47 trapped on 'nightmare' flight to the Twin Cities(9 hours on the Tarmac)

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

When Link Christin boarded a Continental Airlines flight from Houston to the Twin Cities on Friday night, he expected to be on the ground in about three hours and ready for a comfy bed.

Instead, he was among 47 passengers who spent the night trapped inside a small airplane, parked at the Rochester airport, complete with crying babies and the aroma of over-used toilets.

The ExpressJet Airlines that operated the plane says the flight was diverted to Rochester because of Twin Cities thunderstorms, and that airline regulations prevented passengers from getting off the plane.

Christin is incredulous that the airline couldn't figure out an option besides trapping passengers on the plane for nine hours.

-----

The airline crew on the plane reached their maximum work hours in the air, so another crew had to be flown in. The alternative of chartering a bus didn't work out. And letting the passengers into the Rochester airport was not possible because they would have to go through security screening again, and the screeners had gone home for the day.



Read more: http://www.startribune.com/local/east/52798827.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:-DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUF

[sharp_stick]

1. This is idiotic

why would they have to be re-screened? I was trapped once for 4.5 hours and we were ready to kill the people running the airline. I still haven't gotten on an American Airlines flight since then and that was 7 years ago. When they finally let us off, never having left the fucking airport they didn't even offer us a damned meal voucher and we had to spend the damned night in Chicago.

We really do need a passenger's bill of rights.

[Auggie]

4. It's being worked on...

LINK: http://strandedpassengers.blogspot.com/

[bemildred]

24. Four hours at JFK to fix the cockpit clock. When we finally left, it was without fixing that clock.

It's like they can't think at all.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

108. I think most of the excuses they give are bogus.

Imagine "The left engine is hanging by one rivet."

[bemildred]

110. Well true, but if you're going to lie, why not say: "OK, we fixed the clock now"?

They told us that the clock was not fixed and we were leaving anyway.

[orleans]

2. no one can figure out a better way for passengers?

it's a wonder they are able to run the airlines, write a paycheck, fly a plane, run an airport.

what the fuck is wrong with these people who just can't be bothered?

why is there not one or two screeners at this airport round the clock for emergencies such as this? they would to have had to screen 47 people--not 4700 people--and they couldn't do that? shame on everyone involved.

[Raschel]

14. They flew in another crew but couldn't call in a couple of screeners.

:wtf:

[orleans]

35. exactly. what assholes. n/t

[unblock]

54. the crew work for the airline, the screeners don't

that's not a justification, but it is an explanation.

[wordpix]

109. you'd think a smart CEO could anticipate these events, or at least

deal with them when they happen. Hell, if I were the CEO I'd get some other higher ups to go with me and do the screening myself.

[unblock]

114. i don't think they're allowed to do the screening themselves

it's a government function (tsa).

[Grinchie]

29. Who said anything about their ability to run an Airline?

Paychecks are outsourced to some payroll company no doubt, just like 90% of all the businesses in America.

It can no longer be attributed to "Not my Yob" syndrome, but is more like rooted on fear, unhappiness, and a feeling of betrayal projected ultimately upon the helpless customer. The Corporations a fully unnaccountable as long as they follow the letter of the law thet they themselves wrote for the Government to implement.

They know that the average shlub is not going to expend the resources on a civil case when some slick big city hyper chicken will claim that they really suffered no damage of consequence.

[merwin]

41. Someone on the plane should have faked a severe anxiety attack,

or some other equally hard to disprove condition... only way to get out of that situation. Personally, after about 3 hours I would be willing to volunteer myself for that.

Why are Americans so gutless and compliant? There needs to be mass uprising when something like this happens. One person throws a fit and they can be silenced. A plane full of people demand to get off and threaten riot and they WILL let you off, probably without any arrests...

It's easy to explain one pereson getting angry and arrested... a lot harder to explain why you arrested 50 people after keeping them detained for several hours.

[Grinchie]

65. Maybe they are afraid they'll inject them with a sedative from some doctor

[merwin]

76. In that case, at least you wouldn't mind waiting.

Probably the only way I would sit through 9 hours on a tarmac...

[crikkett]

86. you're painting a scenario from a Douglas Adams book n/t

[tanyev]

81. What would they do if they had a diabetic on board?

My husband is Type 1. Of course we carry snacks, but not enough to get him through 9 hours stuck on an airplane. I guess we need to start. :(

[Grinchie]

102. They would just serve him free Soda Pop.

Otherwise, they would just let him stew like all the rest.

[crikkett]

85. what's interesting is that I don't hear stories of other countries' 'mass uprisings'

with the exception of France.

So give me a recent, real-life example of what we Americans should live up to, drawn from your own experience or the experience of a fellow countryman of yours. I want to know how your people stand up for their rights.

