California lawmakers propose lowering voting age to 14

[kskiska]

Millions of California's teenagers would become the nation's first to vote under a proposed constitutional amendment introduced Monday by a 71-year-old state senator.

Sen. John Vasconcellos, D-Santa Clara, proposed the idea alongside three other lawmakers, saying the Internet, cellular phones, multichannel television and a diverse society makes today's teens better informed than generations of their predecessors.

Coming on the heels of an expected record low turnout among adults in the March 2 election, Vasconcellos would give 16-year-olds a half vote and 14-year-old a quarter vote in state elections beginning in 2006.

The idea, formally called "Training Wheels for Citizenship," first requires two-thirds approval by the Legislature to appear on this November's ballot.

The California suggestion comes 33 years after the United States lowered its voting age from 21 to 18, and amid a fledgling youth movement in the U.S. and other nations to lower the voting age. Supporters say Israel allows 17-year-olds to vote in local elections, while Austria and Germany allow 16-year-olds to vote in some local elections. A bill in California letting 17-year-olds vote in primary elections when they will be 18 years old for the general election has languished.

more…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/03/08/state1805EST0129.DTL

[Catch22Dem]

1. Um...no thanks

I know plenty of 25 year olds who have no business voting, no need to lower the bar even more. I think 18 is just fine.

[xray s]

2. 14 or FIGHT! Everybody now...14 or FIGHT!

Life imitates art...35 years later!

[Dogmudgeon]

18. Nothing can change the shape of things to come!

--bkl

[AP]

3. This is the plan to reelect Arnold?

[AP]

5. Or is it the plan to guarantee we have to use computer voting (half a vote

???)

[dakota_democrat]

4. Poor choice...

in my opinion. At 14 most people don't know the issues enough to cast an educated vote...then again, at any age most people don't know the issues enough to cast an educated vote.

[youngred]

60. but there are many who do

in fact those who are in HS, and taking gov't and US history classes probably know MORE about current events, policies and politics than many uninterested adults

[rucky]

6. Snoop Dogg for Governizzle!

fushizzle dizzle

[Donkeyboy75]

32. ROTFLMAO

:D

[indepat]

7. Sheer lunacy

[LibDemAlways]

8. Rather than lowering the voting age,

we should be requiring that people who do vote have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the candidates and issues. The
Gropernator's election tells me that many voters don't have a clue.

[MsUnderstood]

11. My 11 year old knows better

She told me "kids today only follow what their parents want them to. . .so why should anyone be allowed to vote before they can leave the house"

Here is the reality--you can't talk about the political hot buttons in school (abortion, gay rights, corrupt government) so why in the world do we believe kids will be any better informed than their parents??

[Trillo]

9. Maybe they'll vote themselves student pay raises n/t

[BR_Parkway]

35. And lower the drinking age n/t

[aquart]

10. NO.

They are better informed about each other, NOT the world.

God, what an idiot's idea.

[JPace]

12. Fourteen is too young, teenagers are not old enough

to make decisions as to who should run their
government. It's like getting to choose their
own parents at that age.....most would love to
trade theirs in for more permissive ones.

[mediaman007]

13. How about a pilot program...

Allow the teenagers to vote in their local elections (community). After 10 years, we can evaluate participation and the attitudes of both the teens and the adults.

Let them learn in their own area. Then they'll be ready to join us at 18.

[alittlelark]

14. OK, get ready to FLAME ME!! I don't think it could hurt...here's why

The kids I know in this age group are actually better informed that a lot of the middle-age propaganda victims I know. My experiences are, of course, different, because I am in a relatively liberal area of the country, and am involved in a liberal home schooling group.
Many 14+ would be uninformed voters, but then, guess what...so are a great many middle age propoganda victims.
Kids in this age bracket have a tendancy to get DEEPLY INVOLVED in whatever interests them (ever chatted w/ a teen about music?). If they knew that they could become involved in the world that is evolving around them, some would become deeply invoved. I am still in the market for the next RFK or MLK. What better way to have them develop that intensity at a young age. They matter - they care.
Then again, there is the fact that it would be fought tooth and nail by Repub's (especially if there is the draft possibility in 2005). Those kids will get pretty ticked off at the group that attempted to deny them something.

Digest it, then yell

[BiggJawn]

44. What about the general population?

The proposal was for ALL 14-y-o to have their "half vote" (why does that ring alarm bells? can you say "3/5ths"?) Not just the home-schooled kids you know.

"Those kids will get pretty ticked off at the group that attempted to deny them something."

Nobody is denying them anything. Some MORAN is proposing to give them something they have no right getting. So, next they get "ticked off" that they can't drink, or that at 14, they still can't drive, or get married w/o thir parents consent, or get creit cards.
Big deal, *I* get "ticked off" every day. So what? that's Life, and something your average 14-y-o has no inkling of.

what they won't try to keep Herr Gropenfuhrer in "Sak-Cra-mento"...

