Venezuela opposition takes hope from Haiti developments

[gulfcoastliberal]

I found some interesting information in this article:

*cut*

But many analysts say that despite the impressive street protests in Caracas and other cities in recent days, the opposition is much weaker than it was before last year's strike.

The walkout was spearheaded by a shutdown in the state-owned oil monopoly, PDVSA, which caused a complete stoppage in the nation's oil production and exports for two months, nearly bankrupting the government.

Such a complete stoppage was possible because PDVSA's executives and technicians were strongly loyal to the opposition. After breaking the strike, however, Chavez fired about 18,000 of the company's 40,000 employees -- including most of its executives and technicians -- replacing them by hiring foreign professionals.

"PDVSA is sufficiently inoculated to avoid a repetition of anything like the strike last year," said Mazhar al-Shereidah, director of Petroanalysis, an oil-industry consulting firm in Caracas. "There could be sabotage of some production installation, a terrorist attack, but I can tell you categorically that the government now has complete control of the company, and the opposition no longer can use it as a political weapon."

*cut*

Read the entire story, it's informative:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/04/MNGHG5E0V11.DTL

[bemildred]

1. The golpistas are completely fucked, the sooner they get used

to it, the better their lives are going to be. Uncle Sugar is in
no position to force anything in Venezuela. All that is occurring
now is that this issue works very well for Chavez because of past
blunders by Noriega and Reich, and it is timely because of the
present blunder by Noriega and Reich in Haiti, and Chavez is
exploiting it to strengthen his position and cramp Uncle Sugar's
style. You may be sure that if Chavez is twisting the nose of
Shrub and his minions it is because he knows he can get away with
it.

I'm starting to wonder how soon we will see the triumphant return
of Aristide to Haiti.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

2. I get what you're saying.

But remember a wounded beast can still be very aggressive and dangerous. I hope their little house of cards collapses.

[bemildred]

6. To be sure. Constant vigilance is required. nt

[Bandit]

3. Wasn't it Colin Powell that said the price of a single bullet is cheap.

Or something to that effect.

[Aidoneus]

4. I think he was speaking of Saddam Husayn..

maybe he wasn't, now that I think about it.. forget what that was about.

that's about the only way they can take out Chavez, he having resisted as yet every other attempt from the bag of tricks.

[bemildred]

5. There is always that, but do you think it has not

been tried by now? There is always the chance that the
right guy is turned and you get that lucky shot, but that
would have consequences too, and they would not be nice for
the golpistas. Chavez maintains order and keeps the peace,
such as it is.

Castro is still sitting there thumbing his nose at us. The spooks
are far from omnipotent, and the current crop, as is pointed out
from time to time in other contexts, is mostly a bunch of desk
jockies; and the folks over at State seem to be the worst bunch of
retards that we have seen in my lifetime.

[24HRrnr]

8. Hey, we gotta keep the peace

even if it means shooting two kids. Chavez is a thug.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040304/wl_afp/venezuela_040304125347

[bemildred]

11. Carmona is a thug.

Chavez is a statesman.

[24HRrnr]

12. How do you define statesman?

He hasn't killed any of his citizens this week? Oh, wait - he did but it was less than a dozen, so it doesn't count.

Here's any oldie but a goodie - four tortured and executed.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR530052003

[bemildred]

14. If I remember right that was a drug-related killing

by another member of the opposition? Had nothing to do
with Chavez.

[24HRrnr]

20. WTG

you/ve got the party-line down pat.

[bemildred]

22. So you don't deny the facts there? nt

[Just Me]

72. *LOL*,...bemildred,...shine that light!!!

You are simply FABULOUS!!! Pin those "evil-doers" to their own dung!!!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

15. How about the "opposition".

Placing "Bandera Roja" snipers on roofs to shoot at civilians and stir shit even deeper. Is that not thuggish?


http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0412-08.htm

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

33. And they misrepresented the actual facts because they own the TV stations

see the movie "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" if you want to see what really happened

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

34. Actually I've been downloading it for the past week.

It seems to be taking forver.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

35. Believe me - its worth it. Run out and rent/buy or order it

Chavez isn't the Thug. Nor, really is Carmona - Its the US. As if that could be a surprise to anyone.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

37. I didn't think it was available for purchase yet.

I went to the website and they're still advertising screenings (not in my city). I disagree though. Carmona and his ilk are racist elitist thugs who've been screwing they're own for decades (with the explicit and active support of the US of course.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

