isn't quite relevant.

[Exultant Democracy]

21. well if the problem is one with society as a whole

I don't think that segregating classrooms is a good solution. When these kids grow up they will need to work in a sexually integrated world.

I think it would be a lot more effective for teachers to present a balanced view of history that gives little girls hero's and role models in the sciences.

[salin]

22. arguing idea

vs. study. I just reported on findings. Not whether or not it sounded like a better idea. The report is discussed below in the post by Muriel. Has the correct title and publishing organization.

[murielm99]

14. A study was done at Illinois Math and Science Academy in the nineties.

It was done by the Sadkers, who have done many studies on gender equity in public education. In this study, the Sadkers took a class of calculus based physics students and separated them by gender. The girls learned cooperatively, and they boys learned in a more competitive way.

The AAUW study is called How Schools Shortchange Girls.

There have been many other studies, done, but the Sadkers did the groundbreaking work. Read their book called Failing at Fairness: How American Schools Shortchange Girls.

Myra Sadker has died, but her husband is continuing their work.

I used many studies, and some personal observation to do a graduate paper on gender equity in public schools, but my focus was on gifted females. I had two children attend IMSA in the nineties, on male and one female. Their life experiences have been vastly different, even though they have similar intelligence and interests.

While gifted children face many obstacles, gifted girls have it far worse. My own daughter and her friends at IMSA told me many war stories. My husband and I also spent years comforting, protecting and fighting for our gifted daughters. Female Mensans can tell some war stories, too.

Do you know how Title IX got started? A woman was denied full professorhip, because her department said she was "too strong for a woman!" Now, we seem to use it mainly for equity in sports programs.

I have no problem with seperate classes for boys and girls, as long as we make sure they are not dumbed down.

Sorry if this rambled. It is a particular enthusiasm of mine. I would be glad to share some of my other resources, with anyone who is interested.

[salin]

17. Thankyou murielm99 ...

exactly what I recalled reading... but was not as familiar. Thanks for sharing the information and perspectives.

[Zero Gravitas]

20. same sex classes

Its seems to me that may well be some benefit to same sex education esp in middle/high schools (less distraction for the students.) Obviously the specter of "separate but equal" arises when this topic is brought up and it is a legitimate concern IMO. So maybe the idea of same -sex classes is the way to go. Males & females attend the same school and receive instruction from the same teachers but some (or all) classes are segregated by sex. Students can still socialize outside of class but it may well lead to a more serious in-class atmosphere.

[kainah]

25. I went to a women's college

precisely because I wanted to get away from not only gender bias in classrooms -- many studies have documented that males get more attention from teachers -- but also because I just wanted out of the culture where classrooms were infused with games of sexuality. I loved my education and I think good arguments can be made that separate classrooms can be a real bonus.

Of course, that's not to say that they couldn't be used for equally rotten purposes. I'd have to see specifics of a proposal before I'd endorse it. But I think it's a shame that so few single sex colleges remain. At that level, at least, it should be an available choice.

[w4rma]

26. This is the first step along the slippery slope.

First, the segrigation.
Second, the change in curriculum.
Third, the disparity in funding.

[WildWorldOfMan]

12. Maybe if you read the last sentence of that post

you might notice that a larger percentage of girls go on to college from an all girl school. Facts of Life.

[wickerwoman]

15. Whoops, misread...

but still, I don't think the pilot school is representative of a larger implementation of the plan. What is the socio-economic background of these girls and what is the funding like for the school? How were they selected- is it a school for girls who are already streamed as "gifted" in maths and science?

[DennisReveni]

2. Good

I was watching the Tavis Smiley State of the Black Family( Strengthening the Black Family), one of the speakers mentioned that in the Us boys are put in special ed more often than girls because the majority of teachers are white females. In Europe the majority of teachers are male and more girls go into special ed. The claim was that because boys are more active they need peer classes.

[saltpoint]

3. Do I have this right --

-- same-sex marriage is bad & same-sex schooling is good?

How about same-sex lacrosse? Are there prohibitions against that?

