More details emerge on the Plame investigation

[Lucille]

Karl Rove admits trying to discredit Plame and discussing her status with journalists and others, and he names six members of the administration who were also a part of an organized effort to undermine Wilson's credibility through his wife. But Rove claims he acted after Novak wrote his column.


Plugging Leaks
More details emerge on the Plame investigation, as Karl Rove's testimony is revealed for the first time.
Murray S. Waas


President Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, told the FBI in an interview last October that he circulated and discussed damaging information regarding CIA operative Valerie Plame with others in the White House, outside political consultants, and journalists, according to a government official and an attorney familiar with the ongoing special counsel's investigation of the matter.

But Rove also adamantly insisted to the FBI that he was not the administration official who leaked the information that Plame was a covert CIA operative to conservative columnist Robert Novak last July. Rather, Rove insisted, he had only circulated information about Plame after it had appeared in Novak's column. He also told the FBI, the same sources said, that circulating the information was a legitimate means to counter what he claimed was politically motivated criticism of the Bush administration by Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson.

Rove and other White House officials described to the FBI what sources characterized as an aggressive campaign to discredit Wilson through the leaking and disseminating of derogatory information regarding him and his wife to the press, utilizing proxies such as conservative interest groups and the Republican National Committee to achieve those ends, and distributing talking points to allies of the administration on Capitol Hill and elsewhere. Rove is said to have named at least six other administration officials who were involved in the effort to discredit Wilson.

----snip


http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2004/03/waas-m-03-08.html

[yardwork]

1. Rove admits this!!!

I think that this is part of a cover-up. Rove is trying to take the fall. This indicates to me that it came from the very top.

[JoFerret]

11. Agreed.

Sounds like it. Outrageous.

[PaDUer]

48. The entire administration has.....

been "admitting" things lately..They think by admitting it, nothing will become of it..they're right..no one has done anything and they walk away..It's their new strategy...They're using reverse psychology and it's working...They're calling the shots while they continue to get a pass..To them, it's no big deal..They've been doing things from day one and getting away with whatever..When's someone going to get a spine?

[BadGimp]

67. no he only admits to passing on published info

which I imagine the investigators can verify with the people he spoke to ...

[calimary]

86. Okay, guys - RED ALERT! Call your congress-critter about this!

I used that trusty TOLL FREE number - see my sig line below - to call MY gals, Feinstein and Boxer (plus my guy, Henry Waxman) AND Ted Kennedy, Dick Durbin and Carl Levin about this. It's FREE. We NEED TO MAKE A STINK ABOUT THIS!!!

[IndianaGreen]

2. "Rove claims he acted after Novak wrote his column."

Put Rove under oath and next thing you know he will be doing time with Martha Steward.

[Lucille]

7. It really shouldn't matter if he did this after Novak's column

George Bush has stated under no uncertain terms that he will not abide the leaking information to reporters by members of his administration. Rove and the six others discussed Plame and Wilson with reporters and members of conservative organizations and think tanks. They were leaking information. They have to go. Bush, we all know, does not waffle on this or any other issue. He is a god-fearing man of his word.

It's time to frog march!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. Response...

1) Rove is trying to blame Novak for the leak...all previous information reported publicly pointed to Scooter Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, as the primary leaker.

2) Novak should know at this point that he is being hung out to dry, and he will do whatever is necessary to save his own hide. That includes naming Rove and Libby as the primary leakers.

3) Junior used to work with Atwater, the chief dirty tricks guy for the GOP when Poppy was the president. IMHO, that makes Junior the ultimate suspect in this little NeoCon lash-up.

4) Cheney is infamous for the same sort of dirty tricks that Junior has pulled. That makes Cheney another ultimate suspect in this little advanture.

It's time to frog march, but let's make sure we leave no NeoCon behind.

[IndianaGreen]

27. We all suspect that it was Cheney who leaked the information

Cheney had access to NOC information that would not have been available to a political hack like Rove. Scooter Libby and Karl Rove merely carried out their instructions.