38. You don't disagree. The movie is exactly about that.

It shows how Carmona and the rich White minority and Oligarchy caused a bloody coup. And were defeated by the people.

http://www.chavezthefilm.com/html/home.htm

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

40. It was a bad attempt at sarcasm really.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

42. See what happens when I get riled up?

As you can see from my name I am a little biased.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

43. As you can see for mine I'm a Bush fan.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

55. I think I'm beginning to understand this "sarcasm" which you speak of

:)

[Say_What]

16. Dishonest Dubya! Lying Action Figure. (Not a statesman!!)

This is the guy you need to be worried about--a deranged mental misfit selected to lead the most powerful nation on the planet. Now that's scary!!

http://www.kaicurry.com/gwbush/dishonestdubya.html

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

32. Chavez represents the people

"The Chavez is a thug" line is the official line of the Bush Administration and the Oligarchs. It's interesting to hear it from someone in DU, especially one with so few posts. The US official stance and underhanded dealing with Venezuela and the rest of the Southern Hemisphere is the only thug I see.

[24HRrnr]

41. Sorry that I don't have enough posts for /can you explain why UN Amb

just quit in protest? I mean, since everuthing is peachy and the people are thrilled?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3533935.stm

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

44. The other side of the story is that there is even stronger PRO-CHAVEZ

support. He has enemies very loudly protesting his policies to pull the 80% of the population that are poor up to a true democtratic life. But they have the 4th largest oil reserves ON EARTH. Chavez has rich and powerful enemies who will say anything to have him deposed. But the people love him and they were the ones being shot in the failed coup of Carmona and his oligarchs. As I said in a post further on - you sound like Powell and Rice.

www.chavezthefilm.com

[24HRrnr]

46. Why did Venezuela's UN Ambassador resign today?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

47. was he part of Chavez's cabinet?

[bemildred]

48. It's pretty interesting.

He's a long time Chavez supporter, due to be reposted to Britain,
resigned in protest of the decision about the recall.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

49. So why the change. What's Chavez doing that's so different?

[bemildred]

50. No telling.

Does not make a lot of sense to me either.
Seems clear he is pissed about something.
We'll have to stay tuned and see what occurs.

[24HRrnr]

52. Try the Beeb

<Milos Alcalay told a news conference in New York that he had always worked to promote democracy, human rights and a non-confrontational foreign policy.
"Sadly, Venezuela now is operating devoid of these fundamental principles," Mr Alcalay said....
...Mr Alcalay said the actions of the National Electoral Council, which has ordered the reconfirmation of more than 1m disputed pro-referendum signatures, "rob Venezuelans of the right to affect change through the democratic process".>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3533935.stm

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

54. The AP article has an interesting paragraph which states my claim well

"The South American nation of 24 million people is torn between Venezuelans who say Chavez has become increasingly autocratic and those who say he speaks for the poor."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3821721,00.html

Guess which side of the argument I'm on. I'm not going to blindly listen to the BBC, I've been burned before. I'll wait for the story to unfold.

[bemildred]

53. Check it out on Vheadline, there are a couple

interesting stories. A good deal more on the Ambassador and
a statement from Colon Bowel that the US accepts the decision
of the electoral commission. I'm guessing the ambassador was
upset about Hugo calling Shrub out the other day.

[Say_What]

68. Guess what?

that claim that Hugo called Bush an a$$hole may be a lie (well he is an a$$hole), but a friend who reads DU pretty regualar :hi: went looking for the remark in his speech and couldn't find it. More dirty tricks by the US golpistas perhaps...

[bemildred]

70. Eh, I figured it was a "translation" anyway.

One of the fav propaganda techniques is to paint the
other fellow as a "loose cannon", like what was done to
Howard Dean, and to Aristide too. The flip side is trying
to present Shrub as a steady and prudent middle-of-the-road
leader. I'm sure this is part of some such effort WRT Hugo.
It's even possible that the Ambassador resigning ties in
with that.

[MisterP]

45. Ari Fleischer

the next day, the Beltway Snipings began; great timing, Ari

[Say_What]

7. Segment on Dem Now this am about Ven., NED, etc.

Listen/read at this link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/04/1554235

[bemildred]

9. Tsk, how embarassing.

Sounds like opposing Chavez is a good way to make a living
in Venezuela.

[24HRrnr]

10. Opposing Chavez

is a good way to end up beaten or dead.