Please!

Thanks.

[The Stranger]

95. Since when have Americans waited on someone else for an example?

Be original. I'm sure people have done it before.

[crikkett]

111. I'm sorry, this non-citizen upthread told me I should riot on an airplane.

Dude wrote that Americans were pussies for sitting there 9 hours when simply crossing a flight attendant would get them arrested (on the other end of the flight no less. So the consequences of following their suggestion would have been, 9 hrs on the tarmac, then an arrest after the flight, and then time in jail, and then a messy court thing after all that.)

So I'm all like, where is your courage? Show me some gumption, so I can draw inspiration from a real live example, otherwise yer fullofit.

And here you come along, saying yeah, riot is good, egging us on. You're guessing that it's been done before. Well it has been done before, on ships, it's called mutiny, and you get shot for that.

So I think you're both fullofit.

[Common Sense Party]

115. You mean the non-citizen that lives in Washington?

ow do you know the person's citizen status?

[customerserviceguy]

3. Until they change these stupid rules

I am absolutely NOT going to get on any regional airlines.

I wonder what the eventual outcome would have been if someone had popped open an emergency exit. Yes, there'd be an arrest, but if the person doing it had some "excuse", like PSTD from being in a war, they might attract sympathy for the cause.

[Grinchie]

30. I was thinking more on the line of Chest Pains.

Not much they could retaliate for on that situation.

[pennylane100]

44. I was just about to suggest that.

I would definitely do that after the first hour.

However I was trapped in plane once after making an emergency landing in Bangor Maine, flying from London. As a person who really hates to fly, I was too drunk to know the reason the pilot gave for having to land. I even remarked to the person next to me that there were fire engines following us down the runway and what were they doing there.

As I sobered up, I went up to the flight attendant and explained my fear and now I was getting sober and would probably start having a panic attack. She happily supplied me with free booze for the rest of the time on th3e ground and all the way to san francisco.

[liberalmuse]

5. Christ.

Sometimes common sense needs to override 'following the rules'. This shit proves how easily human beings can allow themselves to become no more than cattle.

[caseymoz]

45. I would have demanded my lawyer.

Illegal confinement.

[question everything]

6. This is starting to happen too often

When one realizes how the airlines are bleeding cash, one would think that they should make extra effort, together with the FAA and the other agencies to offer a better solution.

[Haole Girl]

7. "...the legal requirements of airlines "?

Was it security (TSA screening, etc) or was it the Rochester airport who just didn't have personnel to re-open the terminal? Or, poor planning on the part of Continental? As bad as a cancellation is, it's far better than having passengers end up in this scenario. :-(

[fudge stripe cookays]

8. They tried to do this to me in Austin a few years ago.

We had to divert from Houston in really crappy weather (after circling for awhile). We ended up in Austin to refuel. Turns out there had been tornados circling around Pasadena. The turbulence through the entire flight was awful. I was terrified.

When we landed in Austin, I marched up the aisle and told the stewardess to let me off the plane. She attempted to argue with me, saying the same thing-- that airline regulations prohibited me from getting off the plane.

I told her "Look, I'm NOT getting back on this plane. I've got family to stay with here, and I AM getting off this plane. Get out of my way." After much protesting from her about how I'd have to pay for another flight, yadda yadda, I did get off. I ended up getting another flight in a day or so when the weather was better.

I'll bet if every passenger on this flight had done something similar, that they wouldn't have been able to fight them all off.

[Serial Mom]

39. I'm surprised you weren't arrested!!

My husband has a loud speaking voice and he has been threatened at least twice with arrest by "pompous" flight attendant that feel they can do anything, and if you don't like it, threaten you!

[fudge stripe cookays]

82. Yeah, me too.

It was the first time I'd flown after 911, and I was already a nervous wreck with the weather, even on such a short haul flight.

I'd had a very nice fellow seated next to me who kept trying to talk to me so I wouldn't look out the window, because the black clouds were roiling, as they can only do in Texas at the peak of tornado season.

I think they realized they were overwhelmed-- it was a Southwest flight, and several people followed me up the aisle and said they were getting off too!

[stray cat]

104. Did you pay for the other flight? Most of us don't want to pay for a flight with one days notice

that can be over $1000 extra dollars - I would stay on the plane rather than wasted $1000 or more

[MissDeeds]

9. So, laws about taking hostages don't apply

to airlines. What about kidnapping? Holding someone against their will? Imprisonment? I cannot believe how totally screwed up many aspects of law, governance, and regulations are in this country. Un.Freakin'.Believable.

Wonder what would happen if passengers would pop the emergency door, release the chute, and get the hell off on their own...

[Haole Girl]

10. Opening the emergency door, in this situation, would land you in jail

NOT a good idea. As tempting as it could be for some.