We need to get Cheney in front of a grand jury!

[TacticalPeek]

29. 3) + 4) = 2 ?

"two senior administration officials" - Novak

Unka Dick and aWol?

I thought "Nah" at first, until I remembered he insisted on doing his MTP thing. Stoooo-pid.

Maybe Nofacts wasn't the first reporter they went to, maybe he was in the middle or toward the end, when no one else would do it?

Maybe Shrub figured he could sell it to Bob with Unka Dick's help, and rid himself of this troublesome ambassador.


Twofer.


:evilgrin:

[Gin]

84. "leave no NeoCon behind." I like that...it should be used in the campaign

in some way.

[struggle4progress]

63. Get out the Congressional Record

A big PR push behind the IIPA was that people were using UNCLASSIFIED sources (newspapers etc) to out covert agents. I think the "pattern" language in the IIPA was intended to permit prosecution of exactly this sort of thing: if it was already in print, the administration could have done all sorts of things beside make sure everybody knew it. I bet there's a committee report or language in the Record reflecting this.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Doesn't sound like the proper sequence of events, does it?

[hang a left]

66. I remember back in July reading that it is not a crime to repeat

the information once it has been reported. I believe this is what KKKarl is admitting to here. I call bullsh**.

[struggle4progress]

74. Not a lawyer,

but I'm hoping the IIPA is flexible enough to go after Rove et al.

[Catch22Dem]

3. What does this part mean?

"he circulated and discussed damaging information regarding CIA operative Valerie Plame"

I don't get it. There IS no damaging info about her. At first I thought it meant just naming her, but it sounds more like he was circulating information about her that was damaging. That doesn't make sense. Am I just misreading it?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. Even naming her was damaging, to say the very least...

...because she was a deep cover operative for the CIA. IMHO, that is the damaging info about her.

[Occulus]

76. Her front company was named, I think

and that put a whole bunch of people in danger. I'd be interested to know if any agents connected to the front were harmed or killed after this was revealed.

Also, simply naming her as Wilson's wife was horridly damaging to her. A crime, I believe.

[pinto]

4. Hi Karen.

[central scrutinizer]

5. what is Rove's security clearance?

For crissakes, he is a political hack. By what twisted logic does he have the security clearance necessary to know who is an undercover CIA agent? Frog march time!!!

[yardwork]

10. Rover says he learned it from Novak

Rover says he trusted Novak as a reliable source.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

A whole bunch of people ought to go to jail over this, imo.

[coltman]

16. need to know

political advisors need to know clandestine operatives,I don't think so.This is shrub shit,they should all be in jail and saying howdy to Bubba.

[fearnobush]

6. It's time for a Frog March Mr. Rove.

Why is this not on the front page of the Washington Post?????

[placton]

9. By God, every Dem in the US needs to

put this incredible fact before their local media. "In order to "get at" a political opponent, it's OK to attack his wife!"

Gee, the family values party at it again.

Really, these people have no shame.

[TacticalPeek]

13. "a government official and an attorney familiar"

So, like, I wonder if these two spend time together lately?

Preemptive leaking.

From all indications, not from the prosecutor's office, but outside, and to be expected as the meeting time approacheth for the famous substance and the fan.


Josh Marshall has some on this at TPM.

And this author at Murray S. Waas

[displacedtexan]

14. Seems like Rove is trying to pull a fast one.

If he cops to an unethical smear of "Wilson's wife," his lawyers hope that more serious criminal charges (outing an undercover CIA agent) won't be levied against him.

Karl is nobody's fool.

[joeunderdog]

59. bingo. There, I admitted to something, pay no attention to the man

behind the curtain in the Oval Office. This is a distraction. they will call any further pursuit of this "harrassment."

Just shows how low the bar has gotten when pols admit to smearing public servants for reverse propoganda, use murdered Americans as a means to bolster a campaign, and demand that Americans accept ignorance as a reason for going to war on an unarmed country. I'm embarrassed for my country with these a-holes running it.

Where are the Dems yelling?

