Minaret ban 'a security risk' - Swiss minister

[demoleft]

Source: bbc

A decision by Swiss voters to ban the construction of minarets poses a risk to Switzerland's security, the country's foreign minister says.

Micheline Calmy-Rey said the Swiss government was "very concerned" about the ban, adopted by voters on Sunday.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8388793.stm

[snagglepuss]

1. Stupid thing to say. THe Swiss have extremely rigid building codes

don't allow steel and glass towers, or McD's golden arches. There's no ban on mosques. I see no problem banning a particular architectural feature.

[Dogtown]

2. Stupid and naive

to think that this is not an attack on Islam. I'm shocked that the Great Neutral Power has enlisted in the NeoCrusades.


It seems the 21st Century Religious World War is inevitable.

[snagglepuss]

3. If Muslims interprete this a an attack on Islam its because they are looking for a

fight. This is an aesthetic decision that the Swiss have a right to make. Mosques aren't banned. Islam isn't banned. Furthermore the minarets that are in Switzerland aren't used for call to prayer so they are simply an aesthetic feature.

[harmonicon]

4. sweet lord - do you really believe that?

Did you see the add campaign posters for the vote?

[WriteDown]

6. No...

Do you have any links to images?

[pampango]

9. Here's the one showing the the ejection of a black sheep from the all-white sheep Switzerland.

[WriteDown]

14. Wow. nt

[WriteDown]

13. wrong spot. nt

[ChangoLoa]

16. These adds from the UDC will give you a clear image of them

Naturalization of foreigners adds





"Use your heads" add



"Security" add



Against joigning the EU add



"Minarets" add



"They took our jobs" add




I like the adds made by the left concerning the UDC extreme right party:

"We are not sheep"



"For more love between the "peoples" (and Switzerland). Against the rise of extremist parties (the UDC)"



"Xenophobic nightmares are bad for health. No to the anti-minaret initiative"

[jberryhill]

18. This Poster Carefully Explains The Aesthetic Concern In Reasonable Terms....

[WriteDown]

19. I think that is the same poster they used for "Scream 3." nt

[ChangoLoa]

21. Looks like the German 1930's "aesthetics" are becoming fashion once again nt.

[snagglepuss]

23. Blame the Turkish PM Erdogan who said that minarets were Islam's bayonets and

and compared mosques to military barracks.

[jberryhill]

25. Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching As To War, With The Cross Of Jesus

...going on before.

Clearly that hymn establishes the cross on the Swiss flag as an emblem of battle.

Really... quotemining silly comments is a pointless exercise. The minaret has been a feature of mosque architecture for far longer than the Turkish PM's attributed quote.

[snagglepuss]

31. This would never have been an issue if militant Islamists hadn't carved out

out a sizable niche for themselves in Europe and elsewhere. The London and Madrid bombings, the Danish cartoon frenzy etc etc has made Europeans antsy. If this was 20 years what the Turkish PM said wouldn't have garnered attention and minarets would not have garnered attention which is a fact because there are minarets in Switzerland. Furthermore the Swiss have not passed a law stating that in perpetuity there will be no minarets, their legal system is not based on an immutable holy book, their laws can change, opinion can evolve. This is as issue for Swiss Muslims and the Swiss to resolve.

I would be sympathetic if Muslims embrace the freedom of the press and freedom of speech, and accept that people have the right to criticize cherished notions and caricaturize religious figures. As it stands that is not case. This is just another instance of cherry picking rights.

[Lionel Mandrake]

30. Red, Black, and White

Where have we seen that color scheme before?

Hint: they used to march without bending their knees and salute without bending their elbows.

[Dogtown]

5. Many Muslims *are* looking for a fight.

I don't question the Swiss right to establish building codes. I don't believe for a second that this new code is anything but an attempt to ease toward de legitimizing Islam.

The Swiss could certainly pass building codes outlawing the erection of "steeples", too. I don't expect to see that law passed, or even proposed.

Banning the Golden Arches is a matter of aesthetics: there is no international group of True McDonald Believers who would feel targeted by that ban. Banning a critical feature of mosques goes a bit beyond outlawing a business trademark. Especially at this time, it will only be seen by the most fervent Muslims as an insult and a cultural attack.

