2 Thrown Out Of Heated Meeting On Health Care Reform

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NewsNet5

Usually a meeting called by your local congressperson only draws a few loyal constituents, but on Wednesday, Rep. Marcia Fudge became the latest Democrat to face friends and foes over President Barack Obama's health care reform plan.

-----

"We have been trying to fix health care for more than 60 years. And we are going to fix it," Fudge said.

With that, Fudge dropped all pretenses that this was a state of the district meeting and took on the topic of health care reform.

She also made it clear right off the bat that disruptions would not be allowed.

Anyone who attempted to engage Fudge before the question-and-answer period was quickly shown the door.

Case Western Reserve University police said two opponents of reform were ejected for being disorderly.



Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/news/20378642/detail.html

---

Good job Rep Fudge!

[ejpoeta]

1. that's what they need to do at all of these meetings. make it clear that only respectful, honest

discussion would be allowed and any shouting or talking over any one else would not be allowed. and then anyone who acts up or starts shouting or chanting or anything else should be ousted immediately. that should help to calm the people who want to cause trouble. if you let it go... it will get worse. treat them like children in a classroom.... you have to nip that stuff in the bud or lose control.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

102. EXACTLY EXACTLY!

a thousand times, EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!


Hope this basic rule of group facilitation gets reviewed before every meeting.

[Zorra]

Tough love for squalling little spoiled brats works well. Too bad their parents

didn't teach them how to behave better.

[LaPera]

27. Good call!

[HughMoran]

2. Good for her

The heck with the angry knuckleheads.

[elocs]

3. It's about time!!! What took so long? n/t

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

119. +1

[Warpy]

4. That's what they need to do at all these meetings.

It's about time somebody developed the stones to insist on order from these howling morons.

(and yes, women have 2 of them, just not kept out where they can be snipped off)

[No Elephants]

84. Marcia Fudge grew "stones?" Doubt it. That would be a much bigger story than this one.

Too bad people can't talk about things like courage (or in this case, common sense) without referring to genitalia.

BTW, hemaphrodites may have testicles, but women do not. They have ovaries. Ovaries do not equal testicles. http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testicle

[Warpy]

97. Overies and testicles are both gonads

which is what the reference is to.

Don't argue basic anatomy with medical people. You'll lose.

As for growing a pair, obviously they've shriveled to nothing among the rest of the Democratic Congressmen out there. Perhaps I should have stipulated "regrow."

[No Elephants]

98. Arms and legs are all limbs, but my arm is not the same as my leg. You did

not say women have gonads, you said they had stones, aka nuts. They don't.

Don't argue with someone who can read and distinguish apples from oranges. You'll lose.

And, while I don't usually point out spelling errors, if you are indeed a medical person, you should spell ovaries correctly. Especially when the word was spelled correctly in the post to which you replied.

[imdjh]

5. yay

[Vidar]

6. Good for her!

[joecool65]

7. Why is ever pol not doing this?

Simple enough, you act like an idiot, see ya later!
If you refuse to leave, you will be arrested.

[FourScore]

75. That's exactly what I said! n/t

[indimuse]

8. Now THIS is

how ya di it! 'bout time....



KNR!

[Edweird]

9. Good for her. I wish all Dems handled it like this.

[Triana]

10. I've been saying all along - they CAN control this.

And this is a good example of how to do it.

[Joanne98]

11. They should have arrested them.

[ManiacJoe]

24. On what charge?

[PSzymeczek]

30. Disorderly Conduct. n/t

[GodlyDemocrat]

79. Disorderly Conduct is the most unconstitutional and most abused law on the books

An arrest would have galvanized the right, and depending on the circumstances, some on the left.

[No Elephants]

85. How about trespassing then? The purpose of the meeting was for Ms.

Fudge to dialogue with her constituents, so that her constituents could get from her information about health insurance reform and also so that they could make their thoughts known to her. Chanting, etc. prevents that. No one was invited to do that. If you exceed the scope of your invitation, you are trespassing. People who wanted to chant or demonstrate should have done so outside, first obtaining whatever permits (if any) might be required by law.