[Mountainman]

15. At the very least it confirms the idea that Rove is behind the talking

points desemination.

snip>
Rove ........... described to the FBI what sources characterized as an aggressive campaign to discredit Wilson through the leaking and disseminating of derogatory information regarding him and his wife to the press, utilizing proxies such as conservative interest groups and the Republican National Committee to achieve those ends, and distributing talking points to allies of the administration on Capitol Hill and elsewhere. Rove is said to have named at least six other administration officials who were involved in the effort to discredit Wilson.

[Stephanie]

23. When they say "conservative interest groups" what do they mean?

Could it be the freepers and their fake Talon News?

A freeper is on the Plame subpoena list

[Just Me]

17. Fascinating!!!

Oh, man,...would I like to get my hands on the transcript of that interview!!!! Rove may be an polished propagandist; but, as such, he most likely backed himself into a hole he can never crawl out of,...as all expert b*llshites do. Ohhhhh,...if only I could see a transcript.

[dweller]

26. Cue up

Dueling Banjos
:o
set the mood,
dp

[Stephanie]

19. Who could be the source of this leak?

This is the first actual leak I've seen since Fitzgerald came in. Do you think it was defense counsel for one of the witnesses who leaked it? Maybe Rove himself? It doesn't seem likely that anything escaped from Fitzgerald's side. Any guesses?

[pinto]

21. Hi Karen.

[Stephanie]

24. pinto

Who's Karen?

[Just Me]

25. *LOL*,...duly noted,...*eom*

[Stephanie]

33. Oh, okay

Doh-ohh.

[Just Me]

42. Karen Hughes

Bush Campaign Communications Director,...I believe, perhaps mistakenly, is what is the proffer.

She "counseled" Bush Jr. for his first eighteen months as the appointed one and crafted all his PR stuff. She was the one who helped to create the communications effort after 9/11 and helped create the Office of Global Communications

She served as Director of Communications for Dubya's gubernatorial campaigns in 94 and 98 and, reportedly was one of the “Iron Triangle” of Texas despots who led Dubya's campaign for president (and was Director of Communications in during his goverance in TX).

[Stephanie]

44. yeah

I finally got it.

[pinto]

56. hi, sorry, Karen Hughes. previous posts outline this kompassionate server.

[Junkdrawer]

20. I'm guessing that means Rove knows that someone is talking...

and that he needs to do damage control and attempt to confuse time frames.

I suspect that Rove has killed before to keep his dirty deeds out of the news (e.g. Hatfield and 'Fortunate Son'), so I think that either a full-court-press is made to frog march the guy or someone will be killed to chill the air.

[yardwork]

22. Seriously?

Who do you think Rove has killed?

And, remember that Enron executive who "killed himself" in his car the morning he was supposed to give a deposition?

[Junkdrawer]

28. I saw "Horns and Halos"...

And J.H. Hatfield committed "suicide" a month after revealing that Rove himself was the secret source for "Fortunate Son's" most explosive charges.

[Stephanie]

31. Baxter

That was very suspicious.

[Occulus]

77. Oh, very.

I think that was when people here started using the phrase "was suicided."

[Stephanie]

30. to be fair re JH

Hatfield's wife feels it was suicide.

[Junkdrawer]

36. As I said, I saw 'Horns and Halos' and I just can't forget...

the scene where Hatfield says "I look at my little daughter and I can't help but wonder, now that I've named my sources, how many times I'll see her again".

[Stephanie]

37. Okay, I need to see the film

I know someone who's friends with JH's wife, and my friend is convinced it really was a suicide. But I'd like to see that film - Lord knows I wouldn't put it past them.

[Junkdrawer]

39. I got it on DVD from Amazon.ca...

US Amazon doesn't carry it (imagine that!). I suspect these people use ambiguity every bit as much as murder to keep people quiet.

[dax]

65. Induced suicide maybe...

If you listen to his interviews and read his stuff, you would know that the hell his life was about to become would make a person think seriously about freeing their wife and child from that kind of despair and negative attention. So maybe ROve didn't "kill" Hatfield, but knowing what he (ROve) was and what heinous pain Rove could inflict would be a proximate cause.