[bad_robbie]

93. Not that night . . .

Remember, all the security had gone home. Besides, what part of trapped in a plane isn't an emergency. I sure hope I get called for jury duty some day.

[DrZeeLit]

11. This happened to me once and I was returning from Europe with a group of students. OY!

Thunderstorms forced us down at an airport where the airline did not have "privileges" so we sat on the tarmac for several hours.
Finally, after watching just about every movie they had on board (at the time the movies were for fee in all but first class so they had several movies), and running out of snacks and drinks (again, they had meal service then), they negotiated for a limited number of passengers at a time to get off to use the facilities and phones (no cell phones then... I think it was 1991).
Once the storm was over and it was very late, they herded us all back into the plane and we went to another airport. We arrived at about 2 a.m. and queued up for vouchers and morning flights.
Of course, with a group, I didn't get any help. They ran out of hotel vouchers, but gave us each one of those little blue pillows and a blue "blanket" and let us sleep on the floor. I didn't get much sleep, since all my charges were girls sleeping on the floor in an unknown airport. We were supposed to be out on the first morning flight they could find. Yeah, at 3 a.m. the guy told me it was all set. He didn't even give me breakfast vouchers because we wouldn't be there when the food places opened... we'd be gone

Yeah, right. We trooped our way through the airport and lined up for the flight only to find that we had NO reservations. OMG... back to the customer service desk at the originating airline and by now I'm not a happy camper and neither all the girls, who have now been traveling from Rome to NYC to the midwest -- probably awake for more than 24 hours. And hungry and GRUMPY.

Needless to say, we had no idea where our luggage was ..... not to mention LOTS of freaked out parents in San Diego when we didn't arrive TWICE.

They did give us vouchers for meals and they did get us on a flight... all of us on the same flight, but it was later that afternoon.

I think if they had let us out of the plane at the first stop during the storm we might have fared better and been more prepared, mentally and physically, for all the crap that came after that.
But...

Back in Rome, one of the girls had said, "I never want this trip to end." To which I said later, "Watch out...you might get what you wish for..."

[Locrian]

12. this is happening more and more...

And it's because they have completely lost control of their "system". The convoluted chain of "ownership" and responsibility creates a situation where NOBODY is in charge. It's the same effect as with the "United Breaks Guitars" thing. NOBODY in charge to do the simple right thing.

Business is fucked. They dont give a dam about their product or service. They are commodities, worth more for their financial services part or the part that "cooks the books" for a few wealthy owners.

It's a sad joke - and WHY do people still think "business knows better" and "they are the smart people"? Pass some damn rules and force these fuckers to act human.

[Grinchie]

32. People should rent the movie "Other Peoples Money" to get an idea of how they dismantle business

The movie poses a choice between ethics, and profitability. The Movie chooses to go with profitability, with a silver lining at the end, but it's a fallacy. They really do gut viable business for a few million dollars in profits. Damn the workers, morale, or whatever it was that took years to build up into a viable entity.

Unfortunately, profits are not the same thing a tangible production and employment.

Just look at your basic EULA for software or electical device. You basically waive many of your rights almost as soon as you open the box. They have reasons for doing that....

[LuckyLib]

90. Exactly. Nobody is in charge and no one will make a decision.

Folks need to take matters into their own hands.

[kestrel91316]

13. Explain to me again how it is that the terrorists haven't already won?

Because it sure looks to me like they have completely fucked up what was once a very fine transportation system.

[saigon68]

16. They have won

I Loath flying !!! And especially being looked at by sub-humanoid types posing as "SECURITY" whatever the Fuck that is.

[Posteritatis]

26. The state of airlines these days has turned me into a train fan

It takes longer, yeah, but for a lot of things that isn't that important, and I have no problem with being treated far better for half the price.

[saigon68]

80. It doesn't run near me, or take me to Puerto Rico

I will put up with their antics(The TSA) once a year or so.

The US is held captive to the Trucking lobby.

Amazing how the Govt has molly coddled this one special interest.

[Posteritatis]

83. True; ugh

I'm in Canada, so all the major cities are linked by the same general rail route. Still a day and a half from southern Ontario to Nova Scotia, but it was a more pleasant trip than the "direct flight" to Toronto I took once that involved five planes and three airports.

[caseymoz]

43. I don't think it was a very fine transportation system before.

They certainly turned it into a nightmare.

[kestrel91316]

47. I've been flying commercial for 35 years. It has only become a complete

embarrassment in the last 10 years. I can't count the completely ruined vacations/trips for me in that time - well, I can. At least 3.

Disgraceful.

[caseymoz]

48. I'll agree the race to the bottom turned into a tailspin since 2001.

Actually, I think it began at the dot-com crash in 1999.