BTW, disorderly conduct laws are not all unconstitutional. It depends upon how they are are worded and how they are applied.

"An arrest would have galvanized..." That is your supposition. You don't actually know what an arrest, properly carried out, would have done. If these people had not been escorted out, someone may have supposed and posted that throwing disrupters out of the meeting would have triggered some negative consequence or other. Doesn't make it true.

Besides, galvanized people is fine. It's what people do about being galvanized that makes a difference. If they behave unlawfully after being galvanized, they can go to jail.

As far as I know, the SCOTUS has never held any Constitutional right to be absolute, with one exception. The exception is your absolute right to hold--in your own mind--whatever religious belief you want. That right was declared absolute in a case which said Mormon men had an absolute right to believe in multiple marriage, but the state could jail them for bigamy if they married more than one woman. (I think that was the very first freedom of religion case the SCOTUS ever decided.)

[GodlyDemocrat]

108. Dr. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct merely for expressing himself

The are other stories I can cite of political expression being tagged as disorderly conduct.

I have no problem with the expulsion of spectators for violating stated rules. But an arrest for speech is something I have never been comfortable with.

BTW, I had posted a thread earlier asking why Dr. Gates was arrested and some of these protestors have not been. But honestly, I would hope that disorderly conduct arrests are done very sparingly in cases surrounding expression.

[Javaman]

88. sniff sniff...nt

[GodlyDemocrat]

111. Oh, grow up ...

:eyes:

[Javaman]

114. sniff sniff. nt

[GodlyDemocrat]

115. Again, grow up

:eyes:

[zbdent]

26. Because they spout the RW cause, they'd become martyrs and media darlings if they were arrested ...

If they were Dems at a Repuke fest ... they'd be as welcome to the media as Michael Jackson at a Molested Child Group Encounter meeting ...

[No Elephants]

89. I agree, except that this was not a Dem fest. This was a meeting by a Congressional

Representative for all her constituents, Democratic, Republican, unenrolled, Green, whatevewr.

[zbdent]

110. and they were warned of the consequences at the beginning ...

if they truly wanted a dialogue, and they were tossed out, then they would have had a complaint. Nobody was arrested.

Since they wanted to be Town Hall Screamers ... and not listen to what she said before the Q & A period, where they could address the issues ... they were shown the door.

[BlueIdaho]

12. Its about time!

What on earth makes these thugs think their rudeness is more important than than a respectful discussion of the issues? It has been a BIG mistake for our elected officials to put up with these greedy tantrums.

[MetaTrope]

13. Love the headline...over 400 people attending, and two thrown out?

Do I see a skew to the "news" coverage? Sort of like when headlines focussed on 20 protesting students among the 2,000 graduating when Obama was at Notre Dame?

Suck it up, news media, you're on the way out.

[goclark]

14. Yea for America! Keep it up! nt

[cap]

34. so, when we had millions of people around the world protesting against the war

all we heard on the news was the sound of one hand clapping.

And when we get Republican led protests, we hear about every last one of them.

[No Elephants]

86. Excellent point.

[No Elephants]

90. There was lots of "skew to that article.

"What was billed as" "dropped all pretense," etc. This is the time of year that the Reps have "state of the district meetings. There is no reason to suppose that Fudge did not originally intend to cover more than health insurance reform in that meeting.

The media make me sick. The Framers would turn over in their graves to learn what has become of the freedom of the press.

[cabluedem]

15. about time. nt

[chollybocker]

16. Now I know why they're so stupid;

they spent half their school days down at the Principal's office.

Little Bullie can't read, or write, or formulate a thought of his own...

[ScottLand]

17. Excellent!

The right-wing is trying to say they're crushing free speech, but as usual they don't get it. Free speech - good. Disorderly conduct - bad. Remember, the Bushies didn't tolerate ANY opposition in public.

[No Elephants]

91. No one was even allowed in unless they were (or were assumed to be) Bush supporters.

If you so much as wore a Democratic T Shirt, you were kicked out, at best, or arrested. Not to mention that the whole thing was staged.