IMAGINE the outrage if the Swiss had banned such a specifically Christian church feature, say stain-glass windows.

The referendum was initiated by the most RW of Swiss political parties. The French extreme right has passed laws prohibiting Muslim attire, also. Have they also banned public wearing of the crucifix?

All of this is a preamble to World War, as surely as the disenfranchisements of the Serbs gave us WWI.

Dogtown has no pony in this race. I am neither Muslim nor Christian. As far as I'm concerned, both mythologies are false and I dread living in a world torn apart once again by the cynical and greedy leaders of both sides motivating the naive and childish masses to slaughter each other in a religious fervor.

EDIT: Let me say that many Christians are also looking for a fight, I did not mean to imply that the Muslims are the only bellicose faction in the impoending melee.

[JonQ]

7. "IMAGINE the outrage if the Swiss had banned such a specifically Christian church feature"

On here it would be well received, a necessary move to save everyone from the ravages of a barbaric religion.

[walnutpie]

8. HAHAHAHAHA - quite true

On the flip side, you wouldn't find anyone worried that the stained glass ban would elicit a wave of bombings.

[Dogtown]

11. Yes, Jonny

There IS a War on Christmas. We'll let you keep your gun, but we'll confiscate your creche...

[JonQ]

22. Haha

no one mentioned christmas but you. However, on this site there is a widespread belief that christian = evil, muslim = oppressed.

And this is coming from a devout agnostic.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChangoLoa]

12. It's not an architectural or aesthetic decision

As you can see in the add, it's not only about minarets




This law was promoted by the Swiss extreme right party, the UDC, and it's about what they call the "cristian identity of Europe"

[WriteDown]

15. That'll sure make you feel welcome. nt

[Fumesucker]

26. Eh, I see a woman (presumably anyway) in a burqua, some minarets and a swiss flag..

I'm guessing the Swiss don't particularly care for the burqua either.

As an atheists I don't much like Islam, Christianity or any other religion for that matter, I think they are all to some extent irrational.

I would be a lot less likely to dislike them if religions weren't so prone to writing their scripture into secular law as the Christians like to do in the US.

Indeed, the more fundamentalist Muslims and Christians alike both deny the very legitimacy of any secular government, that's quite upsetting to those of us who do not share their faith.

[Flaneur]

17. An aesthetic decision?!? You have a very dry sense of humor.

[ChangoLoa]

20. Yeah, racial and religious "aesthetics"

Same old story.

The dangerous thing is that they have a lot more ramifications with the European traditional "center"-right wing than it seems. Sarkozy pushing the debate and implementing laws on the obscure "national identity" concept, putting it together with immigration and part of the police in the same Ministry, Berlusconi, Bossi and Fini in Italy, EPP representatives advocating for the "cristian identity" of Europe in the Parliament... etc., a long list!

Btw, didn't the UDC win the last legislatives in Switzerland?

[L. Coyote]

10. More like a major NAZI shift!

Are they also banning steeples?

[Codeine]

27. That's sort of amusing.

If banning an architectural building feature will send this group into a violent frenzy then perhaps the Swiss have a legitimate reason to be concerned with the spread of Islam within their borders.

[JonQ]

28. If you ban displays of our peaceloving religion we will kill you!

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. the vast majority of Swiss Muslims are Eastern European and are not the least bit fundamentalist

the largest number come from Bosnia, followed by Kosovo and Turkey. Very, very few embrace a radical form of Islam

[Violet_Crumble]

32. What group? Are you talking about Muslim leaders expressing criticism?

Because if not, I'm not sure what group yr referring to, and if it is about that I'm not sure how anyone could turn criticism into 'violent frenzy'...

Also, you make the ban sound very harmless. It wasn't. It was called for by an extremely RW racist party, and in the lead up to the vote, a mosque in Geneva was repeatedly vandalised. Is that what you want to support?

Another thing. How exactly does banning minarets do anything to stop the spread of Islam? It's not like Switzerland's got anything to be worried about, as it's Muslim population is small, and many of them aren't practising Muslims.