[Politicalboi]

15. That would have drove me nuts

How hard would it be for the airports to have bungalows that they can use in these cases. Just use trams and escort the passengers, leave their luggage on board. There should be cots and free food and a few TV's some with video games. But a secure area. They put a 9/11 tax on tickets over nothing why not a tax on something like this. Or better yet take the phony 9/11 tax and use it for this.

[The Wizard]

17. I refuse to fly

I will not pay good money to be abused and humiliated. If someone wants to see me that bad they can fly, I won't.

[PatSeg]

36. Same here

I haven't flown in almost seven years and no plans to do so in the near future.

[bemildred]

37. Yeah, last time I got on a plane was January 3rd, 2000, and it's great.

Same reason, I refuse to give them money to be abused and treated like cattle.

[Sherman A1]

38. Bingo!

That to me is the answer. I haven't flown since 2001 and have no plans to get on an airplane anytime in the future. There are places I would love to travel to see that require an airplane, but there are places I can see by driving and there are plenty of those.

[Lorien]

52. All the more reason why we need a National High Speed rail system. nt

[Politicub]

18. Why do they keep doing this?

It's insanity.

[mascarax]

19. No excuse for this to keep happening

Similar story as others - Chicago. 4.5 hours trapped, no air, down to 1 toilet that hadn't been plugged up, crying babies, ran out of drinks, etc. Crew had to be changed. Couldn't get off plane. Last time I rode that airline too.

[RoadRage]

20. If you are ever in this situation...

where you are stuck on a plane and the airlines won't let you off, simply call the ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX affiliates in whatever city you are in. Remain calm, and tell them that you are a passanger that has been stuck on the tarmac for 3+ hours and then take pictures and video of the crying babies and over flowing toilets with your camera phone. Then email them to the news stations. I am pretty sure the airline will quickly find a way to get you off of the plane!

[Gormy Cuss]

27. +1

The squeaky wheel and all...

[MissDeeds]

34. Excellent idea

The cable channels love to follow car chases, this would be an even better "unfolding story".

[dysfunctional press]

78. the airlines are big advertisers on the networks...

i don't know how far that would get you.

[Blue_Tires]

88. excellent point...

[rvablue]

100. +1! n/t

[proteus_lives]

21. Nine hours?

I'd have clawed my own eyes out. Scary to even think about,

[Posteritatis]

25. I spent three on a public transit bus in a similarly stupid situation

The driver let the thing get overcrowded (like massively so - normal size bus, maybe three times capacity) after a fireworks display. He figured out that that might be a problem, and called for another bus to take some of the passengers. Apparently if that city's transit requests another bus for that reason they aren't allowed to let any passengers off until it shows up.

I wasn't the picture of glee at work the following morning. Imagine that.

[snagglepuss]

50. That's unbelievable. That is such a stupid policy. I can't believe someone didn't

go ballistic. But by being so strange it is also extremely funny but I sure wouldn't want to be in that situation. Sheesh.

[Posteritatis]

56. There was *much* ballisticality, both then and afterwards

London, ON's transit is condensed ass - the city was hostile to it altogether because poor people and college students, rather than humans, use it - but there were some rusty guillotines taken out after that.

I felt worse for the eight or so baby carriages on the thing, and those weren't the complete baby population. Ugh.

[snagglepuss]

58. "Condensed ass" LOLL.

Very funny post. You should send that to Rick Mercer, it'd be great to lampoon such idiocy. Its really too much: 8 carriages and extra babies to boot and you're trapped. OMG.

edit spelling

[Occulus]

68. I bet it's for liability reasons

Insurance companies strike again.

I'm thinking their insurance wouldn't cover them for incidents involving passengers that willingly leave to bus.

Or the plane.

Insurance companies never want to pay on claims. They only do it because they have to, by law. Our health"care" system is a notorious example.

[snagglepuss]

73. Well if its that is the case they should have forms so passengers can waive liability.

To be trapped on a bus for 3 hours is insane. Its appalling that a bus can detain someone like that. :crazy:

[merwin]

77. What people don't realize is that you have the right to demand

that they let you off. And most likely, there are at least a dozen others feeling the same way but afraid to make the first move.

People are way too compliant when someone says they are an authority... no matter if they have any actual power.

Aside from law enforcement, people have only as much power as you give them.

[Blue_Tires]

87. good point

so many consumers have gotten so used to stuff like this happening that we just accept it as the cost of doing business...

[bad_robbie]

94. Actually, even law enforcement . . .

You just need a much larger number of people to take back your own "authoritay". We have revolutions every so often around this world of ours. On a smaller scale, just having no one cooperate with the man greatly reduces their power.