Daily Show has been showing videos comparing the current town halls with the Bush staged town halls on privatizing Social Security (while paying Wall Street a bundle for the "burden" of all that extra business), a much more controversial subject than affordable health care. The contrast would be hilarious, if you don't care about either Social Security or health care. But, that would probably make you a Republican.

[ScottLand]

100. Funny how they choreographed

every move Bush made and he still looked like an idiot! Off topic I know, but I couldn't resist.

[JBoy]

18. LOL. It sounds so simple. All it took was a little backbone.

[frylock]

19. and that's how you do it!

this is not a first ammendment issue, as the aholes would have you believe. toss these idiots out on their fuggin ear.

[mnhtnbb]

20. I wonder if her staff picked up the idea from DU. We've been saying this

since it started: set out the ground rules regarding disruptions and then escort people out
if they don't comply.

[Anakin Skywalker]

21. Rightwing Old Farts

Many of these anti-reform scumbags are actually sucking off of Social Security (not quite the proud, "I don't need the gov't individualists that they claim to be). That's how they have all this free time to read all the misleading propaganda by the corporate machines and go protest. There's a lot of irony in this whole Health Care Reform issue if a person pays attention.

[llmart]

25. Very, very true.......

I personally know one who is without health care coverage now and he just doesn't get it. See, it really isn't about health insurance coverage at all. It's about their sour grapes that President Obama and the Democrats have a mandate and won big time and they are losing their perceived power.

[PSzymeczek]

31. It's also about the fact that the guy in the White House

isn't white. Hence, the "I want my country back."

[SharonAnn]

70. Native American Indians also want their country back. Hasn't worked for them, either.

[CBHagman]

32. Now, now, there are fools of various ages.

Some of these mouthy types are by no stretch of the imagination receiving Social Security.

[glinda]

72. Are they getting paid at all? These people can't be going State to State for free.

[DainBramaged]

22. Fudge sent them packing......

:silly:

[valerief]

23. Bad bad bad bad!

:spank:

[loyalkydem]

28. Now watch

they are going to go on fox noise and complain

[Tim01]

29. The disruptions should be clamped down.

Yelling at someone during a meeting is not free speech.

[Seldona]

33. I agree with just about everyone here.

It is about time!

[slackmaster]

35. That is EXACTLY how it is done in a well-run meeting

Good on her!

[slampoet]

36. Ejected but not arrested because they weren't Black Professors.

[keitai]

37. ???

Why hasn't this been the case from the start? The pro reform lobby should have had a strategy involving this from day one. The wingnuts did this during the Clinton health reform effort so you couldn't say this wasn't predictable. I thought the 'new' Democratic party was great with organization?

[yawnimawke]

38. Way to go!

Fantastic! That is the way to handle the Health Care issue!:yourock:

[Divine Discontent]

61. Welcome to DU, yawnimawke!

Hope your stay is permanent and enjoyable!

:hi:

[yawnimawke]

63. Thanks!

Actually, I've been a fan of Top 10 Conservative Idiots for a few years. I finally took the plunged and logged in! I hope I don't make a fool of myself!

[No Elephants]

92. If, by chance, you do make a fool of yourself, you'll fit right in with the rest of us, so don't

worry about it one little bit.

Welcome. :hi:

[Divine Discontent]

118. oh, you certainly will.. we all do.

I was so nervous in the general discussion forums when I first went into them. I stayed in LBN forum for some time to avoid too much argumentation! ha... then I got brave. I've had a half dozen OP's on the front page I'd guess, so I'm glad I eventually got 'brave', ha... best to you, and yes, Top 10 Conservative Idiots is so funny!

[Son Of Wendigo]

39. The Brown Shirts

I'm a little weak on early 1930's German history, but I seem to recall that Hitler had his own private army of thugs called the SA, the Sturm Abteilung, Storm Troopers, who performed much the same services for Hitler that these current thugs are doing in the town hall meetings. These guys wore a distinctive uniform which led to them being called "Brown Shirts." They would attend meetings and rallies held by opposition parties and vigorously disrupt them. They also did more, such as fight with the legitimate attendees, break the places up, and so on. Outside of meetings, they would damage or destroy property belong to the opposition parties, and were not averse to severely beating, and occasionally killing, opponents.