[Stephanie]

69. yes, that sounds about right to me

but of course we'll never know, will we?

[ignatius]

32. Well..this explains why Karen Hughes is making the round of

talk shows to defend Dimson..Rove is going to the hoosegow..

Good riddance to the evil bastard..may twins name Bubba 1 and 2 share your cell for many, many years.

He is taking down 6 more with him...bwahahaha..that'll show you not to trust a mafia madman!!!

Bye,bye you evil machivellian slug.

[Just Me]

45. All I can say is,...that would be my wildest dream come true!!!!

Better than,...okay, I won't go,...oh, what the hell,...it WOULD feel way beyond orgasmic!!!! *sigh*,...but, that is "Just Me" :D

[Junkdrawer]

47. ROTFLOL - From your lips to God's ear. n/t

[pinto]

58. you knew the sh*t hit the fan when Karen "came back"...she's ultra-

loyal, has saved the shrub's ass before and isn't beholding to other "factions" of the administration.....to her, I doubt if neocon means anything more than somebody who's against neo's...or some such. One thing, though, Ann Richards can tell you, they're smart and they're mean.

[Malva Zebrina]

34. None will "frog march"

forget it.

This will not be an issue and none of them will take the responsibiltiy.

To think otherwise is to muster false hopes.

[TacticalPeek]

35. Seems like this was known and reported months ago.

Five or six months, from Chris Matthews mentioning Rove's "fair game" remark, six reporters (that we "knew" of) but maybe more, Rove pushing the story, etc.

So this is mainly confirmation of the assumed scenario.

Except for the RNC thing! I don't recall hearing that before. :evilgrin:

And maybe the quasi-press, like that freeper guy, and who knows? RW talk show hosts?

[Stephanie]

41. But before we assumed that whoever talked it up afterwards was the leaker

Now Rove is admitting he pushed the story after the original leak, but he is denying he was the first to leak it. Before we thought those would be one and the same person.

In fact, there was a CONSPIRACY to get Wilson.

FROG MARCH!

[TacticalPeek]

60. There has been a lot of betting on Cheney:

TraitorGate: The Leak and Links, Cheney's Libby!

et al.

I've always assumed it was Cheney and pick one/LibbyLutti or Richard Joseph at NSC.

Now I wonder if Cheney's partner might the scared little boy we have for a president?

[Stephanie]

61. I think it's Cheney, too

I think it's Cheney himself. And they will try to get the underlings to take the fall. But, being republicans, they would never dream of sacrificing anything for anyone else. So the Frog March will go to: CHENEY! (IMHO)

[nwstrn]

38. The vast right wing conspiracy at work

"aggressive campaign to discredit Wilson" utilized "proxies such as conservative interest groups and the Republican National Committee to achieve those ends, and distributing talking points to allies of the administration on Capitol Hill and elsewhere."

I hope the investigation sheds light on the right wing intimidation and lies network. A flow chart would be nice, showing the top of the Bush* administration and the "proxies" in the RNC, media, "interest groups" and Congress.

[Stephanie]

43. Flow chart:

Leaves a few links out, but a nice vast RW conspiracy chart all the same:

[Just Me]

49. I love that chart,...but it does leave out Scaife and Weyrich and those,..

,...total fascist freaks who are on the corporate chain gang.

[Stephanie]

53. Right - this is a chart for PNAC in the Pentagon and the WMD lies

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/01/12_405.html

But it's a sort of all-purpose chart anyway, if you are trying to locate the liars in the admin.

[0007]

80. The Carlyle Group Cart fits nicely into the scheme of the cart

I use to have it, but I'm more than sure one can be found if you google the Carlyle Group.

[nwstrn]

52. Nice chart!

Of course, there's no "intelligence flow" to or from *. He's up there alone, choking on a pretzel.

[Occulus]

78. SNERK

Well, you did say "A flow chart would be nice..."