[stray cat]

103. Do you really think not a single person demanded to be let off - I don't buy it.

[grahampuba]

22. every right to be pissed.

not sure if people here are familiar with Minnesota,
but it is a 50 MINUTE CAR RIDE FROM ROCHESTER TO MSP AIRPORT!!!
47 people would fit neatly on a charter bus, and probably cost less than bringing in a new crew to work overtime.
and on top of that, the storm that they 'avoided' by landing in Rochester, i swear, went about 20 miles north of the MSP airport, it went north of the downtown minneapolis area, and the airport is about 15 miles south.

glad i was not on that plane, because i would have lost it.

[Stumbler]

51. I live in Mpls and was thinking the same thing

I';m sure nobody 'in charge' of that flight knew the delay would last 9 hours, but after the 2nd or 3rd hour, somebody in the chain of command should have wised up. Additionally, I have to agree with and echo what everyone is saying. The race-to-the-bottom, in order to constantly "improve profitability," coupled with the ridiculous post-911 regulations have completely gutted any shred of "customer service" as far as airlines are concerned.

I do like the idea of claiming an on-coming panic attack to get free booze, as mentioned by an earlier poster... I'll have to try that next time I fly and get stuck on the tarmac.

[bemildred]

23. So, if you get on a plane, you enter a prison for an unknown period.

And they wonder why nobody wants to fly.

[llmart]

61. But that's just the thing.......

people ARE still flying. Maybe not as much as before because of the economy, but as was said upthread, people in this country have become so afraid of making any waves in situations like this (think "sheeple") that they just sit there and take it. We need some people with guts to speak up and make a fuss until the airlines stop their ridiculous ways, which includes making you pay to check luggage or buy a seat.

[bemildred]

63. Not flying is safer, and cheaper, and less stressful.

So unless you REALLY have no choice about it, that seems better than picking a fight with authoritarian fools. I'm not really that interested in fixing the airlines, they can go bankrupt and die and it means nothing to me.

[Grinchie]

28. This is too funny.

It's "Safer" to keep people imprisioned inside a plane, than to wake up a single TSA agent for some overtime.

OMG, he might have earned Time and a Half! or $14.00 an hour !

Good grief, the anal compulsive regulation freaks are taking over the country.

Sorry sir, my rulebook says that your so called freedom does not supercede my ability to keep you imprisioned for hours.

Sure does make you wanna fly, huh?

As is my habit for commenting on this idiocy, here's a post that demonstrates how I feel about our Fearless Leaders idea of Security. I saw a 65 year old woman harrassed for her Hip Implant after stating clearly that she had one to the special screener. The person wanding her was a robot, and paid no attention to thing she said. Finally, the woman dropped her pants and displayed the 10 inch scar on her leg to the idiot screener.

Oh, and how did I come up with $14.00 and hour? Well, I picked up a job posting for TSA Screeners at UH Hilo job fair out of curiosity. Starting wage was $7.37 an hour. Assuming full employment, thats 15,329 Gross Wages. Now take out 30% for withholding and you end up with a whopping 10,730 dollars a year. I feel so safe and secure that these TSA Screeners are paid enough to not have to work a second or third job to survive :sarcasm: $894 dollars a month is More than adequate to live on in Hawaii, Right?, just ask the average social security recipient. Just as long as they own their own house and rent out one of the rooms. People are so naive to be suckered in by this sort of slave wage. Middle class? hah hah hah hah. What middle class?


TSA Gangstaz

[MadMaddie]

57. Think about this these "Security screeners are getting starting

wages at $7.37 an hour and lets say hypothetically the person is having a rough time and some shady character pays them $$$$$$$$ to overlook something in baggage.....are we truely better off then we were?

The whole system is flawed and the US government played right into OBL hands and no one will say it outloud.

Do I feel safe flying? No. Unfortunately, I live on the West Coast and my family lives down south and I have to go home so it sucks to be me.

[Grinchie]

64. Michael Moore made a similar point to mine recently

Regarding Airline Pilots.. I believe it was on Larry King, and Moore told the audience the slave wage the pilots of these cut rate airlines were getting.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=13894

I am unfamiliar with the term OBL.

[MadMaddie]

74. Not only the slave wages the pilots are getting at the cut rate

airlines but the training is inferiour. They are also allowing some pilots who should not be flying because they failed examinations, they let them fly anyway.

OBL- Osama Bin Laden

[SomeGuyInEagan]

106. Moore was writing about that years ago in "Downsize This!" ...

... published back in 1997. He wrote about airline pilots who had to have part-time jobs to make ends meet.

Imagine - as a passenger in a small airplane - overhearing the pilot say to the co-pilot, "Hope we get a tail wind ... I've got the 4 - midnight shift at the Pizza Ranch tonight."

[high density]

31. How can chartering a bus "not work out?"

There must be a few different bus companies they could've called. Even if they had to wait a couple hours for the bus to arrive, that would've beat sitting on the plane for that amount of time.