We are on the brink of going down this same road here. The hatred and threats are becoming more overt. It's only a matter of time before someone hurt or killed. There were two guys with guns at the President's town hall meeting. One guy had a license to carry a loaded firearm and had his in a holster. He was also carrying a sign which had on it the same Thomas Jefferson quote that was on Timothy McVea's t-shirt, that the tree of liberty needed to be nourished from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. He was breaking no laws and was not interfered with, but was filmed by the media.

The other guy had managed to get into the school some time before the President got there armed with a knife. When the Secret Service caught him, they got a search warrant for his truck and found a loaded pistol which was not licensed. He is in jail now, facing both local and Federal charges.

The Democrats who want to hold meetings should do the same as Rep Fudge, and more. The thugs should not just be ejected for being disorderly, they should be arrested. This is a misdemeanor in most jurisdictions. Thugs who make threats or lay hands on other attendees, should be arrested for making terrorist threats or battery, respectively. I personally believe that all attendees coming to a town hall meeting should be required to show some documentation to show that they live in the Representative's district.

[Sophree]

68. You're exactly right

And i've been thinking the same thing- they're just like the Nazi Brown Shirts of the late 20s and early 30s. They weren't interested in debate, their only goal was intimidation through violence and the shutting down of political opponents. William Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is a great book to read if anyone wants to brush up on that time period and the Nazi Regime. The similarities to our wing nuts are eerie.

BTW, Hitler turned on the Brown Shirts eventually. He didn't care about them. They were just violent little pawns in the big power grab. Evil always turns on itself.

[Son Of Wendigo]

113. Sharks

Thanks for your clarifying remarks.

A group of sharks in a feeding frenzy will sometimes bite one another.

[JDPriestly]

76. I'm not an expert, but I am fairly strong on my German history, and you are right.

And please check out the Beer Hall Putsch. They came armed but otherwise used the tactics being used in the town hall meetings.

Please note the difference between the liberal protests and these teabagger disturbances. Liberal protests arise from a commitment to nonviolence in the tradition of Ghandi and Martin Luther King. These teabagger disturbances are just emotional outbursts coming from a more violent source within those participating. There is no similar tradition of nonviolent protest in the right-wing groups. The most nonviolent of right-wing protests in our country were those regarding Terry Schiavo. The anti-abortion protests have resulted in quite a bit of violence.

Some of the liberal protests in the 1960s ended in destroyed property, and the anarchists who are not really liberal became violent in the Seattle demonstrations, but in general liberals prefer peaceful protests.

[Son Of Wendigo]

112. Nonviolent Protests

I am a Quaker and am completely committed to nonviolence.

I often think about the Kent State and Jackson State massacres, which occurred within a few days of each other, back when positions were reversed in the 60's. Under Nixon, who ran a violent administration, a total of six people were killed and at least ten were wounded by the National Guard. Some weren't even protesters, but just students going about their business on these campuses. The victims were young, and those who actually were demonstrating were doing so peacefully.

I am afraid that sooner or later, one of these teabaggers is going to be overcome by his or her rage and seriously hurt or kill someone. I pray it doesn't happen, but I think it is likely.

[JDPriestly]

116. I worry about that too. People who do not express themselves well

verbally are particularly prone to violence of various kinds, domestic violence for example. I have seen that quite often.

These teabaggers are not able to think through or articulate their grounds for protesting. They only seem to repeat catch phrases they have heard from someone else. That suggests to me that they are not able to think critically or express themselves well. Their frustrations are very pent-up, and they don't know what do with them. They don't have the patience to inform themselves about the causes of the economic crisis or about what the proposed health care reform will mean for them and their families. It's very sad to see people with a self-serving, radical political agenda taking advantage of them. Sooner or later, someone will be hurt. And the right-wingers who are egging these people on know exactly what they are aiming for. The instigators of this, those who are manipulating these people are shameful.

[Algorem]

40. Two thrown out of Marcia Fudge's district meeting

Source: plain dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Police removed two people who attended U.S. Rep. Marcia Fudge's congressional district address at the Ford Auditorium on the campus of Case Western Reserve University, which is behind held right now.