[rocktivity]

6. I'd like to know more about the Philly HS for Girls

What is the student-teacher ratio? What kind of a budget do they have? What kind of resources? And how well do they DO in college?

:headbang:
rocknation

[salin]

18. I believe that at least it used to be a magnet school

and that students may have had to test or be identified to attend (e.g., a school for talented young women.) If this is the case one can't compare results from this school to those of all Philly schools - as there is some selection bias (e.g., the 'sample of students' is not the same... identified gifted and talented compared to the entire general public school population.)

[recidivist]

7. No harm in trying it.

We have got some serious problems in American education, and we ought to be prepared to experiment. No one is suggesting that we're going to flip a switch and suddenly put everyone into same-sex classrooms. I see no harm in scattered voluntary experiments along these lines. If same-sex education benefits some students, fine.

[mike1963]

8. Are 'gym' classes co-ed these days? They weren't back in the 60s in

my school - Tuesdays were swim days, we all skinny dipped. (breathing hard at the memory) :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike1963]

10. Rubbers help you swim faster? Wow, wish I'd known that 40 years ago!

We didn't have any aids, but we did have aides...
:eyes:

[kayell]

19. Hunh? Rubbers to protect against the transmission of AIDS through

swimming together in clorinated pool water?? Could you please explain exactly what the dangers and mechanism are in that situation?

"We have too much aids in school today" Hunh? Please explain.

[kayell]

11. Single sex classrooms weren't especially good for my achievement levels

back in the early '70s when I was refused permission for shop and drafting classes, because the presence of a female would distract the boys taking the class.

Of course that decision was by the same guidance counselor who called me down to discuss my PSAT scores.

Helpful Counselor: These are really great scores. I hope you are considering college.

Young kayell (with stars and the future bright in her eyes): Indeed I am. I'd like to be an architect!

Not so helpful counselor: Well, we all do have to be realistic about what we can achieve. *long pause* But these are really great scores. 99th percentile in both tests. You will make someone a Wonderful executive SECRETARY!

Young kayell (not so starry eyed): Ummmmmm
--------------

Seperate but Equal seems to be cropping up a lot lately. If I were a minority of some sort, I might be damn paranoid....

[LifeDuringWartime]

23. you are

minority does not necessarily mean fewer numbers... it just refers to the group that is not in control. unfortunately, women are a minority.

[kayell]

28. I know, I was being a little sarcastic

I'm female and gay. (not to mention being an endangered species - a southern leftist!)

[dawn]

24. I'd die if I was a teenager and had to go to an all-girls school.

I wouldn't even want to work in an all-female office. Too much estrogen! :)

Also, girls can be so catty and cliquish sometimes. We need guys around to balance things out!

[Barkley]

27. I noticed when girls aren't around boys don't act macho!

I tutor high school students and its much easier
to teach males in a all-male setting-- less distractions.

There are less discipline problems too.

I find teen males often try to impress teen females not with
their intellect but how much they can act out or be a macho tough guy.

I also agree with earliers posting about cultivating leadership: I can see how all female settings contributes to female leadership.

[many a good man]

29. I'm For It

As one who has experienced both, I have to admit I think same sex schools are a great idea, at least for high school. I attended a boys only high school and later taught in coed public high schools and middle schools. I think adolescence is a very difficult period for most and the boy-girl thing distracts too much from learning.

In my boys-only school, students could relax, be themselves, and just learn. In the coed school I could see the enormous pressure to put forward the right image, to be attractive, and assert one's own sexuality. Both boys and girls intentionally dumbed themselves down or acted out to appear more cool to the opposite sex. Boys who may be shy are ridiculed or accused of being "gay" if they don't act a certain way. Smart girls keep quiet so they won't frighten potential suitors. Its really sad. Unattractive boys and girls suffer immense humiliation. Education suffers.

I also think that not having girls around made me much more appreciative and respectful of women. Being around girls after school was a special treat (admission: I don't have any sisters!).

All the studies that have been done have shown it to be especially beneficial to girls. I'm not worried about "separate and unequal", at least in areas where there are lots of Democrats! There probably should be guidelines to assure equal treatment, but all in all I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.