I couldn't imagine being in this situation. I'm surprised crew members haven't been assaulted or killed yet in these held hostage on the apron situations.

[Grinchie]

33. I guess people didn't get the connection of GM to Bus companies

Apparently, they ran the Yellow Coach company in the early part of last century, and had a majority stake in Greyhound too.

I think those days may be over, and the bus companies will have to make it on their own without subsidies from GM, GMAC, or whatever else they had their fingers in.

[Serial Mom]

40. Please explain why halfway across the country is on a commuter jet?

Oh, I forgot! Corps must save money, improve profits, pay a pilot less money and not service the customers in any way.

From Houston to Minneapolis is just a puddle jump away!

:sarcasm:

[Psephos]

69. Smaller carbon footprint + greater load factor (i.e., more cost-efficient)

I don't see the problem.

I rather like commuter jets, anyway. :) I feel more like I'm flying and less like I'm on a bus.

[Serial Mom]

92. But a LOT less pilot experience...

Last 2 commuter jets that went down were totally due to pilot error, inexeperience and lack of full scenario training - one (Buffalo flight) didn't even know to push forward during problem and pulled back instead and caused immediate peril with no chance of recovery. BTW, it was reported co-pilot was paid approx $24,000/yr! I want my pilot's to have a decent, livable wage scale and full training besides pilot "hours" of flying.

see http://www.cleveland.com/schultz/index.ssf/2009/05/commuter_airlines_underpaid_pi.html
During the hearings, we heard that co-pilot Rebecca Shaw, who died with 49 others in February's fiery plane crash in Buffalo, earned less than $16,200 when she started with Colgan Airlines, a carrier that flies regionally for Continental Airlines.

A Colgan vice president said that Shaw once augmented her salary with a second job at a coffee shop.

No, no, no, another Colgan official later insisted. The 24-year-old Shaw made a whopping $23,900.

So, Shaw made a few thousand dollars more than someone working for minimum wage, but not as much as helpful clerks who sell paint -- who, to my knowledge, are never responsible for human lives.

I feel much better now.

The hearings were full of surprises. Shaw's paltry salary wasn't unusual for pilots of regional planes. Nor was her long commute unusual. Shaw and Capt. Marvin Renslow, who was 47 and made $67,000, had to travel hundreds of miles to work and probably were tired when they slid into the cockpit in New Jersey. Many pilots, we learned, violate company policy by actually napping in airport crew lounges.

Training is an issue, too. Renslow had failed flight checks in the aircraft five times before he passed. He also reportedly did not know the emergency procedures to prevent the aircraft from stalling, which is what happened during their doomed flight.

[Psephos]

96. So the fix is to shift to better pilots

I'm ALL for that. :)

[a la izquierda]

42. I. Hate. Flying.

It is a nightmarish experience at this point. If I had been stuck for 9 hours, I'd have opened the damn emergency doors and gotten outta dodge. I'd rather have driven home...

[caseymoz]

46. Airline travel has become so bad

I'm surprised that any airline runs anymore. I remember in the eighties when the "de-regulated" the industry. It hasn't worked right since.

[dgibby]

49. The day I retired from the Navy was the day I vowed never to fly again.

So far, I haven't broken that vow and that was in '91. Hell, I don't even like to go pick people up at the airport!

[geckosfeet]

53. As if I needed more reasons NOT to fly Continental airlines.

[JBoy]

55. Wow, and Continental is supposed to be one of the better airlines!

[FarCenter]

59. The decline began with the Airlines Deregulation Act of 1978

If you deregulate an industy that has high fixed costs and high labor costs, the result will be a period where the new entrants will undercut the established players with newer airplanes and cheaper labor and drive them out of business.

This is followed by a second phase of cutthroat competition where everybody prices so low they can't cover their depreciation and debt payments.

The result should be that so many airlines go out of business that the industry gets down to about 3 companies. At that point, the strongest of the 3 raises prices and the other 2 follow in an informal division of the market.

It isn't clear why the consolidation to 3 companies hasn't happened yet, although it is getting to the point that on many routes there are only three companies.

[caseymoz]

67. You got that right. Of the many great de-regulatory disasters

Few have matched the airline industry. If it weren't for all the organized propaganda efforts, the idea of de-regulated capitalism would have been relegated to the trashcan of history twenty years ago.

Except for the fact that they began to de-regulate the media.

[dysfunctional press]

79. "it is getting to the point that on many routes there are only three companies."

actually, it's GOTTEN to the point that on many routes there are only two companies.

[Jkid]

60. That's why I'm planning to use Amtrak wherever possible.

Even if it means waiting for, I don't know, a bunch of freight trains.

[smirkymonkey]

113. Even so, Amtrak at least has a fully stocked bar for those rare

annoying moments!