Police forceably removed a man who shouted about killing old people just before 7. Another was also removed.

Fudge spoke for 30 minutes, which drew a lot of applause and some boos. Detracters settled down after those two were thrown out.

No signs are allowed in the building...



Read more: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/08/marcia_fudges_district_meeting.html

[Ian David]

41. SOYLENT OBAMA IS OLD PEOPLE! IT'S MADE FROM OLD PEOPLE! n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

50. but it's good!

[Javaman]

55. Tastes like chicken. nt

[high density]

59. kills two birds with one stone

1. cost of keeping old people alive
2. inflation in food costs

[Paladin]

42. Glad To See That Some Of These Jerks Are Being Dealt With. (n/t)

[demosincebirth]

43. Some of these wingers are so stupid to believe the shit that has

been coming from the right. It is beyond me! I seen a "moran" the other day with a sign telling his rep to "keep the Gov't out of my Medicare!" You figure...

[harmonicon]

47. if I had been drinking then, I would have spat water everywhere

*boom* (my brain explodes)

[LeftishBrit]

56. OMG, even I know the goverment is responsible for Medicare, and I'm not even American

Was it Bush, or one of his supporters, who said that the Democrats wanted to run Social Security 'as if it were a government programme'?

[demosincebirth]

58. Thats their mentality.

[Sophree]

65. It was Bush

who said that. I don't think there's a day that goes by that I thank God that that idiot is not President any more. Unfortunately we still have to deal with the ignorance he represented. Bush was a product of that culture, not the cause of it.

:banghead:

edit: typo

[No Elephants]

93. I hope to God he was a Democrat, pointing out the stupidity, or giving the rep

an opportunity to point it out. In fact, we should all show up at these meetings with that same sign, preferably with several misspellings.

[EFerrari]

44. Good going!

[nashville_brook]

45. "Detracters settled down after those two were thrown out." ...imagine that.

[pattmarty]

46. What all these ass holes seem to forget, that all through Bush's..............

................8 miserable years, PEACEFUL "left wing" protesters were actually fucking JAILED, called traitors and had absolutely NO representation on network or cable television. So, fuck these two disruptive ass holes who were released as soon as they were outside. Shit, if one of us had worn a gun (western style) to a Bush event we would have been given the death penalty without a trial. These people are pieces of shit, pure and simple and should be dealt with with that in mind.

[goclark]

73. No one would dare do this and not be put out during the Bush years

that I can recall.

Let's get some footage.

[ScottLand]

48. I believe in free speech

but it's no pass for disorderly conduct.

[jimshoes]

49. Fudge replaced Stephanie Tubbs Jones

So she's probably fairly new to Town Hall meetings. Glad things didn't get out of control. Stephanie Tubbs Jones passed away last year.

[Control-Z]

51. Excellent.

This is the first I've heard of any of them being thrown out. I hope it's the start of a trend.

[omega minimo]

74. a trend of stopping those engaged in "disorderly conduct"

Ya mean there's actually a term for it? :thumbsup: :hi:
:sarcasm:

[Berry Cool]

52. It was a GREAT meeting!

I was there. Everything was under control all the way through. The cops and security people from Case had everything well in hand. No signs were allowed inside, so all the teabaggers with signs had to stay outside. A bunch of teabaggers without signs sat themselves right in the middle, and the second the one guy started yelling about killing old people, he was shouted down briefly by the crowd and the cops were on him. It was made clear that anyone who couldn't express themselves politely at the appropriate time (during Q & A after she spoke) would be removed. No shouting and interruptions were tolerated.

She even addressed the "killing old people" calmly and rationally after he was removed. She also addressed a lot of other nonsense, with FACTS. Dissenters were permitted to line up to ask questions with everyone else, and she answered them, but no shouting and chanting and disruption took place, because it simply wasn't allowed.

It was a model of how these forums should be held, everywhere. Whatever playbook the people were using tonight should be used everywhere, all the time.

I came out and saw the remaining teabaggers had all retreated across the street with their big poster of Obama's face with the Hitler mustache. Cowards.

