US faces mounting international fury over Aristide's 'forced' exit

[Say_What]

As far as the Haitian consul general in New York is concerned, Mr Aristide is still the country's legitimate president.

<clips>

South Africa added its voice last night to a growing international chorus questioning the circumstances surrounding Jean-Bertrand Aristide's departure from Haiti and demanded an investigation into allegations that the US forcibly removed a democratically elected president from office.

In a thinly veiled attack on the Bush administration, South Africa's Foreign Affairs Minister, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, said that if Mr Aristide had been prised from power against his will, it would have "serious consequences and ramifications for the respect of the rule of law and democracy the world over".

The issue, fuelled by direct accusations by Mr Aristide that he was, in effect, kidnapped and hustled into exile in the Central African Republic under conditions that he likened to imprisonment, has once again thrust a spotlight on the Bush administration's conduct of foreign policy and risks becoming a liability for President Bush as he begins his re-election campaign.

The Bush administration has denied kidnapping or forcing Mr Aristide from office at gunpoint, claiming he sought safe passage out of the country under US escort. But the appearance of at least some degree of coercion, has prompted angry responses from President Bush's domestic critics and some international bodies.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=498045

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. I will get excited about International outrage when I hear the planes

[Say_What]

3. CAR now saying Aristide didn't know until 45 min. before landing where

they were taking him! He and his entourage were guarded by 60 US marines--60 marines!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3534781.stm

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. The ball is in the rest of the world's court now

They have two choices, wait their turn, or get off their butts, form a coalition and disarm the US.

[Nihil]

30. Only in our dreams DtF

There is no chance of any military action against the USA, absolutely
none whatsoever. Any attempt would result in immediate and overwhelming
retaliation. Nobody doubts this and so it will not be considered.

With regard to other methods to "disarm the US", the only possibility
is through economic warfare (i.e., hastening the effects of the Bush
administration's own mis-management) but, again, anything obvious will
result in military retaliation. Besides, any effect before the point
of retaliation will only harm the majority of good, honest Americans
who also dislike Bush. We certainly do not wish any harm to *you*.

The "rest of the world" might well know that your inglorious leader
is an unwanted, illiterate dipstick but sadly we are totally helpless.
Your administration is only too aware of this and will continue to
merrily abuse its power until such time as the people regain control
over the power-mongers. May it happen soon.

Nihil

[gate of the sun]

2. It's about time and I hope the

fury continues until our illustrious leader explains our actions against a democratically elected Leader. I thought we wanted to spread Democracy everywhere because it's so wonderful. Even that I disagree with but this takes some explaining.

[DemonFighterLives]

4. Some Dorky Republican called Aristide a Socialist

That was in rebuttal to Conyers and others in the house.
So we had to oust him to get the capitalist pig fattened. Where is Aristide? Awfully quiet out there.
Down with the shrub!

[Chicago Democrat]

6. He's been denied access to a phone...

Since Tuseday or Wednesday at the latest!

This -is- an outrage. But because he's black and represents the poor; this racist, elistist, porcine Bushco administration has crushed him. This must not stand.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

8. phone? why phone home when they should take him home...???

...as BushCo claims that they are getting everything under control...???

[Occulus]

15. Hoooold on a second.

It's been my understanding that Aristide is himself not the greatest leader regarding human rights.

Is this true or false? If it's true, well, this is still an outrage, but he personally doesn't to me sound like a man worth defending too hotly.

However, in principle, this simply cannot stand; Aristide must be immediately restored to office or all of *'s statements about spreading democracy will be called into question on the international stage. If that happens, Iraq could eventually be declared a war of aggression by the rest of the world. I think I'm safe in saying that that would be a Very Bad Thing.

[Zhade]

20. Quite a bit of those stories are pure propaganda.

There are many posts about this, especially by people like Tinoire, who is originally from Haiti if I remember correctly.

[rman]

23. did Saddam throw babies out of incubators?

there were enough people believing that - enough to start a war.
of course one can always maintain that was an exception.