[Rex]

40. Rove admits to treason...kinda

He's only doing this because he knows that the BFEE owns America.

[Oilwellian]

46. I love the sound of....

neo-cons squealing in the morning. :evilgrin:

Let's remember though, the law requires that those who exposed Valerie Plame, had to know she was a covert agent before they can press charges. I'm sure Rove & Company are claiming it was a political smear, not an attempt to out a covert agent. The question is, how could they not know Plame was an agent when in fact she was involved in monitoring the proliferation of wmds and was probably one of the analysts advising against invading Iraq? I can't help but wonder if she wasn't outed because of her unwillingness to go along with the clandestine plans.

[htuttle]

50. Follow the security clearances...

SOMEBODY had to have had the security clearance necessary to know that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. There are a really limited number of people who would have the security clearance to know this. Maybe like 3 or 4 people -- it's 'need to know' type stuff.

One of those people must have been the original source of the leak -- either by directly telling Novak, or telling somebody in the White House who didn't have the appropriate security clearance who told Novak. Either way, they violated their security agreements.

[Oilwellian]

57. Good point

Cheney and Libby would know about Valerie Plame simply by their visits to the CIA several times to arm-twist analysts into seeing things their way. I believe this is an ugly part of the story that's yet to be revealed.

[hang a left]

68. Knowing Poppy's CIA backround and connections

there is a possibility it came from him. Remember Poppy and Cheney stayed at the Whitehouse together the night before 9-11.

[htuttle]

73. Poppy might have known about Plame

He certainly knew Wilson. Joe Wilson was the US Ambassador in Baghdad during Gulf War 1. In fact, I think that Poppy made some rather complimentary statements about Wilson at the time.

I have my doubts that Poppy would do that, however. I don't see him calling Bob Novak (he hates the press...bad), he was the one that pushed the 'anti-cia-exposure' law in the first place, and he didn't seem so hot on invading Iraq this time. Certainly not enough to take a risk like leaking to a reporter.

Of course, he might have let it slip to Rove at some point...

[Kagemusha]

62. Only the law on leaking. There are others.

John Dean's mentioned potential conspiracy charges, denying the People the services of an undercover CIA agent. Karl admitted enough that he could be nailed on the charges of conspiracy to obstruct a CIA agent from carrying out her official duties.

Just so you know, that could be some very serious doo-doo.

[Lucille]

51. Ari tried to discred Wilson days before Novak's column

That came out in the transcript of the press gaggle the WH scrubbed and then reposted--after they got a subpoena. Ari stated that Wilson was contradictory and his report was incomplete. This was the WH's organized, systematic effort to minimize the damage that Wilson brought to the President's credibility and warn others working in intelligence to keep their mouths shut.

[Stephanie]

54. Here's the transcript:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030712-11.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
July 12, 2003

Press Gaggle with Ari Fleischer
The National Hospital
Abuja, Nigeria
9:20 A.M. (Local)

<snip>

Q Ari, the President often speaks of accountability. Does he feel accountability is achieved in this circumstance? Or how do you address that issue?

MR. FLEISCHER: Let me explain to you the President's thinking on this. A greater, more important truth is being lost in the flap over whether or not Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa. The greater truth is that nobody, but nobody, denies that Saddam Hussein was seeking nuclear weapons. He was pursuing numerous ways to obtain nuclear weapons. The United States never said that he had nuclear weapons. We have said that he was pursuing them. It should surprise nobody that Saddam Hussein was seeking to acquire the means to produce from a variety of sources and a variety of ways.

He had previously obtained yellow cake from Africa. In fact, in one of the least known parts of this story, which is now, for the first time, public -- and you find this in Director Tenet's statement last night -- the official that -- lower-level official sent from the CIA to Niger to look into whether or not Saddam Hussein had sought yellow cake from Niger, Wilson, he -- and Director Tenet's statement last night states the same former official, Wilson, also said that in June 1999 a businessman approached him and insisted that the former official, Wilson, meet an Iraqi delegation to discuss expanding commercial relations between Iraq and Niger. The former official interpreted the overture as an attempt to discuss uranium sales.