[Kolesar]

57. Put that post in your DU Journal

:hi:

[bjobotts]

71. Thanks for your update.Amazes me that these people are even listening to those who brought us the l

last 8yrs of economic destruction as if they 'Now' have a way out of the mess they created. Will these people ever say "I better not listen to you anymore after what you've done to our nation the past 8yrs...I think I'll try another way for a change." If only huh...

[No Elephants]

96. Hitler mustache? The same people who said we were supposed to respect "the office," even if

we despised what Bush did in that office? My, my. Disorderly hypocrisy.

Thanks for the good info about the meeting. Nice to have the full story. Too bad the media covered only the disruption, eh?

[thelordofhell]

53. How do you stop a bully?

Stand up to them and don't take any of their shit.

[Sub Atomic]

54. Personally I prefer a baseball bat to the head.

YMMV

[Cha]

60. "No signs allowed in the meeting"..that

probably was a good start so the idiots couldn't misspell their lies.

[earcandle]

62. Go Girl! That's Democracy at work!

[derby378]

64. THAT'S how it's done, Congresscritters...

Well done! :applause:

[euphoria12leo]

66. Why Don't The Others Do The Same?

Good for Rep Fudge. As for Arlen Specter, he couldn't control my shitzu. The idiots ran
over him.

[keepthemhonest]

67. I guess the politicians should all follow her lead

She did a great job keeping it orderly.Although she definately had the security to back her up

[Iwillnevergiveup]

69. WE WON!

K&R

[No Elephants]

87. Everyone present for a proper purpose won, Democrat or Republican.

[Canuckistanian]

77. There, was that so hard?

These meetings are usually held on private or town properties. The person who runs the meetings can eject anyone who's causing a disturbance.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

80. Nice to See This FINALLY Happening!

If people can't be civil in public, they ought to be shown the door. Kudos to Rep. Fudge!

[Vinca]

81. That's the way to handle it.

If a person can't act in a civilized manner, throw them out.

[BadDonkey]

82. Beautiful!

[Lorien]

83. They arrested Gates for "disturbing the peace" in his own house

it seems like they should do the same to those who intentionally disrupt public forums.

[Dinger]

94. Yes, Good Job!

Here's a link to a wisconsin congressman (Ron Kind-D) who sets "ground rules" for town hall meetings.
http://blogs.wispolitics.com/dcwrap/2009/08/kind-sets-ground-rules-for-town-halls.html

[silverweb]

95. That's the way to do it!

:applause:

[FlaGatorJD]

101. Coudn't we just taser them once or twice on the way out?

:sarcasm:

[silverweb]

104. Well... most of them appear old and demented.

On that basis alone, we should be merciful.

However, tasering might act as a form of ECT (electroconvulsive or "shock" therapy) and actually be of benefit.

Hmmm... maybe something to consider.

[No Elephants]

99. I was wondering how anyone named Fudge got elected to Congress to begin with. Now, I get it. She's

smart, brave and cool.

[OnlinePoker]

103. Thrown Out

I can't open the link where I'm at, but I see this as a win for Rep. Fudge. Anything these yahoos said can be ignored because they said it outside of the question and answer period. If they were her constituents and waited to voice their concerns in a civil manner during the Q & A, she would have had to listen to what they said in a respectful manner as their representative.

[Beavker]

105. Precedent

Freedom of speech is great. But you can't set precedent that someone can just come into any place, event or gathering and just simply disrupt it for the sake of disrupting it. How about next time you have a family picnic, I and a handful of my buddies just come over and start yelling at you and your family. Doesn't matter what, just yelling because I have a right to free speech.

No. Kick those losers our. They can raise their hand, get called on, ask a question and get an answer. If you don't like it, say you disagree and sit your ass down, shut up, and go vote for the other guy next time.

Pissing on someone Else's parade is not a right.

[ohheckyeah]

106. And wasn't that a very

simple answer to the problem? Good for her!

[AntiFascist]

107. K&R....

Republicans certainly would not tolerate disruption, why should we?

[pleah]

109. Rep. Fudge sounds like she has more sense than many of the others at these town meetings.

Good for her. Others should have done this in the very beginning.

[Blue_Tires]

117. finally!

that's how it should be handled...