[Stuart G]

62. If I recall, Continental and Northwest have done this before, but it

was last year sometime.
I doubt that would have happened some more consumer friendly airlines.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

66. Here is how a sketchy airline in Africa handled a two hour flight delay

Flight delayed because fuel truck didn't show up, a bus pulled up next to the plane and we were taken to a western style restaurant in town and provided a meal when the plane was ready the bus took us right back to the plane which departed immediately.

[Psephos]

70. Exactly how it should be done.

But Congress and the Department of Homeland Security think differently.

As has been noted before, we don't have air travel security, we have air travel security theater.

[NoSheep]

71. You've got that right. It is Theater to be sure!

[Blue_Tires]

72. i would have gotten cabin fever long before the 9 hours was halfway over

even Aeroflot would laugh at this shady incompetence...

[Blue_Tires]

75. a couple of good questions in the comments section...

first: was the flight crew allowed to leave? or did they have to stay?

second: i know very little about Minnesota and nothing about Rochester, but don't airports have some sort of emergency, on-call skeleton staff they can call at times like this? at least let them get off the plane -- call in whoever you need to call in to screen the passengers (i don't give a shit if they got to get paid double time or whatever)...OR god forbid let them in the airport without screening (who is going to blow up a deserted regional airport in the middle of the night?)...


The airline bigwigs and the airport authority need to be out of a fucking job Monday morning, for lack of common sense -- whoever the buck stopped with on the decision to make the passengers stay in that plane should have to answer for him or herself in public...and the TSA needs to revise the glitches in their regulation book...Isn't there some kind of provision somewhere in the "best interests of passenger safety?" What was safe about keeping them on a racid, stuffy, shit-and-piss smelling small airplane with no air circulation?

[JeanGrey]

84. Utterly ridiculous. I'd sue their ass off.

[onager]

89. Sometimes it happens to the "right" people...

Back in the Nineties, my company was trying to get a big job in Taiwan. So a group of us Drones went over ahead of the Big Wheels, to make sure they weren't traumatized by doing, you know, any actual WORK or anything.

"Yes sir, that's a new invention called a microphone. No, you plug the SMALL end into here and talk into that BIG end..."

The Big Wheels would occasionally deign to wave to us in an airport, as they were boarding First Class with their traveling wives/mistresses/secretaries (often the same woman).

So our Northworst flight gets to Taipei airport and has to circle for a while, because that airport is often fogged in during winter. We eventually landed with no problems.

The Big Wheels were coming on a Northworst flight behind us. By the time they arrived, Taipei airport was totally socked in with fog and all flights were being diverted.

They got diverted to...HA!...Okinawa. A large island that hosts a U.S. Marine Corps base. They were not allowed off the plane because of Customs etc. rules. As we heard later (repeatedly), they had already eaten/drunk all the food. So all of our corporate Big Wheels spent the night in their airline seats, wrapped in blue blankies, on board the plane. On the tarmac in Okinawa.

Making it even better - by that time the crew had exceeded its flight hours. So next morning, all the Big Wheels got a free flight to Japan to change flight crews. They couldn't get off the plane there, either.

For once, I got to see some justice in action!

**************************************************************************************************************************

Bonus Rant - Fear Me, I Am On The Terrorist Watch List...

Last week I took my first domestic flight in over 4 years. It really sucked!

I've been working in Egypt for the past few years, so my only flights were Cairo-USA, via Frankfurt on Lufthansa. My cheap-ass employer is, at least, generous enough to fly us Business Class when we are crossing major oceans.

I live in Los Angeles, had to go to Baltimore for some corporate training. When I tried to do On-Line Check-in, I could not.

Got to the airport and tried to print a Boarding Pass from the little kiosk. Didn't work. Got a message to "See Attendant at Check-in Counter."

When I was trying to leave Baltimore, same thing happened. I collared the Roving Ticket Agent around the kiosks at the airport, and he entered some Super-Secret Code and tried to print a boarding pass.

Failed. He said - "I don't know why this isn't working. Unless maybe you're on a Watch List because you have a common name. And have you spent any time in the Middle East?"

"6 years, two years in Saudi Arabia and 4 years in Egypt."

"Uh...oh. Yeah. That might do it..."

When I finally got to the check-in counter, sure enough, the agent filled out a form and called over one of the TSA guys hanging around to sign it.

That's pretty rich. I was in the Middle East because I work for a major aerospace-defense contractor. And as for my common name, it's not Ahmed, Abdul or Mohammed. But a common English name.

Yep, that makes me feel really confident about Homeland Security...

:rofl:

[mbperrin]

91. "The alternative of chartering a bus didn't work out. " Why? No buses

in Minnesota? All the drivers were on vacation? Airlines' credit card maxed out?