[Occulus]

29. Well....

I'm in the process of educating myself about Aristide, and until I have more information, I'm not going to comment on him personally. However, as I stressed, I believe the principle of what's at stake here- the leadership of a democratically elected leader- transcends the man who fills that office.

This is an outrage, and I do not see it disappearing quietly. In fact, I can only see it inflaming anti-US sentiments around the globe. This was a Bad Decision, and we could all in some way pay for it.

[berry]

7. The headline sounds good

but the article only mentions CARICOM and South Africa. I don't include CAR because it looks as if it hasn't the will or power to criticize the US/France. So where is everyone else?

I want to see the UN and also individual countries oppose this ON PRINCIPLE. Actually, I'm a little unnerved by how cowed so much of the world seems to be by this outlaw regime of ours.

[windansea]

11. perhaps they don't believe Aristide

or are less than impressed with his human rights record, intimidation tactics, curtailment of free press, and reports of rigged elections

You do realize that the US has given about a billion dollars in aid since 95....not sure what other countries have given but nothing near that figure...I wonder why Clinton has not spoken about the situation.

The U.S. Government (USG), through USAID, is Haiti's largest bilateral donor. In FY 2003, USAID contributed $71 million. From FY 1995 to 2003, USAID provided a total of $850 million in direct bilateral assistance. For FY 2004, USAID has planned $52 million in assistance for programs including health, democracy and governance, education, and economic growth. To ensure the provision of assistance to Haitians most in need, USAID assistance is channeled principally through non-governmental organizations (NGOs). The USG provides food and food-related assistance directly and indirectly to 640,000 Haitians.

http://www.usaid.gov/haiti/

[AP]

12. US owes them alot after supporting Duvalier, perhaps.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

14. I'm sure a lot of it went to pay the IMF / WTO loan sharks too.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

13. "provision of assistance to Haitians most in need"...you believe that?

Really?

I guess you've never been there. I have. I've used those dollars to which they refer, I've written the proposals that got those dollars, I've had to squeeze the AID reps to get it. Believe me, you don't have the time to hear the horror stories, and I don't have the time to write them.

Very little of the USAID budget actually goes to ngo's working with those in most need in any of the countries where I've worked. And Haiti is just one of maybe 15 different developing countries that I've worked in.

Look more closely - AID's mission is, as part of the State Dept, to promote US interests overseas. Inevitably, that means promoting American bidnez.

[windansea]

17. sad

I would be interested in knowing a breakdown of that Billion and to whom it was given...sounds like you might know where to look?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. One place of interest would be

Dick Cheney's ass. I hear there's all kinds of stuff hidden in there away from the public.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

19. actually, yer not far off...

Windansea, thank you. That was a very open response. Wanna hear even more "sad" - Smirky's flippant answer is more accurate than you might think.

H. Ha. Hal. Hall. Halli. Hallib. Hallibu. Hallibur. Get it?

No, not just Halliburton. But, for instance, in '94-'95, Halliburton maintained a huge logistical base and supply line for the US troops in Haiti. They also contracted & subbed for some construction work on the port and other infrastructure in PaP and environs. I couldn't say exactly what budget lines paid Halliburton their cost+10%. But I can say with complete confidence that as soon as they left Haiti, there was an immense sucking sound of US gov't dollars rushing out of the country.

"US Agency for International Development"..."development" being essentially bidnez development. AID money funds - among other things - the infrastructure needs generated in the process of offshoring manufacturing from the US to developing countries. Wanna move your factory to Haiti - but, say, there is not enough electrical power for your new factory in the Free Trade Zone down the port? AID money pays to rig those power lines and prob'ly to buy the energy that feeds those lines. Need some help with yer factory construction costs - maybe we'd see an AID flow-through to the local gov't then to a local construction company, then...you move in to a brand-new-albeit-not-exactly-up-to-code factory for a small bribe to the locals.