This is in Wilson's report back to the CIA. Wilson's own report, the very man who was on television saying Niger denies it, who never said anything about forged documents, reports himself that officials in Niger said that Iraq was seeking to contact officials in Niger about sales.

What did the President say in the State of the Union? He said: according to British reports, Iraq is seeking uranium from Africa. And the intelligence cited two other countries, in addition to Niger.

So, again, the larger truth, was Saddam Hussein a threat, in part because he was seeking nuclear weapons, in addition to what we know and have said about chemical and biological.

Now, if you ask, how is the President approaching this, what's the President's approach, the President sees this as much ado, that it's beside the point of the central threat that Saddam Hussein presented.

[peacetalksforall]

55. If Fitzgerald has telephone records, can't they match the dates

to prove or disprove? Can't they ask the top 6 or 12 most suspected journalists to answer whether or not they had a conversation with Rove on any day before the Novak column - without revealing content? And the same for Cheney.

Which day was mentioned in the reference last week to subpoenas of records of AF1 telephone calls?

Aren't days the key now as long as he has admitted he did it after?

We need a timeline now.

We need Tweety and some of the others to name dates.

My gut tells me that the AF1 records are big.

[Jose Diablo]

64. Hmmm, Cheney steps down, heart problem, McCane steps in

and Boooosh resigns because of an undisclosed cocaine conviction from 72 surfaces.

Oh, how I wish.

[htuttle]

70. Novak must be in on the coverup...and doesn't he go back with Rove?

Rove had to admit to telling the '6 other journalists', since he figured they'd squeal on him.

He must trust Novak not to divulge that it was he who told him about Plame. If the timeline does work out to where Novak's column was earlier than the other journalists were told, he probably thinks he can get away with it.

If he'd have found out about Plame any other way than from Novak's column, then whoever told him broke the law -- Rove would certainly not have had the appropriate security clearance to know this information.

I'd be willing to bet at this point that the prosecutor KNOWS that it was Rove. Now it comes down to proving it.

[Stephanie]

72. There are other suspects. We are eyeing Cheney's office.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_02_01.html#002529

[skip fox]

88. Scooter has been repeatedly named in these pages.

One line of thinking went:

1. When Novak began investigating Wilson, Wilson was said to have made his inquiries on the behalf of the Vice President's office.

2. Where would Novak have gone first?

[David Zephyr]

71. Now This Is Breaking News.

I'm with IndianaGreen, Rove should be in prison.

Kick this story.

[struggle4progress]

75. Isn't Rove an enemy combatant?

"Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried out on him personally." - Lincoln 17 Mar 65

[MaineDem]

79. Kick

To get it back to the top

[frank frankly]

81. Ari, you're going to jail!

so are you, KKKarl!

[wicket]

83. I certainly hope so!

n/t

[PATRICK]

82. Fascinating

I can't remember the foulest GOP campaign ever advertising its character and methods so much in advance of an election- as if no one is watching or no one will respond. Do they realize the general perception of expectation a dirty GOP campaign has gone way ahead of the game? Usually the Dems are blamed for 'dirt" politics anytime they get strident or defend themselves, but the real "dirt" usually is kept a bit offstage by the GOP.

Now, outed himself by the Plame case, Rove is much more exposed, characterized and controversial than Atwater ever was. This is a campaign ready to implode- if not over the Plame scandal- then in the frantic efforts to contain this and other messes while trying to conduct a subtle campaign.

Let's see how much crap the simpletons who support Bush can rationalize and call ambrosia. They are losing a chunk of the mainstream media too. You can feel the wavering and hear the chicken bravado clucking to the surface.

[KansDem]

85. It doesn't matter who is charged or who does the "frog walk"...

Bush will pardon him/them, and the matter is closed.

It's happened before...

But I suppose we can still dream }(

[alfredo]

87. Sounds like a conspiracy to me.