[bemildred]

13. I apologize if I have annoyed you.

But, name calling will not help. Things are certainly
tense in Venezuela, but there are no death squads and secret
police running around all over the place and the opposition
is literally allowed to riot in the streets in the attempt to
get their way. There is no censorship. Chavez has been most
lenient, and he has adhered strongly to democratic methods, if
you leave out that first failed coup. He has been most wise to
do so too. It is hardly the behavior of a power-mad dictator.

[24HRrnr]

17. I am going to have to disagree

when Amnesty declares human rights crisises, the National Guard is shooting kids in the streets, opposition leaders are rounded up, chavez threatens to dissolve Congress and gut the Supreme court and re-writes the Constitution to grant himself broad new powers.

He may not be power-mad but he is certainly a dictator and I will hold him responsible for the dead in the streets.

[bemildred]

18. By all means, do, that is what free speech is all about. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. Actually Mr Carmona

disbanded the Supreme Court, shut down congress and tried to dissolve the constitution. Those were his first acts as the illegally selected "president". Anyone that claims to know what's happening down there should at least be aware of those facts.

[bemildred]

21. That is true, perhaps he confuses Chavez with Carmona? nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. They are like twins, these two.

One is a populist mestizo and the other one a white collar criminal elitist in every sense of the word.

[24HRrnr]

27. Man, have you got that right!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

30. Since you missed the rest of the post here ya' go again.

For accuracy's sake:

One is a populist mestizo and the other one a white collar criminal elitist in every sense of the word. (sarcasm intended just in case)

[bemildred]

29. Same shifty eyes.

Same tendency to kleptomania. You have read about the billions
in swiss bank accounts in Hugo's name, right?

But seriously, Chavez has to be way smarter than Carmona.
Chavez has stayed in power all these years despite the best efforts
of the US and the golpistas, Carmona lasted two days.

Edit: with US suppport.

[24HRrnr]

26. Chaves threatened

to dissolve Congress in August of 1999. Congress caved and granted him broad new powers. I was precise and accurate in my statement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/433447.stm

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. You mean Chavez?

[Say_What]

69. Carmona the Golpista hero

[24HRrnr]

23. Yes

I am not an apologist for Carmona. I am not an apologist for Chavez.

I'm damned tired of people getting shot in the streets and having people on the outside going "oh what a statesman!"

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

25. Yes I'm sure Mr Chavez is also tired of his supporters getting shot

and blown up by alumni of the SOA. Actually we're all tired of this shit. I've seen this same exact movie before in Guatemala. Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina just to name a few. If you bother to read the scripts they are all the same. Shame in the USA for continuing this international criminality and for its citizens to continue playing along.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

36. The people getting shot are mostly pro-Chavez

You do seem to be a Carmona apologist or you're toeing the Bush Party line.
You sound just like Colin Powell and Condoleza Rice

[Judi Lynn]

31. You're preaching to the wrong choir here

Many of us were here in April, 2002, reading all the articles, as well as getting reports from a DU'er who was in Venezuela at the very same moment, etc.

WE ALL KNOW who went wacko:

The coup leaders installed Mr Carmona as president, claiming Mr Chavez had resigned, but Mr Carmona was arrested two days later.

During his brief tenure, Mr Carmona dismissed Congress and the Supreme Court, abolished the constitution and appointed a cabinet.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2005591.stm

In the two days he was in office, Carmona tried to dissolve the National Assembly and scrap the Constitution, which had been approved overwhelmingly by the people.
(snip)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/venezuela.htm

It's a good thing they rounded him up, or Pedro Carmona, and his group of criminals would have done a lot more damage.

Concerning the Venezuelan President who served just before Chavez:

In 1989, the prevailing political calm was shattered when Venezuela experienced rioting in which more than 200 people were killed--the so-called Caracazo, in response to an economic austerity program launched by then-President Carlos Andres Perez. Subsequently in February 1992, a group of army lieutenant colonels led by future President Hugo Chavez mounted an unsuccessful coup attempt, claiming that the events of 1989 showed that the political system no longer served the interests of the people. A second, equally unsuccessful,coup attempt by other officers followed in November in 1992. A year later, Congress impeached Perez on corruption charges. Deep popular dissatisfaction with the traditional political parties, income disparities, and economic difficulties were some of the major frustrations expressed by Venezuelans following Perez's impeachment.(snip/...)

http://www.traveldocs.com/ve/govern.htm

Mass reaction to the "paquete" resulted in a massacre known as the "Caracazo". (From Caracas, the capital of the country where the riots were worst). In February 2nd 1989, as a reaction to the increases of public transportation fee (consequence of the increase of gas prices), people from popular sectors (armed with stones and sticks) rioted into the streets and stores of the main Venezuelan cities. The people were severe repressed by the army. This event left more than 300 "official" dead.