If you've a mind to, you can prob'ly find indications of what I speak by a really intensive look at AID's budget, correlated with the local news, correlated with US bidnez relocations, correlated with US bidnez press releases, etc. But if you want proof - not indications - you better have a stack of FOI forms...or you could hop down to PaP, register at the Montana Hotel in Petionville, and see who shows up over the next couple months...(you'll see the Amurhikkan contractors at the Montana, but you'd have mo' fun if you stayed at the Oloffson)

Yes, AID does fund humanitarian ngo's - and you can find that specific contract info on most AID country-websites. I seriously doubt, even as described on AID sites, that humanitarian ngo's contracts will amount to more than 15-20% of AID's budget in any country - at the most, even in an emergency. Yes, AID does fund emergency work, and you can find that thru the site for BPRM (Bureau of Population, Refugees, & Migration). Does AID "feed 640,000 Haitians"? Maybe in theory, but if so, prob'ly thru commodity donations to the UN's WFP - which means that some US company like Archer Daniels Midland got paid top-dollar in USAID funds for frankengrains. I say "in theory", because it's pretty typical for 20-70% of WFP food to be "diverted" (and oh! boy, is that another story...)

You wanna hear the story about how the AID morans almost accidentally put 70% of the people of Haiti on WFP food assistance in '95...???

[Occulus]

16. So the rest of the world is going to give * an inch.

The problem is, people like * end up taking a mile instead.

[Dover]

9. I am reminded of the scene from Dangerous Liasons when the main

female character has finally been "found out" for what she is. After being party to a manipulation and deceit that ends in the deaths of two people, she goes to the local opera and comes unraveled when people stand up and face her, booing and hissing. She leaves the opera and goes home and the last scene shows her rubbing off her carefully cultivated and covetted social mask (heavy makeup = social mask)........She was finished and so is Bush. Nowhere else to go when the whole world has found you out.

[fearnobush]

10. They have taken the blue pill.

But Maxine Waters sure gave Noriaga hell today.

[Judi Lynn]

22. You don't say! Very good news. He surely has it coming

for his behavior now, and as Jesse Helm's former chief of staff.

I hope Maxine Waters will live to be a very healthy old person, without ever falling victem to an assassination attempt, or to a fatal "accident."

[Sugarbleus]

21. While we shouldn't be setting up governments for other countries..

and ousting leaders of others, I'm just really really confused about this business in Haiti.

Which side is right? I don't get it.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Where do you think the weapons went?????

From the posted Independent article:

(snip) The South African President, Thabo Mbeki, was one of the few world leaders to attend celebrations in Haiti on New Year's Day, to mark the 200th anniversary of its independence. And according to South African news reports, the country recently sent weapons, ammunition and bulletproof vests to help Mr Aristide defend himself against an armed rebellion led by former army commanders and paramilitary death squad leaders from the 1980s and early 1990s. But the shipment did not arrive before Mr Aristide's departure last weekend and its exact whereabouts are unknown.


South Africa has said it would offer Mr Aristide asylum if it was asked. The Central African Republic made a similar offer yesterday, but said it was in no position to pay for his upkeep in the long term.
(snip)

[I AM SPARTACUS]

25. can you say "contra"...? as in, "Iran-Contra", or maybe "Chavez-Contra"...

...I've been wondering the same thing. It seems that I read that the shipment was supposed to arrive this past Tuesday, two days after Aristide was coup'd-napped.

[Judi Lynn]

28. It couldn't have turned out that poorly without outside help, you'd think.

He couldn't have been more vulnerable. What a shame.

[Rex]

26. Of course they forced him out at gunpoint!

If they could do that in THIS COUNTRY you better dam well believe they would! Mike Malloy doesn't call them "criminals & thugs" just to be cute.

I hope the world rises up against the BFEE.

[Buns_of_Fire]

27. Is anyone keeping track of the countries that the BFEE has ticked off?

Or perhaps, to make a shorter list, is anyone keeping track of the countries that the BFEE hasn't ticked off?

Cowboy diplomacy -- ain't it grand? I fear the world is going to become a very lonely place for Americans before we can pry this clown from the Oval Office.