Is Military Creeping Into Domestic Law Enforcement?

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.dowjonesnews.com/sample/samplestory.asp?StoryID=2004030904000010&Take=1

IN A LITTLE-NOTICED side effect of the war on terrorism, the military is edging toward a sensitive area that has been off-limits to it historically: domestic intelligence gathering and law enforcement.

Several recent incidents involving the military have raised concern among student and civil-rights groups. One was a visit last month by an Army intelligence agent to an official at the University of Texas law school in Austin. The agent demanded a videotape of a recent academic conference at the school so that he could identify what he described as "three Middle Eastern men" who had made "suspicious" remarks to Army lawyers at the seminar, according to the official, Susana Aleman, the dean of student affairs.

The Army, while not disputing that the visit took place, declined to comment, saying the incident is under investigation.

Last year, the Office of Naval Intelligence, the nation's primary source of global maritime intelligence, demanded access to the U.S. Customs Service's database on maritime trade, saying it needed information to thwart potential terrorist activity. Customs officials initially resisted the Navy's demands but eventually agreed to give naval intelligence much of what it wanted.

[Romulus]

1. war on terror = death of Posse Comitatus Act

If you thought the war on some drugs blurred the line, I guess we haven't seen anything yet.

[hang a left]

13. Sadly, I trust that these here now are the "good ol days"

I guess we should try to enjoy it while it lasts.

[DennisReveni]

2. SWAT

Gee every police force had it's own military in the form of SWAT teams.
We have been a police state from the beginning. It has only become more obvious in recent years.
Why does this come as a shock to anyone?

[tlcandie]

3. Not to me .. all you have to do is view pics of the Florida NAFTA

situation and KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that the military is taking over the country and becoming more blatant daily!

You haven't seen anything yet... wait for the GOP Convention in September in NY!

[DennisReveni]

5. tlcandie

People forget that Eisenhower warned the world about this nearly fifty years ago.
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html
" IV.

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

.......
VI.

Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war -- as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years -- I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.

Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.

[Bozita]

24. IIRC, that was the FTAA meeting in Miami.

Subject of a couple of stories on Bill Moyers NOW.

Many pics are available.

[catmandu57]

4. It's been there

Urban assault vehicles, military style uniforms, and weapons, intelligence units. They're just more open about it now.

[DBoon]

6. Local police require federal security clearance

to participate in homeland security programs. This effectively puts them out of reach of any sort of local control (how can local voters or elected reps question classified secret/top secret work?).

My best links is
http://www.detnews.com/2001/politics/0111/25/politics-351153.htm

I read some time ago that of somthing like 800 local police chiefs requested to get a clearance, about a third declined because the process was too intrusive. Anyone heard this? Got a link?

[noonwitch]

7. What's scary is how invisible it all is

You don't see uniformed military men occupying cities (not since the riots of the 60s, when in 1967, the Michigan National Guard occupied Detroit). It's far more subtle these days.

[H2O Man]

8. You may recall...

... that in the 1990s, it was "revealed" that army intel was following MLK. Matter of fact, they admitted to be on a roof in Memphis, overlooking a motel where King was staying. Of course, they must have been there to protect Dr. King, right?

[CaptainClark23]

9. Depends on where you are

NYC is becoming quite accustomed to Nat'l Guard presence.

And not locals either, but upstate kids. Which makes me VERY nervous. No telling how these kids would react in a stressful situation in an unfamiliar urban environment, should things get hot.

I'd feel better protected by NY's Strongest, the Sanitation Dept.

[northzax]

16. this is the oldest trick in the book

never use local troops. ever. When Stalin wanted to pacify places, he would send in troops from outside the region. When the PRC wanted to quell the Tienanmen Square demonstrations, they were forced to bring in troops from outside Beijing, the locals wouldn't shoot their neighbors. Local troops might have sympathy with the locals, who are, after all, their friends, neighbors and family members, and we can't have that, so you bring in people from rural areas to cities, and from cities to rural areas.

Frankly, I am a little frightened of what will happen in NYC during the GOP convention.

[CaptainClark23]

19. Most correct, yes

I'm not quite so worried about the RNC...yet.

As of now, the NYPD is still responsible for immediate security, with additional federal troops to be assigned to cover bridges, tunnels, etc. while the NYPD handles the convention. BUT, the event has been declared a "National Security Event" which gives the Secret Service final control and override of all involved security agencies.

No love lost between the City and SS...see anniversary of 9.11 when SS wanted to run family members of victims through metal detectors to protect Cheney. NYPD refused, Cheney went elsewhere.

So we;ll see how that lil drama plays out, something to watch.

[Jose Diablo]

10. I do not think we need fear the military

Each member of the military swears a solemn oath to protect the constitution from all enemies. They are us and we are them.

The key is changes must be made within the guidelines of peaceful resistance to authorities that are attempting to subvert the constitution.

The military will stay on the sideline as long as peace is maintained. There may be individuals that attempt to cross the line, but the military will deal with those individuals as long as we remain peaceful. We should be glad the military is there to protect us from the outside while we work through our internal disputes.

The same goes for the police forces. We must remember that the police want the same things we do. They also swear a solemn oath to uphold the constitution. If there are individuals that cross the line in the police, the police will deal with them. For us, the task is to keep protests peaceful, on our part.

In a ever changing environment, change is inevitable, the key is change MUST be peaceful. It is our responsibility to remain firm, but peaceful in our protests on the wrongs we see.

As long as peace is maintained, the forces of the king will stand down. The king is then forced to deal with the protests on the standards of what is right and legal.

[CaptainClark23]

14. I'd like to agree

But how do you explain events like what transpired in Miami and Oakland, to name two.