1992 brought two coup attempts, led by the present president Hugo Chavez Frías. And 1993 was the year of the year of the removal of the president Carlos Andres Perez.
(snip)

http://www.pcr.uu.se/courses/pacs/latinpeacenet/page33.html

In 1993 Congress impeached Perez on corruption charges.
(snip)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/venezuela.htm

On edit:
Gots ta add some mahvelous Pedro Carmona photos:



The glory day of Carmona's dazzling Presidency.

[gulfcoastliberal]

51. This is the Opposition:

The wealthy elite, dressed in her designer jeans, with a nice designer leather stachel, trying to injure law enforcement personnel. And people wonder why there's violence down there... See this post that was locked in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1193541

[Judi Lynn]

71. Thanks for the photo! Just as one might suspect, too.

Definitely reinforces Greg Palast's description of the opposition demonstrators as being composed of very fair, often blond European types in a very South American country, populated by a vast majority of indigenous Indian. blended, and black citizens.

It's a classic!

[Nlighten1]

73. If she were a Palestinian..she would be a terrorist...

This administration probably sees her as a hero.

[gulfcoastliberal]

39. I Found Interesting

They said the US gave nearly $3 million THIS YEAR to Haitian opposition groups, and over $700,000 to Venezuelan Chavez opponents. I agree with SmirkyW - that our interference in South America has been a shameful legacy we should all be aware of. I can't believe even now it continues. Such a travesty.

[Vladimir]

56. Quoting from the article:

"Big business, labor unions and nearly all of the middle and upper classes say Chavez is working with his close friend, Cuban President Fidel Castro, to turn the country into a Marxist dictatorship. The opposition coalition has carried out three crippling general strikes, and in April 2002 it overthrew Chavez for two days until he was reinstated by young army officers and crowds of his impoverished supporters."

So its the poor vs. big business and the middle class. And i'm supposed to support the middle class? LOL

Chavez is a goddamn hero.

V

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

57. AMEN!!!

:toast:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

58. I think you're goddamn right.

[bemildred]

59. They don't know shit about what a communist dictatorship looks

like either. Whatever Venezuela is today, it is a hellofa long
way from N. Korea or the USSR, and Hugo hasn't shown any interest
in going in that direction.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

60. Also the US is notorious for trying to keep these resource rich states

from distributing the wealth. The US doesn't want Venezuela to be like Kuwait. They'd rather it be like Uzbekistan or Angola

[bemildred]

62. Yeah, I know, it's a bad example when they do that. nt

[Vladimir]

61. The NK image of communism

is convinient because it makes people forget context. If you compare almost any South American country to, say, Sweden... well you'd be an idiot. Yet every Socialist country is compared to the richest Western countries, ignoring context utterly. Compare Venezuela/Cuba to, ohhh, lets say the Dominican Republic. Or Bolivia. Then talk to me about the evils of socialism.

V

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

63. Here here

very well said. Venezuela can't be dealt with by the US like any other S. American nation due to it's position in OPEC. There is something strange afoot at the circle K!

[bemildred]

64. I'm a pinko myself.

Marx was not a totalitarian, that was stuff that Lenin, Trotsky
and their buddies came up with. Didn't work very well. I'm an
Orwellian socialist, if anything. I was just pointing out that Hugo
is no totalitarian Stalinist, or any other kind of totalitarian
that I can see.

FWIW: he doesn't seem to be particularly socialist either, he seems
to favor a mixed economy and greater national economic self-sufficiency,
a good thing IMHO, but he doesn't seem to have a beef with private
property or the idea of somebody making a profit.

[Vladimir]

65. I didn't mean

my post as an attack... I was just following your point up. We could have a long discussion about my view of the USSR... but the spirit of your post I certainly agree with. :)

V

[bemildred]

66. That is cool.

History is messy if you look under the hood.
The Russians are a great people, they will find their own way.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

67. In the spirit of both your posts I say: Chavez seems genuinely

interested in the good of the people. He wants the 80% of his population to have some of the wealth the 4th largest oil producer has. He wants them to be literate and read and understand their constitution and he is having some success at this. To paint him as an evil socialist is in the best interest of our elitist capitalist government and its allies. Then you bring in the OPEC issue and - oy vey! - what a headache for Bush!