This is nothing reporting. One line straight from the airline. Didn't work out.

Haven't flown since 1981, when Reagan fired all the experienced controllers. Haven't missed it at all.

[closeupready]

97. When people ask me why I don't travel anymore, this stuff is why.

Not going to take the chance that anything like this happens to me.

[rd_kent]

98. Is it possible to classify this as unlawful detention?

If the plane is on the ground, then a crew is not needed to get it to the gate. Ground crew can just tow it up and allow passengers to unload.

[midnight armadillo]

105. I would call it kidnapping

Christ, no one on the plane thought to call the police and report the airline as kidnapping them? Or call the local media and have TV crews outside?

Or fuck, how about kicking open the damn door and using the emergency slide?

[Initech]

99. I was trapped on a plane for six hours due to a DFW shutdown.

Although the shutdown was due to weather problems, there's nothing they can do about that. I cant imagine overnight... that would be pure fuckin' hell.

[Javaman]

101. Huh, this is one time where it would have been to your advantage

to be a belligerent obnoxious drunk.

Seems like that would have been the only reason these morons would have kicked you off the plane.

[rebecca_herman]

107. I would have freaking lost it

I'm extremely claustrophobic on planes, part of the reason I haven't flown in years. I probably would have had a nervous breakdown and ended up in the hospital. Those poor, poor people, someone at the airline should suffer for this.

[RamboLiberal]

112. Continental lied about a lot of this as well

"For the life of me I don't understand why they didn't come to the terminal," Steven Leqve, manager of the Rochester Airport, said today. Even in the overnight hours on Friday and into Saturday, Delta Air Lines had three people onsite, and the airport had one employee there as well.

"It doesn't take much to bring an airplane up to the gate," Leqve said.

According to a Rochester airport release today, the Delta Air Lines manager in Rochester asked the Continental dispatcher at MSP if the passengers should come to the terminal. The Continental dispatcher allegedly said to keep the passengers on the plane while they waited for word on weather.

The plane was going to take off again at 2 a.m., but that was also canceled due to new weather conditions.

An ExpressJet spokesperson also claimed they couldn't bring the passengers to the terminal because there were no TSA screeners. That just don't even make sense to anyone that has had a connecting flight and doesn't go through security again.

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2009/08/rochester_airpo.php

I also read in an AP report this morning that Northwest bussed 50 of their passengers on a bus to Minneapolis from Rochester and even offered the dimbulbs at Continental seats on the bus for this flight's passengers. Guess Northwest might have learned their lesson from their past hostage taking. Their passengers got to Minneapolis on the bus at 1:30am.

And found this.

Airline spokesperson Kristy Nicholas said "four or five bus companies were called" to carry passengers to Minneapolis, but none was available due to lack of buses and "flooding in the area."

KARE 11 checked with both the Minnesota Department of Transportation and the Minnesota State Patrol and neither has records of any roads being closed or inaccessible due to flooding on Friday night.

"The bus thing is absolutely incredulous," said airline expert Terry Trippler. "I mean I just can't believe that in all of the upper Midwest there wasn't a bus."

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=821818

Airport manager Steven Leqve refutes the claim, noting that a Delta flight was also redirected to Rochester because of weather, but it deplaned passengers at 3:30 a.m. Saturday.

While screeners had gone home for the night, passengers could have come into a secure area of the building, Leqve said.

"If it were my decision, I would have deplaned the passengers and let them mill about the building," he said.

But decisions about what to do with passengers ultimately lie with the airline, he said.

http://www.startribune.com/local/52890542.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUF

[BloggerBob]

116. A Word From TSA

Good day! Blogger Bob here from the TSA Blog. Many feel this incident occurred due to TSA regulations, and I’m just popping into forums around the web and blogosphere to clear things up a bit. I posted the following yesterday on the TSA Blog:

Due to thunderstorms, a flight bound for Minneapolis on Friday, August 7, was diverted to Rochester, Minnesota. Passengers were stuck inside the plane for several hours after ExpressJet made the decision not to deplane.

Earlier today, there were media reports that led some to believe TSA regulations prevented the passengers from deplaning.

TSA does not make decisions on whether or not passengers can deplane. We do however have the ability to recall our officers and open a checkpoint at the request of an airline or airport. No requests were made by ExpressJet on Friday or Saturday. The checkpoint resumed normal operations at 4:30 a.m. on Saturday.

Also, passengers did not need to be screened or rescreened to deplane and re-board as long as they didn’t exit past the checkpoint and leave the non-screened sterile area of the airport.

Please note the airline has since publically apologized to the passengers.

Thanks,

Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
http://www.tsa.gov/blog

[AngryOldDem]

117. Why weren't they just put on a bus and driven to Minneapolis?

Beyond crazy.