[alexwcovington]

53. "That's Life?"

Come now, you think more of your own problems than "That's Life."

Why is it that when young people complain it's Whining, and when adults complain it's a campaign issue?

Because young people can't vote. And that is wrong, especially in a democracy.

[cass71898]

47. I agree

My 10 year old has more political knowledge that most adults. He became very involved after the 2000 Selection, and even attends rallies with me. He and his friends at school had decided LAST FEBRUARY that they liked Dean.

I can also remember thinking that it wasn't fair that I could work at 16 and not vote.

[newyawker99]

48. Hi cass71898!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Doctor Pedantic]

15. As a Californian....

Let me just say...you've gotta be kidding!

This is the state that got rid of our governor and put in an "actor" on a whim.

This is the state that voted for Proposition 13 ("We hate public schools"), 187 ("We hate the brown people"), and 22 ("We hate, hate, hate, homos").

The adults have proven themselves absolute idiots time and time again (give us credit for Barbara Boxer, though). The last thin we need is a huge influx of even less informed and even more immature voters.

Then again, could we really do any worse?

[Katha]

16. Yeah, right

Hah! No thank you. I don't know many 18 year olds mature enough to handle voting, let alone 14 year olds.

Besides, how many 14-17 year olds are there out there really chomping at the bit to vote? Other than the underage DUers here, of course. :)

[nolabels]

17. I have a problem with this, but has to do with71-year-olds

or any other age groups doing onto others. Having others meet some criteria instead of merit is a problem. Its never going be fair totally anytime soon but that should be no reason for blatant discrimination against others.

I don't think it's a good idea but if you can try a teenager as adult in criminal court clearly a means test is absent in this thing they call Citizenship

[LifeDuringWartime]

20. good point

i really wish i could vote in november... but i won't be old enough until two months afterwards :(

[Dogmudgeon]

19. Interesting -- and sad

If you want to gauge the depth of contempt in the country for young people, just advocate lowering the voting age.

All the arguments posted here mirror those presented before the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18.

It's sad that so many progressives have bought into it.

--bkl

[Art_from_Ark]

21. Well heck, why stop at 14?

Why not lower the age to 12 ? Or 10? Or 8?

[alittlelark]

23. Because some of them are still wetting the bed.

After adolescence, that tends to stop......then they are drafted.



WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!

[lazarus]

22. Well

It's fair.

If you're old enough to be tried as an adult, you should be old enough to vote.

Oh, and drink alcohol. Right? If you're old enough to be tried as an adult, you obviously have the capacity to make informed, mature decisions about your life. Same with voting and drinking.

Oh, and driving, that's at 14, too, I'm sure.

[Crachet2004]

24. Since 14 is the average mental age of most Republicans...

I say don't do it!

[flaminbats]

25. hmmm..

the voting age could be tied to an age that one begins paying taxes, eligibility for the draft, drinking age, and also early high school graduation.

[AP]

26. This is a strick to give big families more votes, I think. Probably to

help latinos (catholics).

[PartyPooper]

27. Weren't blacks given 1/2 a vote?

This seems to be the same idea.

Besides, I think kids this age are WAY to young to vote. Just my opinion.

[leesa]

28. May as well, most Americans think like 14 year olds

[AlFrankenFan]

29. Oh thank you!

Voting at 14!!! I'm 14! I'd love it!

But knowing that not everyone I know are interested in politics, kids at age 14 should be required to pass a test that judges whether or not you're "ready" to vote.

[JusticeForAll]

30. LET THEM VOTE

So, why are you, adult Americans so afraid to let them vote?

Is it because you, my fellow adult Americans who are too lazy to get off your sorry asses and urge your other fellow lazy adult Americans to go vote? Worried that you'll see Representative J. Timberlake making your laws?

I think this is a wonderful way to get people involved in their elections so that they have no right to complain who their elected officials are.

Reading this, it appears that only a quarter vote is given to 14 and 15 year olds, and a half-vote is given to 16, 17, and 18 year olds. Sounds fair to me. If they want to vote, they have every right, as Americans who are created equal and who are given responsibility of being tried as adults. (This would also open them up as candidates for jury duty, as well. How can a jury of peers be fair, when none of their peers can be selected?)

Afraid your election is going to be hijacked by Snoop Doggy Dogg and Britney. Well, Damn...you should have been more of a real life activist than an e-activist here on the DU.

I paid income taxes at 14. Where was my representation?

JusticeForAll
happily, age 32.

[Democat]

31. Most minors are expected to do what their parents tell them

Wouldn't it be possible that you'd actually be giving adults with children more than one vote, rather than giving minors any votes?

[BR_Parkway]

36. I think the turnout could be stronger

look at how many vote for American Idol? I think their first night was higher number of votes than all of the primary votes cast total.