The culture of uniformed service is not one of reasoned questioning and discretion, but of obedience. Why have we not seen military and law enforcement refusing to engage in unconstitutional acts?

Because they are trained to see the public as potentially dangerous adversaries, not as fellow citizens who enjoy the full rights and protection of the law.

The "good citizen" is one who stays at home and quietly complies with any edict the governing powers wish to impose.

All the rest of us are dangerous menaces and will be dealt with in according fashion.

Sweeping generalizations, yes. But am speaking more of a cultural bias than the intent of individuals.

[Jose Diablo]

20. I would call what happened in Miami

Criminal on the part of politicians and certain elements within the police forces in Florida. I would think the courts and various agencies in Florida and the Federal governments should proceed with all due haste to prosecute those elements within law enforcement to the fullest extent of the law.

As for Oakland, I am not so sure. The attempt by certain protesters to interfere with with shipping material to the military in Iraq, well I would call that crossing the line on the part of the protesters. It is one thing to protest a war, another to put those conducting the war in jeopardy by interfering with material support. There are ways to change things without violating the law.

I would call interfering with material shipping the wrong way to protest. The effort to protest needed to be at the source of the conflict, in Washington D.C where the war was authorized, not at the supply end of how the war was being executed. IMHO.

We agree in principles, but disagree on methods.

[northzax]

17. you're white, aren't you?

live in the suburbs? middle-upper middle class?

I have the deepest respect for individuals who elect to serve their country by joining the military, or police, or fire departments (among other services) but the pressures and dangers of the job can cause good people to make bad decisions.

I am touched by your faith in the ability of the military and police forces to be self-policing, but don't kid yourself, the police and military are capable of incredible brutality at times, and incredible self-justification, that's why we have civilian oversight. You are obviously lucky to never have had that attention directed at you or those you know.

[Jose Diablo]

23. I am 313

Make no mistake, I understand the pressures we all are under. We do have courts, and can petition these court for redress of grievances.

The police are accountable to the people for their actions. To be sure, there is brutality, it is easy to become brutal when witnessing daily the brutality of people hurting others.

What is the cost to a persons soul, when forced to witness what happens to innocent people, when all you really wanted in the beginning is to help and serve. To be hated, not because of who you are, but what you represent.

[Layman]

11. "We Have Met the Enemy And He Is Us"

Didn't you know? We are the enemy. Just ask any of our "finest", with their military backgrounds and buzztop haircuts. Our police forces have been stolen by the D.o D. and they serve their masters well.

[Say_What]

12. Only for the last 40 years.

On edit: Add Miami photos from November 2003

Kent State 1970




Mary Ann Vecchio kneels by a fallen student on the Kent State campus on May 4, 1970. (AP photo)





Miami November 2003

[Mari333]

15. My son drove from Seattle to Vancouver

and said when he crossed into Canada, the Canadian guards at the border said "Have a nice time in Vancouver eh?"
Then when he came back to enter Washington state he was met with , as he described it "FUCK YOU WELCOME TO AMERICA WHERES YOUR PAPERS FUCK YOU"
kind of behaviour.
He had his passport and birth certificate, which got him thru, but his friend only had a drivers lisence, and they dragged his friend into a building to check on him with a computer. Nice kid, from Michigan.
Oh the irony.

[northzax]

18. where's the irony?

your son's friend left the country without proof of citizenship. You do not need to be a US citizen to get a driver's license, if he left the country without proof of his legal right to be in the US, and all he got was a short interrogation before being let in, I'd say he got off easy.

[Mari333]

21. Its the attitude

the attitude of bullyish pushing people around. I saw it when I was in Ireland, the cops there arent bullies.
In this country, even in my small town, they are. Its like they have a go ahead to be mean and act like Nazis. Ive seen it plenty of times, and if you go to Europe or Canada its not the same mean bullying behaviour.

[northzax]

27. really? try breaking the law in Ireland

you'll find they are plenty mean enough. The fact is that we ahve an antagonistiv relationship with authority in this country, it's aprt of our culture, and something that has always been around, we are dickheads to cops, and they are dickheads back. What's your first reaction when you geta parking ticket? or a speeding ticket? you try to get out of it. What's your reaction to border guards? negative, apparently, and you expect them to be pleasant to you?

Next time, try to get into Ireland without a passport, and see how they react. you'll ahve fun, seriously.

[MUAD_DIB]

25. Not to defend them...so I won't.

U.S. Border gaurds have always been dickheads. I did the same thing going from Vermont to Canada and back in the same day.

The Canadian border gaurd, a woman in her early fifties, was very nice and polite, but as soon as I came back I had Seargent Rock grilling me on what I had done.

My bad. I shouldn't have ever left the fatherland.


BTW: I hope that your son is safe.


<...Edited for spellin>

[saltara]

22. if you have noticed, what to do?

A demonstration was recently held outside the offices of a NYC Congresswoman, Carolyn Maloney (Democrat) because she is sponsoring a bill (HR 3439) which would permit CIA agents to operate directly within local police forces - a move which would make a legislative revision to the original 1949 CIA Act which did not permit agents to operate directly within any state or local law enforcement agencies! Instead of allowing "creeping militarization" to just happen, why not join or start a local campaign, write to your Congressional representative, check out what you can do through the ACLU or Bill of Rights Defense Committee websites, etc.

Information about the NYC Campaign to Demilitarize the Police can be found here:

http://demilitarizethepolice.netfirms.com

(If you scroll down to the blue box on the right, you can read some longer articles about the militarization of the police).

[BeHereNow]

26. Welcome to DU!

and thanks for the link!
BHN

[Magleetis]

28. Check this out

http://www.pbs.org/now/ How can our enemies hate us for our freedoms when we no longer have any?