[markses]

33. If children as young as 11 can be tried as adults

Then children as young as 11 should be given the right to vote.

When we try children as adults, we implicitly agree that they can make adult decisions. Currently, we want it both ways: try kids as adults, but no voting.

[kskiska]

34. I wasn't even eligible to vote for JFK

and I was 20 back then.

[R Hickey]

37. Kids in California, back in the 1930's drove cars at 14.

My 85-year-old mother got her bum-knee in a California auto accident back then. The car she was riding in was driven by a 14 year old.

[Disturbed]

38. 16

One can get a driver's license in CA at 16 why not a full vote? Perhaps an IQ test for all voters would be a good idea. Only average IQ and above can vote.

[DiverDave]

39. This would

disenfranchise singles, parents tell there kids to vote their way, in effect giving them more power at the polls.
I don't like it and I think even California will see that it is ridicules.
But then again, they voted in ahnald.

[lazarus]

41. LOL

You think kids would do what their parents tell them?

Are you a parent?

[Nihil]

43. Ha ha ha ha ha ...

> Perhaps an IQ test for all voters would be a good idea.
> Only average IQ and above can vote.

Now that would REALLY f*ck up an electoral system! :evilgrin:

Oh, I wish it would happen (in this country too) - it might be one way
to get a government to pay attention to education ...

Nihil

[kcwayne]

40. Better Informed? Most 14 year olds can't find their city on a map

[snooper2]

46. Most 18 year olds can't find Iraq on a map!

(Edit for link)

Remember the study that came out last year where only 13% of High School graduates could find Iraq on a map.

---
I found the study, from 2002 actually..

http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/farfromheaven/180.html

"The society survey found that only about one in seven -- 13 percent -- of Americans between the age of 18 and 24, the prime age for military warriors, could find Iraq. The score was the same for Iran, an Iraqi neighbor."

[Zhade]

42. Isn't this like "3/5ths of a person"?

Vasconcellos would give 16-year-olds a half vote and 14-year-old a quarter vote in state elections beginning in 2006.

So, like, 14-year-olds are only half the person 16-year-olds are, and 16-year-olds are half the person 18-year-olds are?

What kind of "fuzzy math" is this? Forget it. What the hell is this guy thinking?

[kiahzero]

49. Following that logic

Right now:

14-year olds are only: EXCEPTION - Division by 0! the person 15-year olds are.
15-year olds are only: EXCEPTION - Division by 0! the person 16-year olds are.
16-year olds are only: EXCEPTION - Division by 0! the person 17-year olds are.
17-year olds are only: EXCEPTION - Division by 0! the person 18-year olds are.

Isn't some representation better than none?

[alexwcovington]

54. I think so! Some representation is better than none.

nt

[Wabbajack]

45. Quater Vote?

This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

Anyone see the movie "North"?

[JusticeForAll]

50. I hope to hear a debate on this proposal.

1) They are too dumb. They are too uninformed. They can't find Iraq on a map. (and this makes them different from the general populace how?) (sub-topic on this: Chances are that our so-called modern day textbooks are still referring to that region as Mesopotamia and the birthplace of modern civilization...but that's another issue altogether)

2) It will disenfranchise singles and favor families with more kids (last time I checked most kids of that age were still single. Also, the same laws you vote for affect these citizens too.)

3) It's only partial representation - reminds me of 3/5. (OK, I'm not sure which side these people stand on, and don't really care, some representation is better than none.)

4) They will do what their parents tell them. (Sorry I can't even respond to this one...I am laughing too hard.)

[Wabbajack]

51. Some will

vote like their parents tell them. Think of fundie familes with 8 kids.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

52. No thanks. This way, all of the young, "culture" crazy kids will vote....

for the Gropenator in 2006. Yes, the adults did it, they may regret it but the kids will be to impressionable.

[alexwcovington]

55. Impressions go both ways.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT!
*Young people can think for themselves!
*Young people are regularly TRIED AS ADULTS while not receiving any of their rights!
*Young people pay taxes, and have NO REPRESENTATION on how they are spent!
*Young people today are the most politically active and volunteer-oriented generation in recent memory!
*Young people are ready and willing to vote!


Are you ready to accept the facts?

[Castilleja]

56. One of the dumbest ideas I can think of.

Short of letting them drive at that age. There is something to be said for maturity when deciding matters that involve other people as well as yourself.

[reprobate]

57. California republicans propose embryonic sufferage.

It's only the logical extension

[JusticeForAll]

58. You sound like hetero Repubs discussing gay marriage

Rights for us, none for you, though. We say so, we are the majority.

Your arguments against this legislation are about as well-supported as those currently heard in the gay marriage debate.

It's so nice to visit the liberal hotbed.

[youngred]

59. Good

I would have been a better voter and citizen at the age of 8 than many "adults" who currently vote.

Go California.

[JusticeForAll]

61. kick